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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: What music are you listening to now?  (Read 17338 times)
icepick
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xx Re: What music are you listening to now?
« Reply #885 on: Mar 11th, 2012, 08:50am »

Thanks Lone, now I know the name. He is one of those rather unsung folks who is really very good on that instrument set, and deserves far more credit than he received in my opinion.

This happens to far too many great musicians. I knew an old guy in the little town I'm from in Virginia who had the Dobro mastered like nobody I ever heard. He did achieve a little recognition somehow, but not nearly enough. As a result, none of his music ever got recorded that I know of. One has to wonder how many people this happens to.
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xx Re: What music are you listening to now?
« Reply #886 on: Mar 11th, 2012, 10:55am »

on Mar 10th, 2012, 11:57pm, icepick wrote:
A couple of glaring vacancies every time Wu? Both are not well known, I don't even know their names. One played for Kansas, the other for Bloodrock. The reason for their not being mentioned? Probably because they never indulged in solos much. But they held that highly structured/arranged philosophy which truly great keyboard players must have.

This is the big problem where rating keyboard players is concerned. They are about 70% of the depth of every band that features one. But if they are too lax about their background parts, you quickly get a roller rink sound. When done properly, those parts must be played very precise at all times to sound right. Guitarists can get rowdy, or have off days and get away with it. Keyboard players have no such luxury. Especially if the primary keyboard they use is an organ. Hence the chord arrangements they create for every tune is far more indicative of their talent than their solos.

Yeah, it's quite understandable why so many people miss this fact. The rhythym/background/fill just doesn't seem that glamorous, does it? It's like being a bass player. You are the Rodney Dangerfield of music.

On the other hand, I guess you could legitimately point out that the only reason very many people know about Elmore James is because the likes of Hendrix and Clapton aped about the guy so much?

I do agree with your assertion that there are many great musicians who have been unjustly slighted by ever greatest list ever created though. It's a given. Music is an art form, so it's impossible to get that far beyond one's personal tastes in most cases, isn't it?

I was just thinking about that list at Rolling Stone which rates Dylan as the sixth best singer of all time. Hard to get off the floor every time I think about it. And I do like much of Dylan's stuff. But sing? ROFLMAO!

I see but one saving grace where rating musicians is concerned. The timeless aspect of music written by truly great artists keeps the pulp off most of these lists. Shall we remind the folks at the Grammies about this before the next Milli Vanilli shows up? grin


Steve Walsh did the boards for Kansas, another 'prog' band I liked....never really listened to Bloodrock much but I know of them.
I have to disagree with you on Lord...I think Wakeman and Emerson are better but then I liked their bands better than Purple who I often found boring at times. And as I said there are many jazz fusion players that are better than all 3 of them imho.
I don't know what you hear in Lord and I just recently replayed the best Purple lp's. Perhaps he's as good as you think but I simply don't hear that in most of the tracks they did. Maybe the problem is that the music was a bit too simplistic for me since I was heavily into early prog then. I'll give Lord another listen...what specific tracks do you think he really shined on?

ps; listen to the keyboard work by Emerson on the first ELP...I never heard Lord do anything even remotely as complex and beautiful as this with Purple.
« Last Edit: Mar 11th, 2012, 10:58am by drwu23 » User IP Logged

icepick
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xx Re: What music are you listening to now?
« Reply #887 on: Mar 11th, 2012, 2:28pm »

It has nothing to do with his work in rock Wu. The man is a Classical artist as well. He's extremely good in rock. One of the very best. But it's in orchestral music that he truly shines. There aren't enough pieces in a rock band to accommodate the way this type of composer thinks. Nor is rock structured enough.

Although you really have to admire his use of distortion on that Hammond. No other organ player ever figured out how to create distortion with an organ by overdriving the amp. Not one. They all have to use an electronic aid like I did. Your pal Hensley could almost get it, but I was able to get that far as well. Any further and ......... well it would be a shame to call it music. Maybe it had something to do with the way he often played that Hammond like a piano, maybe it didn't. I no longer struggle with it. I really admire the feat, but I no longer indulge in a hobby where I often had to reproduce the sound.

But do you know how much it cost me to convert a C3 Hammond from Leslies to a pair of Marshal amps? I just had to try. I'm sure you understand.

