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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abduction  (Read 41934 times)
jjflash
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #345 on: Apr 8th, 2015, 10:38pm »

on Apr 8th, 2015, 1:53pm, drwu23 wrote:
Thanks for your reply.
What are some possible explanations then iyo as to what these people are really experiencing...?


Thanks for asking, Doc, but I don't have any particularly original ideas to add to what's already on the table. I'm sure some reports are hoaxes, others stem from emotional trauma, some are nothing more than hypnotic confabulations and so on.

I think it's important to remember that if there are any genuine mysteries represented in any of the reports, then their authenticity does not hinge on the competency or sincerity of Jacobs, Hopkins et al. Just because a lot of those guys exploited the situations does not necessarily mean there is nothing of interest to be learned.

What that might be, I couldn't say. You know the drill... the Buddhists and Hindus might be in the ballpark with their worldviews... maybe bizarre magnetic occurrences and electronic frequencies account for some peculiar perceptions... I dunno, but I do know legitimate research will be required to ever uncover actual explanations that may exist, not hypnosis and bogus Roper Polls and such.
« Last Edit: Apr 8th, 2015, 10:38pm by jjflash » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #346 on: Apr 8th, 2015, 10:42pm »

Thanks, ZETAR. Insults to intelligence come to mind... I'll probably do a blog post on that.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #347 on: Apr 9th, 2015, 08:32am »

on Apr 8th, 2015, 10:38pm, jjflash wrote:
Thanks for asking, Doc, but I don't have any particularly original ideas to add to what's already on the table. I'm sure some reports are hoaxes, others stem from emotional trauma, some are nothing more than hypnotic confabulations and so on.

I think it's important to remember that if there are any genuine mysteries represented in any of the reports, then their authenticity does not hinge on the competency or sincerity of Jacobs, Hopkins et al. Just because a lot of those guys exploited the situations does not necessarily mean there is nothing of interest to be learned.

What that might be, I couldn't say. You know the drill... the Buddhists and Hindus might be in the ballpark with their worldviews... maybe bizarre magnetic occurrences and electronic frequencies account for some peculiar perceptions... I dunno, but I do know legitimate research will be required to ever uncover actual explanations that may exist, not hypnosis and bogus Roper Polls and such.


Not to put you on the spot, but it sounds like you don't believe that any of these events are related to possible 'alien entities' in any way, shape, or form. You think they all have some sort of prosaic explanation. Is that correct?
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #348 on: Apr 9th, 2015, 09:23am »

on Apr 9th, 2015, 08:32am, drwu23 wrote:
Not to put you on the spot, but it sounds like you don't believe that any of these events are related to possible 'alien entities' in any way, shape, or form. You think they all have some sort of prosaic explanation. Is that correct?


You are correct that I do not believe that any of the reported events are related to aliens. If circumstances one day prove otherwise, so be it.

Do I think all the reports have prosaic explanations? Not necessarily, no, but possibly.

The two scenarios are of course not synonymous. If any legitimate research is to emerge, it will be conducted professionally, not by authors who promote fantastic yet unsubstantiated content, in my opinion.
« Last Edit: Apr 9th, 2015, 10:07am by jjflash » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #349 on: Apr 9th, 2015, 09:30am »

My latest blog post, 'David Jacobs and Insults to Intelligence', reads in part:

It is not unusual for me to be asked my thoughts on various aspects of alleged alien abduction, including the actions of David Jacobs. I have identified his work to be so extremely poor and misrepresented to contain evidence it actually does not that it has become increasingly difficult for me to express my views about it in what I feel are proper proportion to its lack of validity. There is so much ineptness that it is actually challenging to adequately cover it.

I will offer a few points for consideration below, but please allow me to emphasize that the possibility some people may experience phenomena representing genuine mysteries does not hinge upon the competency or authenticity of David Jacobs and his peers. The fact such researchers could reasonably be interpreted to have made fools of themselves does not equate to necessarily nullifying Fortean topics as a whole.

The subjectivity and shameless promotion of unsupported beliefs contained in the statements of typical abduction-researchers virtually negates their efforts in and of themselves. The lack of rationality has become so prevalent that at this point I seriously doubt many of them sincerely believe their claims and pro-ETH stances, as compared to simply promoting an agenda they view as advantageous.

Concerning David Jacobs specifically, I find the following points and contradictions to be relevant:

- In 2011 the False Memory Syndrome Foundation reported ( https://web.archive.org/web/20110519074925/http://fmsfonline.org/fmsf11.407.html ) that, in response to the accusations leveled by Emma Woods, Temple University asserted Jacobs was only collecting oral histories, not conducting research.

