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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of US  (Read 1188 times)
purr
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xx Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of US
« Thread started on: Aug 15th, 2017, 04:42am »

I'm probably 1 of the maybe 10 people in the Netherlands who feel any empathy toward President Trump. Why? Because Dutch News of all things American is almost exclusively CNN feed, or our own reporters seemingly re-reporting US liberal newsmedia with an additional slant TO THE LEFT.

Seems the entire planet now is getting the news that the sitting US President is a racist. And it's mainly because his initiial statement referring to "many sides", in response to the Charlottesville Unite The Right rally, turned Antifa vs assorted White Supremacist riot, turned deadly (precious 32 yr old Heather Heyer) domestic terror attack, swiftly turned free for all media frenzy outing a 'racist' US President.

I'm empathetic with the guy because even as the event was being spun live as a Nazi terror attack being somehow condoned by Trump (Nazis, mr. Fields purportedly included in one of the sides in his statement), several vids were shown, on CNN and Dutch News, of two helmeted, armed and armoured groups violently clashing, exchanging blows and charges. Given that the UtR rally (however politically distasteful) started out legally within free speech rights, it was at the point that the Antifa and W Supremacist sides(!) engaged each other with violence that the law of the land was first broken, criminal actions arguably setting in motion a terrible chain of events, ending in Heather Heyer's terrorist murder. Imo Trump's "sides" discription was legally sound, meeting his obligations as president to respond to events factually and to how they develop in the legal sense.

I also would like to note that the rally (disbanded by police as its highly intimidating and offensive nature became obvious), the violent clashing/rioting involving MULTIPLE opposing militant activist groups (with peaceful protesters caught in the middle), and thirdly out-of-town Hitler enthusiast James Fields plowing his car into a crowd he intensely resented politically (making his action terrorism!) may be demonstrated as distinct (though connected) events, separated by participants, on the timeline and precise Charlottesville locations.

The initial UtR Rally went from allowed to ordered disbanded by police. That riots could ensue seems a failure by police to shut down and remove the UtR group and their supporters. They probably lacked the manpower to create a cordon between Antifa and W Supremacist groups as they moved at each other.

Finally, with local police still on the sidelines, an outraged James Alex Fields Jr. was free take his car as a weapon to strike at his perceived race-mixing enemies, doing what he could to fight for his deranged beliefs. Glad they arrested his dispicable donkey, don't know if that means life or execution in VA.

The above to me means that Donald Trump simply got the facts right, was doing his job as pres, when condemning all actions of violence and hate from multiple sides. Now, some 48 hrs later he has named & denounced the KKK and various supremaicist groups giving in to intense political pressure. He now has to at least position himself as 'not a racist' to counter that accusation gone global/viral. I doubt he, in all honesty, particularly cares about the issue at all, or where his votes came from, so long as ANYONE voted FOR HIM.

Lessons learned. When pressed, all good folks everywhere, US Presidents included, will come out and express their abhorrence of violent, murderous white racists. No problemo. In the Netherlands Nazi theme rallies/demonstrations are strictly prohibited, Hitler has made himself tremendously impopular here. To really protect the good townsfolk of Charlottesville and elsewhere in the Home of the Free against opposing versions of free speech (with the potential for physical confrontations), black or white or of any ethnicity, I guess you need to put a lot of police in those streets. Or folks will die.


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« Last Edit: Aug 15th, 2017, 04:54am by purr » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #1 on: Aug 15th, 2017, 07:42am »

It should be obvious by now, and even some Democrats are admitting, that the liberal left (MSM) will do anything to take down Trump. Anything he says or does will be examined in minute detail looking for the slightest exaggeration or presumed misbehavior followed by innuendo demonstrating that he is either mentally deranged, incompetent or somehow unsuitable to hold the office of president. People are beginning to recognize the same mantra over and over again. Trump does not have my admiration but compared to Hillary and the liberal left he is a godsend.
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xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #2 on: Aug 15th, 2017, 11:51am »

Trump did show "cowardice" on Saturday by refusing to call out the racists and neo-Nazis, and on Monday he showed how "uncomfortable" he was in delivering "another" kind of message.

We are seeing a rise in fascism in the United States, partly because of the proliferation of social media, that makes it so easy for anybody interested in the likes of neo-Nazism or the KKK, can just click-on to any web site that supports bigotry, hatred and violence.

Not to mention that the core of these racist hate groups, support DJT and Steve Bannon because they "embody the defiant populism at the core of president's agenda."

