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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: When Old Men Plan Wars They Cannot Fight  (Read 759 times)
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xx When Old Men Plan Wars They Cannot Fight
« Thread started on: Jan 9th, 2017, 8:11pm »

Pentagon never payed attention to Obama Anyway..They want war hack or no hack


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-09/thousands-us-troops-begin-arriving-europe-one-largest-deployments-cold-war

Thousands Of US Troops Arrive In Europe In "One Of Largest Deployments Since The Cold War"
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by Tyler Durden
Jan 9, 2017 8:36 PM
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Just days after we reported that the US had begun deploying some 2,800 tanks, trucks and other military equipment to Germany, from where they would be transported by rail and road to Eastern Europe as part of a buildup of NATO reinforcements against "Russian expansion", the next US deployment has made its way to Europe over the weekend, when some 4,000 US troops arrived in the German port of Bremerheven, on their way to Wroclaw, Poland under a planned NATO operation to "reassure the alliance’s Eastern European allies" in the face of what NATO has dubbed mounting Russian aggression.

The American soldiers landed in Wroclaw, home to a key Nato and Polish air base in south-west Poland. The troops will be followed by the roughly 2,800 tanks and other pieces of military equipment which are currently en route from Germany.

The delivery of US Abrams tanks, Paladin artillery, and Bradley fighting vehicles, as well as supporting troops, marks a new phase of America’s continuous presence in Europe, which will now be based on a nine-month rotation.

Why provoke Russia with yet another mass deployment? Because as NATO Major General Timothy McGuire told reporters, last week, when asked if the large deployment was meant to send a message to Russia, "The best way to maintain the peace is through preparation." And while we are quoting, here is another good line from the movie Spice Like Us: "A weapon unused is a useless weapon." The US military industrial complex is doing everything in its power to make sure a lot of weapons are used in the future.


US troops are being deployed in Poland under Operation Atlantic Resolve Getty

As reported previously, NATO’s latest deployment along Russia’s western border falls under Operation Atlantic Resolve, a mission designed to demonstrate to Moscow Washington’s commitment to defend allies in Europe. Atlantic Resolve was launched in the immediate aftermath of the Ukraine proxy war and the partition of the Ukraine, which sparked fears in the Baltic nations that Vladimir Putin was planning a similar land-grab there.

The Polish embassy in Washington said the troops in Wroclaw were the first to arrive in Poland as part of Atlantic Resolve. As the Independent dubs the US reinforcement, the deployment has been described as "one of the largest movements of US troops to Europe since the Cold War."

Quoted by Reuters, Lt Gen Tim Ray, deputy commander of US European Command, said: “Let me be very clear, this is one part of our efforts to deter Russian aggression, ensure territorial integrity of our allies and maintain a Europe that is whole, free, prosperous and at peace.”

Instead, what the deployment will do is bring the continent that much closer to a new cold, if not conventional, war.

The US troops are expected to be stationed at two training sites in western Poland in the short term before they are sent to sites at six other countries across the region.

In another faux-pacifist justification, Maj Gen Timothy McGuire, deputy commanding general of the US Army Europe, said that, “this is a tangible sign of the United States' commitment to maintaining peace on this continent. "It is a sign of the US commitment to this alliance and to peace and prosperity in Europe." Meanwhile, Russia has already deploy nuclear-capable ballistic missiles to Kaliningrad in response to this latest NATO build-up, from where it has a bird's eye view of most of central Europe. It has warned further deployment would lead to even more nukes.

The US Army said the process of deploying to Europe was part of the training and tested how American forces would be sent at short notice to counter Russia in the event of an outbreak of war. Troops will be on rotation in Poland and beyond for between four and six months and will work alongside local units.

The massive deployment means that the arrival of the 3rd Armoured Brigade Combat Team, 4th Infantry Division, will see the start of a continuous presence and back-to-back rotations of US troops and equipment in the region. Among the deployments to Romania and Bulgaria will be the 1st Battalion, 8th Infantry Regiment – dubbed the ‘Iron Knights’ and the oldest armoured unit in the US Army. The US is also increasing its presence in the Black Sea and in Western Europe at bases in the Netherlands, Belgium and Germany.

