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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abduction  (Read 53746 times)
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #148 on: Feb 14th, 2014, 3:53pm »

Much appreciation is extended to Dr. Michael Heiser of the blog, UFO Religions, where the scholar recently posted, Alien Abductions Round Up. The post is highly recommended for those seeking a summary (with links) of what has recently been taking place concerning critical review of research of alleged alien abduction.

Also highly recommended is Dr. Tyler Kokjohn's latest article, I'm Sorry, Your Hypothesis Appears to be Dead. An excerpt:

"Alien abduction investigations have long been stymied by the lack of physical evidence that would definitively corroborate victim testimony. However, new genetic analysis technologies which could ferret out hybrids or pinpoint genomic adulterations in short order are now available. Representing nothing less than a potential sea change in the field, abduction researchers have either failed to adopt these methods or have not publicized their results. This static condition has persisted for years.

"Perhaps stunning genetic evidence confirming aliens have adulterated human heredity will be forthcoming soon. Dr. David Jacobs revealed in an interview with Jack Brewer (The UFO Trail http://ufotrail.blogspot.com/2012/04/bizarre-world-of-doctor-david-jacobs.html) he has collected and analyzed samples for such purposes. Given the potential extreme significance of such work and the premium placed on priority in awarding credit for new scientific discoveries, he should be anxious to publish detailed descriptions of each effort undertaken to acquire genetic samples, the specific analytic methods he employed and a complete accounting of all results and data. The information should also include full explanations of chain-of-custody procedures and sample integrity safeguards, quality assessments, all process controls and the precise standards employed for sample inclusion/rejection. Complete procedural details are critical because they will enable reviewers to determine which, if any, conclusions are rigorously grounded, must be considered tentative or challenged as invalid. If alien or hybrid DNA cannot be revealed despite repeated attempts, carefully documented and controlled experiments will enable scientists to confidently decide whether his ideas are or are not supported by genetic evidence.

"For Dr. Jacobs, time may be running short. Clearly, since one investigator has claimed she knows some human-alien hybrids personally, he is not the sole investigator with access to potentially critical corroborating genetic samples. In addition, he is not necessarily restricted to collecting the retinue following inconveniently timed alien-perpetrated sexual assaults. He has also described subjects reporting events interpreted as evidence of missing pregnancies that were both initiated and terminated by alien intervention. While human-alien hybrid progeny are said to be spirited away, these missing pregnancy victims are known to him. Because cells from the developing baby may remain alive in the mother for decades (M. Barinaga, “Cells Exchanged During Pregnancy Live On,’ Science, 21 June 2002 [296:2169-2172]), these persons represent readily localizable subjects potentially harboring the direct genetic evidence of the nefarious alien manipulation of human genetics. But again, Dr. Jacobs faces potential competition when it comes to securing the first genetic proof of alien-induced missing pregnancies. The investigator/subject reporting she was used by aliens as a ‘breeder’ (Future Theater, 18 May 2013, http://www.futuretheater.com/) would both be rather easy to find and literally full of it.

[...]

"A consistent failure to produce any corroborating genetic evidence will have implications extending far beyond that of one investigator’s ideas not withstanding rigorous scrutiny. It will constitute nothing less than an utterly damning indictment of the methods and deductions of some abduction investigators. If confirmatory genetic data cannot be produced, these investigators will be forced to explain why their combined decades of work spawned breath-taking tales of a nefarious plot against humankind perpetrated through criminal assaults and sexual molestation all fabricated during a headlong and heedless rush down a scientific blind alley.

"A vital aspect of the scientific process is the application of brutally frank quality check procedures. A long delayed reckoning in the alien abduction field is now at hand as we shall soon see how well ornate hypotheses match authentic genetic data. That will enable us to judge how effectively the special knowledge and methods certain abduction investigators employed have served to expose the truth."

Dr. Kokjohn's full article may be viewed at:

http://jayvay.wordpress.com/2014/02/11/im-sorry-your-hypothesis-appears-to-be-dead/
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #149 on: Feb 19th, 2014, 2:06pm »

Try a New Hypothesis, Sherlock

JayVay

By Tyler Kokjohn, PhD

February 18, 2014

[...]