Emerson and Wakeman were are both brilliant artists. I'm not denying that. One big clue about how much I admire a musician is when you hear me call them an artist by the way. I always try to make that distinction. But Wakeman and Emerson are both very much by the book, believe it or not. And there is nothing wrong with that. 99.9% of all keyboard players are. I learned very quick why most of the greats started with piano lessons when they were five or six. Every one of the people we've mentioned here did. Sure, you might, MIGHT, get away with one or two things using electronic equipment. But try it on a baby grand. It's when they play those that you know how much a keyboard player shines. By the way, I stank on one of those. You have to hit every key P E R F E C T L Y. Hence the reason such a high percentage are by the book. I really should have chosen something else to play considering my personality type. Too much of a perfectionist, and I started too late to perfect the skill.

My hat is off to every one of those people. You should take a piece of advice from me about ranking any musician in my opinion. Avoid labeling any great artist as better or best. Compile your list of greats, just so you can keep them separated from the commercialized pulp out there. God only knows there are far too many of those.

Notice how I managed to limit the use of names in this particular post? If I were to maintain what I'm preaching here, then I would still be posting when? Next June or something? Like I pointed out earlier, one thing you said earlier in this discussion is oh so very true. There is a limitless amount of great artists out there who never received any real recognition at all. At least the group seems limitless. I feel these ranking things people do causes a lot of that. But I will make one assertion here and stick to it. put any of the people we've mention in any of our discussions along these lines in a band together, and they will be able to hang. That's probably the best test of all.

I probably should refrain from these things, but never will. I get far too picky and passionate about the matter. Once you've been involved in music at least a tendency towards that attitude may be natural though. But have you ever noticed how many musicians can get along with any of their peers only so long? Now this is a syndrome I made a point of avoiding during my indulgence.

On the subject of keyboards though, it really matters not whether they are by the book or not when you measure their contribution to their band. Providing they are good of course. Their set of instruments is going to increase the depth of sound so much ......... it's why I prefer bands that feature them. So I guess you're getting ready to point out they are nearly a requirement in Progressive Rock? Don't bother. Actually I should say allow me .......... and good luck to anyone trying to pull off the sound of this genre without one. They are as much of a feature here as they are in Classical. For good reason in my opinion. They are to prog rock what a sax is to Jazz. Needed. In my opinion anyway.

I suppose I should recommend a concerto, but given the subject I'm not going to. Apples and oranges when you start mixing in hardcore composing in my opinion. You might try that Concerto for guitar and violin or the Gemini Suite, but neither are anywhere near the best examples.

So before I cut this off I should point out that both Emerson and Wakeman have taken shots at this type of thing as well, and produced good results as well. See? It really is nearly impossible to separate these people once they get to this level. They're just great, and that's it.

And yes, I am very envious. I only wish I could pull off a single example of what any of this group spits out as a matter of routine. Remember that they are getting up there as well. Music is really going to feel it when this particular generation of artists passes. I have a hunch about what inspired them, but nothing for positive. Whatever it is, it's substantial, and I wish they could spread it around amongst the younger group before leaving ...........

Music. I suspect my life would be bored to tears if it had not been there.
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xx Re: What music are you listening to now?
« Reply #888 on: Mar 11th, 2012, 3:17pm »

I take Emerson over Wakeman any day, Wakeman might have the edge but Emerson had much more aggressive tendancies and much more mischievious you didn`t quite know what was coming next.
No one beat his moog synth style and sound, Relayer was Yes finest album with no Wakeman on board, Patrick Moraz came in for this one Yes album and nailed it, that said had Vangelis joined this would have been incredible.
My favourite keyboard player Tony Carey of Rainbow late 75-76, he was a demon and his keyboard solos sounded like a symphony without the orchestra! Sadly Blackmore didn`t like his personality and only lasted the one studio album and the live epic On Stage, a few more recent Rainbow live albums documenting the band between 75-78 have been released as live albums.
Classically trained and a genius, later went on doing film scores etc. PowerKnight wink
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xx Re: What music are you listening to now?
« Reply #889 on: Mar 11th, 2012, 5:39pm »

I believe it's like I just got through saying PK. I don't think you can separate these guys. They are simply way too good.

On the majority of instruments one writes. But keyboard players have to build structures, or as is normally said, compose. It's a different world.