Mr. Trump talked at last, but will he act? He could start "by scrapping his plan to remove white supremacists from a federal antiterror programs agenda. {On Monday, Attorney General Jeff Sessions called Saturday's attack an act of domestic terrorism, but Mr. Trump declined to use the term."

I'm still speculating...that the helicopter crash that involved the death of two state troopers near Charlottesville, was an act of domestic terrorism; by someone who shot it down with rifle fire.

It is a "time for assertive modesty to take a stand," in order to find a way to "roll back this fanaticism."

"Donald Trump is the perfect snake oil salesman for this moment. He lacks inwardness and therefore is terrified by the possibility of anxiety. He has been escaping self-scrutiny his whole life and has become a genius at the self-exculpating rationalization. He took a nation beset by uncertainty and he gave it a series of 'explanations' that were simple, crude, affirming and wrong.

The true link between the Trump administration and those pathetic loons in Charlottesville is not just bigotry, but also conspiracy mongering."

quote: David Brooks - NYT's OP-ED - Tuesday, August 15, 2017
« Last Edit: Aug 15th, 2017, 11:55am by Erno86 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #3 on: Aug 15th, 2017, 12:49pm »

There seems to be a deeper malaise here.

The winning side, as is usual, trying to re-write history.

I refer to the business of the Confederate monuments.

The one in Durham, NC, in particular.

No one could have failed to notice the parallel between this and the toppling of Saddam Husein's statue. It even had it's jeering mob with at least one person spitting on it.

Whatever folks may think of the outcome of the Civil War, it is what it is. You can't change history, but you can lead people to forget it. And maybe make the same mistake again.

HAL
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xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #4 on: Aug 15th, 2017, 2:04pm »

Anybody wanna get a taste of some white nationalist, white supremacist, neo-Nazi hate filled looney B.S.? --- You can check out the Stormfront website {owned by David Duke - former Grand Dragon of the KKK- who was also at the Charlottesville rally last Saturday}, that is regularly monitored by the F.B.I.

« Last Edit: Aug 15th, 2017, 2:11pm by Erno86 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #5 on: Aug 15th, 2017, 2:18pm »

on Aug 15th, 2017, 12:49pm, INT21 wrote:
There seems to be a deeper malaise here.

The winning side, as is usual, trying to re-write history.

I refer to the business of the Confederate monuments.

The one in Durham, NC, in particular.

No one could have failed to notice the parallel between this and the toppling of Saddam Husein's statue. It even had it's jeering mob with at least one person spitting on it.

Whatever folks may think of the outcome of the Civil War, it is what it is. You can't change history, but you can lead people to forget it. And maybe make the same mistake again.

HAL
INT21


The "Daughters of the Confederacy" was the organization that funded the money from donations, around 1890, to build this Confederate statues all over the U.S. --- But especially down South, was where most of these statues were built.
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xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #6 on: Aug 15th, 2017, 2:19pm »

on Aug 15th, 2017, 2:04pm, Erno86 wrote:
Anybody wanna get a taste of some white nationalist, white supremacist, neo-Nazi hate filled looney B.S.? --- You can check out the Stormfront website {owned by David Duke - former Grand Dragon of the KKK- who was also at the Charlottesville rally last Saturday}, that is regularly monitored by the F.B.I.



Oh yea, I really want to get on that FBI list............... tongue



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xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #7 on: Aug 15th, 2017, 4:42pm »

Should the statues at Lookout Mountain be blasted from the stone? Should Jefferson and Washington be removed from Rushmore? Should their monuments in Washington be leveled?
At what point does it stop? Are the Civil War battlefield parks and monuments to be bulldozed and sold off? Should the movie "Gone with the Wind" be banned for showing the old south in a sympathetic light?
And when the Civil War is erased from all mention in a "1984" style re-write of history what comes next? Won't all the monuments great and small to the UNION have to be removed as well to complete the removal process?
What about World War Two because we used the A-Bomb on Japan? Or Korea because it was not a declared war, or Vietnam since the left found it so distasteful? Will those monuments come down as well lest we offend someone?
Must American history be erased from human memory as an evil mistake never to be mentioned again on pain of punishment?
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xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #8 on: Aug 15th, 2017, 6:14pm »

on Aug 15th, 2017, 07:42am, MrGort wrote:
It should be obvious by now, and even some Democrats are admitting, that the liberal left (MSM) will do anything to take down Trump. Anything he says or does will be examined in minute detail looking for the slightest exaggeration or presumed misbehavior followed by innuendo demonstrating that he is either mentally deranged, incompetent or somehow unsuitable to hold the office of president. People are beginning to recognize the same mantra over and over again. Trump does not have my admiration but compared to Hillary and the liberal left he is a godsend.


