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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abduction  (Read 48007 times)
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #30 on: May 30th, 2013, 2:56pm »

on May 30th, 2013, 01:45am, hyundisonata wrote:
The difference being Skizicks is that both instances would be fully investigated by a competent body but when it comes to ET this does not happen so all we are left with is the story’s unless the abductee manages to get ETs head on a plate. Here in the UK even the police are ignored when it comes to ET so what chance does the average person on the street have apart from such as Greer or Nick Pope who we all know are only in it for the cash. About the only reliable evidence to prove or come close to proving abduction is genuine lies buried in the police archives regarding this case, http://www.factfictionandconjecture.ca/files/robert_taylor.html
This abduction was fully investigated by the police and forensic samples where taken, now due to advances in science and technology and as this evidence should still be available why the hell has no one reopened this case, who is blocking such from being brought into the public eye. It’s not all cut and dry and we could demand this and that until the cows come home but until the government get off their fat bums and launch an open investigation then anything else is pointless and worthless apart from telling a good story in the hope some people will start to listen.


Great Case, I recall reading about it before, so he had 20 minutes of missing time? Too bad he did not undergo hypnosis.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #31 on: May 31st, 2013, 02:55am »

We hear people on here screaming for scientific investigation yet here we have a case that was investigated under strict criminal investigatory rules buy competent investigators, samples of clothing, medical evidence, samples and photographic evidence taken of the abduction site by forensic experts of that era close to the time of the incident yet it is ignored by those demanding proof. The evidence is there so why do they not follow up on this as it could answer a lot of questions scientifically as it was investigated as an UFO incident and correct me if I am wrong but are forensic experts not scientists.
There again we could just ask Nick Pope for the truth as no doubt the MOD would have been watching this with a beady eye , but again trying to get the truth from this man is like getting blood from a stone.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #32 on: May 31st, 2013, 03:11am »

Here is a little fact that is remotely connected to this case, I had the chief of the fire arms division and his colleagues along with an SNP politician in my home when they were planning to set night cameras etc on my land to catch the panther on film and they brought up the subject of UFO and the politician commented that since this incent with the forestry worker people had been leaving the area in droves as the UFO scenario was getting too much to handle. Now you have to understand these people are not interested in such and the normal talk is about sheep and weather and he was genuinely worried about this. I never let on that I investigate such but to me it indicated that it was a concern for the government and no doubt the MOD as someone high up pulled the plug on the investigation of the panther and stopped the use of the cameras that had night vision etc. this case of the forestry worker has to be the Achilles heel of all UFO incidents due to the in-depth investigation that took place.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #33 on: May 31st, 2013, 3:21pm »

on May 31st, 2013, 03:11am, hyundisonata wrote:
Here is a little fact that is remotely connected to this case, I had the chief of the fire arms division and his colleagues along with an SNP politician in my home when they were planning to set night cameras etc on my land to catch the panther on film and they brought up the subject of UFO and the politician commented that since this incent with the forestry worker people had been leaving the area in droves as the UFO scenario was getting too much to handle. Now you have to understand these people are not interested in such and the normal talk is about sheep and weather and he was genuinely worried about this. I never let on that I investigate such but to me it indicated that it was a concern for the government and no doubt the MOD as someone high up pulled the plug on the investigation of the panther and stopped the use of the cameras that had night vision etc. this case of the forestry worker has to be the Achilles heel of all UFO incidents due to the in-depth investigation that took place.


That is interesting...
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #34 on: Jun 1st, 2013, 11:57am »

on May 28th, 2013, 6:26pm, jjflash wrote:
It was never my intent to offer or clarify any such method, purr. My article addressed unscrupulous research misrepresented as scientific investigation. It is not my responsibility to analyze anyone's claims or design related research methodology, but the responsibilities of researchers claiming to conduct scientific investigations to do so.

Concerning your interests, however, purr, you might choose to locate some of the comments and material published by microbiologist Dr. Tyler Kokjohn. He has repeatedly explained manners potential DNA evidence could be collected and analyzed in very practical and affordable manners. If literal aliens are interacting with people, much less impregnating them and such, obtaining evidence thereof would be relatively simple at this point in the evolution of human technology and forensic capabilities. He has written and commented about that on several sites, including my blogs, where there are also videos explaining such. You or others might also find Dr. Kokjohn's recent podcast discussion on Binnall of America of interest. The doctor discussed at length how scientific investigation could be applied to ufology, as well as several other topics of potential interest. I hope that is helpful.


