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skizicks
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xx Re: Alien Abduction
« Reply #465 on: Mar 8th, 2011, 9:00pm »

The UFO community threw away any shred of a chance they had for credibility long, long, ago.
When they couldn't find a believable explaination for the physical UFO they adopted the non-physical. When they couldn't explaing interstellar travel they adopted inter dimensional or inter universal travel. When they couldn't explain why any advanced race would need to spend so much time hanging out with the average nobody they adopted the Space Brothers and the hope for mankind approach.
We answer challenges by grasping at any straw that floats by.
I am 100% sure that every contactee and abductee in every corner of the world is 100% sure their experience was/is real.
I am also sure that 99.9% are wrong.
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xx Re: Alien Abduction
« Reply #466 on: Mar 9th, 2011, 12:28am »

99.9%? Make that 99% and it's probably accurate. As far as the other things you listed goes, you're talking about a different 99% in my opinion. The attention seekers. A group the UFO community would be better off without anyway. This is where the problem with credibility lies, in people desperately in need of attention, probably since childhood thanks to lackluster parents. Haven't you ever wondered why every psychological problem on the books stems from childhood problems? It's not a mystery, because that problem is usually a pair of (often drunken) parents who paid them zero attention.

Attention is unbelievably important to a young child. So important that the average child who doesn't get it will spend a lifetime trying to replace something, but they haven't a clue as to what. I was fortunate enough to have two parents dedicated enough to their children to make certain we never lacked for such things. And my father had an immense amount of problems which stemmed from his role in WWII, so today's standard excuses don't work. Thanks to those two loving parents who always put their children first, without spoiling them no less, I know that childhood is supposed to be this magical time in one's life. An irreplaceable experience which allows us to grow into adults who have no inherent need for nurturing that cannot be replaced.

This is where you will find the credibility problem for any cause. There is a group who is constantly trying to hitch a ride on anything that might allow them a brief moment as the center of attention, albeit with some pretty absurd reasoning behind it. Is this what you refer to? Because it really isn't their fault. Nor will it be their children's fault, but it is a given that their children will suffer from this affliction as well, simply because they will steal that attention from their children. And so on, right down the line. Somewhere back in their lineage you will find parents who initiated this behavior, and there you can lay the blame. IF blame needs placed of course. In my experience I have yet to see one single case where an issue was resolved by assignment of blame. How about yourself? But don't mind me, I just have an inherent need not to judge, that's all. It's what I was taught. The ironic part of that is by teaching me not to judge, my parents gave me great vision and ability in the arena one would call making judgments about a wide variety of matters. And has led to a lifelong struggle to diligently follow the proper course. But that's all right. Challenges are how we learn to grow.

All of that was just a long winded way to say that we can't really judge people for what they say and do. I was ever so fortunate. I had two fantastic parents. They had their problems and who doesn't? But they always made certain their children's problems were resolved, even if theirs were not. But how many people can make this claim? Not many that I know of in today's generations. I'm not even certain that, if we had children, they would be able to make this claim. But I pray they would. When you stop to consider all of this, doesn't it seem to you that people manage to cope quite well considering?

I've always thought that if ET is sitting back analyzing us, they must be thinking man, what a screwed up, disfunctional species. And I won't even address what God must think. We're a species who has been given every possible advantage towards making good. And yet we struggle. Man do we struggle.

Take care
Tim
« Last Edit: Mar 9th, 2011, 12:30am by icepick » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Alien Abduction
« Reply #467 on: Mar 9th, 2011, 02:05am »

"..UFO community threw away.."

hmm, not sure that is accurate decsription.

might of had a couple of curve balls added to our plate.


if only we hadn't.




we COULD of ALL BEEN been given the answer in june, july, 1947.

the question SHOULD of been, and beyond reasonable doubt was, answered in
april 27, 1949.

"Possibilities that the saucers are foreign aircraft have also been considered. .
. . But observations based on nuclear power plant research in this country label as 'highly improbable' the
existence on Earth of engines small enough to have powered the saucers.

"Intelligent life on Mars . . . is not impossible but is completely unproven.
The possibility of intelligent life on the Planet Venus is not considered
completely unreasonable by astronomers.

"Such a civilization might observe that on Earth we now have atomic bombs and are fast developing rockets.
In view of the past history of mankind, they should be.


"The saucers are not jokes. ."[1]


..
but if wasn't answered. (truthfully/honestly, that is.)

cus On December 27, 1949,
the Air Force (lied*, explained away and) denied the existence of flying saucers.


