Board Logo
« Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abduction »

Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
Dec 13th, 2017, 8:12pm


Visit the UFO Casebook Web Site

*Totally FREE 24/7 Access *Your Nickname and Avatar *Private Messages

*Join today and be a part of one of the largest UFO sites on the Net.


« Previous Topic | Next Topic »
Pages: 1 ... 19 20 21 22 23  ...  33 Notify Send Topic Print
 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abduction  (Read 53843 times)
jjflash
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




Homepage PM


Posts: 1476
xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #300 on: Aug 15th, 2014, 9:15pm »

Discussing the Carpenter Affair on Paranormal Waypoint

The UFO Trail

August 15, 2014

Jeff Ritzmann is the host of Paranormal Waypoint, a podcast that airs Tuesdays at 9pm ET on kgra.com. I accepted Jeff's invitation to be on the show this Tuesday, August 19, to discuss a chain of events that became known as the Carpenter Affair. I very much encourage readers to listen and develop understandings of the significance of the circumstances. I will provide some relevant links and points of reference below.

John Carpenter is the former MUFON director of abduction research. He is a social worker and hypnotist who supports the literal reality of alien abduction.

MUFON Orange County recently announced it will feature Carpenter as a speaker. A promotional email circulated by MUFON and received today implied Carpenter advocates scientific research. The email further suggested that Carpenter's experience in the field of researching alleged alien abduction entitles him to present his preferred beliefs. As a matter of fact, it was stated in the email that John Carpenter would present "proof supporting the reality of UFO abductions".

I dispute those claims.

While serving as the MUFON director of abduction research, John Carpenter provided Robert Bigelow with copies of case files of some 140 possible alien abductees. This was done in exchange for cash and without the informed consent of the experiencers, some of whom had been his paying clients. Additionally, I was presented evidence during the course of researching the circumstances that Carpenter created and marketed tapes of regressive hypnosis sessions. The chain of events were dubbed the Carpenter Affair.

Further research revealed, as one investigator stated, "Everyone does it," referring to both selling case file information and having sex with hypnosis clients. In the circumstances of John Carpenter, he married two former hypnosis clients.

I assert that such research conditions are unscientific and encourage bias. Specifically, John Carpenter was financially motivated to persuade research subjects to narrate extraordinary experiences. I also assert that having sexual relations with research subjects creates dysfunctional dynamics to the point of calling the entire body of work into serious question.

Further dysfunction was perpetrated by the MUFON board of directors. In an incredibly questionable chain of events, Carpenter conducted hypnosis sessions with Leah Haley, inducing mental imagery which suggested she was aboard an alien spacecraft when it was downed by US military forces. Before it was over, this saga evolved to include two more MUFON directors, Donald Ware and Robert Reid, coordinating a hike with Haley across Eglin Air Force Base in search of the site of the downed spacecraft. Then, in 1995 a fourth MUFON director, Tom Deuley, told The Tampa Tribune-Times that MUFON did not embrace "such ridiculous stories" as Haley's, and that "it doesn't help the serious scientific work being done."

Trouble was, Deuley failed to inform The Trib that it was his very own fellow board members who played key roles in cultivating those stories. He also failed to mention that during the very time his remarks were published, the MUFON Journal was publishing an ongoing column written by Carpenter, in which Carpenter was proclaiming the reality of alien abduction.

I dispute on several grounds the integrity of such circumstances as well as the claims contained in the MUFON email promoting Carpenter's work. I dispute that the man's activities resulted in virtually any information worthy of serious consideration. I entirely and emphatically dispute that his research was scientific.

Perhaps what we really learn from his upcoming Orange County engagement is the depths proponents of literal alien abduction must stoop to try to impose so-called evidence upon us. If the topic is reduced to presenting the work of John Carpenter as "proof" of alien abduction, it is indeed a defeated state.

Perhaps much more important and telling is what the chain of events tells us about the concern - or lack thereof - for the welfare of research subjects. It would seem the genre has been reduced to encouraging regressive hypnosis, its inherent emotional trauma, and all with no crisis of conscience from what we have learned and the intentional omission of relevant information.

Please tune in Tuesday the 19th at 9pm to kgra.com. The chat room is highly recommended.

