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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: The Bible and Alleged UFO Events  (Read 9180 times)
hyundisonata
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xx Re: The Bible and Alleged UFO Events
« Reply #30 on: Nov 1st, 2014, 5:42pm »

Hal your thoughts are crowded by modern technology so its easy for us to link a sighting to an aircraft or satellite, these guys from the past never had that luxury yet they drew pictures of flying crafts so you have to question where they got the insight from and we cannot claim they got it from the TV or concord flying over can we. My question about all religions has to be why they all make similar claims of beings that live in the sky ,you do not see people looking at the ground when worshiping some god its always upwards. Now we can understand such as the Egyptians with the sun and moon gods but thatís about it so where did the rest come from lol.
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xx Re: The Bible and Alleged UFO Events
« Reply #31 on: Nov 1st, 2014, 5:58pm »

hyundisonata, good to see you posting again although we don't always agree. Hope all is well.

I don't find it surprising that man would look upwards and outward. The vastness is huge and unreachable by physical means. As for the ground, what's in it is attainable to some extent. There are beliefs of the underground and seas too. However, I think the sky especially at night presents the bigger challenge as to understanding what is out there and what our part plays in it all. That would apply today as well as the past.

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xx Re: The Bible and Alleged UFO Events
« Reply #32 on: Nov 1st, 2014, 6:09pm »

Thatís how you would expect the thought to be ED but for cave men to draw UFO and then throughout history artists painting UFO you have to question why they drew machines that hadnít even been thought about let alone built, it seems we are no wiser than that caveman as we are still asking the same questions only we argue about it more.
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xx Re: The Bible and Alleged UFO Events
« Reply #33 on: Nov 1st, 2014, 6:16pm »

on Nov 1st, 2014, 3:43pm, drwu23 wrote:
I thought Biblical scholars and experts about the Bible were one and the same......or perhaps you can clarify what you mean?


huh

NO one side are opposed to biblical and the other side believes in the biblical! Who is correct is in debate. Who's side is right! Neither can prove their point.

Lone
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xx Re: The Bible and Alleged UFO Events
« Reply #34 on: Nov 1st, 2014, 6:28pm »

on Nov 1st, 2014, 5:29pm, Double Nought Spy wrote:
So... ignore the people who can read Hebrew, Sanskrit or whatever, and who have made a career of studying the history of the region and time the books are from, because Confirmation Bias, and lap up what some Ufologist thinks he sees in the King James version? Or am I missing something here?


Nope...just saying these people are not gods! Six million dollars and a piece of paper does not always make them right or some GOD on high. If these type people tell you farts come out purple with no smell are you going to buy it because they can read farts? Point being not ignore them but do not worship everything they say or hinge on every word.

As far as the Bible goes I do not put much in the myths that book contains. But thats me.
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xx Re: The Bible and Alleged UFO Events
« Reply #35 on: Nov 1st, 2014, 7:10pm »

on Nov 1st, 2014, 6:09pm, hyundisonata wrote:
Thatís how you would expect the thought to be ED but for cave men to draw UFO and then throughout history artists painting UFO you have to question why they drew machines that hadnít even been thought about let alone built, it seems we are no wiser than that caveman as we are still asking the same questions only we argue about it more.

Where this always breaks down is the interpretation of the drawings. Are they actual recordings of physical objects seen in the sky or other? The "other" gets into the academia opinion debates.

Our immediate mindset is it's a drawing of something in the sky but what it the mindset of the ancient artist? This is where a knowledge of the culture and practices of these people need to be applied and you can't always go on initial impressions. This, of course, does not mean some are not actual things seen. Then again the next question is are they an accurate representation or embellished for various reasons? We will never really know.
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xx Re: The Bible and Alleged UFO Events
« Reply #36 on: Nov 1st, 2014, 8:27pm »

on Nov 1st, 2014, 12:09pm, Double Nought Spy wrote:
Oh come on, JJ! Are you serious? Basing theories about what the Bible says on accurate translations is well known to take all the fun out of the enterprise. Those "experts" and their degrees in relevant fields are just best ignored. Don't even read what they have to say about it, and don't even think of inviting them to your shindigs. wink


I hear ya...
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xx Re: The Bible and Alleged UFO Events
« Reply #37 on: Nov 1st, 2014, 8:44pm »

I'm not particularly interested in debating subjective interpretations anymore than anybody else. Neither do I think religious texts should necessarily be studied as indicative of literal or historical events. In fact, I'm sure they should not.