I feel a bit disappointed, Jjflash, about you having no intention to "offer" or "clarify" a 'fleshed out', ah.. actually applicable version of the scientific method, specific to Abduction. Especially in view of (your position) Ufologists (like David Jacobs) conducting unscientific and harmful research, and there's now a right and proper, Scientific alternative for researching/understanding abduction claims.

"New developments in DNA sequencing technology and biotechnology now enable direct testing of claims regarding modifications to the human genome, involuntary alien initiated and terminated pregnancies, and acquisition of disease resistance."
Quoting Professor Tyler Kokjohn

Prof Kokjohn elaborated slightly, detailing how fetal cells live on for decades after a pregnancy, in the mother's body. Indeed presumably allowing for samples collected from female abductees, possibly including the DNA sequence of any children carried or delivered. Jj, I read all the articles by/referring to Kokjohn you linked. He reports on state-of-the-art DNA investigation. But no bridge to alien research is made: collected samples may be compared to a pre-existing DNA database, including the Human Genome, so we might establish either the absence of genes from Earth lifeforms, and even from individual human beings. OR, as used in criminal investigation, we find a certain human person left DNA trace, they 'WERE HERE'.

Not to immense surprise, Professor Kokjohn fails to provide a baseline for detecting a DNA based ET. (The complete genome of an alien species, but even a gen marker would be nice to compare with!) No baseline for establishing pure, unaltered, human genes, without health/immune system related modifications, without the presence of genetic hybridization. My lack of surprise is of course due to information on alien genomes (if existing) not being in the public realm. We don't know what an alien DNA sequence is. Nor do we have a date for when a hypothetical extraterrestrial-human hybridization 'program' was initiated. Consider these various theoretical starting moments: when the investigated abductee was taken / late 1940s / centuries ago / millennia ago / < 11,000 years Before Present (=duration of human history) / 200,000 years BP (time of modern man) / millions of yrs BP (competition between multiple pre-human hominids). Each of these dates for first genetic tampering by aliens would deliver dramatically different outcomes for separating out pure/original earthly, Human DNA from foreign changes. Taken back long enough, the human genome of course will more equal/closely resemble the so called ET genome. (And there's still the possibility of non-DNA alien lifeforms.)

The prof doesn't explain how he can establish as scientific fact the presence or absence of alien alterations without possessing genetic baselines for them. Perhaps if UFOlogists hold off on this experiment, and female abductees aren't lining up for invasive procedures probing for ancient fetal matter, it is because the research is unfinished. Collecting ET DNA isn't quite a science yet.


on May 28th, 2013, 6:26pm, jjflash wrote:
I did not write “human rights being violated of abductees.” I wrote that I was appalled at the way abductees were treated by people claiming to be helpful. I then wrote, “That led to my interests in human rights violations concerning human research subjects.”


Well, by associating the bad treatment of abductees with your ensuing interest in human rights violations, you appeared to insinuate as much. I simply wished to make clear abductee maltreatment concerned mainly Medical Ethics, and that you have proven it in only one case, Woods/Jacobs.


on May 28th, 2013, 6:26pm, jjflash wrote:
My interest in such ufology cases as Woods and Haley dovetailed with my interest in the intelligence community. The extents the two communities mirror one another in their uses and explorations of hypnosis causes them to be virtually indistinguishable at times. Similar lines of interest could grow out of events surrounding Mark Schwartz and Castlewood Treatment Center, a saga I would highly recommend those check out with interests in hypnosis, false memories, exploitation of vulnerable demographics and similar such subject matter.


We agree in principle about the risk of exploitation, and about potential harm to experiencers due to lack of training/credentials of self-acclaimed Abduction experts. But I am eagerly awaiting main stream scientists directly inviting abductees in for high quality care and research. Abduction research has turned into the Wild West BECAUSE many proper scientists wouldn't touch this stuff with a ten foot pole.


on May 28th, 2013, 6:26pm, jjflash wrote:
Qualified experts disagree. The recent work on Ata contributed by Dr. Nolan demonstrated such capabilities. Similarly, Dr. Kokjohn indicated DNA evidence collection in cases of alleged alien abduction is not only possible, but the funding requirements have largely been misrepresented as more costly than is actually true. Dr. Kokjohn's related comments can be viewed at such links as Science versus sensationalism, part 3 of 4: A possible dead alien, as well as the fourth part in the series, Aliens and evidence. He also recently authored Science Catches Up With Ufology: The Unexamined Hypothesis, explaining how researchers such as David Jacobs, Barbara Lamb and Delores Cannon now have opportunities to extensively test their yet unsubstantiated hypotheses of ET-human hybrid breeding programs, if they desire to do so.