- Contradicting the Temple stance, Jacobs claimed in 2012 to have facilitated DNA-related tests and conducted such research.

- Jacobs further stated the tests in question provided no conclusive results, yet he failed to revise his hypotheses or make details of the tests available for public review. Issues of informed consent and related concerns may apply.

- During a 2014 presentation, Jacobs asserted that he does not conduct hypnosis with alleged alien abductees, but uses relaxation techniques. This is in direct contradiction to the facts he has frequently discussed hypnosis as an investigative tool during his presentations, repeatedly written about its implementation as a memory enhancer, claimed to have been composing a book on the use of hypnosis with abductees and, earlier in literally the same presentation, stated that he began doing hypnosis in 1986.

- While claiming to believe Emma Woods was being assaulted on an ongoing basis by sexually deviant ET-human hybrids, David Jacobs suggested as a partial solution that he could send her a chastity belt. He became familiar with the device, he explained to her, at a sex shop specializing in bondage dominance that he frequented quite often. Suffice it to say that is not standard protocol for providing functional support to the sexually abused. Neither is it indicative of sincere concerns for the woman or suggestive of authentic belief in dangerous hybrids.

- Jacobs claimed to believe electronic messages originating from the computer of "Elizabeth," an alleged alien abductee, were composed and sent by a menacing ET-human hybrid, not Elizabeth. When pressed to explain why forensic evidence of the circumstances could not be obtained, Jacobs stated, among other dubious excuses that actually did not make sense, Elizabeth had curtains over her windows and one could not see inside.

There is much more, but if you require more than that to have your intelligence insulted, I don't know what to tell you. I've been thoroughly insulted for quite some time now.

Full post:

http://ufotrail.blogspot.com/2015/04/david-jacobs-and-insults-to-intelligence.html
« Last Edit: Apr 9th, 2015, 10:06am by jjflash » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #350 on: Apr 9th, 2015, 10:15am »

on Apr 9th, 2015, 09:23am, jjflash wrote:
You are correct that I do not believe that any of the reported events are related to aliens. If circumstances one day prove otherwise, so be it.

Do I think all the reports have prosaic explanations? Not necessarily, no, but possibly.

The two scenarios are of course not synonymous. If any legitimate research is to emerge, it will be conducted professionally, not by authors who promote fantastic yet unsubstantiated content, in my opinion.


Ok...setting 'alien abductions' aside for the moment since your position is they are all non alien in origin, ....where do you stand on sightings of ufos and close encounters by alleged non human entities..? Do you believe they all have prosaic explanations or that some ufos seen in the sky and landed ufos might be actual encounters with aliens or inter-dimensional beings?
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #351 on: Apr 9th, 2015, 10:40am »

on Apr 8th, 2015, 1:51pm, drwu23 wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean by 'association fallacy'..?
Can you describe that term?

Hi Wu,

Here’s the (ahemgrin) Wiki page on it.

Quote:
An association fallacy is an inductive informal fallacy of the type hasty generalization or red herring which asserts that qualities of one thing are inherently qualities of another, merely by an irrelevant association.

It was really just a joke Wu as the way you phrased your question seemed to imply that the entire abduction scenario hinged on whether or not Jacobs was telling the truth:

on Apr 7th, 2015, 3:44pm, drwu23 wrote:
jj,

I'm going to ask you a difficult question.
Do you believe that Dr Jacobs is delusional and that his 'abductee' subjects are also or that something legitimate is happening regarding alien contact?

I appreciate that you were referencing those cases which Jacobs had something to do with but it seemed like there was no middle ground, i.e. if Jacobs is lying then every alien abduction scenario was -by association- false.

Hence, the association fallacy…



Cheers.





**Edit to add quote I was replying to (Doh!!)
« Last Edit: Apr 9th, 2015, 10:48am by DrDil » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #352 on: Apr 9th, 2015, 11:02am »

on Apr 9th, 2015, 10:15am, drwu23 wrote:
Ok...setting 'alien abductions' aside for the moment since your position is they are all non alien in origin, ....where do you stand on sightings of ufos and close encounters by alleged non human entities..? Do you believe they all have prosaic explanations or that some ufos seen in the sky and landed ufos might be actual encounters with aliens or inter-dimensional beings?


I'd invite consideration that suspending judgment, and refraining from selecting a belief, is an option. "I don't know" is an appropriate response to questions when one does not know the answers.

