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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abduction  (Read 40401 times)
Mythos
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #210 on: Jun 24th, 2014, 11:14pm »

on Jun 23rd, 2014, 10:09am, drwu23 wrote:
How many abductee's does he need to interview?


How about just ONE?







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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #211 on: Jun 25th, 2014, 12:32pm »

on Jun 24th, 2014, 11:14pm, Mythos wrote:
How about just ONE?


One is a very low sample.....wouldn't you say...? wink
But that wasn't my point at all. What I was saying was that plenty of people have done interviews and analysis of 'abductees' over the last 35 years. One can choose whichever position one likes from the various books and use it to draw your own conclusions. That is what that author did....and he supported it with his own ideas and position from a science model. I have no problem with that. It doesn't mean that you or I have to agree with him.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #212 on: Jun 28th, 2014, 12:50am »

on Jun 25th, 2014, 12:32pm, drwu23 wrote:
One is a very low sample.....wouldn't you say...? wink
But that wasn't my point at all. What I was saying was that plenty of people have done interviews and analysis of 'abductees' over the last 35 years. One can choose whichever position one likes from the various books and use it to draw your own conclusions. That is what that author did....and he supported it with his own ideas and position from a science model. I have no problem with that. It doesn't mean that you or I have to agree with him.


Well I would just imagine that someone who has interviewed HUNDREDS of (alleged) Abductee's might know a bit more about it that a guy who has never looked into the eyes of a single one!

But if you have a blog and are looking to bash UFO researchers certainly anyone with a wall full of degrees MUST be quotable..
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #213 on: Jun 28th, 2014, 3:19pm »

on Jun 28th, 2014, 12:50am, Mythos wrote:
Well I would just imagine that someone who has interviewed HUNDREDS of (alleged) Abductee's might know a bit more about it that a guy who has never looked into the eyes of a single one!

But if you have a blog and are looking to bash UFO researchers certainly anyone with a wall full of degrees MUST be quotable..


You are still missing the point. He chooses not to interpret the data the same way as the 'believers' do.
Just because an abductee researcher, like Jacobs, thinks its aliens doesn't mean it is.
And it sounds to me like you are simply taking the side of the alien abduction believers because that's your side also. How is that objective and non biased and any less bashing?
huh

We need an objective look into the phenomenon without taking sides . As Vallee has said before there's a chance to do some good science here and perhaps discover something very important but all we get are amateurs with no real science background biased from the start and then writing books to support their own beliefs.
The fact is that neither Hopkins (now deceased) nor Jacobs ; the two foremost abduction researchers of the last 25 years, had any background in science, forensics, or investigation techniques. Hopkins was an abstract artist from New York and Jacobs a history prof from Temple University. I was fortunate enough to have met Hopkins once at a ufo seminar in Grand rapids MI, and he was a very nice man but he was not well versed in the ufo phenom over all and admitted he spent almost all of his time focusing on abductee interviews and their issues.

We need some seriously focused experts or the 'abduction phenom' will remain lost in the clouds.
« Last Edit: Jun 29th, 2014, 1:19pm by drwu23 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #214 on: Jun 29th, 2014, 3:39pm »

Among the most debilitating challenges to ufology is its community's widespread inabilities to rationally and objectively weigh information. This often includes:

- Inabilities to accurately differentiate between functionally challenging assertions and personally attacking the researcher

- Inabilities to accurately differentiate between an opinion and an established fact

- Inabilities to consider or realistically comment on how we might challenge unsubstantiated claims if not by asking reasonable questions

- Inabilities to stay on specific points without changing the focus of a discussion to other unsubstantiated and often completely unrelated assertions

- General partisan perspectives accompanied by inclinations to defend the party lines regardless of credibility of information presented that contradicts the preconceived belief

- Overall lack of understanding that the professional research process includes checks and balances, and failing to support and abide by the protocol results in environments conducive to extremely poor quality of information

It is for these very reasons that the UFO community is such an attractive destination for charlatans and hoaxers. A reasonable argument could competently be made that a majority of its members prefer an entertaining lie to the truth.

I was recently involved in an exchange at UFO Collective which included the previously posted comments of guyx:

on Jun 18th, 2014, 1:23pm, jjflash wrote:
Comments worthy of consideration from guyx recently posted at UFO Collective:

List,

If indeed there are hybrids among us, it's a simple matter to determine. Said hybrids ought to come forward and have a swab taken from the inside cheek. If there is any odd DNA upon testing it will show up rather easily. Further, testing living members of the same family will demonstrate any divergence of their DNA assuming there has been epigenetic tampering in the recent past, or an influx of off-planet DNA.


