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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abduction  (Read 46079 times)
drwu23
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #330 on: Nov 20th, 2014, 08:11am »

on Nov 20th, 2014, 06:27am, INT21 wrote:
......

Not a very nice way to address a fellow member who's opinions are of equal value to your own.



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For those who have had 'experiences' no amount of alternate explanations nor evidence is going to convince them it was not in their head nor space aliens.
It has become similar to a religious experience to them no matter how one tries to interpret or discuss the events.
And I understand why they feel like that but once you commit to a 'belief' the truth ,whatever it is, becomes very difficult to get at since one has already made up their mind regardless of what else comes up. This has always been a hallmark also of paranormal experience.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #331 on: Nov 20th, 2014, 08:15am »

on Nov 20th, 2014, 06:12am, thelmadonna wrote:
I have never, up until now had need or want to tell you to shut the **** up.
Here is a ufocasebook page, the abductors t5hat do not abduct come in vehicles like these, that apparently do not exist.. The one from Grangemouth is about a quarter of a mile from my home.



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Is this what you have seen....?
BTW...no one is saying that all sightings nor abduction experiences are all in the head.
No one is making fun or trying to discredit the fact people have 'ufo related sightings'. ....but looking at all the possibilities for answers to what can be very different events.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #332 on: Nov 20th, 2014, 8:54pm »

One has to walk in that person's shoes to have any understanding at all.

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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #333 on: Nov 21st, 2014, 08:37am »

on Nov 20th, 2014, 8:54pm, ghostofsilver wrote:
One has to walk in that person's shoes to have any understanding at all.



To have any understanding at all...? No.
To understand that person's feelings about it? Yes.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #334 on: Dec 18th, 2014, 12:45pm »

A post last year from @AFutureGhost that makes some points worthy of consideration, in my opinion:


Defense of the Linda Cortile case

A Future Ghost

January 3, 2013

Many months after losing interest in the controversy of UFO abductions and the research thereof, I stumbled upon a site by Sean Meers and a self-published defense of the case. I've started reading the defense. It seems to be thoroughly documented and very impassioned. Meers points out several apparent errors by Paratopia in attacking the late Bud Hopkins and seeks to discredit the criticisms of Carol Rainey. Having gained some distance from the whole "abduction" controversy, my opinions have settled down to a few remaining impressions... largely informed by some life experiences.

I think that the fundamental reason that sciences refuses to touch the abduction phenomenon is because the experiences bear more-than-a-casual resemblance to mental illness and other brain anomalies, including the oft-cited "temporal lobe epilepsy." Unfortunately, science cannot publicly say this, for a number of important reasons. A diagnosis of mental illness is not easily nor lightly made, so (in defense of science), the scientist has no choice but to stay as far away from the subject as possible.... which leaves the abduction research mostly to investigators not trained in psychology.

Now, does this mean that abductions are signs of mental illness? No. But look at it from this perspective. If I saw a strange object in the sky and did not know what it was, I'd call it an unidentified flying object, implying, in the popular imagination, that it was an alien craft. However, a trained pilot might come along and say, "Oh, that's not a UFO. I know exactly what that is. It's a C-43-whatever." When we see objects in the sky, we consult with professional aviators to rule out pedestrian explanations (and trust that the pilots aren't covert CIA disinfo agents). Unfortunately, it's quite taboo for an investigator to consult with a psychiatrist when documenting perceptions of events that fall outside the range of normal. The experiencer might be recalling a "real" abduction--or he might be experiencing psychosis. We just don't know.

This problem is compounded by the fact that many paranormalists who report very bizarre experiences also show an obsession with a number of ill-informed conspiracies. Their beliefs are often indistinguishable from the truly delusional. So, science isn't going to go there.

Unfortunately, because science can't (or won't) touch these cases, we cannot know their true nature. We simply don't know what's causing them. And I argue that we, as lay people, should tread lightly on these cases and not rush to argue that they are, in fact, what they appear to be.