I do think, though, that the voices of qualified experts are entitled to a place at the table. I also think their work should be considered and specific points thereof dissected as opposed to the often seen arguments covering nebulous, unspecific references in which a perceived body of evidence spans hundreds and thousands of years.

For example, below is post #14 from this thread. It contains links to posts composed by scholars, one of whom is an expert on ancient Egypt, addressing why some of the Egyptian artwork is misinterpreted as related to UFOs. There is also a well researched piece on select religious art, often incorrectly thought to represent UFOs, by DrDil, who participated for a long time here at UFO Casebook.

Perhaps someone might care to address and/or challenge some specific points raised within the posts, and offer evidence-based reasons for their disagreements.

on Oct 18th, 2014, 10:36am, jjflash wrote:
From Dr. Michael Heiser at 'UFO Religions':


Helicopters and Spaceships in Ancient Egyptian Hieroglyphs?

UFO Religions

October 17, 2014

Hardly.

When it comes to internet mythology about alleged alien assistance to the ancient Egyptians, the hieroglyphs in the picture are ground zero. As with the case of the lightbulb in Egyptian art, and the mis-identified picture of an alien grey in an Egyptian wall painting, the claim that there were technologically advanced flying craft in ancient Egypt is utterly bogus.

The glyphs in question are in the temple of Seti I at Abydos. I have blogged about these glyphs before, explaining that they are a well-known and classic instance of hieroglyphic superimposition ó a palimpset. In briefest terms, the panel in Seti Iís tomb on which the current glyphs was originally carved with a set of ďnormalĒ hieroglyphs. At a subsequent point in time, the glyphs were plastered over and re-carved ó a well-known phenomenon in ancient Egyptian monumental writing. After centuries of time, the plaster came off, revealing what we see now ó two sets of hieroglyphs superimposed. That is why some of the shapes on this panel are unlike any others in Egypt.

The mdw-ntr website has a detailed, thorough, splendidly illustrated step-by-step explanation of this process. It is absolutely certain that these hieroglyphs are the result of carving one set of glyphs over another for a simple reason: each set of glyphs is known from other texts. It is quite easy to illustrate how the ďhelicopterĒ came about from both sets of glyphs. If you want the truth, itís all here.

See original post for supporting links:

http://drmsh.com/2014/10/17/helicopters-and-spaceships-in-ancient-egyptian-hieroglyphs/

=============================================

As referenced by Dr. Heiser, the mdw-ntr website is operated by Medew Netcher and is rich in Egyptian-related content, including study courses, language, artifacts and more. The specific post referenced, 'Aliens And Space Crafts in Ancient Egyptian Temple - Explained', may (and should, if you're interested in alleged UFOs in Egyptian glyphs) be viewed at:

http://mdw-ntr.com/blogs/all-categories/articles/item/2-aliens-and-space-crafts-in-ancient-egyptian-temple-debunked#.VEKGwGddWXs

On a related note, UFO Casebook's DrDil did an informative and well researched piece in 2007 titled, 'UFO's In Sacred Works Of Art', in which the author clarified some misinterpretations commonly held. The post may be viewed at:

http://ufodigest.com/news/0707/sacredart.html
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xx Re: The Bible and Alleged UFO Events
« Reply #38 on: Nov 2nd, 2014, 06:11am »

Ufodigest org (who appears to no longer be with us) wrote...

.. If these type people tell you farts come out purple with no smell are you going to buy it because they can read farts?

Facetious as this may seem, it is a good example.

Unlike the real basis for cave drawings etc, this can easily be confirmed or refuted by simple experiment and observation.
The person who says that the afore mentioned farts are none smelly and have a purple hue can easily be shown to be wrong.

I had a brother in law who, being of an inquisitive turn of mind, and being slightly drunk, decided to prove that farts are inflammable. With the aid of a lighted match and the previous days curry he provided the necessary gas (mostly methane; or so I'm told) and proved that they do indeed burn. With a yellow flame.

Sadly he forgot to allow for the burn-back as the gas supply ran out.

Bad place to have a blister.

We called him a hero, martyr for investigative science. His sister called him a vile pig.

HAL
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xx Re: The Bible and Alleged UFO Events
« Reply #39 on: Nov 2nd, 2014, 06:31am »

Hyundisonata,

...yet they drew pictures of flying crafts so you have to question where they got the insight from..

No, they drew pictue that we interpret as flying objects, spacemen etc.

Edvard Munk painted 'the scream' That was based on his inner turmoil, not on something he saw. I.E, it came out of his head.
All the great paintings depicting hell and heaven, no one has ever seen such things, they are all human constructs.

As for why always from the sky. That's easy if you accept that all organised religions are actually about people control.