OK, MrGort, I agree (based) on skimming through the past 10 hours of CNN discussions and reporting (like Don Lemon's seemingly perpetual surprise/disillusion at yet the next and next etc. etc. verbal antics by Trump shocked) are going after him in a kind of frenzy. Though the pres isn't doing himself any favors, opting for an abrasive style, spurning the traditional theater of 'being presidential'. One might blame him for a lack of hypocrisy, refusing to just say what people want to hear.

Are the socalled liberal media like CNN taking their critique of a sitting POTUS too far, to the point of undermining him / weakening America, I can see Marshal Kim Jong-un watching it all in front of his 75' QLED Samsung fall of his chair laughing. Dangerous...

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xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #9 on: Aug 15th, 2017, 6:58pm »

on Aug 15th, 2017, 4:42pm, skizicks wrote:
Should the statues at Lookout Mountain be blasted from the stone? Should Jefferson and Washington be removed from Rushmore? Should their monuments in Washington be leveled?
At what point does it stop? Are the Civil War battlefield parks and monuments to be bulldozed and sold off? Should the movie "Gone with the Wind" be banned for showing the old south in a sympathetic light?
And when the Civil War is erased from all mention in a "1984" style re-write of history what comes next? Won't all the monuments great and small to the UNION have to be removed as well to complete the removal process?
What about World War Two because we used the A-Bomb on Japan? Or Korea because it was not a declared war, or Vietnam since the left found it so distasteful? Will those monuments come down as well lest we offend someone?
Must American history be erased from human memory as an evil mistake never to be mentioned again on pain of punishment?


Ski, I think iconoclasm and sanitizing our culture, language (esp. Political Correctness) and public sphere of the monuments, symbols, traditions of the (embarrassing?) past is extremely dangerous. Paves the way for the next Hitler to seduce a new generation who has no memory of horrors (that seemed like such a good idea at the time).

To remain vigilant against evil we must study history. The men in my extended fam, going 3 generations back, have brought home stories of WWII, the Politionele Acties (a long underreported conflict, like a Dutch 'Vietnam') and 'smaller' wars more recently. Some stuff never made it into history books. Dreadful accounts, searing those soldiers' souls and continuing to affect the lives of future generations who live in peace!

Remembering all the bad things, parents relaying these memories to kids when they are ready, imo immunizes us against future evil and dangers.

So, I'd leave/preserve the statues, like Robert E. Lee's at Charlottesvilles Emancipation Park. A vital reminder of past suffering and conflict.

But changing US law to move White Supremacist ideology and rhetoric outside of Free Speech? Something to consider for the American people.


purr
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xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #10 on: Aug 15th, 2017, 7:09pm »

on Aug 15th, 2017, 12:49pm, INT21 wrote:
There seems to be a deeper malaise here.

The winning side, as is usual, trying to re-write history.

I refer to the business of the Confederate monuments.

The one in Durham, NC, in particular.

No one could have failed to notice the parallel between this and the toppling of Saddam Husein's statue. It even had it's jeering mob with at least one person spitting on it.

Whatever folks may think of the outcome of the Civil War, it is what it is. You can't change history, but you can lead people to forget it. And maybe make the same mistake again.

HAL
INT21


Exactly, HAL/INT21, forgetting past evils paves the way for embracing future evil. The greatest threat to would be dictators is a brilliant historian (warning of 'wonderful' 'new' ideas actually having failed miserably many times before in recorded history!).


purr
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Let us be sure that those who come after will say of us in our time, that in our time we did everything that could be done. We finished the race; we kept them free; we kept the faith.

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xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #11 on: Aug 15th, 2017, 7:12pm »

on Aug 15th, 2017, 2:19pm, WingsofCrystal wrote:
Oh yea, I really want to get on that FBI list............... tongue





Good one Crystal. I almost clicked on it!

huh


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xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #12 on: Aug 15th, 2017, 8:07pm »

on Aug 15th, 2017, 11:51am, Erno86 wrote:
Trump did show "cowardice" on Saturday by refusing to call out the racists and neo-Nazis, and on Monday he showed how "uncomfortable" he was in delivering "another" kind of message.

We are seeing a rise in fascism in the United States, partly because of the proliferation of social media, that makes it so easy for anybody interested in the likes of neo-Nazism or the KKK, can just click-on to any web site that supports bigotry, hatred and violence.