I fully appreciate the capability to collect genetic sample. But as I argued previously, establishing ET presence (or absence) is still very much OUT THERE.


on May 28th, 2013, 6:26pm, jjflash wrote:
My personal opinion, purr, if helpful to know, is that there may very well be something of interest at the core of reported high strangeness. I am confident, however, that exploitation of vulnerable individuals and misrepresentation of what may actually be taking place is harmful from many perspectives; I am confident the UFO community has largely been duped by a number of people with a number of deceptive agendas. I am of the opinion that it has gone on to such an extent that those among us who promote careful fact checking and critical thinking are quickly and incorrectly labeled unreasonable debunkers. I think that evolved to be the prevailing culture because critical thinking is the nemesis of the deceivers, and, as stated in the article, the less educated and poorly informed are targeted for exploitation. The resulting dynamics are often not conducive to revealing or discussing actuality.


I am given to understand there's even something of interest at the core of the vacuum of space, Jjflash. Big question still is whether abductees really are taken by Visitors. You are no debunker but posing hard questions imo.


on May 28th, 2013, 6:26pm, jjflash wrote:
That's a reasonable perspective. I would agree that mental health professionals have a great deal to contribute to ufology. The reported abduction-experiences in themselves are frequently described as traumatic, and treatment would therefore logically apply. A reasonable perspective on the situation might include that people who disagree either fail to understand or underestimate the significance of the symptoms of emotional traumata, which, some will recall, I identified as, in my opinion, among the most relevant and least understood aspects of the abduction phenom.


On the much needed availability of mental health professionals to abductees we already agree. But a vital caveat imo remains. Some abduction experiencers will not ask for such help, they will 'disagree' (perhaps because they were not traumatized, or feel uncomfortable with 'shrinks' cheesy whatever) and in those cases I feel it should not be imposed. Respect for the individual and their needs must be paramount.


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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #35 on: Jun 1st, 2013, 1:32pm »

Jj, here's back to basics with regard to using DNA forensic evidence, what we can prove (delineated from what as yet cannot be proven).

Forensic Science utilises the properties of DNA in several ways. The adage “every contact leaves a trace” indicates the importance of a technique able to type trace amounts of genetic material left during the commission of a crime.

Hairs or saliva left on a balaclava worn during a robbery, semen located at a rape scene, blood collected from an assault, perspiration on clothing, traces of assailant’s skin under a victim’s fingernails, can often be DNA profiled. This genetic information can then be used to include or exclude suspects as being the source of the genetic material.

It is not yet possible to test the whole of an individual’s DNA. Forensic analysis involves the testing of regions of an individuals DNA.

Databases have been compiled which list the abundance of a particular fragment of DNA in the population. From this information, an estimate of the abundance of combinations of DNA at several regions can be made and compared to the DNA of victims or suspects. In this way, an individual can be included or excluded as a possible source of DNA found in relation to a criminal investigation. Statistical interpretation of the information can be made to estimate the likelihood of material coming from a particular individual relative to coming from a random member of the population.

Source

Best not to assume the basics are in the forefronts of all our minds smiley hence this link.


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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #36 on: Jun 1st, 2013, 3:13pm »

on Jun 1st, 2013, 11:57am, purr wrote:
The prof [Kokjohn] doesn't explain how he can establish as scientific fact the presence or absence of alien alterations without possessing genetic baselines for them... Collecting ET DNA isn't quite a science yet.


Right, purr, and that is a large part of my point in critically reviewing research of alleged alien abduction. It is the responsibility of Jacobs to present conclusive and scientific evidence for his extraordinary assertions, particularly since he claimed to be dedicated to the scientific process.

