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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Hey, Islam! Enough Already!  (Read 4471 times)
tommi01
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xx Re: Hey, Islam! Enough Already!
« Reply #60 on: Sep 2nd, 2016, 3:40pm »

None of this means that taking Saddam out of Iraq wasn't a good thing to do. The problem is that the there was too much pressure to remove troops too fast and leave the area too soon because of public opinion like this.

Do you condemn Julian Assange as well because his leak of the diplomatic cables ushered in the Arab awakening along with some help from western governments?

The objective was to give freedom to people who could for once express opinions towards creating democracies without being killed for their politics...

Everything we are talking about on this thread is the enemy of that. Not Bush.




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xx Re: Hey, Islam! Enough Already!
« Reply #61 on: Sep 2nd, 2016, 4:03pm »

Are you saying Assange is the enemy of Truth? rolleyes
And while we are discussing or dissing and cussing lsam,you are aware there there aremany variants of it in Uzbekistan wherewe dont see the kind of sectarianism..and ..arab springs,,disruptions we see in the ME due to the UK and US interference,In fact Uzbekistan once joined the 9/11 anti terror campaign, and even hosted an air base to launch bombing in afghanistan..slowly..strange things began to happen..resulting in what led to a massacre by thestate..and an ousting of the US base..
The relationship between Uzbekistan and the United States began to deteriorate after the so-called "colour revolutions" in Georgia and Ukraine (and to a lesser extent Kyrgyzstan). When the U.S. joined in a call for an independent international investigation of the bloody events at Andijan, the relationship further declined, and President Islam Karimov changed the political alignment of the country to bring it closer to Russia and China.
wikipedia..
In late July 2005, the government of Uzbekistan, whose president just died today..rip..ordered the United States to vacate an air base in Karshi-Kanabad (near Uzbekistan's border with Afghanistan) within 180 days. Karimov had offered use of the base to the U.S. shortly after 9/11. It is also believed by some Uzbeks that the protests in Andijan were brought about by the U.K. and U.S. influences in the area of Andijan. This is another reason for the hostility between Uzbekistan and the West.


We just cant seem to help ourselves can we?..is it genetic you think? cool
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xx Re: Hey, Islam! Enough Already!
« Reply #62 on: Sep 2nd, 2016, 4:42pm »

What exact variants of Islam in Uzbekistan are you talking about?

And what, pray tell, does this have to do with our discussion?

And by the way, probably not a bastion of freedom as well:

Alleged human rights abuses
Karimov's government has often been accused of human rights atrocities, including forced child labor, the killing of unarmed protesters and even boiling protesters alive.
Human Rights Watch calls the country's human rights record "atrocious," saying "thousands are imprisoned on politically-motivated charges. Torture is endemic in the criminal justice system. Authorities continue to crack down on civil society activists, opposition members, and journalists."
Reporters Without Borders ranks Uzbekistan 166th out of 180 countries in terms of press freedom, noting that "Karimov subjects his country to the strictest censorship. No fewer than nine journalists are rotting in prison in the most abominable conditions."

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/02/asia/uzbekistan-president-islam-karimov-dead/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_topstories+%28RSS%3A+CNN+-+Top+Stories%29

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xx Re: Hey, Islam! Enough Already!
« Reply #63 on: Sep 2nd, 2016, 4:49pm »

I can hear the cognitive dissonance in the distance..

grin

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I can assure you... flipping the switch doesn't hurt and is actually about the damn most liberating personal thing you can do.
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xx Re: Hey, Islam! Enough Already!
« Reply #64 on: Sep 2nd, 2016, 4:56pm »

on Sep 2nd, 2016, 4:42pm, tommi01 wrote:
What exact variants of Islam in Uzbekistan are you talking about?

And what, pray tell, does this have to do with our discussion?

And by the way, probably not a bastion of freedom as well:

Alleged human rights abuses
Karimov's government has often been accused of human rights atrocities, including forced child labor, the killing of unarmed protesters and even boiling protesters alive.
Human Rights Watch calls the country's human rights record "atrocious," saying "thousands are imprisoned on politically-motivated charges. Torture is endemic in the criminal justice system. Authorities continue to crack down on civil society activists, opposition members, and journalists."
Reporters Without Borders ranks Uzbekistan 166th out of 180 countries in terms of press freedom, noting that "Karimov subjects his country to the strictest censorship. No fewer than nine journalists are rotting in prison in the most abominable conditions."

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/02/asia/uzbekistan-president-islam-karimov-dead/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_topstories+%28RSS%3A+CNN+-+Top+Stories%29


actually..3 percent of their population areslaves..perfectly legal in the Quran
yes..but they are not threatening us..and sending armies of the faithful against us into the ME..Another Ghadaffi..
But I know our pompous asses are doing everything possible to make sure to see that changes.