(How does this differ from investigations of near-death experiences? Well, NDEs usually happen in a clinical setting and are studied by researchers who specialize in medical science. And more often than not, they can convincingly argue that the NDE was "real" and not the result of known problems of perception.)

I actually bought Bud Hopkins' book on the Cortile incident right after it came out (albeit at discount from a second-hand store). Someone had bought it and quickly resold it for reasons unknown. I was very impressed with the book. Bud Hopkins was a good writer who was able to convey an aura of authority to his material. When I read George Hansen's critique of the case shortly thereafter, I thought, "Hey, wait a minute... this makes a lot of sense, too." Ultimately, I was more convinced by Hansen's critique for an important reason. Hopkins told an extraordinary story that defied logical explanation, and while it was fascinating and well-told, it was unsubstantiated. It was an extraordinary, profoundly strange experience that lacked the necessary hard proof. We were asked to accept the account as-is, based on the testimony of some of the participants. As a result, Hansen was able to cause me to doubt the testimony by highlighting some significant flaws in the narrative. For all I know, the Cortile case might have gone down the way that Hopkins said it did. But after Hansen, I doubted it then, and I still do now.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #335 on: Dec 30th, 2014, 06:54am »

Latest at my blog, 'The UFO Trail':

Security of Budd Hopkins Archive Called into Question, David Jacobs Shares Responsibility

December 30, 2014

The UFO Trail

Peter Robbins, who described himself on the Dec. 17 Jimmy Church 'Fade to Black' show as a former assistant and confidant to the late Budd Hopkins, told Church that David Jacobs recently provided Retired Col. Charles Halt with a copy of a tape recorded regressive hypnosis session conducted by Hopkins many years earlier on subject Larry Warren. Robbins framed the circumstances, about which Warren expressed outrage earlier this month, as a misunderstanding on the part of Jacobs.

This blog has previously explored issues central to the ethics of UFO research. They include how abduction researchers have dealt with in the past and continue to deal with witness confidentiality. The story of the leaking of Larry Warren's audio-taped session(s) to Charles Halt continues this exploration. Let's begin with a summary of some of the players and what was stated on recent podcasts.

Read the full post at:

http://ufotrail.blogspot.com/2014/12/security-of-budd-hopkins-archive-called.html
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #336 on: Jan 4th, 2015, 9:41pm »

Carol Rainey Responds to Peter Robbins

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January 4, 2015

Witness confidentiality and accompanying issues were recently explored on this blog in the post, 'Security of Budd Hopkins Archive Called into Question, David Jacobs Shares Responsibility'. Peter Robbins subsequently chose to voice some perspectives about the piece and make some related assertions. Carol Rainey chose to respond. Rainey's response was received in an email today, and is posted below with her consent:

Carol Rainey’s Response to Peter Robbins, January 4, 2015

I would like to respond to Peter Robbins’ categorical statement below, which was posted to Sacha Christie’s Facebook page on January 1st:

“For the record – Budd Hopkins NEVER allowed the release of any tape recording or confidential file except to the individual themselves. David Jacobs has always followed this policy as well – except in single case of the event in question [the release of Larry Warren’s tape to Col. Halt].”

Budd Hopkins’ supporters have shown a disturbing commitment to turn him into “a saint” by revising and sanitizing every act and event of his life. Budd was a human being – often warm and caring, but also often thoughtless and careless about other people’s safety and needs. So are most of us divided between our good and our selfish impulses. So, please, folks, there is no need to attempt to present him as perfect and without flaw – in retrospect. That simply is not who he was. We were married for ten years, most of those happily, and long enough for me to know his character and his work.

Prior to his death, however, Budd did not make adequate provisions for the posthumous safety and protection of his subjects’ records. In other fields, a researcher’s archives are often given in trust to an academic institution or major library. The archives are transferred to these safe havens along with strict legal contracts that specify who, why, and how other individuals with serious research projects may or may not use them. If I had been one of Budd’s subjects, that would have been my strong preference for where my records would have ended up.