Russia blames the West for worsening relations and says the build-up of Nato troops in the Baltics is a provocation. Expect more complaints from the Kremlin: around 4,000 Nato troops are set be posted to Poland, Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia in the coming months.

In addition, Britain will send an 800-strong battalion to Estonia, supported by French and Danish troops, beginning in May. The deployment was criticised as “truly aggressive” by Moscow.

* * *

Meanwhile, an odd voice of reason when it comes to potential European war has emerged out of German politicians, who have raised concern about the thousands of NATO troops and equipment, along with hundreds of tanks, that have been sent to Poland and countries bordering Russia in what has been touted by Washington as “defense against Russian aggression.”


U.S. tanks, trucks and other military equipment is are unloaded in the harbour of
Bremerhaven, Germany, January 8, 2017

“It does not help us if tanks will be going up and down on both sides of the border,” Brandenburg’s leader and SPD party member, Dietmar Woidke, told RBB. “I hope everyone will keep calm. I believe that despite all the difficulties, we should seek dialogue with Russia,” he added on Thursday, warning that relations with Moscow could worsen even further.

NATO’s buildup in Europe also came under fire from Germany’s Die Linke party. “Tanks do not create peace, anywhere,” Christian Görke stressed in a statement, RBB reported. Tobias Pflueger of Die Linke slammed the stationing of US tanks and military equipment in Poland, saying this will trigger an arms race and lead to an “escalation in relations with Russia,” Focus Online reported.

Crowds of people marched through Bremerhaven on Saturday to protest the deployment and transport of NATO troops and weapons through the city, RT reported. Hundreds of American tanks, trucks, and other military equipment bound for Poland, said to be the largest arms shipment since the fall of the Soviet Union, arrived at the German port on Friday to be transferred to Eastern Europe. The protesters marched through the city holding signs and banners reading, “No NATO deployments! End the militaristic march against Russia!” and “Out of NATO.”
« Last Edit: Jan 18th, 2017, 11:05pm by Sys_Config » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Hack did not work: Men and Tanks Pour into Pol
« Reply #1 on: Jan 10th, 2017, 3:20pm »

I fully support Obama's move for this deployment, in order to stem Putin's rising tide of imperialism {like the re-taking of Crimea in the Ukraine} in Eastern Europe --- And will remove any doubts or second thoughts from Putin --- until Trump is sworn in --- that the U.S. will help defend NATO against any Russian aggression.

Interesting to see how Putin lover Trump responds to this U.S. deployment.
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xx Re: Hack did not work: Men and Tanks Pour into Pol
« Reply #2 on: Jan 10th, 2017, 3:37pm »

I take it that you are aware that troop movements up to the Russian border are nothing unusual ?

NATO does it all the time.

So does Russia.

All part of the war gaming. Nothing to worry about.

Any real attack will be started with bombing and missile strikes.
Having spent 18 month in Berlin in the late sixties such posturing is typical old school cold war stuff.

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xx Re: Hack did not work: Men and Tanks Pour into Pol
« Reply #3 on: Jan 10th, 2017, 3:55pm »

on Jan 10th, 2017, 3:37pm, INT21 wrote:
I take it that you are aware that troop movements up to the Russian border are nothing unusual ?

NATO does it all the time.

So does Russia.

All part of the war gaming. Nothing to worry about.

Any real attack will be started with bombing and missile strikes.
Having spent 18 month in Berlin in the late sixties such posturing is typical old school cold war stuff.

HAL
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Putin just finished bombing the snot out of the Syrian opposition, and a Russian supplied missile from Soviet occupied Ukraine, that shot a passenger jet airliner out of the sky last year. So what's new?? Russian aggression against the whole Eastern Europe, with Trump's blessing...maybe?? Or is this the return of the Cold War?? Not to mention Russia's hacking of the DNC before the election --- With CIA/NSA reports...that Putin will order the same kind of sabotage, with hacking and the spread of false news in Germany's upcoming election and probably the whole Eastern Europe political process as well. I'm all ears...totally pissed an angry as a mad hornet!!