The exchange led to comments from Peter Brookesmith, who wrote in part, "Ufology was never 'scientific', because its proponents have never understood what science actually is, how it works, or what it really does."
I would recommend considering his comments in full:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/ufo-collective/PHrkCvfmE-s/GxWJdz5GTcYJ

Mr. Brookesmith's remarks were followed shortly by some from Kevin Randle, who noted, "The same research methods that failed in the twentieth century are being used today. Abduction researchers will not accept the idea that sleep paralysis does explain some abductions (mention this and the retort is always, "Some of the abductees were wide awake when it happened.") Even when it is clear that sleep paralysis explains a specific case they feel the need to argue...

"The point is this: I don't believe that anything will change because the people involved do not want real answers, they want their belief structures validated. They don't want research, they want to be included in some group. Contrary to stated opinion, this is a group that some wish to join. It is not going to change and it really doesn't matter what we do. Twenty years from now we'll be having the same discussion."

I would also recommend reading and considering Mr. Randle's email in full.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #215 on: Jun 29th, 2014, 6:10pm »

From jj's post:
"The point is this: I don't believe that anything will change because the people involved do not want real answers, they want their belief structures validated. They don't want research, they want to be included in some group. Contrary to stated opinion, this is a group that some wish to join. It is not going to change and it really doesn't matter what we do. Twenty years from now we'll be having the same discussion."
--------------------------

Unfortunately I also think that's true about many of those involved with the abduction phenomenon.
They seem more interested in the belief structures than the truth, whatever it may be.


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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #216 on: Jul 5th, 2014, 03:56am »

We cant blame anyone for what interests them now can we?I have an almost rabid interest in abduction,I once thought that this brought everything together.Yuppers I did.You see a ufo you wonder about it and then you read of abduction stories.Two and two make four. Thats the very reason there here thought I.To create a hybrid race of beings,part us and part them.I no longer believe that.It was much much simpler back then.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #217 on: Jul 8th, 2014, 04:07am »

Thatís like the kettle calling the pot black WU, you stick to your belief structure like glue trying to enforce your belief. Will it change over time I doubt it not because of belief but manipulation by those seeking monetary gain, power or fame? This attitude that everyone who suffers such as abduction should have in depth knowledge of science etc when trying to explain something they havenít a clue about and probably never will also does not help. We all assume too much and over-write the stories with our own thoughts and not the truth as we all like to believe.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #218 on: Jul 8th, 2014, 10:06am »

on Jul 8th, 2014, 04:07am, hyundisonata wrote:
Thatís like the kettle calling the pot black WU, you stick to your belief structure like glue trying to enforce your belief. Will it change over time I doubt it not because of belief but manipulation by those seeking monetary gain, power or fame? This attitude that everyone who suffers such as abduction should have in depth knowledge of science etc when trying to explain something they havenít a clue about and probably never will also does not help. We all assume too much and over-write the stories with our own thoughts and not the truth as we all like to believe.


I feel the need to correct you...once again.
I have no specific 'belief structure' regarding abductions or the ufo enigma except to say that I don't believe the ETH explains the enigma well enough to use that model exclusively.
And without science and other disciplines the 'abduction phenom' will remain lost in no man's land with cult ideas and not with rational investigation.

btw...in case you forgot the title of this thread is Critical Analysis of Research Alien Abductions. That certainly sounds like rational scientific thought to me. Something which is sorely lacking with many in the ufo community at large.
« Last Edit: Jul 8th, 2014, 10:08am by drwu23 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #219 on: Jul 8th, 2014, 12:11pm »

on Jun 28th, 2014, 3:19pm, drwu23 wrote:
You are still missing the point. He chooses not to interpret the data the same way as the 'believers' do.
Just because an abductee researcher, like Jacobs, thinks its aliens doesn't mean it is.
And it sounds to me like you are simply taking the side of the alien abduction believers because that's your side also. How is that objective and non biased and any less bashing?
huh

We need an objective look into the phenomenon without taking sides . As Vallee has said before there's a chance to do some good science here and perhaps discover something very important but all we get are amateurs with no real science background biased from the start and then writing books to support their own beliefs.
The fact is that neither Hopkins (now deceased) nor Jacobs ; the two foremost abduction researchers of the last 25 years, had any background in science, forensics, or investigation techniques. Hopkins was an abstract artist from New York and Jacobs a history prof from Temple University. I was fortunate enough to have met Hopkins once at a ufo seminar in Grand rapids MI, and he was a very nice man but he was not well versed in the ufo phenom over all and admitted he spent almost all of his time focusing on abductee interviews and their issues.

