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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of US  (Read 2072 times)
skizicks
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xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #15 on: Aug 16th, 2017, 2:27pm »

"But changing US law to move White Supremacist ideology and rhetoric outside of Free Speech? Something to consider for the American people."

So those calling for a "White Genocide" are OK in your book? Those chanting for a communist government?
The problem with banning any speech is it opens the door to banning all free speech. Everyone deserves the right to say what they believe, and everyone else has the freedom to walk away and not listen. If no one listens then no matter how offensive it may be it is harmless.
Freedom, even the freedom to sound and act like a total ass, was bought and paid for with blood many times over.
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xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #16 on: Aug 16th, 2017, 2:34pm »

ERNO,

"I've gotten into big trouble with the KKK, when I learned about a secret upcoming cross burning --- I called the local cops on them.

No cross burning happened, but I think the sent a racist white gang {Hampden gang} member, from a local city neighborhood, to violently assault me."

SUMPTIN I WAS UNAWARE OF IN MARYLAND..."but I think" ~ "sent a racist white gang {Hampden gang} member, from a local city neighborhood, to violently assault me." EITHER IT HAPPENED OR DIDN'T...IF SO...COULD YOU PROVIDE MORE DETAIL?
DID YOU FILE A REPORT IN BALTIMORE COUNTY?


The Ku Klux Klan Is Apparently Still Alive and Well in Maryland

http://www.baltimorefishbowl.com/stories/ku-klux-klan-apparently-still-alive-well-maryland/

QUESTION...IF YOU HAD KNOWN THE ALT-LEFT WAS PLANNING "I learned about a secret upcoming" ATTACK ON DEMOSTRATORS WITH THE INTENT OF BODILY HARM...WOULD YOU HAVE..."called the local cops on them"?

SHALOM...Z
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xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #17 on: Aug 16th, 2017, 2:56pm »

No, I did not file a report with the Baltimore County Police; but I was almost fired from my company for using the company's two way radio; with me describing the attack on the radio to my boss --- Since all of our other company offices learned of the assault on my person; from my radio conversation

I was also physically assaulted, by another fellow employee, when he learned that I called the Howard County Police about the upcoming KKK cross burning. I did not report the assault to my boss or the police.

I've been to a couple of anti-Klan marches, during my youth --- One was in Greensboro, North Carolina.

I haven't been to any antifa protest marches yet, but as you know --- I'm a leftist radical U.S. patriot --- and dressed to the nines.
« Last Edit: Aug 16th, 2017, 3:00pm by Erno86 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #18 on: Aug 16th, 2017, 3:09pm »

I believed I turned into a leftist radical, when I was about 12 years old; when the Jewish mother of an adopted son that my mother was baby setting for --- showed me her concentration camp tattoo on her arm. The Nazis also sterilized her ovaries with radiation.
« Last Edit: Aug 16th, 2017, 3:12pm by Erno86 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #19 on: Aug 16th, 2017, 3:21pm »

I also have a deep lasting bond with my purported space aliens --- And yes...I'm a shaman priest.




















« Last Edit: Aug 16th, 2017, 3:21pm by Erno86 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #20 on: Aug 16th, 2017, 3:44pm »

ERNO,

"No, I did not file a report with the Baltimore County Police; but I was almost fired from my company for using the company's two way radio; with me describing the attack on the radio to my boss --- Since all of our other company offices learned of the assault on my person; from my radio conversation"

LESSON LEARNED ABOUT UNSECURE COMMUNICATIONS grin

ANYHOO..."I haven't been to any antifa protest marches yet, but as you know --- I'm a leftist radical U.S. patriot --- and dressed to the nines."

NOT A PROBLEM...YOU DO HAVE EXCELLENT TASTE IN MUSIC! ~ SOMETHING I ADMIRED ABOUT DRWU! COULD YOU PROVIDE CLARIFICATION ON "I'm a leftist radical U.S. patriot"

MY LAY UNDERSTANDING CONSISTS OF...

"Radical left is a synonym for the "farthest left" of left-wing politics. It is also present in the names of several political movements, several which are not of the far-left:"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_left

"Patriots (also known as Revolutionaries, Continentals, Rebels, or American Whigs) were those colonists of the Thirteen Colonies who rebelled against British control during the American Revolution and in July 1776 declared the United States of America an independent nation. Their rebellion was based on the political philosophy of republicanism, as expressed by spokesmen such as Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and Thomas Paine."

SOOO YOU'RE KEWL WITH..."Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and Thomas Paine."?

"I also have a deep lasting bond with my purported space aliens --- And yes...I'm a shaman priest."

BUT OF COURSE ~ "lasting bond with my purported space aliens" ~ A DISH SERVED DAILY ~ A LA CASEBOOK CAFE' grin

SHALOM...Z
« Last Edit: Aug 16th, 2017, 3:46pm by ZETAR » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #21 on: Aug 17th, 2017, 03:01am »

on Aug 16th, 2017, 2:27pm, skizicks wrote:
"But changing US law to move White Supremacist ideology and rhetoric outside of Free Speech? Something to consider for the American people."

So those calling for a "White Genocide" are OK in your book? Those chanting for a communist government?
The problem with banning any speech is it opens the door to banning all free speech. Everyone deserves the right to say what they believe, and everyone else has the freedom to walk away and not listen. If no one listens then no matter how offensive it may be it is harmless.
Freedom, even the freedom to sound and act like a total ass, was bought and paid for with blood many times over.