On September 2, 2009, Major George Filer offered for sale a medical device, ‘flu lights,’ he claimed prevented or cured influenza infections in humans as well as dogs and cats (Filer’s Files #36-2009). The source of this amazing new medical technology – testimony from alien abductees explaining they had been cured of ailments after exposure to blue or green lights employed by aliens. This purported influenza cure/preventative measure, unknown to medical science, would constitute an astonishing example of an alien technology transfer to humans. And priced at only $50 this miracle cure was also a true bargain. An influenza pandemic was emerging in 2009, so the Major must have felt it necessary to get his flu lights on the market with all due haste. Now, nearly 5 years after the crisis, neither he nor anyone else has yet come forward with a report on what would be nothing less than a lifesaving medical breakthrough and paradigm shattering discovery. The Holy Grail for ufology and medicine literally in hand and no one tests it, publishes any further information about the technology or details its amazing history? Welcome to ufology.

Dr. David Jacobs and other abduction researchers have presented numerous, detailed accounts of missing pregnancies and creation of human-alien genetic hybrids. It is now clear that during gestation mother and fetus exchange cells which may persist for years or decades after birth or termination of the pregnancy (M. Barinaga, “Cells Exchanged During Pregnancy Live On,’Science, 21 June 2002 [296:2169-2172]). Powerful new genetic analysis methods now enable investigators to perform prenatal examinations of the fetal genome after a simple blood draw from the mother (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/07/120704182127.htm) In the event of an alleged missing pregnancy, it may still be possible to recognize such hybrid cells for decades. Whether or not the hybrid baby is removed by aliens and taken to an inaccessible location, these mothers are known to the investigators and represent a potential source of critical hypothesis corroborating genetic data.

Abduction investigators have revealed varying degrees of direct personal involvement in the phenomenon with one claiming she knows the identities of hybrids and another asserting on an episode of Future Theater (18 May 2013) that she was employed by aliens as a “breeder.” Robert Sheaffer reported from the 2014 UFO Congress that one featured speaker revealed she has seven alien grandchildren (http://badufos.blogspot.com/2014_02_01_archive.html). These situations have afforded these investigators the unique opportunity to acquire and test samples at their leisure. A human-alien genetic hybrid might be detected with the simplest of genetic tests requiring only that the subject spit into a tube and the investigator mail it off to a commercial facility to await the report. Possibly the easiest opportunity in all history to collect what could be the most scientifically significant samples of the century and not one of them seems to have bothered.

It is important to recognize that these are not fleeting situations transpiring by dark of night at unpredictable times. These sources of critical evidence are readily and conveniently available to the investigators. However, despite the ease of collection, the most direct pathways to uncover substantive proof of nefarious alien intervention on our planet and provide concrete evidence strongly supporting the ETH have been ignored and left to lie fallow.

The best way to investigate any hypothesis is to actually investigate it. In contrast, ETH proponents devise arguments to disguise and rationalize failure. Reduced to defending a hypothesis because of the consistent inability to marshal convincing supporting evidence, it is astonishing they have so long, so diligently and uniformly refused to explore the obvious opportunities available to reach what should be their supreme goal. Worse, the experts or opinion leaders never demand investigators get this job done or even note these glaring discrepancies.

It is time to break the futile cycle of ufology. Try a new hypothesis, Sherlock. You certainly haven’t investigated the one you like.

Full article:

http://jayvay.wordpress.com/2014/02/18/try-a-new-hypothesis-sherlock/
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #150 on: Feb 19th, 2014, 2:52pm »

JJ,

"DITTO"

SHALOM...Z
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #151 on: Feb 20th, 2014, 7:20pm »

on Feb 20th, 2014, 09:32am, freyasday wrote:
jjflash, before offering any feedback to this article you linked I should probably ask if you are "JayVay", and if so are you in complete agreement with the guest blogger "Tyler Kokjohn, PhD"?


JayVay is a blog maintained by Jeremy Vaeni, an author, relatively well known podcast personality within the UFO community and self-described experiencer of high strangeness. Vaeni is largely credited with initially breaking the Emma Woods story, along with former Paratopia co-host Jeff Ritzmann, who now hosts Paranormal Waypoint.