The EU seems to be warming up to him overlooking those reports.. cool
what flavor of Islam did you say you like again?
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xx Re: Hey, Islam! Enough Already!
« Reply #65 on: Sep 2nd, 2016, 6:07pm »

Yes, I'm sure the West is teetering on the edge over Uzbekistan....

wink

(your argument actually immediately brought to my mind the rationale used by Cameron and Osborne that austerity works! Just look at Lithuania.......)

Of course we know how that turned out in the end........

Next..

rolleyes

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xx Re: Hey, Islam! Enough Already!
« Reply #66 on: Sep 3rd, 2016, 10:27pm »

on Sep 2nd, 2016, 6:07pm, tommi01 wrote:
.

wink

(your argument actually immediately brought to my mind the rationale used by Cameron and Osborne that austerity works! Just look at Lithuania.......)

Of course we know how that turned out in the end........

Next..

rolleyes



Actually austerity has nothing to do with what I am talking about. ..
I am only trying to help you step back, unmire yourself from the mistakes of the past...escape the fate of sisyphus rolling the stone up only to have it roll down again..
while you scoff..understandably so at Uzbekistan a landlocked region by Afghanistan Tajakistan Pakistan Khazakstan..which also happens to hold a quarter of the world gold and significant amounts of uranium..They are all
part of a new future..a brave new world..

The Ultimate 21st Century Choice; OBOR or War
By Pepe Escobar

An array of financial mechanisms is already in place. The AIIB (which will fund way beyond the initial commitment of $100 billion); the Silk Road Fund ($40 billion already committed); the BRICS's New Development Bank (NDB), initially committing $100 billion; plus assorted players such as the China Development Bank and the Hong Kong-based China Merchants Holdings International.

Chinese state companies and funds are relentlessly buying up ports and tech companies in Western Europe -- from Greece to the UK.

Cargo trains are now plying the route from Zhejiang to Tehran in 14 days, through Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan; soon this will be all part of a trans-Eurasia high-speed rail network, including a high-speed Transiberian.

The $46 billion China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) has the potential to unblock vast swathes of South Asia, with Gwadar, operated by China Overseas Port Holdings, slated to become a key naval hub of the New Silk Roads.
Deep-sea ports will be built in Kyaukphyu in Myanmar, Sonadia island in Bangladesh, Hambantota in Sri Lanka. Add to them the China-Belarus Industrial Park and 33 deals in Kazakhstan covering everything from mining and engineering to oil and gas. Back in February, PwC was already detailing $250 billion in OBOR projects that had been built, recently started or agreed on and signed.

An array of Silk Road projects now crisscross Eurasia, progressively networking east-west and north-south corridors through many an economic zone; an expanding connectivity and infrastructure development frenzy involving Russia, China, India, Pakistan, Iran, Southeast and Central Asia. Connectivity, now more than geography, is destiny.

It's not by accident that a lot of the action happens in member-states or observers of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO). The New Silk Roads are about to be totally intertwined with the reprogramming of the SCO as a security-economic cooperation umbrella.

In parallel Russia, with the progressive coordination of the Eurasia Economic Union (EEU) with the New Silk Roads, projects the Russia-China strategic partnership much further than just New Silk Road connectivity to Europe
.



Isn't the choice we have obvious to you?






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« Reply #67 on: Sep 4th, 2016, 01:32am »

I don't understand what you are getting at?

What is the problem bringing energy and industry to areas of resources and people who can benefit.

I'm sure global funds into this are risky but when there is higher risk there are higher profits to be made..

What is the problem here?

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« Reply #68 on: Sep 4th, 2016, 02:08am »

It means Tommi...our actions are the equivalent of setting off a several atom bombs in the San Andreas fault..and we are standing on the wrong side of the fault...

I am sure you did not miss what happened at the g20..That was a message..as clear as a shot across the bow..China will not be contained..neither will Russia...
Of course, the big news of this weekend's G-20 event was neither the summit, nor the communique, but the unprecedented and prearranged snub by China targeting president Obama, who after an unexpected show of solidarity on Saturday over the global effort to address climate change, was humiliated by China when Obama arrived at Hangzhou Xiaoshan airport, when as reported earlier, first the receiving China delegation made sure there was no staircase for Obama to exit the plane and descend on the red carpet; the president of the world's most powerful nation was thus forced to use an emergency exit for his final arrival in China as commander in chief.

Then, around the time Obama was exiting through the emergency staircase, a Chinese official attempted to block national security adviser Susan Rice and Deputy National Security Adviser Ben Rhodes after they lifted a blue rope holding back press and walked to the other side of it, closer to Obama. A member of the Chinese delegation began shouting at White House staff, demanding the pool leave the arrival scene. A White House official said Obama was our president and Air Force One was our plane and that the press was not going to move from the designated area. The Chinese official angrily responded "This is our country. This is our airport."

The scandals continued later, with members of the Chinese and US delegations coming close to throwing punches at each other: as we previously reported, two Chinese officials - one working to assist the American delegation - had to be physically separated after trying to hit each other outside an event.