Peter is simply and utterly wrong when he asserts that Budd “NEVER allowed the release of a tape or file to anyone but the individual themselves [sic].” What would Peter call the fact that Budd allowed David Jacobs, at some point in the late 1990’s, to take hundreds of Budd’s hypnosis tapes back to his home in order to make copies of those confidential “patient records?”

And we both know that Budd, in his studio or living room, often played excerpts of his subjects’ regression sessions to visitors like Col. Halt, Roger Leir, John Mack, and others. I saw him play these regression tapes for journalists, for television producers, for other abductees. He also played a videotaped interview with John Cortile, aged eight or nine when it was shot, in his studio for outsiders to see, although he’d promised John’s mother that he would not.

It’s public knowledge that in his first interaction with John Mack, Budd handed him a stack of his unopened, personal mail. These were letters, often up to eight pages long, that had been sent to him in confidence by people who spilled out their deepest fears that their anomalous experiences meant they might be abductees. The names and addresses of these confidential letters (often marked “Confidential” on the envelopes) were fully in view. John has mentioned this in his writing and in conference presentations. Greg Sandow, too, has posted on the Web about Budd handing him, early on, a stack of unopened letters as a way of convincing him to take the phenomenon seriously.

In his last year of life, Budd (or his assignee) handed over to one of his supporters videotape to be publicly posted on a website that defended the “Witnessed” case. The unfortunate facts are that what Budd handed over to be made public was footage that belonged to me, footage that I’d shot with alleged abductees and witnesses for a documentary. I had obtained proper releases from each for inclusion in my film. But Budd had no release or contract whatsoever with the individuals on my film. Yet he was apparently untroubled by the ethical concerns of having handed over stolen material to be posted on a supporter’s site in full violation of my copyright -- not to mention the rights of the subjects who were then publicly “outed.”

Although I have less knowledge of David Jacobs’ policies and procedures, I am aware that Emma Woods has objected strongly, in the past, about his passing along the audiotapes of her own regressions to be listened to and transcribed by other alleged abductees.

In summary, I’d suggest to people concerned about such matters to familiarize themselves with the strict U.S. Department of Health and Human Services HIPAA regulations. More information about privacy rights for healthcare information can be found at http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/complaints/index.html.

Carol Rainey

New York City, 2015

..................................................................................................

Related posts:

Security of Budd Hopkins Archive Called into Question, David Jacobs Shares Responsibility

Carol Rainey: Open Letter to the UFO Community
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #337 on: Apr 7th, 2015, 09:30am »

In a post recently published at the blog of Alfred Lehmberg, it was implied that retired historian and researcher of alleged alien abduction Dr. David Jacobs might consider consulting with microbiologist Dr. Tyler Kokjohn for research purposes, particularly testing material allegedly related to Jacobs' claims of ET-human hybrids. In the comments section, Dr. Kokjohn wrote:

Quote:
Alfred -

If I may offer one point of clarification...

Although I agree completely that acquiring and analyzing samples from alleged hybrids is essential, it is not possible for me to work with Dr. Jacobs. The rules regulating research conduct at my institution would prohibit that collaboration.

Defending himself from the accusations of improper conduct leveled by Emma Woods, Dr. Jacobs took refuge in the claim that he was not actually conducting any research. Instead, he stressed he was only taking oral histories.

Here is the problem from my perspective - the ambit of oral history taking certainly does not include collection of biological samples and their analyses. Moreover, since Dr. Jacobs explicitly stated he was not doing research (biomedical or otherwise), it seems unlikely he provided his subjects with sufficiently detailed informed consent documents to allow for sample collection. In order to obtain permission from my institution to collaborate on any research involving human subjects, it would be necessary to provide full documentation of the research scope, all informed consent documents and plans for dealing with any adverse events that might be foreseeable. Afeter all the necessary documentation has been reviewed, investigators must receive formal approval or an explict declaration of exemption from the Institutional Review Board before any work may proceed. These requirements are non-negotiable and approvals can never be obtained retroactively.