I am Jack Brewer. I write The UFO Trail and Orlando Paranormal Examiner.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #152 on: Feb 20th, 2014, 9:51pm »

Dr. Kokjohn's latest article, Try a New Hypothesis, Sherlock, looks pretty clear to me. He presented some specific points for consideration, cited and referenced related circumstances, and summed up the relevance. Specifically:

- In 2009 Major George Filer offered for sale "flu lights" of which he claimed the extraordinary healing capacities and technology were obtained from alleged alien abductees via aliens. However, Filer has to date offered no specific reports or related documentation of the effects of those lights and what would be absolutely extraordinary within the medical industry.

- Dr. David Jacobs and other supposed researchers have presented numerous, detailed accounts of alleged missing fetuses/induced pregnancies and hybrid circumstances. Many of these individuals such as Jacobs purport to be conducting scientific research.

- One such alleged abductee claimed on Future Theater that she was used by aliens as a "breeder".

- Another alleged abductee recently claimed at the International UFO Congress that she has grandmothered several aliens.

- Simple and cost-effective tests are available in which such claimed circumstances might be validated.

- Not only are such tests not employed - which could potentially provide the proof the UFO community has long claimed it desired - but the community and its leaders largely fail to discuss the fact that such researchers do not so much as bother to actually test their hypotheses and claims.

The article looks pretty clear and direct to me about those specific circumstances.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #153 on: Feb 20th, 2014, 10:36pm »

Quote:
- Not only are such tests not employed - which could potentially provide the proof the UFO community has long claimed it desired - but the community and its leaders largely fail to discuss the fact that such researchers do not so much as bother to actually test their hypotheses and claims.


Gee....what a surprise.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #154 on: Feb 21st, 2014, 10:21pm »

Carol Rainey has revised a previously released video. The new vid, 1996 Symbols Revealed as Evidence of Alien Abduction rev 022014, and its description:



"A newly revised excerpt from director Carol Rainey's documentary 'Priests of High Strangeness: Co-Creation of the Alien Abduction Phenomenon.' On 2/21/14. This segment shows Budd Hopkins revealing strikingly similar symbols that numerous abductees have reported seeing aboard alien spacecraft. Rainey looks at whether faulty research methods may have invalidated the use of these abductee drawings as evidence for the phenomenon. Music by Dano at http://danosongs.com. "

Find out who is trying to keep you from learning about such circumstances, as well as how they are going about it, in Jeremy Vaeni's latest blog post, Sean Meers, Internet Censorship, and YOU.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #155 on: Feb 25th, 2014, 6:27pm »

Carol Rainey: Open Letter to the UFO Community

The UFO Trail

February 24, 2014

The following open letter was provided Sunday to The UFO Trail by Carol Rainey. Learn more about Ms. Rainey and her work by visiting her website, carolrainey.com, viewing her YouTube channel and watching her videos posted in the sidebar to the right [see website for links and videos].

Open Letter to the UFO Community

Over the past several years, I've posted to my YouTube channel (Carol Rainey) a dozen film excerpts on the subject of UFO abduction research. They feature the work of my then husband, Budd Hopkins, and his book, "Witnessed," about the Linda Cortile abduction case. People interested in this field might find something of worth in the comments posted recently by one of my critics, followed by my response to him.

[**Note: If I didn't think the UFO phenomenon was a real and significant human mystery, I assure you that I would never have "wasted" the past twenty years and my personal resources on caring about this research.]

I was particularly struck by the commentator's religious attitude toward the researcher and the material. It led me to wonder, not for the first time, how many researchers and observers in this field secretly harbor an attitude and a mindset that utterly mitigate against an ability to uncover what lies behind the UFO phenomenon.

Here is the essence of his remarks:

"...Do you consider yourself more of an expert on the subject of alien abduction than Bud Hopkins was? You better be because you are going after a saint, and a lot of people will feel they have good reason to dismiss what you say out of hand."

Full quote below and my second response to the person:

tommytomted44 to Carol Rainey 20 hours ago

Thank you for your civil reply. It just strikes me as strange. You were married to Bud Hopkins.
You wrote books together, and now you are trying to take his work apart.