I suggest that all European civilians and military arm themselves too the teeth, in order to fight against a possible Russian invasion. Obama knows the high stakes --- Does Trump?? Homie don't think so...
« Last Edit: Jan 10th, 2017, 4:09pm by Erno86 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Hack did not work: Men and Tanks Pour into Pol
« Reply #4 on: Jan 10th, 2017, 4:26pm »

No point in getting angry Erno. It'll just raise your blood pressure. And achieve absolutely nothing useful.

As for the 'arm yourselves bit' ; No thanks.

To keep it topical, there have been more people killed in Chicago with guns in the last twelve month than in the whole of Europe; and that is just one city.

Let us pretend that your forces attacked Chicago, all your guns wouldn't help you. The heavy fire power of the Federal forces would blow you all away in hours.
It would be a futile gesture.

The parallel is European civilians trying to stand up to a Russian invasion. Pointless.

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xx Re: Hack did not work: Men and Tanks Pour into Pol
« Reply #5 on: Jan 11th, 2017, 3:12pm »

Hal --- The way the Russians seemingly stole the presidential election from the Democrats is unprecedented in U.S. history.

And with Trump's support of Putin with his criticism against NATO...could give Russia the green light to invade Eastern Europe and battle NATO forces that could lead us to World War III.

If I had just one the aliens foo fighter's --- I could probably conquer the entire planet in just a matter of weeks if I wanted too --- But I'm not the kind of person who is into imperialism like Putin and Trump are prone to be.

I guess guns seem alien to you? {Since I'm assuming that you live in Great Britain} On the contrary...I like guns --- I belong to a gun club that has an outdoor range --- And I love to practice my shooting skills there, because it is a very important skill to have, in case the time arises where you would need a firearm to defend yourself/family or your country. Look at the French resistance during WWII.

The art of shooting is a fun sport...especially shooting at steel reactive targets. I have about 20 guns: 4 blackpowder rifles, pistols, 2 AR15's, 4 AK-47's, and a host of other hi-power rifles including an air rifle and rimfire guns.

On CBS World News last night:

"British bobbies will soon be packing heat"

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/more-british-police-may-soon-start-carrying-guns


« Last Edit: Jan 11th, 2017, 3:22pm by Erno86 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Hack did not work: Men and Tanks Pour into Pol
« Reply #6 on: Jan 12th, 2017, 07:26am »

Erno,

We have plowed over the gun thing on many occasions here. It never produces any useful conclusions.

A gun is a tool. It has but two purposes. To intimidate or to kill. So if you are not in the forces then you really have no use for one. Farmers are an exception. Maybe hunters too.

I spent seven years of my life with guns and know quite enough about them. I can hit a man sized target at 600 metres with a 7.62 Belgian FN semi automatic, and am competent with the Stirling sub-machine gun. This was the weapon of choice for drivers as it was easily to maneuver.

All this is way back in the sixties.

My opinion on home gun ownership is that it is a by-product of deeper social problems. You all need to address the real problems, not just fortify yourselves.

Yes, I am in the UK. And many of out more specialist cops already carry guns.
Anyway, it is mostly historical in your country.
Basically we don't need it.
There are enough crazies wandering around in my town without weapons that it would be frightening to imagine them with guns.

The French Resistance reference is a bit of a red herring. that was in a war time situation.

There is a point that I have mentioned before. You really have no idea what an invasion by a foreign force will be like.
With the exceptions of Pearl Harbour (not the US mainland) and your early Independence war, you, as a nation, have never faced foreign aggression. You simply do not know what it is like.
This isn't a criticism, just a statement of act.
An attack on your country would come via massive military means. Not poking guns around corners and taking pot shots at each other. Think Ellepo. And that is a civil war.

Guns are not good, and they do not make you safe. On the contrary, they place you at greater risk.

Still, it's your choice.

Oh yes, I almost forgot, I do (did) enjoy small bore (.22) indoor range target shooting. I was quite good at it; used to shoot for my Corps rifle team. Sadly my eyesight isn't up to it these days.

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xx Re: Every Poles Dream Come True
« Reply #7 on: Jan 12th, 2017, 10:48am »

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-12/american-troops-roll-poland-largest-deployment-cold-war

"American soldiers rolled into Poland on Thursday, fulfilling a dream Poles have had since the fall of communism in 1989 to have U.S. troops on their soil as a deterrent against Russia."