If forum members and members of the UFO community at large desire to express their frustrations over the lack of sound scientific research methodologies and the lack of conclusive evidence, I think they should direct such expressions at Jacobs, Lamb and those claiming to conduct such research and possess such fantastic evidence. Those of us asking the relevant and proper questions are neither the problem nor responsible for it.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #37 on: Jun 1st, 2013, 5:08pm »

on Jun 1st, 2013, 3:13pm, jjflash wrote:
Right, purr, and that is a large part of my point in critically reviewing research of alleged alien abduction. It is the responsibility of Jacobs to present conclusive and scientific evidence for his extraordinary assertions, particularly since he claimed to be dedicated to the scientific process.

If forum members and members of the UFO community at large desire to express their frustrations over the lack of sound scientific research methodologies and the lack of conclusive evidence, I think they should direct such expressions at Jacobs, Lamb and those claiming to conduct such research and possess such fantastic evidence. Those of us asking the relevant and proper questions are neither the problem nor responsible for it.


As it happens I stand relatively neutral to the UFOlogists you named in a critical manner. But how can the thrust of criticism be that they negligently spurned scientific method, including prof Kokjohn's genetic sampling and testing procedures, if his own claims omit the factual basis (=alien DNA sequences to compare against) for scientifically establishing the presence or absence of ET gene traces?

Although I agree critical questioners, such as yourself, don't carry blame or responsibility for any errors in method/practice of UFOlogists, Regression Therapists, Cultists and the like, once you post (a text about) a superior alternative method for researching and helping abductees, you ought to check it for practicality and completeness.

Tyler Kokjohn's proposed DNA testing for alien abductees does not yet work, simply because it has ONLY human, and earthly DNA information to compare against. Can't establish alien DNA present, alien tampering with genes, or zero alien interference without base lines for COMPARISON of FACTUAL markers/patterns belonging to Visitors. At best the outcome would be academically formulated guesses.

I suspect that for now the 'alternative' on offer to UFOlogists of applying the scientific method to abduction is an impractical hypothesis. Abduction comes to us mainly as heartfelt testimony, requiring attentive listeners. Professor Kokjohn's claims extend well beyond his evidence (at least the parts I read), and for abductees / researchers to start using DNA tests as tool to verify ET's presence would be premature. Again in my humble opinion.


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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #38 on: Jun 1st, 2013, 5:11pm »

on May 31st, 2013, 02:55am, hyundisonata wrote:
We hear people on here screaming for scientific investigation yet here we have a case that was investigated under strict criminal investigatory rules buy competent investigators, samples of clothing, medical evidence, samples and photographic evidence taken of the abduction site by forensic experts of that era close to the time of the incident yet it is ignored by those demanding proof. The evidence is there so why do they not follow up on this as it could answer a lot of questions scientifically as it was investigated as an UFO incident and correct me if I am wrong but are forensic experts not scientists.
There again we could just ask Nick Pope for the truth as no doubt the MOD would have been watching this with a beady eye , but again trying to get the truth from this man is like getting blood from a stone.


I understand that you're trying to make a "point" in this post, but the use of hyperbole to mischaracterize and exaggerate the activity of other members on this forum ("We hear people on here screaming for scientific investigation"), and then misrepresenting the behavior of other people through the use of rhetoric ("...medical evidence, samples and photographic evidence taken of the abduction site by forensic experts of that era close to the time of the incident yet it is ignored by those demanding proof...") doesn't remotely address the topic introduced by the original poster.

No one is "ignoring proof," hyundisonata. I would love to see any existing physical evidence subjected to the most exhaustive scrutiny possible. If it's out there, let's look at it!
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #39 on: Jun 1st, 2013, 6:57pm »

on Jun 1st, 2013, 5:08pm, purr wrote:
As it happens I stand relatively neutral to the UFOlogists you named in a critical manner. But how can the thrust of criticism be that they negligently spurned scientific method, including prof Kokjohn's genetic sampling and testing procedures, if his own claims omit the factual basis (=alien DNA sequences to compare against) for scientifically establishing the presence or absence of ET gene traces?


Let's look at some specific circumstances. In an interview conducted in April of 2012 at the Ozark UFO Conference, Dr. Jacobs made some absolutely extraordinary assertions. In The Bizarre World of Doctor David Jacobs: An Interview and Review, his statements are presented. Among them were numerous claims which could not possibly be either known or confirmed without extensive research. Included in Jacobs' remarks about aliens, hybrids and their breeding programs among humans, were the statements to the effect that hybrids are now virtually exactly identical to humans other than sleep cycle and their abilities to control others.