I understand this is new material, but this is not the first video you have made with this theme. I believe I have seen them all. To me there is just something very wrong with attacking the work of a dead man who is not here to speak for himself.

Without Bud Hopkins, David Jacobs and John Mack would never have been exposed to the subject of alien abduction. Bud carried the water on the subject for years with no help at all.

It looks to me as if you have some problems with his methods. It also looks to me like you are quite willing to toss the baby out with the bathwater. That really bothers me. It is hard enough to get people to take this subject seriously.

So you appear willing to throw out all Buds work. Do you actually disagree with his take on every case he did? Is there nothing of value to be saved here? Nowhere we can say that Bud was doing good work?

Bud Hopkins and Karla Turner are the closest people we have to saints in the area of alien abduction. So you don't agree with some of his methods. Are you really willing to tear it all down over that?

I'm not an expert on the history of the two of you together but didn't he do some of this work before you met and married him? And didn't you write a book or two together? I believe I've read those books and I don't remember you saying anything like this then.

Why now? Were you just blind to these things when you were with Bud? When you made that video did he know what you were intending to do with it? If not then you were just setting him up a little bit there don't you think?

And lastly, do you consider yourself more of an expert on the subject of alien abduction than Bud Hopkins was? You better be because you are going after a saint, and a lot of people will feel they have good reason to dismiss what you say out of hand.

I really don't like what you are doing. I could hear you in the video. It sure sounded to me like his partner in his work was setting him up, and he didn't even know it. Now that is just disgusting.

With Bud dead, and no one to speak for him, this has the look and feel of a hatchet job.


cr response 2/23/14

I said all of these things, with documentation, _before_ Budd died, so that charge has little power. He and his devout supporters had their say, just as you're still having yours.

You have some valid points, ones that I'll address in a longer form work - both in a documentary and in a book. Let me briefly say that your perspective and terminology suggest that you're in a religious frame of mind - one that won't help you be objective about good research methodology that will actually produce "knowledge."

If you regard ANYONE in this field as "a saint," I think you've lost that ability. Budd (note the 2 D's) made significant contributions in offering support to people who felt traumatized and in making the media and popular culture aware of anomalous experiences related to UFOs. I am not suggesting otherwise. I was a participant in some cases with him that I think are quite credible and I will be showing those, too. But I AM strongly opposed to Budd's manipulation of facts and his telling the world that certain individuals's UFO reports were factual and credible when they were neither.

Right now, I'm more interested in trying to ensure that there be no more Emma Woods out there - vulnerable people preyed upon by a "researcher" who has zero qualifications in psychology, hypnosis, medicine, cultural contagion, etc., and zero ability to handle the issues that arise. And now I'm speaking about someone who's quite alive.

Yes, I was Budd's partner and you can hear off-camera questions which indicate that I was always asking the hard questions. I supported what he was doing for many years, until the facts in front of me said that this was a deceptive and dangerous business. That's when my opinion changed and that's when I stopped being part of that community. The mark of a good investigator, scientists will tell you, is that he/she has the ability to change perceptions once the facts have changed or been more clearly perceived.

More at site:

http://ufotrail.blogspot.com/2014/02/carol-rainey-open-letter-to-ufo.html
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #156 on: Feb 28th, 2014, 5:14pm »

I posted a link to Carol Rainey: Open Letter to the UFO Community at UFO Collective. A number of responses and observations were made. Among them was the following posted by Sue Johnson at my blog, The UFO Trail, and which I found particularly cogent and relevant:

"I've been following the Woods and Rainey issues with a great deal of interest since I became a voyeur of ufology a couple of years ago. The first thing I noticed about these two topics was that there were people actively trying to silence any discussion of or by Woods or Rainey. This, in a field where people otherwise seemed to be willing to discuss practically anything ad nauseum!

"The manner in which Woods and Rainey were silenced and discredited was also of interest. Rainy was billed at A Bad Wife (horrors!), and I actually read a posting where someone called Woods a hysteric. It’s not easy to call a woman a hysteric and not get laughed out of the room nowadays; has ufology finally invented the time machine?

