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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abduction  (Read 51026 times)
INT21
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #375 on: May 29th, 2015, 2:34pm »

.....AS EVERYHTING THAT EXISTS...WAS ONCE >>> IMAGINED <<<..


There are those amongst us who insist that all our knowledge comes from inter galactic super beings (aka Aliens).

Would those people go so far as to suggest that our fair Polish chemist was visited by 'other worlders?'

HAL
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« Last Edit: May 29th, 2015, 2:35pm by INT21 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #376 on: May 29th, 2015, 4:35pm »

on May 29th, 2015, 2:34pm, INT21 wrote:
.....AS EVERYHTING THAT EXISTS...WAS ONCE >>> IMAGINED <<<..


There are those amongst us who insist that all our knowledge comes from inter galactic super beings (aka Aliens).

Would those people go so far as to suggest that our fair Polish chemist was visited by 'other worlders?'

HAL
INT21


And again a thread goes off topic .....but then maybe our esteemed gnostic Zetar is implying that Miss Curie was once abducted by aliens.

wink
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #377 on: May 29th, 2015, 5:41pm »

HAL-N-WU,

TO WIT:

"Zetar is implying that Miss Curie was once abducted by aliens."

THERE YA GO ~ PUTTIN WORDS IN MY MOUTH ~ I'M A GUESSIN MARIE CURIE'S OBSESSION WITH > RADS < ~ PUN INTENDED ~ WAS ATTRIBUTED TO HER QUEST FOR IDEAS ~ I HAVE NO OPINION NOR INSINUATION >>> THE M.C. OF MEGA RAD IDEAS <<< WAS "once abducted by aliens." ~ cool

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« Last Edit: May 29th, 2015, 10:34pm by ZETAR » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #378 on: May 30th, 2015, 04:53am »

ZETAR,

You wrote,

..."Zetar is implying that Miss Curie was once abducted by aliens."


Drwu wrote..

...And again a thread goes off topic .....but then maybe our esteemed gnostic Zetar is implying that Miss Curie was once abducted by aliens.

You do see the difference ?

By the way, she never was Miss Curie.

She was Miss Marie Skłodowska . Later to become Mrs Curie.

Just being picky.

HAL
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« Last Edit: May 30th, 2015, 04:57am by INT21 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #379 on: May 30th, 2015, 06:56am »

on May 16th, 2015, 12:30pm, INT21 wrote:
I was wondering, can a psychiatrist who does not believe in aliens fairly conduct an examination of some one claiming alien abduction. Or will he/she always be saying, maybe subconsciously ' this person is a fraud, aliens don't exist. What is the real story here?'

And conversely a psychiatrist who believes in aliens may be biased into accepting the purported abductee's story even if it isn't a very convincing one. Simply because it reenforces his/her belief.

HAL
INT21


Hi INT21, I also read Wu's comments on your post, and I tend to think nor 'fair' nor vetting for simulating 'agents' comes into it, because Psychiatrists are trained to look for symptoms of mental disorder or ABSENCE of said symptoms. Mack's contribution in this light is significant in his finding of a slightly lower incidence of symptoms/disorder in his sample group of abduction experiencers than the general population.

Meaning (assuming not all of them were infiltrators, faking abduction memories tongue): abductees on the whole are not crazy, nor does abduction memory in itself indicates some psychiatric disorder.

So imo it is not within that field's scope to determine whether people are abducted, merely to assess the likelyhood they are in the grip of a mental illness moving them to present such testimony. It may suffice if a mental health worker is trained to the level where they are capable of finding patients in reasonable mental health smiley (rather than delusional) regardless of what they describe. Mack was brilliant (so sad he was lost to us) in not deciding on the reality of abduction, one way or another, but on the quality of his subject's psychological reality. Did their mind function normally? John Mack in general says yes.


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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #380 on: May 30th, 2015, 07:23am »

HAL,

TO WIT:

"You do see the difference ?"

I IN FACT SEE/SAW THE DIFFERENCE ~ grin

TO WIT:

"There are those amongst us who insist that all our knowledge comes from inter galactic super beings (aka Aliens).

Would those people go so far as to suggest that our fair Polish chemist was visited by 'other worlders?'"