Related reading:

The Carpenter Affair: For the Record

The Leah Haley Case: John Carpenter

The Leah Haley Case: The Eglin Expedition

The Leah Haley Case: Tom Deuley, The Tampa Trib and MUFON Unaccountability
« Last Edit: Aug 15th, 2014, 9:26pm by jjflash » User IP Logged

The UFO Trail
drwu23
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 6592
xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #301 on: Aug 15th, 2014, 9:47pm »

As I said in another thread somewhere this whole alien abduction area, as well as most of the ufo area in general, has become a circus.
User IP Logged

jjflash
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




Homepage PM


Posts: 1476
xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #302 on: Aug 17th, 2014, 12:32pm »

Here is a link containing a pretty thorough accounting of what Jeff Ritzmann and I will be discussing Tuesday night, the Carpenter Affair and related circumstances:

http://ufotrail.blogspot.com/2013/10/the-carpenter-affair-for-record.html

The post includes an abbreviated time line of relevant circumstances, as well as details of extremely questionable activities surrounding the 'abduction-research' of John Carpenter. Also included are documents that were presented in a formal complaint filed by Gary Hart in 2001 to the State of Missouri Division of Professional Registration (a licensing board), as Carpenter is a licensed social worker. The board imposed a five-year probation period upon Carpenter's license (which was completed in 2006).

Such circumstances carry a number of relevant implications to the genre of alleged alien abduction, including checks and balances on the quality of research protocol. We might of course express concern about the degree of accuracy of information that results. We should indeed be greatly concerned about the care of witnesses and research subjects.

As interested parties, we not only have the right to question and discuss such circumstances, we have responsibilities to do so.
User IP Logged

The UFO Trail
Mythos
Global Moderator
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 910
xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #303 on: Aug 19th, 2014, 12:38am »

on Aug 15th, 2014, 9:47pm, drwu23 wrote:
As I said in another thread somewhere this whole alien abduction area, as well as most of the ufo area in general, has become a circus.


And "Circuses" are real too!

The fact that some Abduction cases are fake does not prove that ALL Abduction Cases are fake any more than a bunch of blurry-bug photos that are claimed to be alien craft negate ALL other UFO photos...!

Critical Reasoning must be included in Critical Analysis!

Here is a question: If a Skeptic will NOT accept anything as proof, what is the definition of a Debunker?
User IP Logged

Ground Control to Major Tom
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Take your Protien Pill and put your Helmet on...
INT21
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 3132
xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #304 on: Aug 19th, 2014, 04:19am »

Mythos,

...Here is a question: If a Skeptic will NOT accept anything as proof, what is the definition of a Debunker?..

You statement that a skeptic will not accept anything as proof is flawed.

A skeptic will accept reasonable proof and will modify his belief in light of the new knowledge.
He is aware, however, that nothing is ever absolute. and that he may need to further tweek this knowledge as more emerges.

As for the debunker.. To me the debunker is a person who has some agenda to follow. Someone who may believe something but tries to ass it off as something else.

The often have an interest to protect.

HAL
INT21
User IP Logged

Isn't it midnight, on the other side of the world.
Do you remember
the face of a pretty girl ?
drwu23
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 6592
xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #305 on: Aug 19th, 2014, 10:35am »

on Aug 19th, 2014, 12:38am, Mythos wrote:
And "Circuses" are real too!

The fact that some Abduction cases are fake does not prove that ALL Abduction Cases are fake any more than a bunch of blurry-bug photos that are claimed to be alien craft negate ALL other UFO photos...!

Critical Reasoning must be included in Critical Analysis!

Here is a question: If a Skeptic will NOT accept anything as proof, what is the definition of a Debunker?


Not much critical reasoning in that post.
wink
My point about the Circus is not to deny that some events might be legitimate but that fringe personalities and others have turned the whole area into a three ring circus with barkers, hoaxsters, knee jerk bleevers, cultists, and money makers who have clouded the whole issue to the point that serious investigation and investigators is almost impossible.

Case in point is that Dr Vallee, a scientist and perhaps the most knowledgeable person about all aspects of it, and a believer in reality of the phenomenon, has said many times that any chance to get at the bottom of it to do some good science has been thwarted time and time again by the fringe elements who have ruined serious investigation and interest into the enigma.
« Last Edit: Aug 19th, 2014, 10:44am by drwu23 » User IP Logged

jjflash
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




Homepage PM


Posts: 1476
xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #306 on: Aug 22nd, 2014, 8:16pm »

Dr. John Mack and His Irrational Argument for Hypnosis

The UFO Trail

August 22, 2014

The video below was recently posted by Paul Kimball. It contains a couple or so minutes of footage shot by Mr. Kimball at a press conference conducted at the 2001 MUFON Symposium in Irvine, California.

In the video, the late Dr. John Mack attempts to defend the use of hypnosis, or what he prefers to call a relaxation exercise, as a memory retrieval tool for alleged alien abductees.

Attempts.

I find the doctor's lines of reasoning profoundly irrational. Shockingly so, as a matter of fact.



Arguing the validity of hypnosis, Mack offered an example he apparently felt would support his point. He explained that an alleged abductee recalled an alien-related experience in a quite different manner before hypnosis as compared to during hypnosis. Mack astonishingly seemed to view the discrepancy as evidence of the value of hypnosis in clarifying actuality, as opposed to calling the validity of the memories into question.

