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ZETAR
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #180 on: Mar 17th, 2014, 12:59pm »

I OFTEN LIKE HOW PURR IS SUCH A>>>CAT ~ ALYST<<< TO SPUR THE DEBATE FORWARD grin

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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #181 on: Mar 17th, 2014, 1:20pm »

Purrhaps I could help clarify a couple things. Purrhaps not.

- Researchers such as Barbara Lamb claim to have direct direct and ongoing access to people claiming to be ET-human hybrid beings.

- Researchers such as David Jacobs claim to have direct and ongoing access to people who term themselves breeders, regularly interact with alleged hybrids and similar circumstances that would, at least theoretically, provide investigators with a hotbed of forensic evidence.

- As far as stating it is not my responsibility, Dr. Kokjohn's or anyone else's to clarify how such evidence should be handled and examined, purr, please allow me to expand on that concept a bit. Thank you.

In my opinion, criticizing the perspectives of Kokjohn misses the fundamental point that he is not the investigator asserting the initial claims. I interpret him to be suggesting further testing be done - and that such claims be actually verified, etc. - prior to making and promoting them. In short, it is never the reviewer's job to dismiss the claim, but the original researcher's responsibility to validate it.

- That stated, I understand that what you, purr, continue to question is whether alien DNA, if existent, could be accurately identified. I interpret it virtually doesn't matter in that any number of abnormalities should be subject to appear in samples collected from alleged hybrids, and, again, researchers should at the least check (or at least that would be the case if they believed their own claims). Please consider:

on Mar 10th, 2014, 1:09pm, jjflash wrote:
Below are some excerpts from microbiologist Dr. Tyler Kokjohn's latest piece, Free Market Ufology: Demand a Better Supply. Published at Jeff Ritzmann's Paranormal Waypoint, I highly recommend reading the article in full and digesting it.

Free Market Ufology: Demand a Better Supply

March 10, 2014

By Tyler Kokjohn, Ph.D.

[...]

Another strategy exploring the limits of nothing is being put forth by Dr. David Jacobs. He posits an evolutionary process for hybrids that yields entities ‘human in every way except for sleep cycle and ability to control others’ (http://ufotrail.blogspot.com/2012/04/bizarre-world-of-doctor-david-jacobs.html). In one sense this ploy seems to neatly avoid some vexing questions by making it appear these entities could not be identified like the alleged earlier stage hybrids. The changes in sleep cycle and ability to control others must have been imparted through some mechanism executed by the aliens. At some level, these changes – genetic, biochemical, ultrastructural, cellular, or anatomic – will leave traces. In addition to powerful genetic analysis tools, scientific competition and market forces have combined to provide researchers with the ability to detect changes in protein profiles, perturbations in gene expression patterns and epigenetic modifications to the genome that alter gene activity without changing the basic DNA sequence. Pick your poison, Doctor. Although not at all hybrid privacy friendly, this free market has produced some amazingly powerful and useful analysis technology.

Full article:

http://www.paranormalwaypoint.com/free-market-ufology-demand-a-better-supply/


All of which brings us back around to the scientific process, or, purrhaps more aptly stated, the bastardization thereof; if said researchers are not going to conduct such tests, adjust their hypotheses accordingly and publish the work in appropriate journals, then it's not science as falsely claimed and as aptly pointed out by Kokjohn and others. We might also consider and question why such researchers are ever making the claims in the first place - under the flag of science - if they have no proof of their allegations, and particularly if they refuse to further test their hypotheses.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #182 on: Mar 17th, 2014, 1:24pm »

Posted today at UFO Collective

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ufo-collective/PHrkCvfmE-s

"ET – HUMAN HYBRIDS: THEY ARE REAL & THEY ARE HERE"

The above proclamation was copied and pasted from the top of an Orange County MUFON email distributed on several occasions leading up to the March 20, 2013 appearance of Barbara Lamb. The email went on to explain that hypnotist Lamb had discovered many of her clients to have unwittingly contributed to the creation of ET-human hybrid beings. Some of those clients, it was claimed, "have discovered that they themselves _are_ hybrid beings, with a certain portion of ET genes." [emphasis theirs]

The promotional email continued, "She will also show photos of human-looking hybrids who live here among us on earth, some of whom Barbara knows personally."

