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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abduction  (Read 40392 times)
drwu23
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #105 on: Jan 19th, 2014, 1:18pm »

on Jan 19th, 2014, 1:07pm, INT21 wrote:
....It seems to me the best course would be to just deny that ufos are alien and that it's of any concern to them and let the ufo community argue amongst themselves, present wild conspiracy ideas, and let them look foolish all by themselves. ...

So, business as usual then ?

HAL
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Absolutely.....
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #106 on: Jan 19th, 2014, 4:49pm »

It doesn't make any sense that the Air Force would want us to think UFOs are not real while another branch of the military would do just the opposite.

I thought the title of this thread had something to do with critical thinking. rolleyes

Flat
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #107 on: Jan 20th, 2014, 6:51pm »

Hello, all -

As is the case with any developing circumstances, we will have to wait and see exactly what Nick Redfern presents in order to ultimately judge its merit. In the mean time, we might consider the underlying issues present in some of the questions recently stated and implied in this thread. Such issues are typically raised when considering the possibility the intelligence community (IC) might be responsible for some perceptions of reported alien abduction. In my opinion, it would be helpful in more thoroughly understanding the possibilities and lines of reasoning by reviewing some of the following materials and circumstances contained therein.

The IC has a long and well documented history of intentionally misleading the public. It's simply what they do. Such circumstances include media manipulation on a mass scale, covert infiltration of groups conducting activism, covert use of involuntary human research subjects and executing false flag UFO events. Documentation with references is available in The UFO Trail article, One of Those Posts About Validated Conspiracy Theories.

More specific referenced documentation of the IC abuse of human research subjects is available in a series of posts at The UFO Trail. Interested parties might choose to read:

John Marks and 'The Search for the Manchurian Candidate'

The CIA and the Search for the Manchurian Candidate, Part One of Two

The CIA and the Search for the Manchurian Candidate, Part Two of Two

Circumstances specifically and directly relevant to ufology and involving the IC were cited and explored in Influence of the Intelligence Community in Ufology. Such circumstances included NSA intelligence analysts who came to be known as the Gulf Breeze Six, as well as virtually constant contradictions expressed by members of the IC who call themselves insiders. Circumstances additionally considered included ufology activities conducted by CIA and DIA men Ron Pandolfi, Paul Murad and Kit Green, and as documented by writer Gus Russo.

In a two-part post at The UFO Trail on ethics of exploring the fringe, writer/researchers Nigel Watson and Mark Pilkington discussed such circumstances as Paul Bennewtiz and Linda Moulton Howe being intentionally misled and manipulated. Watson's comments may be viewed in part one. Pilkington's remarks may be viewed in part two, which included his statement (of which I happen to very much agree), "While these UFO-themed operations are probably quite rare, the UFO community has to take on board the fact that they have happened, and that their purpose, and their methods, are necessarily obscure."

The purposes and methods are necessarily obscure. Again, that is what the IC does and the nature of its game.

More specific circumstances of intentionally leading the UFO community astray were documented and provided at Reality Uncovered. A series of relevant posts were made in Project Serpo Uncovered.

It is due to such well documented circumstances as contained in the posts linked above that some researchers suspect a percentage of involuntary research subjects might have incorrectly assumed themselves alien abductees. Whether or not such lines of reasoning are either accepted or fully understood, the circumstances referenced above indeed partially represent why some investigators think further research is justified into the possibilities; agree or not, those are some of the reasons.

Whether or not the suspicions of such researchers will ever be conclusively established is yet to be seen. Personally, I look forward to more credible work published on the related topics, as I am of the opinion that IC manipulation of ufology is an interesting, under reported and largely misunderstood area of research.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #108 on: Jan 20th, 2014, 7:42pm »

I recently bought a set of the old Long John Nebel radio programs and was listening to an interview with Arthur C. Clarke. In the interview Clarke explains his position on abductions.
He made the point that the numbers of abductees actually works against abductions being real.
His point is that if they were real it would only take a few to have real proof that they were happening. And the idea that a race from beyond would have worked up to full contact by that point in time if it was really happening.
And this was in the 1960s if I'm not mistaken.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #109 on: Jan 20th, 2014, 10:53pm »

on Jan 20th, 2014, 7:42pm, skizicks wrote:
I recently bought a set of the old Long John Nebel radio programs and was listening to an interview with Arthur C. Clarke. In the interview Clarke explains his position on abductions.
He made the point that the numbers of abductees actually works against abductions being real.
His point is that if they were real it would only take a few to have real proof that they were happening. And the idea that a race from beyond would have worked up to full contact by that point in time if it was really happening.
And this was in the 1960s if I'm not mistaken.