HMMMMMM ~ IT DOES APPEAR YOU NUDGED DRWU TO OPINE THIS...

TO WIT:

""Zetar is implying that Miss Curie was once abducted by aliens."

THEREFORE, I FELT IT PRUDENT TO ADDRESS YO >>> TAG TEAM <<< APPROACH grin

PICKY ~ PICKY ~ PICKY wink

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YO INFINITE STIRRING ~ ALWAYS APPRECIATED!

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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #381 on: May 30th, 2015, 09:16am »

ZETAR,

Not quite.

...And again a thread goes off topic .....but then maybe our esteemed gnostic Zetar is implying that Miss Curie was once abducted by aliens.

By missing out the first part of the sentence your response didn't appear to take into consideration that Drwu was suggesting that MAYBE you were thinking Mdm Curie was visited by aliens. Not that you were implying as much.My reading, and I may be wrong.

HAL
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #382 on: May 30th, 2015, 09:53am »

HAL,

WE CAN FIND SOMETHING MORE OF INTEREST TO >>> STIR <<< ONES SYNAPSES ~ EH rolleyes

NEVERTHELESS ~ RATHER THAN LEAVE YOU WONDERING...

TO WIT:

"Drwu was suggesting that MAYBE you were thinking Mdm Curie was visited by aliens. Not that you were implying as much.My reading, and I may be wrong."

THE SCHOLARLY APPROACH...

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AGAIN ~ IT DOES REST WITH ONES DEFINTION OF...MAYBE cool

may·be/ˈmābē/
adverb
adverb: maybe

1. perhaps; possibly.
"maybe I won't go back"

synonyms: perhaps, possibly, conceivably, it could be (that), it is possible (that), for all one knows; More
literaryperadventure, perchance

"maybe the bus will be on time today"

noun
noun: maybe; plural noun: maybes
1. a mere possibility or probability.
"no ifs, buts, or maybes"

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THAT ANXIETY AWAITING ONES RESPONSE ~ ALL IN A DAY ~ A LA CASEBOOK CAFE' grin

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« Last Edit: May 30th, 2015, 10:43am by ZETAR » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #383 on: May 30th, 2015, 11:52am »

purr and all,

I think purr raised some valid points that deserve deeper consideration in the grand scheme of the genre of alleged alien abduction. I've come to think that reviewing published papers by qualified experts is a must in understanding their fields and related work. Otherwise we're limited to partisan arguments often based on relatively uninformed opinion or, at the least, we fail to understand how and why scientists and mental health professionals arrive at their platforms.

In addition to such papers and links I already posted, I would recommend 'Psychiatric Evaluations of Asylum Seekers:Is it Ethical Practice or Advocacy?'. It's a 2007 article authored by Dr. CA Morgan, a colleague of the recently mentioned Dr. Loftus (in other words, another renowned psych expert).

The article addresses and considers the plight of refugees seeking political asylum and the roles of psychologists who evaluate them - and often advocate on their behalf. Many of the refugees claim to be torture victims in order to gain asylum. As a matter of fact, there is even a black market for obtaining stories of actual torture survivors so that details may be woven into the stories of new applicants.

I think the work makes many interesting parallels with investigation of the abduction phenom, and that it is useful in further understanding some of the dynamics. Dr. Morgan warned, for instance, that there is no scientific means to measure the effects of trauma. He cited circumstances run wild during the 1990's in which therapists unwisely tried to rely upon stories and symptoms of trauma to be indicative of the claimed events and the perceptions of the traumatized individual. That is of course not always the case.

Perhaps most interestingly, though, was that Morgan sternly warned that advocacy and treatment are not the same things, and that advocacy does not necessarily best support the treatment or the needs of the individual. He suggested that mental health professionals are often unqualified to dissect and evaluate the validity of the claimed traumatic experiences, and that doing so is outside the scope of their training. Much more importantly, he maintained, would be providing the traumatized individual treatment that would facilitate them meeting their living needs and improving their qualities of life.