(it was a rushed release of project saucers 'findings'. HA!
if you read their report, it is a joke; and did not AT ALL identify the reported objects in MANY cases, yet
went on to hope no-one noticed.. and PRONOUNCED with authority that
THE BULK were 'identified', and that there was essentially "..NOTHING to see here people, now please move along". )



alas, so begun the ridicule heaped upon hundreds of highly regarded people,
military, police, politicians and public personnel;
not too mention the public at large.

eventually thousands; (of whom i am one.)

because they simply are wrong. and "..could not of seen it", THEY said.
ANYTHING but a 'metal' CRAFT.


nevermind so many reported just EXACTLY that.
so many.



December 27, 1949;
sad day.



another, On February 22, 1950, the Air Force again felt it was necessary to deny the existence of flying saucers.


funnily enough, On this same date, two saucers reported above Key West Naval Air Station
and were tracked by radar;
they were described as maneuvering at high speed fifty miles above the earth.
The Air Force refused to comment on that.

then On March 9, 1950, a large metallic disk was pursued by F-51 and jet fighters
and observed by scores of Air Force officers at Wright Field,



regardless,

again,
in 1951,
the Air Force again denied the existence of flying saucers.


and in 1952,
the Air Force again FUCKING denied the existence of flying saucers.

1953, the Air Force again denied the existence of flying saucers.

1954, the Air Force again denied the existence of flying saucers.

1955, the Air Force again denied the existence of flying saucers.

1956, the Air Force again denied the existence of flying saucers.

1957, the Air Force again denied the existence of flying saucers.




you see the pattern here.



..1958, the Air Force again denied the existence of flying saucers.

1959, the Air Force again denied the existence of flying saucers.

1960, the Air Force again denied the existence of flying saucers.

1961, the Air Force again denied the existence of flying saucers.

1962, the Air Force again denied the existence of flying saucers.

1963, the Air Force again denied the existence of flying saucers.

1964, the Air Force again denied the existence of flying saucers.


1965, the Air Force again denied the existence of flying saucers.

essentially, every year,
the air force FELT it necessary to deny the apparent existence of physical, controlled, highly-advanced
odd-looking aircraft flying about our atmosphere, often;
and that they don't let us catch or contact them.



agian, 1966, the Air Force again denied the existence of flying saucers.

and tried to be authritive, too.
so as to bring the subject to an end*;

using one of the more cooked books the earth has ever seen.
(*or attempting to end, but far from it)



while, in OZ,
our Air Force again denied/monitoed/investigated the existence of flying saucers, every year, up till about '84ish?


..when they begun
the routine referral of all witnesses/abductees/your auntie
to "..ufo support groups."




yup.
(it's laughable, i know)






anyways, where was i..

ski, so, we're all delusional or mistaken?
and we did the "throwin away", aye.

hmmm. what the heck have they been doin all this time..if they haven't been abductin?

must be bored yet??



and am glad for you that you're assured of , for instance, the FACT that
my doozy of a wander across my paddock when a little boy, that i'm missing awareness of,
was just, ..well, not AT ALL related to the
apparently physical metal craft i had only just previously found myself staring at,
and that i actually went for the 50meter "wander 'n cry"
of my own, albeit involuntary, volition..

cuz, i so far aren't.

hypnosis or no hypnosis,
i've always reckoned they got* me.

*got means abducted i guess.


couldn't really tell you who THEY are are though.

day i tried to be hypnotized i almost hyperventilated and had to stop the session,
then, got nuffin' when eventually resumed.

so, from me, it's GOOD LUCK to whoever can get ANY MORE information via hypnotherapy;
and personally,
i well suspect it's benefits have far outweighed any drawbacks.

regardless, cheers all



1. Project "Saucer" Preliminary Study of Flying Saucers.

2. Air Force Press Release 629-49.

3.April 22 report, Project "Saucer"

4. "A Digest of Preliminary Studies by the Air Materiel Command, Wright Field, Dayton, Ohio, on 'Flying Saucers.'"






« Last Edit: Mar 9th, 2011, 08:16am by grassyknoll » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Alien Abduction
« Reply #468 on: Mar 9th, 2011, 1:20pm »

on Mar 8th, 2011, 5:55pm, LoneGunMan wrote:
Dr,
Just what kind of a comment should someone make if they believe, like FlyingFisherman, that they have been abducted? This is not something that should be held in ones own conscience if they believe that is has happened to them don't you think? How should someone tell their story?

Lone


I was a bit harsh in that comment but I do think that those who have had experiences (as well as those who are convinced it's ET) should be a bit more cautious in how they state their beliefs as fact.
It would be far better to say that it seems to me that these entities might be 'space aliens' but I can't say for certain but I do believe my experience was real.