I subsequently wrote a short article, posted in April of 2013, focusing on the Orange County MUFON email and purported circumstances, and in preparation Lamb was contacted for comment. I asked what justification she could present for such extraordinary claims, as it would certainly seem that she and her colleagues would be extremely eager to get at and publish such readily available opportunities to examine blood composition, DNA and similar physical circumstances of those purported to possess "a certain portion of ET genes."

Lamb failed to directly address the related questions during an email exchange, and when further urged to do so she sent no more replies. To date she has never produced what would of course be the absolutely extraordinary data.

I also attempted to contact MUFON's Jan Harzan for comment, as he was not only in a role of MUFON leadership but I interpreted him to be responsible for Southern California operations as well as particularly familiar with the Orange County chapter. Multiple emails were sent inquiring why an organization purporting to be dedicated to scientific study would promote and provide a venue for such fantastic yet unsubstantiated claims. No replies were received from Harzan.

The full April article may be viewed at:

http://tinyurl.com/no8lotr

People are entitled to believe whatever they choose. They are not entitled, however, to misrepresent nonscientific activities as scientific study, as being repeatedly perpetrated by MUFON.

It would indeed be helpful if the collective UFO community evolved to decrease its demand for such circumstances, in turn decreasing some's temptation to provide the supply. I personally made a choice to stop financially supporting those who fail to be accountable.

Regards,

Jack
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #183 on: Mar 17th, 2014, 8:08pm »

on Mar 17th, 2014, 1:24pm, jjflash wrote:
The above proclamation was copied and pasted from the top of an Orange County MUFON email distributed on several occasions leading up to the March 20, 2013 appearance of Barbara Lamb.

Regards, Jack


I'll start with this one, so that you can see that I do not always disagree with you:

I was at this OC-MUFON meeting and while Barbara Lamb comes off sounding sweet and sincere, her message / talk gets real kooky - real fast with layer upon layer of information all leading to a point where the listener just says "enough" and starts rejecting it all as a bunch of crap! No proof no evidence, just a long story leading you into a never-never land...
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #184 on: Mar 17th, 2014, 8:25pm »

on Mar 12th, 2014, 7:28pm, jjflash wrote:
Lastly, this one is for you ZETAR smiley

I am sure you have read it before, but, as was the case with me, it had been a while, as it is from Dr. Mack's work. A Brief Review of Issues Relating to the Reality of the Abduction Phenomenon is the added appendix of Mack's book, Abduction.

The "brief review" is rather lengthy, but makes some relevant points, in my opinion. For example, those choosing to read it might please note the number of times - several - the psychiatrist noted that more research was required, as nothing was firmly established, given the nature and challenges related to lack of physical evidence combined with memory distortion and so on.

Dr. Mack wrote, "The interpretations and conclusions in this book are hypotheses, designed to invite others to join me in the exploration of this important mystery. The alien abduction field is a new one, and it deserves a broad and systematic multi-disciplinary inquiry."

Would he approve of the activities of such individuals as David Jacobs and as explored in this thread? The lack of peer review and the suppression of potential evidence? I'll leave the reader to contemplate the answers to such questions for themselves.


Again, I find it extremely amusing how people continue to place Mack in some special untouchable category while bashing Jacobs and Hopkins.

PLEASE someone, anyone (here) READ:
Abduction by John Mack
The Threat by David Jacobs
Sight Unseen by Budd Hopkins and his THEN Wife (turned Basher after he divorced her) Carol Rainey.

And report back here on who has the wackiest interpretations, conclusions and hypotheses!

It is my opinion that Mack's stuff is by far the most unbelievable, so anyone believing his "output" to be believable has no room to bash either Jacobs & Hopkins, even if you want to hide behind the SCIENCE card...
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #185 on: Mar 18th, 2014, 3:48pm »

I've read a lot of the published material of Mack, Jacobs and Hopkins, including the three books you mentioned, Mythos. I've attended their presentations and so on.

I'm not critical of holding fringe beliefs or expressing extreme perspectives. I'm critical of purporting it to be scientific when it's not, and I'm critical of demands to accept claims lacking conclusive evidence. The former is at best incompetent and often likely dishonest, while the latter is simply unreasonable.

I don't care what people choose to believe. Neither do I have an agenda about personal testimonies. If someone says something happened to them, so be it. It's their prerogative to interpret their experiences how they choose.