In his bio for that very Ozark Conference, Jacobs asserted to be a devotee of the scientific method of research, as he states on his website and in other bios. I assert that someone cannot possibly be committed to the principles of scientific investigation who purports to know the physiological and mental attributes of an extraterrestrial species that has not yet been so much as demonstrated to exist. That is simply not science, no matter what Jacobs calls it, who can be incorrectly led to believe it or who he can get to make excuses for it.

Simlarly, Barbara Lamb has repeatedly set forth that she personally knows a number of ET-human hybrid beings. She was asked (Barbara Lamb and MUFON: 'ET-human hybrids: They are real and they are here') to be specific about what would lead her to make such remarks, and to clarify what, if any, medical exams had been conducted. The woman replied, in so many words, that she was too busy to organize the data which would conclusively reveal such astounding circumstances to the rest of the world.

MUFON, an organization purporting to be dedicated to scientific research, promoted Lamb and her claims, as it continues to do for Jacobs. MUFON, and specifically member of the board of directors Jan Harzan, was asked repeatedly to provide comment on how the organization could claim to be a scientific research organization yet jointly partake in such activities with Lamb. Harzan never responded.

Concerning Dr. Kokjohn, he is a qualified expert and a professional scientist. I therefore accept his opinions as put forth in his article, The Unexamined Hypothesis, and moreover, I agree with him and others that the scientific process dictates seeking corroboration of such fantastic claims as being made by Jacobs, Lamb and, indirectly, MUFON.

Basically, it all comes down to put up or shut up. I think that is particularly the case among self-described researchers claiming to be conducting scientific investigation.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #40 on: Jun 2nd, 2013, 12:46pm »

on Jun 1st, 2013, 6:57pm, jjflash wrote:
Let's look at some specific circumstances. In an interview conducted in April of 2012 at the Ozark UFO Conference, Dr. Jacobs made some absolutely extraordinary assertions. In The Bizarre World of Doctor David Jacobs: An Interview and Review, his statements are presented. Among them were numerous claims which could not possibly be either known or confirmed without extensive research. Included in Jacobs' remarks about aliens, hybrids and their breeding programs among humans, were the statements to the effect that hybrids are now virtually exactly identical to humans other than sleep cycle and their abilities to control others.

In his bio for that very Ozark Conference, Jacobs asserted to be a devotee of the scientific method of research, as he states on his website and in other bios. I assert that someone cannot possibly be committed to the principles of scientific investigation who purports to know the physiological and mental attributes of an extraterrestrial species that has not yet been so much as demonstrated to exist. That is simply not science, no matter what Jacobs calls it, who can be incorrectly led to believe it or who he can get to make excuses for it.

Simlarly, Barbara Lamb has repeatedly set forth that she personally knows a number of ET-human hybrid beings. She was asked (Barbara Lamb and MUFON: 'ET-human hybrids: They are real and they are here') to be specific about what would lead her to make such remarks, and to clarify what, if any, medical exams had been conducted. The woman replied, in so many words, that she was too busy to organize the data which would conclusively reveal such astounding circumstances to the rest of the world.

MUFON, an organization purporting to be dedicated to scientific research, promoted Lamb and her claims, as it continues to do for Jacobs. MUFON, and specifically member of the board of directors Jan Harzan, was asked repeatedly to provide comment on how the organization could claim to be a scientific research organization yet jointly partake in such activities with Lamb. Harzan never responded.

Concerning Dr. Kokjohn, he is a qualified expert and a professional scientist. I therefore accept his opinions as put forth in his article, The Unexamined Hypothesis, and moreover, I agree with him and others that the scientific process dictates seeking corroboration of such fantastic claims as being made by Jacobs, Lamb and, indirectly, MUFON.

Basically, it all comes down to put up or shut up. I think that is particularly the case among self-described researchers claiming to be conducting scientific investigation.


Thank you for those links, I have read them, and find it useful to refamiliarize with some of the popular/central figures in abduction investigation, Jjflash.

Like I suggested before, I feel neither inclined to attack or defend the likes of Jacobs or Lamb, or any other big names in 'abductionology' smiley. Credit is due to them for collecting and processing large volumes of data from this phenomenon. Perhaps they make mistakes: you seem well read up on the details of their activities, as is one of our other members (Mythos), so I would refer to arguments by both of you to come to a quality judgement of these Abduction Researchers.