It went something like this:

Witness testimony: I met a very friendly alien.

Witness testimony under hypnosis: I met a very unfriendly alien.

Hypnotist: That is an excellent example of how hypnosis assists the client in discerning reality.

I challenge the validity of such lines of reasoning.

In the event one might wonder, yes, I have read Mack's material. I also attended one of his presentations during the 1990's. I was not surprised to find him well spoken and entertaining. His activities were of course greatly appreciated by proponents of alien abduction as a literal reality.

His work was of course of interest to many at the time due to his credentials and status in the academic community. It seemed there might actually be something to the fantastic reports and witness testimonies - and there still may be. I'm not suggesting that everything from Mothman to Fatima necessarily hinges on Mack coming down with a case of mind freeze during a UFO con presser.

Nonetheless, I challenge the logic behind the example Dr. Mack presented. It is simply irrational.
User IP Logged

The UFO Trail
drwu23
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 6592
xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #307 on: Aug 22nd, 2014, 10:44pm »

on Aug 22nd, 2014, 8:16pm, jjflash wrote:
Dr. John Mack and His Irrational Argument for Hypnosis

The UFO Trail

August 22, 2014

The video below was recently posted by Paul Kimball. It contains a couple or so minutes of footage shot by Mr. Kimball at a press conference conducted at the 2001 MUFON Symposium in Irvine, California.

In the video, the late Dr. John Mack attempts to defend the use of hypnosis, or what he prefers to call a relaxation exercise, as a memory retrieval tool for alleged alien abductees.

Attempts.

I find the doctor's lines of reasoning profoundly irrational. Shockingly so, as a matter of fact.



Arguing the validity of hypnosis, Mack offered an example he apparently felt would support his point. He explained that an alleged abductee recalled an alien-related experience in a quite different manner before hypnosis as compared to during hypnosis. Mack astonishingly seemed to view the discrepancy as evidence of the value of hypnosis in clarifying actuality, as opposed to calling the validity of the memories into question.

It went something like this:

Witness testimony: I met a very friendly alien.

Witness testimony under hypnosis: I met a very unfriendly alien.

Hypnotist: That is an excellent example of how hypnosis assists the client in discerning reality.

I challenge the validity of such lines of reasoning.

In the event one might wonder, yes, I have read Mack's material. I also attended one of his presentations during the 1990's. I was not surprised to find him well spoken and entertaining. His activities were of course greatly appreciated by proponents of alien abduction as a literal reality.

His work was of course of interest to many at the time due to his credentials and status in the academic community. It seemed there might actually be something to the fantastic reports and witness testimonies - and there still may be. I'm not suggesting that everything from Mothman to Fatima necessarily hinges on Mack coming down with a case of mind freeze during a UFO con presser.

Nonetheless, I challenge the logic behind the example Dr. Mack presented. It is simply irrational.


That does sound a bit convoluted coming from an MD and psychiatrist with a solid reputation.
Perhaps he was having a bad day. wink

BTW...I have read his books and I don't think he ever said he believed space aliens were abducting people but that the people did believe it themselves and he could find no clear reason that they were psychologically unbalanced.
He also implied that the experiences might be something of a spiritual nature and dimensional/astral rather than on an objective physical plane. Interesting comments from an MD from Harvard.
Or am I misreading his position?
User IP Logged

jjflash
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




Homepage PM


Posts: 1476
xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #308 on: Aug 23rd, 2014, 12:25pm »

on Aug 22nd, 2014, 10:44pm, drwu23 wrote:
That does sound a bit convoluted coming from an MD and psychiatrist with a solid reputation.
Perhaps he was having a bad day. wink

BTW...I have read his books and I don't think he ever said he believed space aliens were abducting people but that the people did believe it themselves and he could find no clear reason that they were psychologically unbalanced.
He also implied that the experiences might be something of a spiritual nature and dimensional/astral rather than on an objective physical plane. Interesting comments from an MD from Harvard.
Or am I misreading his position?


I hear ya. I suspect he may have taken a bit more politically and scientifically correct positions in his published work, while perhaps his true opinions were more accurately depicted in statements such as contained in the video. I dunno, but you've probably heard of the comments of some of those who knew him personally and suggested from time to time that he could seem a bit naive, or at the least overly enthusiastic about Hopkins and such.

Imo, it's one thing for someone like Hopkins to take overly simplistic perspectives, like, 'why would a witness say it if it isn't true?', and it's another thing for an esteemed mental health professional to take such a stance. Bizarre and concerning, actually.
User IP Logged

The UFO Trail
purr
Global Moderator
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

..you talkin' to me...YOU TALKIN' TO ME..??!