It only polarizes the ufo community when some make these statements as if they are hard fact and those outside in the general public then think everyone in the ufo community are nutters.
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xx Re: Alien Abduction
« Reply #469 on: Mar 9th, 2011, 1:25pm »

on Mar 8th, 2011, 9:00pm, skizicks wrote:
The UFO community threw away any shred of a chance they had for credibility long, long, ago.
When they couldn't find a believable explaination for the physical UFO they adopted the non-physical. When they couldn't explaing interstellar travel they adopted inter dimensional or inter universal travel. When they couldn't explain why any advanced race would need to spend so much time hanging out with the average nobody they adopted the Space Brothers and the hope for mankind approach.
We answer challenges by grasping at any straw that floats by.
I am 100% sure that every contactee and abductee in every corner of the world is 100% sure their experience was/is real.
I am also sure that 99.9% are wrong.



Ditto.....
but I do think there is signal in all the noise. The question is what is creating the signal.
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xx Re: Alien Abduction
« Reply #470 on: Mar 9th, 2011, 4:43pm »

Grassyknoll;

Placement of blame isn't going to do any good here. Fault for this issue is spread across the entire human race. Don't you think it's time to quit saying "we did this because ............ "? Sounds a bit childish and silly in my opinion.
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xx Re: Alien Abduction
« Reply #471 on: Mar 9th, 2011, 5:21pm »

Telling a witness how they should speak about their experiences is interfering with the witness.

Consider this: I was abducted from early childhood but did not figure it out until retirement. At that time I was able to recall experiences that previously did not make sense but then did that went back to four years old. I never had any desire to be abducted nor have alien contact with any creatures like the grays. I was very careful to find the truth during this investigation and was very careful to pick an experienced hypnotherapist who avoided any improper suggestions. Until I knew for sure I kept up the hope that I would find out something else other than alien abduction. Do I fit the stereo types that are presented here?

Some of the characterizations of the UFO community ignore the fact that the UFO community is a diverse group. They do not all agree with one another and have different approaches. In my opinion some are better than others.

The only real source of information concerning alien contact of an involuntary or voluntary nature are abductees and contactees. Those who cannot accept the reality of this phenomenon must discredit these witnesses. As far as explaining alien abduction is concerned I have a few theories but simply know that it does happen and to many people.
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xx Re: Alien Abduction
« Reply #472 on: Mar 9th, 2011, 6:09pm »

Assignment of blaim is just another way to say assignment of responsibility.
To accept responsibility for ones actions is a strong indication of maturity. I for one am sick and tired of all the excuses we seem to accept for behaviour these days. Don't blaim the ax killer, his grandmother used to call the postman dirty names. What drivel.
Just why do we want to avoid holding people responsible for their actions? What does that accomplish?
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xx Re: Alien Abduction
« Reply #473 on: Mar 9th, 2011, 6:44pm »

on Mar 8th, 2011, 9:00pm, skizicks wrote:
The UFO community threw away any shred of a chance they had for credibility long, long, ago.
When they couldn't find a believable explaination for the physical UFO they adopted the non-physical. When they couldn't explaing interstellar travel they adopted inter dimensional or inter universal travel. When they couldn't explain why any advanced race would need to spend so much time hanging out with the average nobody they adopted the Space Brothers and the hope for mankind approach.
We answer challenges by grasping at any straw that floats by.
I am 100% sure that every contactee and abductee in every corner of the world is 100% sure their experience was/is real.
I am also sure that 99.9% are wrong.


I'm thinking along drwu23's lines, skizicks. And just following your count (I'm not too good at arithmatic!) I'd say you've just ended up with about 6000 real abductees, reporting honestly and fairly accurately.

At that point you've FOCUSED the abduction problem, but you're still stuck with the conundrum of harmonising this bizarre experience with serious science. Only if the number is 0 we can go back to the comfortable approach of SETI, Carl Sagan, and stargazing at bbbillions and bbillions of distant stars.



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xx Re: Alien Abduction
« Reply #474 on: Mar 9th, 2011, 7:23pm »

The funniest thing I have ever heard about Carl Sagan was the time a certain college wanted to honor him by naming some pretty fantastic discovery after him. Like "The Sagan" or something like that. Sagan got his panties in a wad and started making threats and disowning the students. So instead of honoring him by using his name, the students simply named it "The Butthead Astronomer" !!! grin

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xx Re: Alien Abduction
« Reply #475 on: Mar 9th, 2011, 7:32pm »

Ice Pick,

In my narrative I mentioned that I recorded several of my abductions from a boat on a GPS. Do you know of any brain washing techniques for a GPS? Mine was not out of my possession at any time before I found these. The link is below my name.
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xx Re: Alien Abduction
« Reply #476 on: Mar 9th, 2011, 8:33pm »

Well let me play devil's advocate for a minute here. If you were abducted, can you be certain it was never out of your possession?

The point I'm trying to make is the meager little I know about abduction syndrome is that it's almost impossible to know anything for certain. That's why I take the stance I do. It's not to discredit, rather it's just to point out that some of the strangest things on record comes out of abduction cases.