I find it strange you are willing to blindly follow the "opinion" of Professor of Microbiology Kokjohn, without addressing my specific problems and objections to those opinions as presented in your linked articles. Slaving after a guy's opinion based on his academic credentials alone must be in contradiction to Skepticism, the principles of Reason, and betrayal of the Scientific Method. Honestly, I worry you practice Science as a Religion, Jj.

And based on his own words, Kokjohn style DNA testing uses state-of-the-art forensics, that is COMPARISON to pre-existing data bases of human and earthly DNA. Any suggestion this will track alien presence/activity on Earth has zero basis in fact. The prof has got no facts, no alien DNA sequences or markers to compare against. Therefore his assertion his DNA test will verify abduction claims imho are exaggerated.

I feel I should answer unequivocally to your repeated statements that abduction research in general and Dr. David Jacobs' research specifically fail the scientific standard. I agree. The excuse/explanation might be that abduction is too weird to fit scientific methods of investigation. Was Science blindsided by something beyond imagination? Jjflash, it's one of those Muhammad and the Mountain things here, either Abduction "puts up" or Science has to stretch is scope and methodology.


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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #41 on: Jun 2nd, 2013, 2:38pm »

No one can really understand alien abduction or write about alien adduction unless that person has been abducted.

When one thinks about UFO's and alien abduction, you are talking about a new set of physics laws.

Most people's brains will not allow that person to think outside of out their reality.

Can you accept a new set of physics in a different existence ?

People can not, and can not accept alien abduction !

But it is real.

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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #42 on: Jun 2nd, 2013, 4:13pm »

on Jun 2nd, 2013, 2:38pm, Silvermist wrote:
No one can really understand alien abduction or write about alien adduction unless that person has been abducted.

When one thinks about UFO's and alien abduction, you are talking about a new set of physics laws.

Most people's brains will not allow that person to think outside of out their reality.

Can you accept a new set of physics in a different existence ?

People can not, and can not accept alien abduction !

But it is real.



Sounds overly pessimist to my ears, Silvermist! I agree people can't fully comprehend another's experience unless they had that experience themselves. But I accept this strange phenomenon, and I think acceptance is widening as time goes on. I think Abduction needs investigators who will seriously listen and record the stories, analyse the bulk of data as it expands, and scientists to model theories to explain it.

We are not close to solving the puzzle now imo, because of official government denial, plus that the scientific community largely turns a blind eye. Also the debunking and ridicule let loose on abductees daring to go public can be devastating. Enough so to shut up some witnesses who don't want to become their surroundings laughingstock and even risk losing their job.


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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #43 on: Jun 2nd, 2013, 5:01pm »

I just felt like what has been written has used being mental or sleep paralysis as the reason entirely.

I do not know the answers, but some abduction cases are real.

The problem is how does one know which are the real cases.

In my case I was awake studying for a college test, and that was the problem.

For what ever reason or mis-calculation, my E.T.'s did not expect to find me wide wake.

Besides time standing still, we had a face off, which of course, I lost.

I think the E.T.'s did not calculate the right time to enter my bedroom.

These E.T.'s were small, young, and had no experience, and stupid.

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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #44 on: Jun 3rd, 2013, 12:04pm »

on Jun 2nd, 2013, 5:01pm, Silvermist wrote:
I just felt like what has been written has used being mental or sleep paralysis as the reason entirely.

I do not know the answers, but some abduction cases are real.

The problem is how does one know which are the real cases.

In my case I was awake studying for a college test, and that was the problem.

For what ever reason or mis-calculation, my E.T.'s did not expect to find me wide wake.

Besides time standing still, we had a face off, which of course, I lost.

I think the E.T.'s did not calculate the right time to enter my bedroom.

These E.T.'s were small, young, and had no experience, and stupid.



Should we even care about all the things written about abduction, Silver? I think mental disorders, sleep disorders and alien abduction are separate phenomena. Their overlap consists of every one of them getting experienced by the mind, while difference is that nr. 1 & 2 are brain based, and Alien Abduction involves imo outside, real players initiating contact.

I like to model abduction/contact as taking place on a massive scale, since like almost forever, they are all 'real', yet the number of physical takings is smaller than dream/spirit abductions. I wonder if WE ALL have met Others, but simply can't remember.

By the way there are numerable abduction accounts where the experiencers were wide awake, and/or have normal recall (without requiring hypnotic augmentation).


purr
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