Not to mention that the core of these racist hate groups, support DJT and Steve Bannon because they "embody the defiant populism at the core of president's agenda."

Mr. Trump talked at last, but will he act? He could start "by scrapping his plan to remove white supremacists from a federal antiterror programs agenda. {On Monday, Attorney General Jeff Sessions called Saturday's attack an act of domestic terrorism, but Mr. Trump declined to use the term."

I'm still speculating...that the helicopter crash that involved the death of two state troopers near Charlottesville, was an act of domestic terrorism; by someone who shot it down with rifle fire.

It is a "time for assertive modesty to take a stand," in order to find a way to "roll back this fanaticism."

"Donald Trump is the perfect snake oil salesman for this moment. He lacks inwardness and therefore is terrified by the possibility of anxiety. He has been escaping self-scrutiny his whole life and has become a genius at the self-exculpating rationalization. He took a nation beset by uncertainty and he gave it a series of 'explanations' that were simple, crude, affirming and wrong.

The true link between the Trump administration and those pathetic loons in Charlottesville is not just bigotry, but also conspiracy mongering."

quote: David Brooks - NYT's OP-ED - Tuesday, August 15, 2017


Erno, I'll grant you that pres Trump didn't handle Charlottesville events and the unfolding crises too well. I'm watching CNN digging him a deep hole all the way to North Korea, and he can't be said to be helping himself. If only someone could tie him on a chair for the next few days and have him read off the prompter. cheesy

That said. I've viewed the vids coming out of Charlottesville. Listened to Trumps statements. The first alluding to "many sides". His scripted calling out the KKK, Supremacism and Racism and clearly disavowing them, where he doesn't look a happy camper (nr. 2). And the general melee during the supposed Infrastructure press conference, further explaining and expounding on the first Charlottesville statement.

Erno86, no intention to shock you or anything: but I think he got it legally and factually right!

Trump's reference to "many" or "both" sides, based on his explanations, first and foremost is meant to deal with the unlawful introduction of violence into a initially permitted protest. The vids he (all of us) saw showed two armored, helmetted groups charging at one another, striking with clubs and fists and other weapons. Declaring both / all groups there engaging in violence in breach of the law is factual and fair.

Trump's third statement ('Infrastucture') did morally equate two groups of supposed good people, non-violent protesters, on the 'left'/anti-Supremacist as well as Unite the Right people 'legitimately' protesting the removal of Lee's sculpture with each other. This is probably narrowly true within US Right to Free Speech. Ethically and politically it may be unwise to the level of the downright naive. If these 'good folks' were the torch bearers chanting Jews Will Not Replace Us and Blood And Soil, even if entirely legal, no modern democratic country wants such folks vocal and active inside its borders. Uh... Mr. President, beware of confusing good people with neo-nazis. Just sayin. wink

My take is that Trump is in trouble, with the liberal media, with Democrats and Republicans and about half of America. Nothing new here. He made errors, mainly in skipping the careful vetting of his remarks & TWEETS prior to worldwide broadcasting. Guy has superb comm experts capable of creating one balanced statement that avoids upsetting everybody. Yet he didn't do nearly as badly as CNN/liberal media are today reporting, his statements on the whole were legally and factually correct.


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« Last Edit: Aug 15th, 2017, 8:12pm by purr » User IP Logged

Let us be sure that those who come after will say of us in our time, that in our time we did everything that could be done. We finished the race; we kept them free; we kept the faith.

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xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #13 on: Aug 16th, 2017, 1:38pm »

on Aug 15th, 2017, 2:19pm, WingsofCrystal wrote:
Oh yea, I really want to get on that FBI list............... tongue






I guess I'm on the F.B.I. monitoring list...because I'm a dissenting member on the Stormfront forum. It only took two of my {Erno86} posts --- me talking about space aliens to these right wing bigots --- to ban me from coming on the forum --- by a little picture puzzle that I had to put together, to sign in. Hard as I tried....they {David Duke & his henchmen} refused to let me on --- Even though my picture puzzle was correct.
« Last Edit: Aug 16th, 2017, 1:42pm by Erno86 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #14 on: Aug 16th, 2017, 1:53pm »

I've gotten into big trouble with the KKK, when I learned about a secret upcoming cross burning --- I called the local cops on them.

No cross burning happened, but I think they sent a racist white gang {Hampden gang} member, from a local city neighborhood, to violently assault me.
« Last Edit: Aug 16th, 2017, 2:29pm by Erno86 » User IP Logged

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