My agenda is about being opposed to sham inquiry, as Sharon Hill coined the term, the misrepresentation of nonscientific activities as science. I'm also opposed to researchers making assertions they can't back up with verifiable facts.

The reason I am concerned about such activities is because some people – some of those who publicly shared their experiences and came to interpret them the ways they did because of 'ufologists' – are being and have long been exploited by the so-called researchers. So are members of the UFO community, the people that financially support the organizations, the folks who buy the books, those who try to expand on the research (that was flawed in the first place) and a lot of other people as well.

There may actually be phenomena of interest at the heart of ufology and what has come to be called alien abduction. However, it is a reasonable conclusion that the circumstances have been manipulated, distorted and blatantly misrepresented to the point of actuality being virtually impossible to discern. The perpetrators include several demographics with an even greater number of motives. Such demographics include charlatans, individuals with good intentions but ultimately unhelpful who were drawn in by (and fell victim to) the rhetoric of the charlatans, the intelligence community and others. The resulting lies, distortions and misinformation were cultivated and spread for decades through conferences, regional meetings and publishing houses like influenza in the depths of winter.

We will never know how the present day public at large would have interpreted events of high strangeness if they had not been so deeply conditioned to accept preconceived – yet entirely unsubstantiated – conclusions. We will never know because it already happened, thanks to demographics as just mentioned... as well as the resulting bad television, bad documentaries, influence of Hollywood, CIA propaganda and manipulation of belief systems (similarly conducted by the KGB and global IC), sensationalism within the UFO community, bad so-called nonprofit orgs masquerading as scientific research groups, philanthropists with unclear and suspect motives and so on. The leading of the witness begins long before they ever meet the hypnotist.

By the way, I'm not a big fan of Mack. I offered the material he wrote because ZETAR has expressed an interest in him several times. The bottom line on Mack, Hopkins, Jacobs and all of them is that they can offer no conclusive evidence whatsoever of their pet theories. At least Mack did not claim conclusions, but the same cannot be said for the other two, Lamb, Cannon and many more.

Unfortunately, people become hurt in the crossfire, influenced (if not directly and intentionally led) to believe they are hybrids, influenced to believe they have parented hybrids, influenced to believe they have been repeatedly kidnapped and tortured (including sexually assaulted) by both human and non-human beings, had their case files - including hypnotic regression tapes - sold without their knowledge and subsequently had their trust deeply betrayed (see Carpenter Affair), emotionally devastated and the list of trauma on top of trauma goes on and on. PayPal accepted.

Meanwhile, there might actually be some events of interest taking place among experiencers, and some of the origins of those events might indeed be diverse and vast, while some may be the covert operations of quite human technology, corporations and agencies. Whatever the case may be from one specific incident to the next, those committing sham inquiry are certainly not getting any of us any closer to accurate understandings, and, more importantly, they are adding to the list of hurt, humiliated and devastated individuals already left trying to recover in the wake.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #186 on: Mar 18th, 2014, 7:37pm »

JJ,

NOT MANY POSTS YOU HAVE ~ FAIL TO GET MY ATTENTION ~ DID I SAY IT IS AN HONOR TO EVALUATE/CONSIDER/DIGEST YOUR THOUGHTS. wink

DO I COMPLETELY ACCEPT OR DENY HOPKINS, JACOBS, MACK, HYNEK, VON DANIKEN, etc....THE CAST OF CHARACTERS WHOM THROUGH NOTHING OTHER THAN THE TENACITY OF THEIR CURIOSITY AND PASSION SOUGHT TO REACH BEYOND THE NORM TO ATTEMPT TO UNDERSTAND A PHENOMENA WHICH SEEMS TO PRECEDE ANY MIRAGE (MOST RESPECTFULLY) ~ THE HISTORICALLY INNOCENT DAYS WHEREIN EXPLOITATION OF SUCH A PHENOMENA WASN'T EVEN CONSIDERED...BUT YET STILL CONTINUES...>>>NO<<<...DO I RECOGNIZE THE FALLIBILITY OF MAN AND OR EACH AND EVERY RESEARCHER IN THIS ENDEAVOR...>>>YES<<<...HOWEVER...I FURTHER GRASP THE FACT THAT IN THE TOTALITY OF THE AFOREMENTIONED RESEARCHERS THERE ARE NUGGETS OF TRUTH AND TREASURES TO CONSIDER...IT'S NOT ALL A MISS~ DIRECTION TO THWART THE MASSES/MANIPULATE THE MASSES...THOSE CONVENIENT TRUTHS AND BELIEFS WHICH HAVE AUGMENTED MANY A BLACK OP...BUT THE WISDOM OF MANY MYTHS (AS SOME MAY CONSIDER) IS THAT THERE ARE TRUTHS ATTACHED FOR SUCH MYTHOLOGICAL LONGEVITY TO EXIST...IMHO