That line of thinking ties in with Dr Vallee also who has been saying for years, since at least the 70's, that the vast number of abductions and sightings doesn't fit the idea that advanced aliens are surveying earth and humans. Any sufficiently technologically advanced aliens would have figured out our species a long time ago. This line of reasoning is presented in his '5 reasons against the extraterrestrial hypothesis' which can be found in the appendix to his book Revelations and on his Wiki page.
I also posted it here a year or so ago.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #110 on: Jan 21st, 2014, 7:36pm »

Dr.
I do remember your post, I just thought it worthwhile to point out that it was also considered a long time ago by a leader in the field at the time.
( Also I thought I would plug the recordings that are now available. ) grin
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #111 on: Jan 22nd, 2014, 07:05am »

If the 456 is just a imaginary cover story, who is really taking 2,300
people a day?

The Missing
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/forensics/americas_missing/2.html

Maybe these missing people "could" have some "proof" but then again,
maybe not.

undecided
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #112 on: Jan 22nd, 2014, 09:06am »

on Jan 21st, 2014, 7:36pm, skizicks wrote:
Dr.
I do remember your post, I just thought it worthwhile to point out that it was also considered a long time ago by a leader in the field at the time.
( Also I thought I would plug the recordings that are now available. ) grin

I understand though Clarke was never a 'leader' in the field of ufo research or related aspects like exobiology/aliens but he was a sci -fi author and science writer with a background in engineering and physics who helped develop the concept of satellite communication, early radar, and was very interested in interplanetary travel. He also had an interest in the 'paranormal' though he became a skeptic in later years.
But as you pointed out Dr Vallee was not the first to question the sheer number of visits and abductions that seemingly are perpetrated by 'aliens'.

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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #113 on: Jan 22nd, 2014, 09:12am »

on Jan 22nd, 2014, 07:05am, MOKSHA wrote:
If the 456 is just a imaginary cover story, who is really taking 2,300
people a day?

The Missing
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/forensics/americas_missing/2.html

Maybe these missing people "could" have some "proof" but then again,
maybe not.

undecided


I read that short piece...didn't see space aliens mentioned. wink
My point is that people 'go missing' all the time and can be attributed to any number of prosaic reasons.
Let's not assume they are automatically being abducted by aliens.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #114 on: Jan 23rd, 2014, 12:12am »

on Jan 20th, 2014, 10:53pm, drwu23 wrote:
Any sufficiently technologically advanced aliens would have figured out our species a long time ago.


I agree, if they were just here to figure out what makes a human "tick", they would certainly have been finished long ago. Just like a researcher may "abduct" an animal, study and tag it, then release it back in its native habitat.

But if the Aliens are in fact conducting inter-breeding experiments, (a theory poised by a number of researchers) that would certainly explain why they continue abductions and many generations of the same family-line, as has been reported (notice I did not say proved)...
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #115 on: Jan 23rd, 2014, 12:20am »

on Jan 17th, 2014, 7:34pm, jjflash wrote:
Writer/researcher Nick Redfern indicated today that he believes the Betty and Barney Hill alleged alien abduction was part of Project MKULTRA, a CIA venture into mind control and behavior modification.


It is funny and fascinating what people are willing to believe.

The US Government can't keep Bill & Monica a secret, but they can perpetrate a mind-control project tied to Alien Abductions and keep it secret for nearly 50 years?

REALLY?

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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #116 on: Jan 23rd, 2014, 5:18pm »

on Jan 23rd, 2014, 12:20am, Mythos wrote:
It is funny and fascinating what people are willing to believe.

