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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abduction  (Read 53503 times)
carolnistri
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #285 on: Jul 28th, 2014, 10:59am »

BTW...I'd love to hear what Dr Vallee thinks about these bizarro theories and if the new direction of ufo research he is referring to on that radio show is one where everyone is batshit crazy.

Well Knowing Dr.Vallee he wont offer one iota if it includes anything negative about the person offering that bizarro theory.Weve got to got to keep an open mind,the whole subject matter of UFOs is bizzare,for all we know weve heard the truth about whats happening and because it doesnt fulfill us with the things we know or think we know ,oh I dont know.I liked my mood much better when I got up this morning.
« Last Edit: Jul 28th, 2014, 12:12pm by carolnistri » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #286 on: Jul 28th, 2014, 1:01pm »

on Jul 28th, 2014, 09:59am, carolnistri wrote:
LOL! Now you know that my own opinion of whats going on has changed,so I believe that Demons are
taking full advantage of men like Oldtimer,btw lets hope together that Dan heard Vallee last night,I could just spit at having missed him.



Well...I answered the way I did because that seems to be what OT believes.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #287 on: Aug 1st, 2014, 7:31pm »

Whatever Happened to Alien Abductions?

By Nick Pope via UFO Digest

August 1, 2014

In the late Eighties and throughout the Nineties, alien abductions were at the heart of ufology. How did what might be regarded as a subset of ufology become its central meme? Abductions (irrespective of whether one believes they take place in a literal sense) could arguably be regarded as an evolution of the contactee phenomenon, and for those who believe UFOs are extraterrestrial spacecraft, it’s only logical that one should look beyond the vehicles and focus on the nature and agenda of the occupants.

[...]

All this time, abductions were the central focus for much of the UFO community, and the three charismatic figures of Budd Hopkins, David Jacobs and John Mack were at the heart of things.

[...]

Now let’s fast forward to 2014. One hears comparatively little about alien abductions, even within the UFO community, where the main current areas of interest are government cover-ups, ‘Disclosure’, secret space program/‘breakaway civilization’, the Rendlesham Forest incident, and – perhaps most prominently of all – the resurgence of the ancient astronaut/ancient aliens hypothesis. What’s going on?

[...]

What other factors could explain the lack of coverage and (apparent) lack of interest in abductions? One cannot overstate the influence of individuals when it comes to driving the agenda in a subject, whether they do so deliberately or not. Simply put, Budd Hopkins, David Jacobs and John Mack played a huge role in putting abductions centre stage within ufology, and now that Hopkins and Mack are both dead, the greater part of that impetus is gone. This is in no way meant to disparage the work of other ufologists and abductees, or downplay the continuing influence of writers such as Whitley Strieber, but there’s no getting away from the fact that the deaths of Hopkins and Mack dealt a hefty blow to abduction research.

There have been other assaults on the validity of abductions and the credibility of both abduction researchers and abductees. The debate over whether regression hypnosis can recover hidden memories, distort existing ones or even implant false ones was the first shot across the bows. Concerns about using regression hypnosis on abductees segued into wider concerns about the propriety of ufologists dealing with abductees. This was essentially a therapist/patient relationship in a situation where some of the people claiming abduction experiences (real or not) were extremely vulnerable. Were abduction researchers suitably qualified or otherwise equipped to deal with such people in a professional and ethical way? The allegations made by “Emma Woods” against David Jacobs brought that debate into focus, as did the criticisms made by filmmaker Carol Rainey regarding her former husband, Budd Hopkins. The recent arrest of self-described abductee Stan Romanek on charges of possessing and distributing child pornography may turn out to be the final nail in the coffin.

Alien abduction may be down, but it isn’t altogether out. Travis Walton remains popular on the conference circuit and hopes to see a remake of “Fire in the Sky”. Researchers such as Yvonne Smith continue to fly the flag for the subject, while this month’s “Contact in the Desert” conference in Joshua Tree has a panel discussion on the “contact experience”. This latter point is particularly noteworthy, because it seems that we’ve gone from contactees to abductees and now back to contactees – the more neutral term “experiencers” is sometimes used, but that’s another story.

In all of this, here’s the key question about the apparent rise and fall of alien abductions: does it tell us something about the true nature of the UFO phenomenon, or does it tell us just as much – and maybe even more – about ufology and ufologists?

Full article:

http://ufodigest.com/article/alien-abductions-0801
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #288 on: Aug 3rd, 2014, 04:39am »

What an excellent article,even tho Pope wrote it, wink
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #289 on: Aug 3rd, 2014, 2:24pm »

Pope is right. We have nothing new about this topic, the same goes for close encounters. I think it has something to do with our technological advance here. Since it's easier to fake that kind of stuff, people are taking it less seriously, and of course, the number of hoaxes increased.