"However, I would argue that the Woods and Rainey issues are central to ufology today and merit attention. First, they are women in a field in which almost all those with a public voice, and therefore defining the narrative of the field, are men. As such, their presence and work is of intrinsic interest.

"Second, they are participating in the public discourse of ufology as agents or actors rather in the role of victim or experiencer. They are thus in direct violation of the roles set for women (subordinate or victim) by the master narrative of gender relations set in the 1950s – ufology’s heyday. Although they stand on the shoulders of other women in the field, their work is still an interesting and important development in ufology.

"Third, they have presented clear, cogent, evidence-based logical arguments which are being silenced or ignored for reasons that have nothing to do with their actual content. In addition to the 1950s-era Bad Girl argument against paying attention to what Rainey and Woods have to bring to the table, I've also heard people say it’s simply not that interesting or important. To my mind, that’s a much more disturbing dismissal of their voices. Because:

"Fourth, the issues raised by Woods and Rainey illustrate instances in which the usual goings-on in ufology cross the line from being mostly harmless to being very probably dangerous and almost certainly unethical. This is the point at which the outside world starts to sit up and take notice. Ufology seems to be lagging a decade or two behind the outside world with respect to lessons learned from things like the satanic ritual abuse panic and iatrogenic multiple personality disorder.

"Over on the UFO Collective listserv I see this topic being debated in terms of validity of the ETH, the reality of abduction experiences, and the validity of regression hypnosis for retrieving memory. To me, these are side issues, or maybe even dead issues. The central issue is, why can’t ufology address the content of the critiques posed by Woods and Rainey? It may be that ufology, as it is constituted today, is not capable of answering that question."
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #157 on: Feb 28th, 2014, 5:28pm »

I read Carol Rainey's critique of Hopkins and Jacobs when it first came out and imo it speaks for itself, but anyone who has ever taken those two 'researchers' seriously over the years regarding their wild eyed ufo theories probably isn't using critical thinking to begin with and is probably in the 'spacemen are here and probing people' camp anyway- no matter what anyone else says.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #158 on: Mar 3rd, 2014, 11:37am »

Recently posted at UFO Collective and I would like to share here as well:

I would like to present a few specific points for readers to consider, please. To begin, however, I would like to emphasize that critical review of the work of such individuals as Hopkins and Jacobs is _not_ synonymous with negating all reported high strangeness. Each case and set of circumstances require careful investigation and fact-checking. If we are all in agreement that we prefer truth and accuracy to lip service and sensationalism, then we should unanimously agree that only the highest standards of research protocol should be accepted in forming our beliefs and opinions.

We therefore should not disproportionately interest ourselves in the extents we may or may not personally like any given individual as compared to the quality of their work. Specifically, the information documented and presented by Woods and Rainey is of interest to me entirely in proportion to its merit and importance, and completely independently of whether any of you were personal friends with Hopkins and similar such irrelevant factors.

In considering the quality of research provided by Budd Hopkins, please allow me to present for consideration the following video:

http://tinyurl.com/oeg4vt6

In the video, Hopkins asserted that when alleged abductees drew symbols that they stated they saw while aboard perceived alien craft, they always drew the same kinds of symbols. However, Rainey demonstrated that was entirely and conclusively false. Moreover, when specifically asked further about the circumstances, Hopkins clearly stated he was trying to "stack the deck."

I present for consideration that while such circumstances do not necessarily negate all of the man's work - and certainly do not negate all reported phenomena - we should most certainly subject his extraordinary claims to thorough review. This only seems reasonable to me. More circumstances of interest can of course be found in Rainey's additional work.

Please allow me to present for review a piece I recently published, 'The Woods/Jacobs Tapes and the 'Oral History' Falsehood':

http://tinyurl.com/l9lsnrr

The article contains links to such circumstances as Dr. David Jacobs claiming himself to be "a strong advocate of strict scientific and ethical research methodology." However, the piece also contains documented proof that Jacobs conducted such questionable activities as long-distance regressive hypnosis with a subject located on another continent and entirely alone without support. The tapes demonstrate that Jacobs admittedly led the hypnotized research subject, encouraged her to wear a chastity belt and requested she send him her underpants.