Is you want people to think you have some all powerful deity backing you up, one that is inaccessible to very one but you; 'caise you have a hot line to the almighty, then you place it where no one can prove it doesn't exist.

It becomes an all powerful, invisible power 'up there' someplace.

Then defy the non believers to prove otherwise.

It's that easy.

Oh yes, if your lot had won the referendum, would you still be claiming it was rigged ?

HAL
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xx Re: The Bible and Alleged UFO Events
« Reply #40 on: Nov 2nd, 2014, 09:08am »

on Nov 1st, 2014, 6:16pm, LoneGunMan wrote:
NO one side are opposed to biblical and the other side believes in the biblical! Who is correct is in debate. Who's side is right! Neither can prove their point.

Lone


Can you give a specific example because that's not clear imo....?

There are many kinds of Biblical scholars: some are atheists, some liberal Christians, and others are theists and fundamentalists. But none of those approach it from any alien point of view. That was my main point in that the amateurs and ufo believers are the ones making these alien connections and not true Biblical scholars.
« Last Edit: Nov 2nd, 2014, 09:37am by drwu23 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: The Bible and Alleged UFO Events
« Reply #41 on: Nov 3rd, 2014, 08:42am »

on Nov 2nd, 2014, 09:08am, drwu23 wrote:
But none of those approach it from any alien point of view.



For me it depends on the persons definition of the word,
"ALIEN".

Since NO ONE, can prove to me, GOD is, this or that, GOD is unknown or,
"ALIEN"
not ET or EBE,
If you consider the word GOD means to create, then it is not
"ALIEN" cos we can observe, a nebula creating stars, or a supernova do what it does, or as simple as a grass seed growing from itself.

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xx Re: The Bible and Alleged UFO Events
« Reply #42 on: Nov 3rd, 2014, 08:57am »

on Nov 3rd, 2014, 08:42am, MOKSHA wrote:
For me it depends on the persons definition of the word,
"ALIEN".

Since NO ONE, can prove to me, GOD is, this or that, GOD is unknown or,
"ALIEN"
not ET or EBE,
If you consider the word GOD means to create, then it is not
"ALIEN" cos we can observe, a nebula creating stars, or a supernova do what it does, or as simple as a grass seed growing from itself.



Terms do matter but the traditional understanding of the word God ( which btw derives from the German word Gott and not Hebrew or Aramaic) is referring to the Creator of the Universe as believed in the Bible. Other cultures have slightly different terms and beliefs for their Creator but again they are not referring to the idea that God is an actual ET as in a space alien from another planet as in the Sitchin Annunaki meme but are referring to a metaphysical being.

IMO they are completely different ideas yet some wish to mingle them together for whatever reasons.
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xx Re: The Bible and Alleged UFO Events
« Reply #43 on: Nov 3rd, 2014, 09:13am »

BTW....I've mentioned it before but those who are interested in historical appearances of ET in the Bible and in mankind's past and the possible long term manipulation of humans by ET would do well to read The Gods Of Eden by William Bramley. It's by far the most comprehensive book I have read on the subject.
Sitchin's books also use the same idea, but focus on primarily the Annunaki claim, though he mentions Biblical aspects in at least one or two of his books. Sitchin's books predate Bramley's book but Bramley's book is more involved regarding later historical events allegedly influenced by these unknown 'aliens'.

There are a few other writers who's books are a bit more outlandish than those and can be found on various web sites with this ancient alien theme...or should I say meme?
grin

btw...Derek Willis who started The Aldebaran thread also seems to believe that aliens have been secretly manipulating mankind for centuries if not longer and this is written about on his linked to home Aldebaran web site on his thread here.
« Last Edit: Nov 3rd, 2014, 09:19am by drwu23 » User IP Logged

hyundisonata
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xx Re: The Bible and Alleged UFO Events
« Reply #44 on: Dec 1st, 2014, 04:52am »

Lol Hal that battle aint over until the fat lady sings, fair enough argument as they adopted everything as gods especially the sun and moon and thatís all right to a point. If the artist was or attempting to display the horrors of hell etc then it would have been more in line with the thought of the time. Personally I would say they painted what they saw on a regular basis and being outside their understanding adopted them to the then god. Now if we still went about on donkeys and science never happened then we would still be looking at them as say gods chariot, we have flying machines that offer an insight to what the artist was painting and can see they are modes of transport only we know that they are not gods, this trying to fit a modern machine into something of the time painted is nothing more than denial and the only reason I can think of for such mindset is fear. Fear of something more intelligent or superior kicking us off the top of the food chain.
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