Who knows? Maybe the researchers were just wrong? Maybe only 1 or 2 patients were abducted? Or maybe not? Maybe they just failed with their projects? Who knows...
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #290 on: Aug 3rd, 2014, 3:26pm »

Hi, guys. I thought Pope made some valid points.

Whether or not we all agree on the nature of the actions of Woods and Rainey, an extremely relevant point remains: The circumstances documented in their material have no reasonable defense.

I also think there is another point that is very important yet omitted from Pope's considerations. A lot of the abduction narrative that was pushed upon us has become testable by advances made in forensics. The trail went cold for Jacobs' hybrids as the public became increasingly educated on the relevance of genetic testing.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #291 on: Aug 3rd, 2014, 4:38pm »

JJ,

I HAVE AN ALL TO CURIOUS CONSIDERATION FOR YOU ~ AND THAT IS ~ IN LIEU OF EXORCISMS/DEMONIC/DAIMONIC AND THE ALIEN QUESTION/MYSTERY ~ YA THINK THE PAPACY HAS A METHOD OF DIFFERENTIATION (SINCE THEY CLEARLY HAVE RECORDS ON THE AFOREMENTIONED AND ACKNOWLEDGE THE LATTER) BETWEEN THE TWO OR WOULD THEY BE LUMPED UNDER ONE HEADING? ~ OR WOULD THE RELIGIOUS PRETEXT OVERIDE ANY CONSIDERATION FOR THE AFOREMENTIONED

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« Last Edit: Aug 3rd, 2014, 6:00pm by ZETAR » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #292 on: Aug 4th, 2014, 12:44pm »

on Aug 3rd, 2014, 4:38pm, ZETAR wrote:
JJ,

I HAVE AN ALL TO CURIOUS CONSIDERATION FOR YOU ~ AND THAT IS ~ IN LIEU OF EXORCISMS/DEMONIC/DAIMONIC AND THE ALIEN QUESTION/MYSTERY ~ YA THINK THE PAPACY HAS A METHOD OF DIFFERENTIATION (SINCE THEY CLEARLY HAVE RECORDS ON THE AFOREMENTIONED AND ACKNOWLEDGE THE LATTER) BETWEEN THE TWO OR WOULD THEY BE LUMPED UNDER ONE HEADING? ~ OR WOULD THE RELIGIOUS PRETEXT OVERIDE ANY CONSIDERATION FOR THE AFOREMENTIONED


Ha - that's an intriguing line of thought. I wouldn't know why the office of the Pope would take certain stances on such issues, but suffice it to say I wouldn't think that accuracy and discerning objective reality would be at the top of the list of priorities, fine and awe inspiring religion as it may be.

On the subject in general, I'd say it depends on who you ask. It would sure appear that, at least sometimes, the difference between a haunted house and an alien infestation is whether the home owner called TAPS or MUFON.

I strongly suspect that such circumstances do nothing to help us further understand what may be taking place in what we might term situations of interest. Actually, I'm quite sure the bias of the 'investigator' is extremely detrimental at times.

What do you think, ZETAR?
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #293 on: Aug 4th, 2014, 2:24pm »

on Aug 1st, 2014, 7:31pm, jjflash wrote:
Whatever Happened to Alien Abductions?

By Nick Pope via UFO Digest

August 1, 2014

In the late Eighties and throughout the Nineties, alien abductions were at the heart of ufology. How did what might be regarded as a subset of ufology become its central meme? Abductions (irrespective of whether one believes they take place in a literal sense) could arguably be regarded as an evolution of the contactee phenomenon, and for those who believe UFOs are extraterrestrial spacecraft, it’s only logical that one should look beyond the vehicles and focus on the nature and agenda of the occupants.

[...]

All this time, abductions were the central focus for much of the UFO community, and the three charismatic figures of Budd Hopkins, David Jacobs and John Mack were at the heart of things.

[...]

Now let’s fast forward to 2014. One hears comparatively little about alien abductions, even within the UFO community, where the main current areas of interest are government cover-ups, ‘Disclosure’, secret space program/‘breakaway civilization’, the Rendlesham Forest incident, and – perhaps most prominently of all – the resurgence of the ancient astronaut/ancient aliens hypothesis. What’s going on?

[...]