But what if Dr. Jacobs, now working as an independent investigator, decided to finally do some real research and collect samples under the aegis of acceptable informed consent rules? Even if the new work met every standard for the ethical and safe conduct of human subject research, I would still refuse to collaborate with him. The events and information regarding the Emma Woods debacle all convinced me I want nothing to do with Dr. Jacobs.

Tyler Kokjohn


What we might refer to as how research is conducted in the real world...
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #338 on: Apr 7th, 2015, 09:44am »

From my 2012 interview with David Jacobs and what Dr. Kokjohn was referencing, at least in part:

We discussed further why Jacobs stated millions of dollars in funding is required to conduct DNA tests on individuals or items allegedly coming in contact with aliens or hybrids.

“The reason I say millions,” Jacobs said, “is because Lloyd Pye has this skull and he estimates it costs several million dollars to get the skull completely sequenced. That estimate apparently has been agreed upon by other people too.

“The point is that if somebody comes along and wants to do it, fine, then, you know. I have taken material for analysis to various DNA testing places. They had negative results. There wasn't enough of it or they couldn't tell what it was – that sort of thing.”

“Are these tests available for the public to review?”

“Not yet.”

“Will they be?”

“I don't know. One I did many years ago at a local lab in Delaware. Another one was done by American Testing Institute in New York City – American Chemical? I can't remember the name of it now. That was also many years ago – about brown stains that people have; that's routinely there.

“I had another one done for a TV show and they didn't know what the heck it was. They just sort of laughed about it and I got to look at those reports.

“Maybe one day I'll put them on the Internet. I don't know, but I'm still old school. It never occurs to me to put things on the Internet, but that's an idea 'cause they're just sitting in my files. But with this purity of DNA that comes directly from a hybrid, that would be another order of things.”

“Am I correct in my understanding,” I asked, “that Barbara Lamb claims to personally know a hybrid?”

“You're going to have to ask Barbara that. I don't know. I haven't talked to Barbara in a couple of years, actually.”

“What I'm getting at,” I explained, “again, is the possible opportunities to do some testing. It would seem like she would prioritize such a thing if she knew a hybrid... Am I correct that you understood hybrids to have sent you text messages and emails?”

“Yes, yes,” Jacobs said, “and that I will be writing a book about. Within context, you'll see the build up to it and how it's all logical; how this came about. Now, I can't tell whether it's a hoax or not. The only way whether I can tell if it's a hoax is by looking in this person's window while typing, instant messaging, and she lives 125 miles away from me – and I'd have to be typing the whole way and then looking in her window to see whether she's sitting there or some guy's sitting there, ya know what I mean?

“So, I don't know. All I know is that the woman I've known for 13 years and I still know her, and she's wonderful and she's great, and she's never ever, ever, ever lied to me in any conceivable way.”

“Is this the woman known as Elizabeth?”

“Yes.”

“Okay,” I began, “I can empathize with someone being 125 miles away... I can empathize with that -”

“You can't look in her windows anyway,” Jacobs interjected. “She sent me pictures of her room. There are curtains and the air conditioner and this and that and you can't even see inside.”

“...and can you empathize,” I continued and asked, “with people that might say if a camera or fingerprint stood between you and a Nobel, it seems like we could figure out how to get the goods on this hybrid?”

“It was much more difficult than you think. This was something that - we – it's much more easy – she wouldn't even remember what was happening until I'd talk with her the next day. By that time, there are no fingerprints. She's already - I'm just going to have to write this thing up and let people decide for themselves. I'll let people decide for themselves on this but, to me, it was typical hybrid discussion, having heard hundreds and hundreds of hybrid discussions from abductees – but I don't know, we'll see, we'll see.

“I'm not going to make any claims one way or the other. All I know is it's one of the scariest things that ever happened to me.”

As I began to ask another question, Jacobs requested I turn off the audio recorder.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #339 on: Apr 7th, 2015, 3:44pm »

jj,

I'm going to ask you a difficult question.
Do you believe that Dr Jacobs is delusional and that his 'abductee' subjects are also or that something legitimate is happening regarding alien contact?
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #340 on: Apr 7th, 2015, 6:16pm »

on Apr 7th, 2015, 3:44pm, drwu23 wrote:
jj,

I'm going to ask you a difficult question.
Do you believe that Dr Jacobs is delusional and that his 'abductee' subjects are also or that something legitimate is happening regarding alien contact?