We need some seriously focused experts or the 'abduction phenom' will remain lost in the clouds.



Well speaking only for meself it was years and years of believing that this was aliens.I mean what else could it be? I believed this with all of my heart forever and ever.Then one night I was thinking and thinking its true that your head actually hurts.Then it struck me like little else ever has.Its not aliens from another planet at all.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #220 on: Jul 8th, 2014, 12:52pm »

on Jul 8th, 2014, 12:11pm, carolnistri wrote:
Well speaking only for meself it was years and years of believing that this was aliens.I mean what else could it be? I believed this with all of my heart forever and ever.Then one night I was thinking and thinking its true that your head actually hurts.Then it struck me like little else ever has.Its not aliens from another planet at all.


I don't completely rule out the possibility that some
ufo related events are ET but after years of reading and looking at the various reports the whole area is truly bizarre on several levels.
I have trouble thinking that any advanced alien race would travel all this way to just play around with humans, buzz our skies, and do some weird genetic abduction experiement . It just doesn't work for me.
I would contact the human race openly and have an exchange of ideas. Unless these aliens have no ethics at all and no interest in open dialogue with other sentient races , I can see no reason for the alleged actions over the years.
But I also have no concrete idea on what 'they' really are.
« Last Edit: Jul 8th, 2014, 12:53pm by drwu23 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #221 on: Jul 8th, 2014, 4:34pm »

Lol WU we will just have to beg to differ on that one, as for rational investigation how can you achieve such especially on boards such as this where every one is living the lie embedded with secrecy. If we cannot even attempt openness here then we havenít a hope in hell of getting to the truth as anything put forward by people anonymous cannot be verified.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #222 on: Jul 8th, 2014, 4:50pm »

on Jul 8th, 2014, 4:34pm, hyundisonata wrote:
Lol WU we will just have to beg to differ on that one, as for rational investigation how can you achieve such especially on boards such as this where every one is living the lie embedded with secrecy. If we cannot even attempt openness here then we havenít a hope in hell of getting to the truth as anything put forward by people anonymous cannot be verified.


Would you care to elaborate on how board member anonymity has anything to do with rational investigation of the ufo enigma in general? And what do you mean by living the lie embedded with secrecy? What openess would you like to see?
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #223 on: Jul 8th, 2014, 5:03pm »

DRWU ~ I MOST HUMBLY ASK THAT IF ANY MEMBER ELECTED TO WALK OUT INTO THIS STADIUM AND ANNOUNCE ~ I AM HERE ~ REFERENCING ONES UNKNOWN AERIAL OBSERAVATIONS ~ I ASK FOR YOU TO EXPLAIN IN LAYMANS TERMS AS TO THE BENEFIT TO YOU AND THE UFOLOGICAL COMMUNITY wink ~ RESPECTFULLY ~ NUDGIN THINGS ALONG HERE grin grin grin

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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #224 on: Jul 8th, 2014, 5:56pm »

Lol WU unlike your self I hide from no man that way I can be honest and speak my mind without fear, you on the other hand hide behind a veil of secrecy making demands like others visiting sites such as this living in fear. Now how can you expect governments or military to be truthful and transparent when you all cannot even accomplish such on a forum its just sheer hypocracy, face facts to get a proper in-depth investigation the only people that have the power to order such is the worlds governments but do you honestly believe they are taking notice of anonymous people making demands on forums. Break the chains guys itís not hard to do then you can be taken seriously on a very controversial subject as UFO and force transparent investigation, alas such will never happen as the established fear is well rooted and you will continue to shout your mouths off as long as you do not have to say who you are that way you avoid getting involved in reality safe in your cyber worlds lol and still expect to be taken seriously. Youíre an intelligent guy WU yet you still fall for the secrets game as they expect you to do then apply it to your own life, to get a transparent investigation establishing the truth for or against ET you your self have to be transparent, a simple case of practice what you preach.
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