TIS ALWAYS A TREAT TO READ YOUR POSTS MY FRIEND wink

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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #187 on: Apr 2nd, 2014, 1:46pm »

What Happened to the Ambient Monitoring Project?

The UFO Trail

April 2, 2014

Three UFO organizations collaborated during the 1990's to launch a research project of unprecedented significance to the alien abduction genre. The Ambient Monitoring Project was an impressive, scientifically designed effort to actually quantify details of what to date had remained elusive and fleeting: what, if anything, out of the ordinary was physically taking place in the environment during an alleged abduction.

Researchers aimed to collect large amounts of data measurements from the homes of people reporting repeat alien abductions. The investigative venture consisted of investing in several years of designing equipment, tweaking its implementation and securing third party qualified consultants to analyze the resulting data.

In 2006, the MUFON newly appointed international director, James Carrion, announced during an interview with Tim Binnall that completing the Ambient Monitoring Project was among the organization's top five priorities. By 2008, the MUFON Journal reported the data collection phase of the project was complete and that analysis was underway. Individuals eager to hear more about it congregated to the MUFON forum, monitored announcements at conferences and kept watchful eyes on various publications.

However, neither the results nor a final project report were ever published. What happened to the AMP?

Full article:

http://ufotrail.blogspot.com/2014/04/what-happened-to-ambient-monitoring.html
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #188 on: Apr 3rd, 2014, 08:37am »

on Apr 2nd, 2014, 1:46pm, jjflash wrote:
What Happened to the Ambient Monitoring Project?

The UFO Trail

April 2, 2014

Three UFO organizations collaborated during the 1990's to launch a research project of unprecedented significance to the alien abduction genre. The Ambient Monitoring Project was an impressive, scientifically designed effort to actually quantify details of what to date had remained elusive and fleeting: what, if anything, out of the ordinary was physically taking place in the environment during an alleged abduction.

Researchers aimed to collect large amounts of data measurements from the homes of people reporting repeat alien abductions. The investigative venture consisted of investing in several years of designing equipment, tweaking its implementation and securing third party qualified consultants to analyze the resulting data.

In 2006, the MUFON newly appointed international director, James Carrion, announced during an interview with Tim Binnall that completing the Ambient Monitoring Project was among the organization's top five priorities. By 2008, the MUFON Journal reported the data collection phase of the project was complete and that analysis was underway. Individuals eager to hear more about it congregated to the MUFON forum, monitored announcements at conferences and kept watchful eyes on various publications.

However, neither the results nor a final project report were ever published. What happened to the AMP?

Full article:

http://ufotrail.blogspot.com/2014/04/what-happened-to-ambient-monitoring.html


I recall reading about something similar to that over 10 years ago. Don't recall the name of the project but those involved were going to set up monitoring equipment in the homes of alleged frequent abductees to see if they could capture anything on tape and other devices such as motion detectors etc.
Then nothing was ever heard again about the project.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #189 on: Apr 6th, 2014, 02:16am »

on Apr 3rd, 2014, 08:37am, drwu23 wrote:
I recall reading about something similar to that over 10 years ago. Don't recall the name of the project but those involved were going to set up monitoring equipment in the homes of alleged frequent abductees to see if they could capture anything on tape and other devices such as motion detectors etc.
Then nothing was ever heard again about the project.


drwu23 , there were several attempts in the past to physically monitor abductees. According to Tom Deuley "...David
Jacobs about an attempt to use a video camera to monitor an
abductee, but the subject reported that just before the
abduction was about to occur, he got an overwhelming
desire to turn the camera off. Here again there was no
evidence of an external physical influence."

Read more: http://ufomania.proboards.com/thread/1062?page=1#ixzz2y5W7ZfWn

The difference about AMP is that the equipment was sealed and the device was broadcasting the data constantly in real time. No camera, though. That was a really good project at the time, one of the best, but unfortunately way outdated now. A regular smartphone can do almost the same today.