I think every band should have a good one. Think about all that added depth. And they help bass players keep guitarists honest as well, so the song really will remain the same. In my mind a lot of guitar players have way too much fun PK. A very creative type instrument to say the least, but look at how much freedom they offer the person playing it. Great for jams at concerts though.

But how many times did you not know the song until you heard the words? In my opinion guitars are at their best supercharging an audience. That ......... they are great for. I wish I had chose that instrument.

Tim
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xx Re: What music are you listening to now?
« Reply #890 on: Mar 11th, 2012, 5:57pm »

Ever think about music in the days of the Troubadors PK? When they had hardly any instruments?

Look at how spoiled we are today with our righteous spread of sounds. Guitars to make the music ultra dynamic. Keyboards to add depth. Throw in a Sax and give it some soul ........... no real reason to stop there, correct?

How pitiful their listening experience must have been. Where will music be in another six hundred years? Will they need every instrument of the day to get the ultimate sound like we do today? I know one thing. I'm glad we don't rely on troubadors today.
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xx Re: What music are you listening to now?
« Reply #891 on: Mar 11th, 2012, 7:14pm »

on Mar 11th, 2012, 3:17pm, PowerKnight wrote:
I take Emerson over Wakeman any day, Wakeman might have the edge but Emerson had much more aggressive tendancies and much more mischievious you didn`t quite know what was coming next.
No one beat his moog synth style and sound, Relayer was Yes finest album with no Wakeman on board, Patrick Moraz came in for this one Yes album and nailed it, that said had Vangelis joined this would have been incredible.
My favourite keyboard player Tony Carey of Rainbow late 75-76, he was a demon and his keyboard solos sounded like a symphony without the orchestra! Sadly Blackmore didn`t like his personality and only lasted the one studio album and the live epic On Stage, a few more recent Rainbow live albums documenting the band between 75-78 have been released as live albums.
Classically trained and a genius, later went on doing film scores etc. PowerKnight wink


I'm a Yes fan..big time, Close to the Edge is their best lp. wink...but Relayer is also excellent but I never cared for Moraz's keyboard style. It's cold.
For me it's a tough call since I really like Emerson's work on the first ELP and Wakeman's work on Close To The Edge,.
http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=105
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xx Re: What music are you listening to now?
« Reply #892 on: Mar 12th, 2012, 2:46pm »

Relayer is a masterpiece especially The Gates Of Delirium, it`s a complete symphony not forgetting the manic and intense Sound Chaser, but what a way to end the album...To Be Over.
You can finally catch your breath on this beautiful ballad, Steve Howe once said creatively Relayer was their peak album. Close To The Edge is brilliant, Moraz gave that album something Wakeman couldn`t muster in the vein of Relayer.
The much touted Vangelis was to join in 74 for the Relayer album but sadly it never happened, had he joined he would have created a whole new dimension in Yes. He later went on to work with Anderson, both Wakeman and Emerson are the biz, 70s prog rock rules! PowerKnight wink
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xx Re: What music are you listening to now?
« Reply #893 on: Mar 12th, 2012, 2:50pm »

on Mar 12th, 2012, 2:46pm, PowerKnight wrote:
Relayer is a masterpiece especially The Gates Of Delirium, it`s a complete symphony not forgetting the manic and intense Sound Chaser, but what a way to end the album...To Be Over.
You can finally catch your breath on this beautiful ballad, Steve Howe once said creatively Relayer was their peak album. Close To The Edge is brilliant, Moraz gave that album something Wakeman couldn`t muster in the vein of Relayer.
The much touted Vangelis was to join in 74 for the Relayer album but sadly it never happened, had he joined he would have created a whole new dimension in Yes. He later went on to work with Anderson, both Wakeman and Emerson are the biz, 70s prog rock rules! PowerKnight wink


Close To The Edge is better...don't care what Howe thinks. wink
My problem with Relayer is its lack of strong pleasing melodies on the longer pieces. It's a cold album to me and they have written far prettier things in the past than To Be Over..imo.
btw... if you look at that link to Prog Archives..-and these are hard core proggers like me- ..Close To The Edge gets a slightly higher rating that Relayer.

link to their best of symphonic prog lp's
http://www.progarchives.com/subgenre.asp?style=4
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xx Re: What music are you listening to now?
« Reply #894 on: Mar 12th, 2012, 3:10pm »