What other factors could explain the lack of coverage and (apparent) lack of interest in abductions? One cannot overstate the influence of individuals when it comes to driving the agenda in a subject, whether they do so deliberately or not. Simply put, Budd Hopkins, David Jacobs and John Mack played a huge role in putting abductions centre stage within ufology, and now that Hopkins and Mack are both dead, the greater part of that impetus is gone. This is in no way meant to disparage the work of other ufologists and abductees, or downplay the continuing influence of writers such as Whitley Strieber, but there’s no getting away from the fact that the deaths of Hopkins and Mack dealt a hefty blow to abduction research.

There have been other assaults on the validity of abductions and the credibility of both abduction researchers and abductees. The debate over whether regression hypnosis can recover hidden memories, distort existing ones or even implant false ones was the first shot across the bows. Concerns about using regression hypnosis on abductees segued into wider concerns about the propriety of ufologists dealing with abductees. This was essentially a therapist/patient relationship in a situation where some of the people claiming abduction experiences (real or not) were extremely vulnerable. Were abduction researchers suitably qualified or otherwise equipped to deal with such people in a professional and ethical way? The allegations made by “Emma Woods” against David Jacobs brought that debate into focus, as did the criticisms made by filmmaker Carol Rainey regarding her former husband, Budd Hopkins. The recent arrest of self-described abductee Stan Romanek on charges of possessing and distributing child pornography may turn out to be the final nail in the coffin.

Alien abduction may be down, but it isn’t altogether out. Travis Walton remains popular on the conference circuit and hopes to see a remake of “Fire in the Sky”. Researchers such as Yvonne Smith continue to fly the flag for the subject, while this month’s “Contact in the Desert” conference in Joshua Tree has a panel discussion on the “contact experience”. This latter point is particularly noteworthy, because it seems that we’ve gone from contactees to abductees and now back to contactees – the more neutral term “experiencers” is sometimes used, but that’s another story.

In all of this, here’s the key question about the apparent rise and fall of alien abductions: does it tell us something about the true nature of the UFO phenomenon, or does it tell us just as much – and maybe even more – about ufology and ufologists?

Full article:

http://ufodigest.com/article/alien-abductions-0801


I would only disagree with Pope on the lack of interest in abductions. There's no question there's been an increase in UFO related television shows. Some have focused on abductions. Personally I think abductions are the most interesting part of Ufology. Tales of abductions are either real or a lie...no gray area unless you want to consider it a dream.

Everything else falls into a questionable area. Most either wind a story around a conspiracy or theories. Even photo's and video's are subjected to great skepticism with just cause. The only thing that is hard to debunk are personal experiences. I don't think abductions no longer happen, I think abductees are just keeping quiet. Personally I don't blame them I would too.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #294 on: Aug 4th, 2014, 3:04pm »

I have no doubt that people continue to have 'alien abduction' experiences. They may be less forthcoming about them these days.
For me the question has always been are these truly 'alien' in origin or some other phenomenon(a).
I have never met anyone in person who claimed such an experience and had the chance to discuss it with them, but I don't doubt the sincerity of most (not all..) who have had these strange experiences.

I suspect that when we do discover the 'truth' it probably won't lead us to 'outer space aliens' as the culprits but it's certainly a possibility.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #295 on: Aug 4th, 2014, 3:57pm »

on Aug 4th, 2014, 2:24pm, GForce wrote:
I don't think abductions no longer happen, I think abductees are just keeping quiet. Personally I don't blame them I would too.


I think that's a point that deserves to be on the table. I additionally think we can look to the same places as sources of the problem as we have been considering: Hopkins, Jacobs and self-described experts that scrupulously resisted peer review and constructive criticism. In short, some of the most dogmatic 'researchers' have consistently labeled all others who demonstrated an interest in the subject as ill informed and incompetent, and it's now taking a toll.

When Rutgers sociologist Ted Goertzel presented Jacobs with assessments made by the late historian and self-described abductee and MILAB Dr. Karla Turner, who suggested Jacobs selectively omits data from his assessments, Jacobs dismissed Turner as an irresponsible member of the UFO fringe. He said the same about George Hansen when Goertzel confronted Jacobs about Hansen's concerns about certain situations. It is well known that Hopkins failed to collaborate with others for years, including resisting inquiries from advisors of the very organization he founded himself, the Intruders Foundation.

If a newer generation of experiencers have opted out of such circumstances, I would only see that as a good thing. Being manipulated and exploited into a chapter of a book should not be preferred over obtaining accurate and honest info.