You have to admire APs creative license grin grin grin

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just twittered that on Nato thread should be fun grin
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xx Re: AP Rprt: 2k tanks Its a dream come true for Po
« Reply #8 on: Jan 12th, 2017, 4:31pm »

Hal - I also have a Sterling Mark 4 L2A3 Type II Carbine in 9mm, fitted for semi-auto only --- Though the steel buttstock is a tad bit short...I still love it so much that it's my SHTF weapon.






You kind of wonder why Trump is being so slavish over Putin. One reason could be that Putin is blackmailing Trump over a unverified Trump sex tape from a Moscow hotel.

« Last Edit: Jan 13th, 2017, 1:48pm by Erno86 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: AP Rprt: 2k tanks Its a dream come true for Po
« Reply #9 on: Jan 12th, 2017, 5:37pm »

Erno..now I know that by now you know that was debunked and proven a hoax by 4chan which even took in Chris steel..you remember ..the mi6 guy who sold it to the CIA..and being pals from the old days thought it would be a good gag and spread the office joke around..mi6 chaps thought it was funny too and as they want Trump as bad as CIA said go ahead we have your back. Chris was always the joker




well it turns out they got more yellow bubbly fizz than they bargained for.. grin
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xx Re: AP Rprt: 2k tanks Its a dream come true for Po
« Reply #10 on: Jan 12th, 2017, 5:48pm »

You mean that Grandma with a pistol is fake? Can't believe anything anymore. grin
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xx Re: AP Rprt: 2k tanks Its a dream come true for Po
« Reply #11 on: Jan 13th, 2017, 1:59pm »

Sys_Config - "As well as being stationed in Poland, the U.S. troops will fan out across other eastern European states, including Estonia, Bulgaria and Romania."

"Polish foreign minister Witold Waszcykowski, voicing concern in eastern Europe that Trump might do a deal with Putin, said this week he hoped that any such reconciliation would not be at Poland's expense."

quote: MSN News
« Last Edit: Jan 13th, 2017, 2:20pm by Erno86 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: AP Rprt: 2k tanks Its a dream come true for Po
« Reply #12 on: Jan 13th, 2017, 2:22pm »

Right wingers...this is your Manchurian candidate. rolleyes
« Last Edit: Jan 13th, 2017, 3:27pm by Erno86 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: AP Rprt: 2k tanks Its a dream come true for Po
« Reply #13 on: Jan 13th, 2017, 2:29pm »

Hal - What kind of 22 rifle did you shoot? Was it the British made BSA Model 12 Martini Henry bull barrel rifle with the Parker Hale peep sights?

I own one myself..and the rifle has displayed amazingly consistent accuracy with match grade ammo. The bull barrel keeps me steady while shooting offhand standing, at my 4" diameter metal spinner target at 100 yards.

My Wiselite Sterling does not look like it has a beefy weld on the magazine chute, and the front sight pin is frozen. How do I get it to move {besides filing down the front sight, which I've already done}?

I know it's correct not to hold onto the magazine while shooting it...since the weld might break under pressure --- Love the magazines though --- I have four of them, and I'm thinking about buying the mil-spec magazine bag for the Sterling.

I can buy the suppressed Sterling full auto/semi for around $14,000 --- that is --- if I had the coin. grin We also have a full auto machine gun club at our range; and they burn-up a heck of a lot of ammo --- Though I wish I had enough coin {$20,000} for a full auto Thompson in 45acp.

"The United States was once a nation of riflemen. The biased hallucinations of revisionist historians notwithstanding, guns have always been an integral part of the early American experience. Such stuff shaped who we are."
« Last Edit: Jan 13th, 2017, 3:02pm by Erno86 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: AP Rprt: 2k tanks Its a dream come true for Po
« Reply #14 on: Jan 13th, 2017, 3:04pm »

Erno,

We used sleeved down .303 single shot bolt action rifles for the 0.22 range. I can't remember the make. Same goes for your other query about the site.
I do remember being told not to hold the magazine on the Stirling as it can cause a jam.

It is over fifty year since I was doing that.

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