Hi Wu,

Knowing how adept you are at acknowledging & highlighting fallacious arguments then isn’t that an example of your garden variety ‘association fallacy'?


Cheers. wink
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #341 on: Apr 7th, 2015, 7:10pm »

on Apr 7th, 2015, 3:44pm, drwu23 wrote:
jj,

I'm going to ask you a difficult question.
Do you believe that Dr Jacobs is delusional and that his 'abductee' subjects are also or that something legitimate is happening regarding alien contact?


I don't know, drwu23, but I think there are a lot of reasons people make the claims they do. I don't think literal aliens are abducting people, especially on the scale Jacobs, Hopkins et al would have had us believe. I am willing to suspend judgement on the possibilities there may be genuine mysteries and less conventional explanations involved, particularly that have nothing to do with extraterrestrial space travelers. I think the idea of aliens got inserted circa mid 20th century via various origins, and it stuck, but was never correct.

As for Jacobs, I don't think he believes the platform he promotes. I think some of the people who sought "help" from him and Hopkins, for examples, were predisposed to the dogma long before the "investigation" began. Basically, I have very little reasons to believe Jacobs is sincere. He either lacks understandings of proper protocols concerning working with human research subjects or he doesn't care, neither of which bode well.

Let me put it this way, if an academic researcher regularly talking with a woman by long distance telephone sincerely believed she was being sexually molested on an ongoing basis by hybrids, people or, for that matter, anything else, would you think an appropriate response would be to offer to send her a chastity belt? I wouldn't describe that as sincere, no. I'd say an argument could be made that he's delusional at best.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #342 on: Apr 8th, 2015, 1:51pm »

on Apr 7th, 2015, 6:16pm, DrDil wrote:
Hi Wu,

Knowing how adept you are at acknowledging & highlighting fallacious arguments then isn’t that an example of your garden variety ‘association fallacy'?


Cheers. wink


I'm not sure what you mean by 'association fallacy'..?
Can you describe that term?
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #343 on: Apr 8th, 2015, 1:53pm »

on Apr 7th, 2015, 7:10pm, jjflash wrote:
I don't know, drwu23, but I think there are a lot of reasons people make the claims they do. I don't think literal aliens are abducting people, especially on the scale Jacobs, Hopkins et al would have had us believe. I am willing to suspend judgement on the possibilities there may be genuine mysteries and less conventional explanations involved, particularly that have nothing to do with extraterrestrial space travelers. I think the idea of aliens got inserted circa mid 20th century via various origins, and it stuck, but was never correct.

As for Jacobs, I don't think he believes the platform he promotes. I think some of the people who sought "help" from him and Hopkins, for examples, were predisposed to the dogma long before the "investigation" began. Basically, I have very little reasons to believe Jacobs is sincere. He either lacks understandings of proper protocols concerning working with human research subjects or he doesn't care, neither of which bode well.

Let me put it this way, if an academic researcher regularly talking with a woman by long distance telephone sincerely believed she was being sexually molested on an ongoing basis by hybrids, people or, for that matter, anything else, would you think an appropriate response would be to offer to send her a chastity belt? I wouldn't describe that as sincere, no. I'd say an argument could be made that he's delusional at best.


Thanks for your reply.
What are some possible explanations then iyo as to what these people are really experiencing...?
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #344 on: Apr 8th, 2015, 2:16pm »

JACK,

TO WIT:

"Let me put it this way, if an academic researcher regularly talking with a woman by long distance telephone sincerely believed she was being sexually molested on an ongoing basis by hybrids, people or, for that matter, anything else, would you think an appropriate response would be to offer to send her a chastity belt? I wouldn't describe that as sincere, no. I'd say an argument could be made that he's delusional at best."

I CERTAINLY ADMIRE YOUR INSIGHT grin

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