To be clear, my criticism of such circumstances in this specific context is due to their impossibility of producing quality results, and are not scientific procedures by any stretch of the definition or imagination. It therefore seems more than reasonable to me to strongly question Jacobs' assertions of ET abductions and covert breeding programs when such extreme and fantastic conclusions are derived from such questionable research methodology.

Further circumstances of interest presented in the article include Jacobs' claims that on numerous occasions he collected physical samples for testing from research subjects. The claim is in direct contradiction to statements previously released by his employer at the time, Temple University, which indicated the historian only collected oral histories during his research. Moreover, Jacobs indicated that the tested samples all failed to provide support for his hypotheses, yet he continued to promote his assumptions and neglected to make the tests available for public review. See the article for links and documentation.

Lastly, please allow me to present the work of Dr. Tyler Kokjohn. The microbiologist has informed us on multiple occasions that practical, affordable means are now available that would allow Jacobs and those believing themselves to personally be involved in ET-human hybrid circumstances to actually test their suppositions and hypotheses. Specifically, we need not argue in endless circles and perpetually philosophize because we could _test_ the accuracy of claims related to such circumstances as missing pregnancies - decades after the alleged fact. It would seem quite reasonable to me that we would hold researchers accountable for conducting tests that would potentially validate their claims, particularly when such researchers are trying to lead us to believe they are committed to scientific investigation.

See some of Dr. Kokjohn's related written work:

http://tinyurl.com/kkgxqrv

...or if you prefer video:

http://tinyurl.com/nle2qoe

In closing, please allow me to once again emphasize that holding researchers accountable for their unsupported claims and subjecting their work to critical review does not negate unexplained phenomena. It is the path to truth, whatever the truth may ultimately prove to be.

Regards,

Jack Brewer
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #159 on: Mar 4th, 2014, 05:55am »

on Feb 19th, 2014, 2:06pm, jjflash wrote:
By Tyler Kokjohn, PhD

Dr. David Jacobs and other abduction researchers have presented numerous, detailed accounts of missing pregnancies and creation of human-alien genetic hybrids. It is now clear that during gestation mother and fetus exchange cells which may persist for years or decades after birth or termination of the pregnancy (M. Barinaga, “Cells Exchanged During Pregnancy Live On,’Science, 21 June 2002 [296:2169-2172]). Powerful new genetic analysis methods now enable investigators to perform prenatal examinations of the fetal genome after a simple blood draw from the mother (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/07/120704182127.htm) In the event of an alleged missing pregnancy, it may still be possible to recognize such hybrid cells for decades. Whether or not the hybrid baby is removed by aliens and taken to an inaccessible location, these mothers are known to the investigators and represent a potential source of critical hypothesis corroborating genetic data.

Abduction investigators have revealed varying degrees of direct personal involvement in the phenomenon with one claiming she knows the identities of hybrids and another asserting on an episode of Future Theater (18 May 2013) that she was employed by aliens as a “breeder.” Robert Sheaffer reported from the 2014 UFO Congress that one featured speaker revealed she has seven alien grandchildren (http://badufos.blogspot.com/2014_02_01_archive.html). These situations have afforded these investigators the unique opportunity to acquire and test samples at their leisure. A human-alien genetic hybrid might be detected with the simplest of genetic tests requiring only that the subject spit into a tube and the investigator mail it off to a commercial facility to await the report. Possibly the easiest opportunity in all history to collect what could be the most scientifically significant samples of the century and not one of them seems to have bothered.

It is important to recognize that these are not fleeting situations transpiring by dark of night at unpredictable times. These sources of critical evidence are readily and conveniently available to the investigators. However, despite the ease of collection, the most direct pathways to uncover substantive proof of nefarious alien intervention on our planet and provide concrete evidence strongly supporting the ETH have been ignored and left to lie fallow.