PM

Gender: Female
Posts: 4830
xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #309 on: Aug 24th, 2014, 02:20am »

on Aug 22nd, 2014, 10:44pm, drwu23 wrote:
That does sound a bit convoluted coming from an MD and psychiatrist with a solid reputation.
Perhaps he was having a bad day. wink

BTW...I have read his books and I don't think he ever said he believed space aliens were abducting people but that the people did believe it themselves and he could find no clear reason that they were psychologically unbalanced.
He also implied that the experiences might be something of a spiritual nature and dimensional/astral rather than on an objective physical plane. Interesting comments from an MD from Harvard.
Or am I misreading his position?


I read (and massively enjoyed) his work too, dr Wu, and I'd say that's a fair representation of his findings.

If his defense of hypnosis in abduction research became convoluted here it may be simply due to his conviction, evolved over 10 years of research, that indeed his clients/abduction experiencers had less symptoms of disorder than the population on average!

Inescapable logic (to the psychiatrist's mind) emerges here: if there's no causality chain like DISORDER [leads to] EXPERIENCE [leads to] HYPNOSIS AUGMENTED RECALL, one simple alternative chain might be: EXPERIENCE [leads to] HYPNOSIS AUGMENTED RECALL.

Never mind there's some distortion in such recall. At least it yielded (distorted) additional information about something real and potentially important. (One may compensate for distortion, just like one may compensate for lies, confabulations and delusions.)


purr
« Last Edit: Aug 24th, 2014, 02:22am by purr » User IP Logged

Let us be sure that those who come after will say of us in our time, that in our time we did everything that could be done. We finished the race; we kept them free; we kept the faith.

-RONALD REAGAN
ZETAR
Mod Director
Global Moderator
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

GREAT SPIRITS ALWAYS ENCOUNTER THE MOST VIOLENT OPPOSITION FROM MEDIOCRE MINDS E=MC2


PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 8450
xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #310 on: Aug 24th, 2014, 4:26pm »

PURR,

WELL SAID ~ AND ~ A PURR-FECT ASSESSMENT!

SHALOM...Z

EDIT TO ADD:

LOOKING PAST/BEYOND THE DISTORTION...MAY LEAD TO ENLIGHTENMENT
User IP Logged

GREAT SPIRITS ALWAYS ENCOUNTER THE MOST VIOLENT OPPOSITION FROM MEDIOCRE MINDS E=MC2
jjflash
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




Homepage PM


Posts: 1476
xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #311 on: Nov 15th, 2014, 9:18pm »

Emma Woods is steadily creating a website full of relevant information and valuable resources. I'm very pleased that a number of podcasts related to both her case and the inherent challenges to employing hypnosis as an investigative tool are now readily available:

http://ufoalienabductee.com/radio-podcasts/

Emma has also been getting info posted about the roles the intelligence community have played in ufology:

http://ufoalienabductee.com/ufology/

I'm honored that she chose to prominently include 'The UFO Trail' in the sections.

Jack Brewer
User IP Logged

The UFO Trail
drwu23
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 6592
xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #312 on: Nov 16th, 2014, 10:55am »

Regarding alien abduction research , it's a shame that no hard core forensic experts that specialize in kidnap and or missing person cases have looked into the 'alien abduction syndrome'. It would be interesting to see if they might find some objective evidence that all the amateur ufo investigators have missed. Even aliens, assuming they are actual biological beings, must have dna and leave other trace evidence from time to time unless they all wear gloves and wipe down the places they visit.
I'm not trying to make fun here but one would think that a good solid forensic look after one of these abductions would turn up something.
User IP Logged

carolnistri
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM


Posts: 2044
xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #313 on: Nov 17th, 2014, 03:36am »

Like what? Here you have a terrified human being and your asking of them What? Actually I know what you mean,btw Dr.Wu,remember when those "glass beads" were found among the dust of a bedroom in which the person claimed to have been abducted? Whatever happend to that study?
User IP Logged

drwu23
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 6592
xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #314 on: Nov 17th, 2014, 3:01pm »

on Nov 17th, 2014, 03:36am, carolnistri wrote:
Like what? Here you have a terrified human being and your asking of them What? Actually I know what you mean,btw Dr.Wu,remember when those "glass beads" were found among the dust of a bedroom in which the person claimed to have been abducted? Whatever happend to that study?


Any forensic evidence at all would be nice. Any trace chemicals ,dna , particles, fibers, etc left behind by the 'aliens'.
Don't recall what was ever found about the 'glass beads'.
User IP Logged

Pages: 1 ... 19 20 21 22 23  ...  33 Notify Send Topic Print
« Previous Topic | Next Topic »

Become a member of the UFO Casebook Forum today and join our more than 19,000 members.

Visit the UFO Casebook Web Site

Donate $6.99 for 50,000 Ad-Free Pageviews!

| |

This forum powered for FREE by Conforums ©
Sign up for your own Free Message Board today!
Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | Conforums Support | Parental Controls