People shouldn't settle for having others come along and try to tell them what happened to them. I support them not putting up with it, and, from that point of view, GForce, I agree your point deserves consideration. It's no more valid to try to impose ideas of alien abduction on people than it is to tell them they imagined it all.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #296 on: Aug 4th, 2014, 7:07pm »

JACK,

ALWAYS A WELL SEASONED ~ ASTUTE ~ RESPONSE! wink

I GATHER THE INNER LAYERS OF THIS COSMIC MIRAGE grin HAS A GRASP ON VARIOUS ASPECTS (REAL/PERCEIVED) ~ IMHO ~ YEAH ~ I PONDER WHAT THE PAPACY MAY HAVE SEQUESTED OVER THE YEARS ~ wink

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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #297 on: Aug 4th, 2014, 8:28pm »

on Aug 4th, 2014, 7:07pm, ZETAR wrote:
JACK,

ALWAYS A WELL SEASONED ~ ASTUTE ~ RESPONSE! wink

I GATHER THE INNER LAYERS OF THIS COSMIC MIRAGE grin HAS A GRASP ON VARIOUS ASPECTS (REAL/PERCEIVED) ~ IMHO ~ YEAH ~ I PONDER WHAT THE PAPACY MAY HAVE SEQUESTED OVER THE YEARS ~ wink


Thanks, Z. I think you bring up another point that deserves its share of consideration: If the so-called disclosure activists were sincere, there are a lot of places they could direct their efforts in addition to the US federal government.

But they leave such orgs out of the mix as Bigelow/BAASS, MUFON, the stories surrounding talk of vaults and such at the Vatican, Greer, Jacobs and Lamb (that claim to have access to walking, talking hybrids), Streiber (who says he's got an alien implant in his ear) etc., etc., etc., while going after the White House that doesn't even claim to be interested. I'm by no means suggesting Greer, Lamb et al actually have access to any of the evidence they claim, but my point is that for disclosure activists to badger the feds while giving everyone else a free pass suggests a lack of sincerity on behalf of all involved.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #298 on: Aug 5th, 2014, 1:48pm »

on Aug 4th, 2014, 8:28pm, jjflash wrote:
Thanks, Z. I think you bring up another point that deserves its share of consideration: If the so-called disclosure activists were sincere, there are a lot of places they could direct their efforts in addition to the US federal government.

But they leave such orgs out of the mix as Bigelow/BAASS, MUFON, the stories surrounding talk of vaults and such at the Vatican, Greer, Jacobs and Lamb (that claim to have access to walking, talking hybrids), Streiber (who says he's got an alien implant in his ear) etc., etc., etc., while going after the White House that doesn't even claim to be interested. I'm by no means suggesting Greer, Lamb et al actually have access to any of the evidence they claim, but my point is that for disclosure activists to badger the feds while giving everyone else a free pass suggests a lack of sincerity on behalf of all involved.


Along those lines:

on Aug 5th, 2014, 12:13am, jjflash wrote:
[Sheehan], Cameron, Bassett and similar ETH advocates will be featured at an event in Toronto at the end of this month. It's affiliated with UFOContact.com, an outfit that sells an app for making contact with ET, among other purported functions. The website does not provide clear info about conference organizers or funding entities, but does offer an email address for media inquiries.

The upcoming retreat will include workshops and contact experiences with ET - if it doesn't rain. I kid you not:

http://ufocontact.com/retreat/

We see the focus to be on the explanations and role of the consciousness connection to what we know as ET or inter-dimensionals; raising our awareness of the essential nature of paradigm world view issues; and the exploration of different methods to create effective ET contact. Your resident retreat package includes 2 or 3 night accommodation, all meals and snacks, all seminars, workshops and weather permitting creating Human Initiated Contact Experiences under the Canadian skies! Non resident packages include all meals, seminars, workshops and evening contact sessions!


I submit for consideration that the perennially discussed UFO cover-up is, in actuality, actively being conducted by members of the UFO community, at least as much as it is currently being carried out by the US government. It is being conducted by self-proclaimed experts who find it quite advantageous to cultivate a never-ending mystery surrounding alleged aliens.

What are they concealing? That the reported experiences are being manipulated and molded to conform to their preferred ETH, when, in reality, people report a wide variety of phenomena that is in no way, shape or form explained by such an overly simplistic possibility. Also, there are a number of explanations that most certainly apply to a high percentage of the reported cases, but are ignored in pursuit of mystery mongering. The smaller percentage of interesting cases that may remain are of little to no value to the mystery mongers, as they appear to have no motives whatsoever to actually investigate the circumstances in reasonable manners.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #299 on: Aug 5th, 2014, 5:12pm »

JJ,

INDEED, OFTEN THERE HAS BEEN THIS "DOUBLE/TRIPLE STANDARD" WITH SOME ~ NOT ALL ~ NEVERTHELESS, IT'S ALWAYS UP TO THE "INDIVIDUAL" TO DO HIS/HER RESEARCH TO ATTEMPT AT DRAWING AN INFORMED CONCLUSION/ANALYSIS ~ IMHO

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