Hi Jjflash, I stopped actively engaging in your excellent thread after our exchange in Replies # 34 - 37. Exchange dealt mainly with your claims concerning Prof Tyler Kokjohn, who proposed state-of-the-art DNA testing may be used on (purported) mothers of alien hybrids to ascertain presence/absence of ET-tampered fetal cells remaining in a female abductee/'breeder's reproductive system. If you allow me to refresh our memory, I posed critical problems targeting Kokjohn's method:

on Jun 1st, 2013, 5:08pm, purr wrote:
Tyler Kokjohn's proposed DNA testing for alien abductees does not yet work, simply because it has ONLY human, and earthly DNA information to compare against. Can't establish alien DNA present, alien tampering with genes, or zero alien interference without base lines for COMPARISON of FACTUAL markers/patterns belonging to Visitors. At best the outcome would be academically formulated guesses.


The gist of your reply then was a sense of confidence in professor Kokjohn's academic credentials, plus that you felt no responsibility for (explaining) errors made by Dr. Jacob's or various supporting 'hybrid-theory' UFOlogists. Uh.. you response was imho unresponsive, at least to my skeptical questioning of Kokjohn's ET detection method. But then you slightly changed avenues, expanding in various criticisms of other hybrid/fringe proponents, that's fine with me, and sofar an interesting read.

Now Kokjohn popped up again, still as viable scientific methodology to detect a hybrid's lingering geneprints in abductees' wombs. Still you present it as a failing by the Abduction/Hybrid UFOlogists not to have provided samples to Tyler Kokjohn (or fellow geneticists).

Would you now be willing to answer to my questioning of his genetic method? The good prof has (based on his own articles, which I read!) no baseline for ET DNA, no genetic dataset for comparison, delineating either PRESENCE or ABSENCE of extraterrestrial traces. (All geneticists have is the human genome sequence, and that of many other earthly lifeforms.)

Wouldn't you agree, lacking alien DNA, that genetic testing of hybrid-moms cannot yield definitive proof of the real/imaginary nature of their abduction memories?

(And then: why keep blaming Dr. Jacobs and company for not cooperating with an as yet unfinished medical technology?)

CRITICALLY ANALYSE THIS, if you please...

smiley

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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #160 on: Mar 4th, 2014, 10:51am »

Quote:
Purr said: Would you now be willing to answer to my questioning of his genetic method? The good prof has (based on his own articles, which I read!) no baseline for ET DNA, no genetic dataset for comparison, delineating either PRESENCE or ABSENCE of extraterrestrial traces. (All geneticists have is the human genome sequence, and that of many other earthly lifeforms.)

Wouldn't you agree, lacking alien DNA, that genetic testing of hybrid-moms cannot yield definitive proof of the real/imaginary nature of their abduction memories?

(And then: why keep blaming Dr. Jacobs and company for not cooperating with an as yet unfinished medical technology?)

CRITICALLY ANALYSE THIS, if you please...


I'm no expert in dna sequencing but I would think that any tampering/insertions of 'alien' dna into human dna by 'aliens' would show markers or unusual dna sequences in so-called hybrids that would raise a red flag. Has this been done in any of the claimed hybrids? If not, why not?

As to the other aspects regarding Jacobs and Hopkins it's clear from many who have looked into their methods that there were serious issues on how they did their research and regression hypnosis.
Dr Vallee and others have questioned this going back many years now before Rainey published her findings. This does not automatically mean Jacobs and Hopkins had an agenda per se but that at the very least they didn't do it in any scientific manner with proper controls etc. Neither man was a scientist in any manner and not trained in any of the methods needed to do a clean study of 'alien abduction'.
They were essentially self taught and both believers on top of that. Not the most judicious way to undertake such an involved look into which is by all accounts a very complex phenomenon.
After years of their regression work ,etc we know no more than we did before their work in that some people claim to have been 'abducted' and had encounters with 'aliens'. Something we already knew before they got involved.

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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #161 on: Mar 4th, 2014, 11:37am »

on Mar 4th, 2014, 10:51am, drwu23 wrote:
I'm no expert in dna sequencing but I would think that any tampering/insertions of 'alien' dna into human dna by 'aliens' would show markers or unusual dna sequences in so-called hybrids that would raise a red flag. Has this been done in any of the claimed hybrids? If not, why not?