I prefer to not pick a side, so to speak, and let the data speak for itself. In that regard, I see no current reasons to literally believe intelligent non-human beings from outer space or other dimensions are involved. If and when conclusive evidence proves otherwise, I would accept that evidence.

I think we should become more comfortable with applying "I don't know" when appropriate. A belief or suspicion does not always have to be inserted.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #353 on: Apr 9th, 2015, 3:07pm »

on Apr 9th, 2015, 10:40am, DrDil wrote:
Hi Wu,

Here’s the (ahemgrin) Wiki page on it.


It was really just a joke Wu as the way you phrased your question seemed to imply that the entire abduction scenario hinged on whether or not Jacobs was telling the truth:


I appreciate that you were referencing those cases which Jacobs had something to do with but it seemed like there was no middle ground, i.e. if Jacobs is lying then every alien abduction scenario was -by association- false.

Hence, the association fallacy…



Cheers.
**Edit to add quote I was replying to (Doh!!)


Ahh....now I 'see'. I wasn't implying that at all but I 'see' how it could have been interpreted that way.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #354 on: Apr 9th, 2015, 3:12pm »

on Apr 9th, 2015, 11:02am, jjflash wrote:
I'd invite consideration that suspending judgment, and refraining from selecting a belief, is an option. "I don't know" is an appropriate response to questions when one does not know the answers.

I prefer to not pick a side, so to speak, and let the data speak for itself. In that regard, I see no current reasons to literally believe intelligent non-human beings from outer space or other dimensions are involved. If and when conclusive evidence proves otherwise, I would accept that evidence.

I think we should become more comfortable with applying "I don't know" when appropriate. A belief or suspicion does not always have to be inserted.


The old....'I don't know ' routine.
I use that one with the wife all the time....very diplomatic.
wink

Just curious....in your reading on the ufo enigma have you run across any cases you feel 'might be' attributed to non human/alien entities?
BTW...I posted a link here on another thread to those close encounter cases in Dr Vallee's book Confrontations, but you never read them nor responded about them.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #355 on: Apr 10th, 2015, 2:15pm »

I don't view it as diplomatic, Doc, I see it more as taking responsibility to support a culture which respects and practices professional research protocol. I subsequently do not assign belief to anecdotal stories provided by writers that are often second hand if not several parties removed from the original sources, all of which rely upon the sincerity and interpretations of the initial witnesses in the first place.

As I have stated on multiple occasions, I am willing to suspend judgment. I do not want to try to tell anyone what they did or did not experience.

Belief and drawing conclusions, or even forming suppositions, however, are other matters. I simply refrain from drawing conclusions where they are not yet available. Perhaps I have not been clear on that, but I feel I have.

About Vallee, I do not currently prioritize re-reading his work and fact-checking it, seeking alternative explanations and so on (as Colavito seems to be willing, at least to some extent). If you or others wish to do so, I would support that choice and be interested in reading about what you find.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #356 on: Apr 10th, 2015, 6:43pm »

JACK,

TO WIT:

"I don't view it as diplomatic, Doc, I see it more as taking responsibility to support a culture which respects and practices professional research protocol. I subsequently do not assign belief to anecdotal stories provided by writers that are often second hand if not several parties removed from the original sources, all of which rely upon the sincerity and interpretations of the initial witnesses in the first place."

I SUPPORT DOC'S DIPLOMACY WITH RESPECT TO THIS PHENOMENA ~ CERTAINLY WE HAVE ENOUGH DIVISION AMONGST THE RANKS ~ BUT I GET YOUR POINT INDEED...

WITHOUT AN HYPOTHESIS ~ WHERE WOULD >>> ALL <<< SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH BE?

Hypothesis

Andreas Cellarius hypothesis, demonstrating the planetary motions in eccentric and epicyclical orbits
A hypothesis (plural hypotheses) is a proposed explanation for a phenomenon. For a hypothesis to be a scientific hypothesis, the scientific method requires that one can test it. Scientists generally base scientific hypotheses on previous observations that cannot satisfactorily be explained with the available scientific theories. Even though the words "hypothesis" and "theory" are often used synonymously, a scientific hypothesis is not the same as a scientific theory. A working hypothesis is a provisionally accepted hypothesis proposed for further research.[1]

A different meaning of the term hypothesis is used in formal logic, to denote the antecedent of a proposition; thus in the proposition "If P, then Q", P denotes the hypothesis (or antecedent); Q can be called a consequent. P is the assumption in a (possibly counterfactual)