And as far as my comments about MKULTRA and perceptions goes? Even in the event such an individual was brainwashed and nothing more, an abduction still took place. This is just the way I see it. If a person has a memory that traumatizes them, then they are just as traumatized as a person who had a physical experience. When it's the memory that's doing the damage, who am I to say that the person with the real memories suffers more than the person with the induced memories? In my mind, they don't. And this isn't an attempt to say nothing happened to you. It's an attempt to say we shouldn't discredit the suffering of anybody from such cases. Suffering==suffering. It's that simple.

As far as your experiences go, only you can address that. My long winded post back there was regarding people who have/had childhood issues due to self centered parents. If you're not one of them, you can disregard that entire post. Unless, of course, you have issues with attention seekers whose behavior reflects on you. To be honest? I would. People like that are who a couple of other posters refer to. They can, and do, cause people to disbelieve you.

Take care
Tim
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xx Re: Alien Abduction
« Reply #477 on: Mar 9th, 2011, 10:38pm »

actually ice and ski, i was just succesfully pointing out the immaturity bluntly stating that it was the (public)"ufo community" that did the throwing away;
and felt that you needed reminding that there was, in fact, curve balls thrown at us too, (right from the get-go; designed to limit our credibility.)

and, heaven forbid blaming anyone!..
(it was "ufo community" that threw away their credibility)

my gosh, who would do such a thing??!
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xx Re: Alien Abduction
« Reply #478 on: Mar 10th, 2011, 07:39am »

on Mar 9th, 2011, 10:38pm, grassyknoll wrote:
actually ice and ski, i was just succesfully pointing out the immaturity bluntly stating that it was the (public)"ufo community" that did the throwing away;
and felt that you needed reminding that there was, in fact, curve balls thrown at us too, (right from the get-go; designed to limit our credibility.)

and, heaven forbid blaming anyone!..
(it was "ufo community" that threw away their credibility)

my gosh, who would do such a thing??!
It will and always has been a problem people getting involved with a subject expecially ones like abductions and UFOs that never have seen one in real life never been abducted and just go on youtube ot websites like this one .Read someones storie either believe it or not make comments get dialoge going.Then even if the one who origanally said they were abducted but may not have been get others talking from the starting point of a made up storie.Then throw the government is not telling us why this is going on and now you have the start of disinformation.This goes on for years .More people respond to the first lie and before you know it you have thousands believing in a faked photo a storie that is not real.And then other stories you might read that are real are different from the lie and reall becomes the fake.Nothing governmental just people many of them in there 20s not even mature as people were 50 years ago.Acting more like teenagers that think they know everything.I myself have been on probably almost ever alien website there is in the last five years or more.Most of the stories that keep the dialoge going with comments are the negative stories.The I was raped by the aliens they made a hybrid of me and showed it to me and it is up there some where.Or the aliens are making hybrids to take over the earth.Or there up to know good.The stories that talk of them being nice gets nothing.Typical of the human. Slow down at a accident maybe we can see some blood.Independence day. And then these same people wonder why the beings do not come down.That the only way we might get some technology is to shoot them down.I personally find this pretty low life.I was talking to someone yesterday.She said she hated this man for knocking up her daughter that she wished she could kill him.I said that is typical of us.I said if I had the power and the knowledge of being far more in the future as I believe the beings are.Then if a person wanted to kill me say with a granade.They threw it at me and I just made it not work.He would throw it at me .He would run I would then just pick it up and watch him run away wondering .Why did he do that.If I was a human I would want to hunt him down and kill him now.She then said so if I had the mentallity of the beings you are talking about I would feel like I wanted to kill this man after what he did to my daughter.I said no.Because if you were as the beings are you would have taught your daughter and she would never have had a relationship with him because she would think he was just a low life doing stupid things.Like having relations of a sexual nature with a animal.Yes such a peaceful loving happy planet this place called earth .Humans truly are the cream of the crop in the entire universe.Nothing anywhere could be so smart or as kind as all of us.Oh look at that guy I am not as bad as him.Then someone looking at you or me says the same thing.And this planet has over 6 billion people on it and three quarters of the population is spiritual in one faith or another and then uses that to kill others.Yes be very proud hold your head high and when the time comes and you see your spiritual leader .Tell it what a great inspiration you have been to all the living things the spiritual being has made.
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xx Re: Alien Abduction
« Reply #479 on: Mar 10th, 2011, 1:57pm »

on Mar 9th, 2011, 7:23pm, LoneGunMan wrote:
The funniest thing I have ever heard about Carl Sagan was the time a certain college wanted to honor him by naming some pretty fantastic discovery after him. Like "The Sagan" or something like that. Sagan got his panties in a wad and started making threats and disowning the students. So instead of honoring him by using his name, the students simply named it "The Butthead Astronomer" !!! grin

Lone


LOL LOL LOL!!! A hilarious (and much deserved!) jab grin
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