As to the other aspects regarding Jacobs and Hopkins it's clear from many who have looked into their methods that there were serious issues on how they did their research and regression hypnosis.
Dr Vallee and others have questioned this going back many years now before Rainey published her findings. This does not automatically mean Jacobs and Hopkins had an agenda per se but that at the very least they didn't do it in any scientific manner with proper controls etc. Neither man was a scientist in any manner and not trained in any of the methods needed to do a clean study of 'alien abduction'.
They were essentially self taught and both believers on top of that. Not the most judicious way to undertake such an involved look into which is by all accounts a very complex phenomenon.
After years of their regression work ,etc we know no more than we did before their work in that some people claim to have been 'abducted' and had encounters with 'aliens'. Something we already knew before they got involved.



Right.

Purr, I appreciate your inquisitiveness. I also appreciate your willingness to try to pose the difficult questions. Both are qualities I admire.

That stated, if you sincerely do not understand the problems in logic with suggesting/implying we not test self-proclaimed hybrids, etc., because we may not be able to accurately read the test results, I do not have any further ways of trying to explain it at this particular point in time. It is the responsibility of the researcher making the claim to test and validate the hypothesis. Jacobs, Lamb and Cannon, for examples, are making no efforts to actually do so and in spite of the apparent easy access to alleged hybrids.

Another point I find of interest is that Jacobs admitted to me during the 2012 interview in the Ozarks that he had indeed collected physical samples for DNA testing over the years. I find this relevant for a few reasons, purr, including his statements directly contradicted those released by his employer at the time, Temple University, which, when addressing the Woods fiasco, stated that Jacobs only collected oral histories. It is also relevant because he apparently made attempts to validate his hypotheses yet, in his own words, could not do so. He then and continues to fail to make the circumstances of the tests and their results available for public review, opting instead to continue promoting his unsupported suppositions.

Lastly, purr, I find such circumstances relevant because they are simply not scientific protocol, as Jacobs claims - falsely - to respect and follow. That is, as Sharon Hill calls it, sham inquiry: nonscientific activities misrepresented as science.

I interpret Dr. Kokjohn to be suggesting - correctly - that a researcher should attempt to validate their hypotheses. Such researchers should compose formal papers, submit their work for critical review and so on - as the scientific process dictates. To do otherwise could - and should - call their activities into question when presented as scientific research.

I encourage your curiosity and your willingness to question, purr. If such information as provided is not enough for you to adequately understand the inherent challenges to claiming and failing to produce evidence (or even conduct tests) of alleged hybrid circumstances, perhaps other sources would be more helpful to you.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #162 on: Mar 5th, 2014, 02:48am »

on Mar 4th, 2014, 10:51am, drwu23 wrote:
I'm no expert in dna sequencing but I would think that any tampering/insertions of 'alien' dna into human dna by 'aliens' would show markers or unusual dna sequences in so-called hybrids that would raise a red flag. Has this been done in any of the claimed hybrids? If not, why not?

As to the other aspects regarding Jacobs and Hopkins it's clear from many who have looked into their methods that there were serious issues on how they did their research and regression hypnosis.
Dr Vallee and others have questioned this going back many years now before Rainey published her findings. This does not automatically mean Jacobs and Hopkins had an agenda per se but that at the very least they didn't do it in any scientific manner with proper controls etc. Neither man was a scientist in any manner and not trained in any of the methods needed to do a clean study of 'alien abduction'.
They were essentially self taught and both believers on top of that. Not the most judicious way to undertake such an involved look into which is by all accounts a very complex phenomenon.
After years of their regression work ,etc we know no more than we did before their work in that some people claim to have been 'abducted' and had encounters with 'aliens'. Something we already knew before they got involved.



Hi Wu, indeed as you say, a test capable of showing something "unusual" indicates sumtin (or other) may have happened, but falls short of scientific proof aliens were here (or not). So imo one valid reason why abducted 'hybrid' mothers haven't been participating en masse in this type of DNA test is simply because it can yield only one more inconclusive (best guess-based) outcome. Be it academia approved...

smiley

As to Jjflash's critical questioning of Jacobs, I already agreed. I'm a little more positive about Budd Hopkins, think he meant well, however with most of his evidence witness driven, his work too is open to careful scrutiny.


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