As the WSJ adds, "the Chinese barred Mr. Obama from including his traveling press contingent in his motorcade. The hosts also have refused a White House request for a joint press conference with Mr. Xi, and they plan to block Mr. Obama’s solo press briefing from airing live on Chinese television."

In short, the fate of G-20 meeting was fixed: no matter what was decided, it would forever be remember as the event where China snubbed the US president in an unprecedented fashion one final time.



I would not worry about the Muslims forming a Golden Horde like Tamirlane at the moment..but I would think twice about bombing them and then bringing them here believing they somehow would be grateful and become productive members of society.
The Romans did that..and it did not turn out too well.
But we don't learn..we think we are exceptional ,,and as hillary said..indispensable..and it will be different this time.

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« Reply #69 on: Sep 4th, 2016, 02:53am »

I don't see how China's representatives, snubbing the US president, if it did happen, has anything to do with what you are talking about.

How this relates to your concepts I don't know...

Investment opportunities will always prevail.........

It's the American way smiley


(unlike Sharia) which is what we are talking about here.
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« Reply #70 on: Sep 4th, 2016, 02:55am »

I'm not against stepping on Islam hard.

From burkinis & burkas to their bellowing....

Separation of church and state. Because they incorporate "statehood" into their religion, they should be taxed like any enterprise.....

That would kill it from festering in the US faster than anything.....

I mean, basically aren't we giving tax free status now to them while they also embody a statehood which is in direct conflict with secularism ?



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« Reply #71 on: Sep 4th, 2016, 03:08am »

on Sep 4th, 2016, 02:08am, Sys_Config wrote:
I would not worry about the Muslims forming a Golden Horde like Tamirlane at the moment..but I would think twice about bombing them and then bringing them here believing they somehow would be grateful and become productive members of society.




OMG rolleyes

Next time we will throw flowers and see how that goes...

Maybe you would like to go to Syria and negotiate with ISIS? You could take the leaders of the UK Labour party there too. Their platform of "negotiation with ISIS" is what is keeping the Labour party from becoming a viable political contender in UK politics against the Tory policies.

They have castrated themselves.. in other words.. way before ISIS does it for them.

You want to join too? Have fun grin

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« Reply #72 on: Sep 4th, 2016, 03:54am »

actually, the Kurds threw flowers at us, and look where that got them.
Maybe if we had not allowed the shia to boot out every Sunni..Isis would not exist an be so strong..
because thats what makes upmost of Isis and why they were so smart..made up of sadams professional and merchant classs..and we used them..went to bed with them..to get at Assad..That same class was aleady embedded in France and UK


Nothing wrong with investments in high risk places as long as you dont become the high risk to your hosts. Uzbekistan, no democracy, and majority muslim, was doing great with us,until the saw what happened in Ukraine and Georgia.the colour revolutions... they are just as leerie of Russia,because of past history. the have essentially a secular state...and there are just a many or millions more Muslims in those regions than the ME ..but not the mess and driving out christians and other religions.
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« Reply #73 on: Sep 4th, 2016, 05:38am »

on Sep 4th, 2016, 03:54am, Sys_Config wrote:
actually, the Kurds threw flowers at us, and look where that got them.
Maybe if we had not allowed the shia to boot out every Sunni..Isis would not exist an be so strong..
because thats what makes upmost of Isis and why they were so smart..made up of sadams professional and merchant classs..and we used them..went to bed with them..to get at Assad..That same class was aleady embedded in France and UK


Nothing wrong with investments in high risk places as long as you dont become the high risk to your hosts. Uzbekistan, no democracy, and majority muslim, was doing great with us,until the saw what happened in Ukraine and Georgia.the colour revolutions... they are just as leerie of Russia,because of past history. the have essentially a secular state...and there are just a many or millions more Muslims in those regions than the ME ..but not the mess and driving out christians and other religions.


So many leftist generalizations and so few facts... you have a tremendous tenacity though... I'll say that.


Islam is the fourth-largest religion in Ukraine, representing 0.6%–0.9% of the population.

The Muslims constitute from 9.9% (463,062) to 10-13% of Georgia's population.

http://carnegieendowment.org/2016/01/07/shia-centric-state-building-and-sunni-rejection-in-post-2003-iraq-pub-62408

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_designated_terrorist_groups

Ukraine
In Ukraine, the Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics are classified as terrorist organizations. Ukrainian authorities claim that the two organizations are made up of a rigid hierarchy, financing channels and supply of weapons with the purpose of deliberately propagating violence, seizing hostages, carrying out subversive activity, assassinations, and the intimidation of citizens.[44]

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/europe-attacks.aspx

Georgia, Russia see above... it isn't fluffy...

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« Reply #74 on: Sep 4th, 2016, 06:19am »

Here's an interesting article about how Ukraine's nationalists are fighting with ISIS..

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/11/the_ukraineisis_alliance.html

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