MOREOVER, WE ARE NOT IN SHORT SUPPLY OF HYPOTHESES A LA CASEBOOK CAFE'

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THE ABOVE BEGS THE QUESTION ~ WHICH CAME FIRST...THE HYPOTHESIS OR THE SCIENTIFIC FACT...grin

MERELY SHARING INTELLECT WHICH I KNOW CONTINUES TO INTRIGUE YOUR PASSION... wink

SHALOM...Z
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #357 on: Apr 11th, 2015, 12:31pm »

on Apr 10th, 2015, 2:15pm, jjflash wrote:
I don't view it as diplomatic, Doc, I see it more as taking responsibility to support a culture which respects and practices professional research protocol. I subsequently do not assign belief to anecdotal stories provided by writers that are often second hand if not several parties removed from the original sources, all of which rely upon the sincerity and interpretations of the initial witnesses in the first place.

As I have stated on multiple occasions, I am willing to suspend judgment. I do not want to try to tell anyone what they did or did not experience.

Belief and drawing conclusions, or even forming suppositions, however, are other matters. I simply refrain from drawing conclusions where they are not yet available. Perhaps I have not been clear on that, but I feel I have.

About Vallee, I do not currently prioritize re-reading his work and fact-checking it, seeking alternative explanations and so on (as Colavito seems to be willing, at least to some extent). If you or others wish to do so, I would support that choice and be interested in reading about what you find.


I understand,,,,,so it seems that you don't have any inclination to possibly believe that the ufo enigma could be ET, inter-dimensional, or even secret govt technology. But you do seem 'obssessed' with the idea of govt intel and disinformation ,etc with regard to the phenomenon.
If this is the case that you use the 'Null Hypothesis' how and why did you even get involved at this level with research into the enigma? Is it just about the military intel aspects that you are intrigued?
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #358 on: Apr 11th, 2015, 3:08pm »

I recently posted something about, “Culture-Bound Syndromes” by Steve Mizrach which I think puts an interesting new spin on the Psychosocial Hypothesis (PSH).

Mizrach suggests that whilst an abduction experience is temporarily dissociative (i.e. the person's normative identity is disrupted) but that this involves a voluntary act of dissociation similar to the hypnotoform trance that is witnessed in ceremonial possession rituals. These rituals are already widely recognized as therapeutic and that the subjects give themselves over voluntarily and its even argued it’s an improvement on more traditional methodology, for example when verbally trying to express one’s unconscious self on an analysts couch as it’s argued that the ‘possession’ is a psychotherapeutic technique for working through one’s problems via a dramatic interaction with people who are the significant others in the subjects life.

It’s also worth noting that the possession rituals that are referred to are a well-documented phenomenon and have been subjected to significant academic research, anyhoo, here’s a snippet:

Quote:
In psychological anthropology (specifically, ethnopsychiatry), "culture-bound syndromes" (CBSes) are recognized as unusual or abnormal behavioral episodes that appear to be "madness" or illness to outside observers, but are in fact carefully regulated, culturally governed outlets of social tension. Perhaps the most famous case is that of the Amok frenzy of Pacific Islanders, which involves a great deal of simulated (and sometimes actual) aggression toward family, friends, and neighbors. Other cases include the ataque de nervios (nervous attack) and susto (soul loss) reported by Latin Americans, and the piblotoq of the Eskimos, which may include episodes of tearing clothing, running about aimlessly, glossolalia, and coprolalia. There has even been some argument as to whether the 'universal' DSM-III diagnostic category, "schizophrenia," might in fact be a Western, folk, culture-bound syndrome.


Full post is here.

Whilst this isn’t intended to be a catch-all theory (by a long shot) I thought it provided an interesting and more specific alternative to the all-encompassing PSH, which truth be known I've found to be guilty of over-generalising multiple reports to the point of insignificance by ignoring case-specific elements (and by doing so ultimately detracting from the relevance that the PSH could otherwise offer).

Food for thought if nothing else…



Cheers.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #359 on: Apr 12th, 2015, 12:34pm »

Thanks, DrDil. I agree it's all relevant.

Some might appreciate and find comments of interest that were submitted in response to my latest blog post, 'David Jacobs and Insults to intelligence'. I did.

Part of the original post is in reply #349 of this thread. It can be viewed in full, along with the readers' comments at:

http://ufotrail.blogspot.com/2015/04/david-jacobs-and-insults-to-intelligence.html
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