I`m a Relayer freak and it`s one of my all time fave albums, yes I know a close friend of mine is a Yes fantatic and Close To The Edge is his Yes album. That said Yes have created so many great albums.
ELPs finest and my all time fave, Brain Salad Surgery, especially Karn Evil 9 Parts 1-3. PowerKnight wink
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xx Re: What music are you listening to now?
« Reply #895 on: Mar 12th, 2012, 3:29pm »

on Mar 12th, 2012, 3:10pm, PowerKnight wrote:
I`m a Relayer freak and it`s one of my all time fave albums, yes I know a close friend of mine is a Yes fantatic and Close To The Edge is his Yes album. That said Yes have created so many great albums.
ELPs finest and my all time fave, Brain Salad Surgery, especially Karn Evil 9 Parts 1-3. PowerKnight wink


Brain Salad is their magnum opus lp but I always liked the first one a little better but then I was usually stoned when I heard it. grin

ps: I'm going to play Relayer at home tonight ..been a while since I played it. cool
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xx Re: What music are you listening to now?
« Reply #896 on: Mar 12th, 2012, 4:02pm »

Brain Salad was their ultimate achievement, Giger`s artwork concept complemented the whole package.
Did you know the idea came to him when passing an old possibly steam train when he was younger.
He improvised the idea, the woman`s face was the wife of his but later divorced, Emerson once said if Giger had played an instrument he would have been in the band no sweat! Roger Dean again was a genius and remains one of my fave artists...fave Yes cover...Relayer! PowerKnight wink
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xx Re: What music are you listening to now?
« Reply #897 on: Mar 12th, 2012, 4:28pm »

on Mar 12th, 2012, 4:02pm, PowerKnight wrote:
Brain Salad was their ultimate achievement, Giger`s artwork concept complemented the whole package.
Did you know the idea came to him when passing an old possibly steam train when he was younger.
He improvised the idea, the woman`s face was the wife of his but later divorced, Emerson once said if Giger had played an instrument he would have been in the band no sweat! Roger Dean again was a genius and remains one of my fave artists...fave Yes cover...Relayer! PowerKnight wink


Here I can agree...best Dean cover hands down.
grin

btw...did you listen to the Greenslade tracks I linked to?
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xx Re: What music are you listening to now?
« Reply #898 on: Mar 13th, 2012, 2:17pm »

HR Giger is literally a real genius, often described as a Dali of his generation in comparison. Never ever heard Greenslade and I know I should of but it never happened, I`ll have to checkout your link! Talking of album artwork for bands Phil Travers Moody Blues artwork covers...phew...you can get lost staring at them forever.
The crowning glory has to go to Ken Kelly/Rainbow Rising...once you see it you never forget it...Magnificient in all it`s glory. PowerKnight wink
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xx Re: What music are you listening to now?
« Reply #899 on: Mar 14th, 2012, 3:23pm »

on Mar 11th, 2012, 7:14pm, drwu23 wrote:
I'm a Yes fan..big time, Close to the Edge is their best lp. wink...but Relayer is also excellent but I never cared for Moraz's keyboard style. It's cold.
For me it's a tough call since I really like Emerson's work on the first ELP and Wakeman's work on Close To The Edge,.
http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=105


Cold? As in a lack of soul? No, not as in soul music, but you probably know that.

This can be an issue with keyboards, so long as you aren't thinking solos. Solos are a very small, unimportant piece actually, of the role of this group of instruments. But everybody seems to hang on them.

But if it's the depth part of keyboards you're referring to, it can definitely destroy any tune involved. I use a different term though. Clinical. Because that's what it makes me think and feel.

Any band featuring a set of boards should have a depth in their music that leaves one moved. Too many do not. And even the best has their bad moments. Understandable, considering the structure involved, but the great ones overcome this.

That said, this is an area where Walsh beats Wakeman hands down. It's very easy to sit back and get lost in those tunes by Kansas. Not nearly as easy to do so with the music of Yes. In short, I've always thought Wakeman did great with solos, but failed miserably at his primary job. Since the talent is there, perhaps this has something to do with other issues? Just sayin' ......... but I've always felt much more satisfied after listening to Kansas than Yes.

Point of Know Return being an excellent example in my opinion.
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