The US Government can't keep Bill & Monica a secret, but they can perpetrate a mind-control project tied to Alien Abductions and keep it secret for nearly 50 years?

REALLY?





Oh my...comparing Bill's indiscretions to keeping alien secrets...? Don't think they are in the same league at all.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #117 on: Jan 23rd, 2014, 5:23pm »

on Jan 23rd, 2014, 12:12am, Mythos wrote:
I agree, if they were just here to figure out what makes a human "tick", they would certainly have been finished long ago. Just like a researcher may "abduct" an animal, study and tag it, then release it back in its native habitat.

But if the Aliens are in fact conducting inter-breeding experiments, (a theory poised by a number of researchers) that would certainly explain why they continue abductions and many generations of the same family-line, as has been reported (notice I did not say proved)...


I have never bought into the idea 'they' are interbreeding with humans. It's unlikely we are a dna match and even if our dna were compatible once again advanced aliens should have solved any bio reproduction issues by now and would have no need to do such a thing.
And again it could have been done a long time ago assuming that they have been here since Roswell. In over 50 years they would have far far more genetic material than they could possibly need.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #118 on: Jan 23rd, 2014, 5:24pm »

on Jan 23rd, 2014, 12:20am, Mythos wrote:
The US Government can't keep Bill & Monica a secret, but they can perpetrate a mind-control project tied to Alien Abductions and keep it secret for nearly 50 years?


I can understand why one might present such a question, but doing so takes the topic and statements of Redfern out of context. Those who sincerely desire to understand more about the subject matter might choose to review such individuals as John Marks, Ewen Cameron and Martin Orne, as previously referenced. A basic understanding of such circumstances is required in order to reasonably interpret the lines of reasoning of such researchers as Redfern, and whether or not such lines of reasoing may ultimately prove to be accurate.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #119 on: Jan 23rd, 2014, 5:29pm »

From the Magonia blog and relevant to the discussion, in my opinion:

"The closing of the US Internet mailing list 'UFO Updates' seems to be yet another nail in the coffin of ufology. To be honest the thing had been struggling for years and the days when it was the home to some intelligent passionate debates had long gone.

"Its problem was that for many of the contributors ufology was a religion not a science. Any critical discussion of classic cases was howled down with cries of 'pelicanist', 'skeptibunker' and the rest. The definition of these epithets was “anyone who suggests any explanation of UFO reports that does not involve non-human or at least exotic intelligences”. It’s clear that many on the list and wider saw their role as conservators of mysteries rather than as solvers of puzzles. Not surprisingly most well-known British ufologists joined the blacklist of those who were to be shouted down by, for example, Pope Jerry Clark. Magonians were joined by Nigel Watson, David Clarke, Andy Roberts and latterly Joe McGonagle (and I suspect that Jenny Randles and Paul Devereux were in there somewhere). Their crime was arguing that UFO reports were probably not generated by alien intelligences.

"At least critics of the classic cases were allowed to put their case, those who criticised Saint Budd and Jacobs were just thrown off the list. No matter how wild and dangerous their claims became, no matter that they wrecked people’s lives; that Jacobs went in for the shrillest kind of substitute antisemitism or however much John Mack cheer-led for the old apartheid regime in South Africa (even having the gall to attack Nelson Mandela for teaching the 'natives' white folks ways) they remained inviolate.

"Of course the defectors from the abductionist cult such as Carol Rainey got the worst of it. Rainey was portrayed as the caricature shrewish and vengeful ex-wife of Budd Hopkins, rather than someone who, having participated in his research had been eventually able to see the dangerous techniques and assumptions behind it. For this she was subjected to a barrage of misogynist abuse on UpDates, which provoked a number of contributors, including Magonia Online editor John Rimmer, to sever links with the list. Of course the Hopkins fan-boys and eager believers stayed to the bitter end and eventually drove it into the ground. It will be missed but not mourned."

Source:

http://pelicanist.blogspot.com/2014/01/northern-echoes-i-read-it-in-papers.html
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