Iza (a.k.a stiver)
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #190 on: Apr 6th, 2014, 1:04pm »

on Apr 6th, 2014, 02:16am, stiver wrote:
drwu23 , there were several attempts in the past to physically monitor abductees. According to Tom Deuley "...David
Jacobs about an attempt to use a video camera to monitor an
abductee, but the subject reported that just before the
abduction was about to occur, he got an overwhelming
desire to turn the camera off. Here again there was no
evidence of an external physical influence."

Read more: http://ufomania.proboards.com/thread/1062?page=1#ixzz2y5W7ZfWn

The difference about AMP is that the equipment was sealed and the device was broadcasting the data constantly in real time. No camera, though. That was a really good project at the time, one of the best, but unfortunately way outdated now. A regular smartphone can do almost the same today.

Iza (a.k.a stiver)


Thanks for the info.
It would seem to me that something should have been 'caught' on devices by now in the homes of 'frequent abductees' yet we still have no good data/evidence.
Why is that? Are the 'aliens' so advanced that they can block things and even brainwash people to turn off the devices? I have a huge problem with that line of thinking.
The more time goes on and we still have no good evidence for 'alien abductions' makes me wonder what is really happening and if it's something else even more strange.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #191 on: Apr 6th, 2014, 2:08pm »

From my own experience of government entering my home covertly the first move is to disable cameras etc, and then we have the big problem of remote control. Most cameras have wireless remote that is easy to use to their advantage and at one time trying to film what I believed ET they pointed something that showed as a red dot on the view screen and the camera switched off so nothing to do with brain washing etc as that’s nothing more than fantasy or a get out clause for those trying to gain monetary or attention. Lots of evidence around it is just that no one is interested even though they falsely give that impression, take the Taylor case. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Taylor_incident now here is a well investigated case that could possibly give a lot of answers due to the advancement of forensics but do you see such as MUFON approaching the police to access the evidence gathered for investigation. Nope big nope and how many other incidents that hold vital information are being ignored? then we have the different forms of alleged abduction, home sleeping , at work, driving and if genuine leave trace but those seeking monetary gain or sensationalism never offer such and it is never investigated so we are left with nothing more than a story and that’s what those blocking the revelation of ET want. If those running the big organizations genuinely wanted to put this saga to bed they would employ a forensic team that could attend an incident quickly and prove or disprove the ET reality but that will never happen as they prefer to keep ET in limbo earning big bucks
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #192 on: Apr 10th, 2014, 11:00am »

some very good comments. Be sure to check out my articles:

http://ufos.about.com/od/aliensalienabduction/i/abductionissue.htm

and

http://ufos.about.com/od/aliensalienabduction/a/bestabductions.htm

thanks
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #193 on: Apr 10th, 2014, 11:04am »

EXCELLENT WORK B.J.!!!

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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #194 on: Apr 10th, 2014, 5:21pm »

I really need to get out more lol; I never realized that BJ was Billy Booth and I have been visiting his site for years lol sorry BJ. I can understand if it was just asleep in bed abduction the skeptic arguing sci fi but there are many scenarios and when you corner the skeptic with straight forward questions they run to the hills rather than supply an answer. I cannot say if I have or have not implants from ET but I did remove one in a tooth that sure as heck was human but if we are an experiment then like us they would tag their victim so the possibility of ET implants is a strong possibility and as their technology is outside our understanding then these chips of metal or glass might just be a transmitter we just do not know and because we do not know then how can the skeptic believe they are so correct in their assumptions. I look at abduction as a criminal act no matter who or what is behind it and strongly believe our governments should protect us against such, so long as there is denial and skepticism then this will never be investigated. if this was a criminal gang abducting just the children or women claiming abduction then every police force in the world would be searching for answers yet because those committing this crime against the person are mostly alien then nothing is done , it is not just a few people claiming such it is a vast number yet it is ignored and classed as a mental disorder yet you would think with it being such a vast number they would be concerned as to why so many where developing this madness yet again no government investigation, now if I was one of the so called sane ones then I would be extremely worried as it might be a form of say virus creating this mental disorder so I would demand the claims of the insane be investigated and not just ridiculed lol you could be next..
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