I thought it a relevant work. Many lessons could be drawn not only to advocacy vs. treatment in the mental health community, but advocacy vs. investigation when those mental health pros turn abduction-researcher. I'd also argue that such dynamics would certainly be relevant among self-described investigators who attempt to implement therapeutic-like techniques, but actually practice advocacy of alleged abduction, all while completely lacking any training whatsoever as a mental health pro.
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #384 on: May 30th, 2015, 3:00pm »

This also ties in and was an interesting read......
http://www.publishersweekly.com/978-0-520-22432-2
THE LURE OF THE EDGE: Scientific Passions, Religious Beliefs, and the Pursuit of UFOs

Brenda Denzler, Author
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #385 on: May 31st, 2015, 11:44am »

on May 18th, 2015, 7:38pm, Bubbles wrote:
My psychiatrist is only on one end of the spectrum (He does not believe in aliens...visiting this planet anyhow). I wish I had access to one that was at least open to the idea. He believes my belief in aliens is delusional and that the contacts I have had with them are simply hallucinations. I don't think he is right, but I also realize I could be wrong. I just don't believe that I am wrong. I try to be open minded. So I continue to see the psychiatrist.

I can see what you are talking about in any case. It seems that they might be bias either way. Instead of taking an honest middle ground.


Bubbles, 'not believing in aliens' is fine, although I believe when solving problems we ideally should not believe in anything at all. If however your psychiatrist is absolutely sure, BELIEVES that aliens/ETs have never visited our world, there exists imo a risk of unfairness (as INT21 proposes) to patients presenting continuing, vivid, emotionally intense Abduction/Contact experiences. (If a patient reports meeting/conversing with such visitors, the psychiatrist's worldview alone then forces labels like hallucination/delusion getting slapped on the abduction story and teller.)

Establishing alien reality is outside Psychiatry's purview. (It is virtually impossible to prove aliens are/aren't visiting, so complete certainty either way seems not entirely rational for anybody.) laugh

I'm just a layperson, knowing nuttin from nuttin, but I'd say mental health professionals dealing with patients reporting abduction experiences ought not to bring too heavy baggage into the diagnostic process. Taking the time to look at how someone on the whole lives their life, functions, thinks, might yield a better picture. (There's no known disorder which limits itself to abduction experience exclusively. Whether one is troubled or OK, it kinda spreads over all of life.)

My idea of a good psychiatrist would be: someone fascinated by minds.


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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #386 on: May 31st, 2015, 11:58am »

PURR,

TO WIT:

"Establishing alien reality is outside Psychiatry's purview. (It is virtually impossible to prove aliens are/aren't visiting, so complete certainty either way seems not entirely rational for anybody.)"

THE DIFFICULTY WITH ABOVE OVERLAPS WITH MOST...IF NOT ALL (MYSELF INCLUDED) WHEN WE PONDER/SPECULATE THE COMPEXITY OF THE UNKNOWN ~ OR AS HAL PUTS IT ~ THAT WHICH WE HAVE NOT EXPERIMENTED ENOUGH ON TO BREED NEW IDEAS/THEORIES...

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"My idea of a good psychiatrist would be: someone fascinated by minds."

INDEED!

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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #387 on: May 31st, 2015, 12:07pm »

Honest analyst to purported ufo abductee.

'I'm sorry, I can't offer any explanation as I don't believe in ufos'

Abductee,

So, your logic precludes the existence of the ufo hence I could not have been abducted by crew of said craft.

Analist.

Yes, exactly. I'm so glad you understand'

Abductee,

'I'm so glad you were honest with me. Now , one quick question before I leave.

DO you believe in God ?'

Analyst.

'Yes, of course.'

Abductee,

'why'.



HAL
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #388 on: May 31st, 2015, 12:11pm »

Bubbles,

You could use the life of the lately deceased mathematician John Nash as an indication that, even if something in you mind is making you have these beliefs, it isn't the end of the world.

Half the battle is knowing.

HAL
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xx Re: Critical Analysis of Research of Alien Abducti
« Reply #389 on: May 31st, 2015, 1:10pm »

on May 31st, 2015, 12:11pm, INT21 wrote:
Bubbles,

You could use the life of the lately deceased mathematician John Nash as an indication that, even if something in you mind is making you have these beliefs, it isn't the end of the world.

Half the battle is knowing.

HAL
INT21


Agreed. Not the end of the world.

I am just not sure at this point if it is one thing or the other (real - not real).

On a positive note I have not had any alien encounters in a long time. Over a year now.
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