Skizicks, mmm.... I didn't say anywhere that calling for "White Genocide" is OK in my book, duh...! rolleyes

Let me read your post carefully: as (my sense of your reasoning) absolute adherence to a constitution set in stone. I disagree with that, the right to free speech is a great idea informing how human society should be run, but instead of having come to you/America perfect, it is imo experimental, requiring tweaks here and there over time as such society evolves, faces new challenges, feels different needs! Like the need for Amendments. smiley

In present day America Free Speech needs limits, as do other civil liberties. For example: You may not incite to commit violence or murder, like taking out an ad to have Obama assassinated (really happened!), imply that cartoonists depicting Prophet Mohammed may be killed or advocate black citizens ought to be hung from a tree.

And for other const rights: the Right to bear arms does not include building a nuclear bomb in your backyard. Freedom of Religion excludes ritual cannibalism, murder cause the Bible/Qu'ran told me so and so on.

There are enough precedents within the evolution of constitutional law to create a specific exclusion for, let's say, Nazi ideology. Like I said, the Dutch AND GERMANY have placed Nazi propaganda outside of this great freedom. There is no right to 'protest' carrying banners or shouting slogans from the Nazi era in these two countries. Because Hitler, his SS and Gestapo walked to our very door over here, and it was no fun at all. But that is for the American People to decide for themselves.

Ski, the existing amendments counter your 'slippery slope'-argument (limit 1 right leads to losing all rights).


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xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #22 on: Aug 17th, 2017, 05:37am »

Where to go from here? President Trump is reported to have no regrets about his statements. CNN (that's what I've been watching) seems to be in a 24 hr relay marathon to kill (the reputation) of this guy by death of a thousand cuts.

Can Donald Trump be helped, go on to have a great 4 years beyond Charlottesville?

Let's go back to what I believe to be an accurate analysis of the real sequence of events and how the US president learned of and responded to them.

1) First there was the UtR rally, going ahead with official permit, then ordered to disband by police, yet seen to enter Charlottesville regardless.

2) Multiple videos record opposing armed and helmeted groups coming into direct contact and clashing violently, loosely identifiable as the Antifa/'extreme left' and White Supremacist/'extreme right' sides.

3) Some time later, at another location, James Fields felt motivated to get into his car and accelerate it into a crowd of (in his perception) political adversaries, killing Heather Heyer, injuring others.

Pres Trump in his initial response to above sequence juxtapositioned the formally legal nature of the UtR rally with the start of violent clashing by Antifa and Supremacists, condemning (as illegal) the violence on both sides, yet foregoing denunciation of the Unite the Right rally as protected by Freedom of Speech. CNN at that point in time began, without observable basis in fact, accusing Trump of having 'equated' the two ideological sides, White Supremacists and those opposing racism. From this false premise CNN furthermore extrapolated (relying on expert panels and their guests) that the president meant to condone/justify the Supremacist violence, even suggesting he failed to condemn Heather Heyer's murder, and that he could well be a racist himself. Weirdly, none of the accusations I just listed, leveled at the US pres for a rapt global audience had any real basis in his initial statement. Can you spell spin? Paradoxically it may be argued that his remark on 'many sides', seeing (in multiple videos) the violent clash between these opposing groups, seems to represent his refusal to call out the violent actions of the Supremacists, while remaining silent on the equally violent Antifa supporters. I note that Trumps refusal to be silent here was in accordance with the law (judging actions irrespective of the person involved or their ideology, also taking into account Unite the Right's issued Permit) and WITH REALITY FOR EVERYBODY SEE!!

Trump's comm team obviously pressured him into making that second excruciatingly uncomfortable scripted/read off prompter statement, calling out the KKK etc., needed to counter the public perception the president was a probable racist, morally equating Nazism with democratic values. Perception created by media spin on what he really had said.

Third 'so NOT on Infrastructure' press statement was Donald Trump being, with all due respect, a doublin' down stubborn old fool. Should have listened to Kelly who is having a heart attack right now. laugh

To end, everything he said about Heather Heyer and her attacker James Field was right, the latter now a defendant before the courts. Nothing Trump stated showed evidence of racism. It is clear that his initial mention of 'many sides' was narrowly aimed at groups engaged in committing acts of violence, not comparing the moral virtue of ideologies (or expressing allegiance to the KKK).

It would help bigly if President Trump started working, really working WITH his Communications Team. I think/hope/pray..... wink


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xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #23 on: Aug 17th, 2017, 07:49am »

Nobody is going to worry about going to the site. I did.
It's no big deal visiting a site to research it or out of curiosity.
Dumb a** people on it, that's about all.
But clever enough to try to spin their message in a forum... sigh
What do you do about brains like this?

on Aug 15th, 2017, 7:12pm, purr wrote:
Good one Crystal. I almost clicked on it!

huh


purr
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xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #24 on: Aug 17th, 2017, 08:01am »

These people are nuts.. just shows you can psudo intellectualize anything..

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t538924/
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xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #25 on: Aug 17th, 2017, 09:24am »

Purr,
With all due respect I see those laws as idiotic. As a child the quickest way in the world to get me to read, look at, or listen to anything was to tell me that I was not allowed to do so.
WW2 ended some some 72 years ago and there are still Neo-Nazis' marching in Germany. Skinheads and other right wing groups with Nazi trappings appear all over the continent.
From this it appears that your laws do not work. Hiding it has not killed it.
Laws will not kill ideas, only exposure and discussion can undermine and expose their faults. If you will not talk about things like Socialism and the Nazi Party openly then the only source for those who may be curious are those who support the groups who will be happy to share their point of view.
Even now a movement to rid Washington DC of monuments of slave owners and confederates is building. Street names, building names, and even the Jefferson and Washington monuments are all under fire.
We see our schools and colleges returning to segregation. The thing that the Civil Rights movement struggled through the 1960's to remove is being brought back as a way to make people of color feel safer and more comfortable. Yet we will not discuss this backward moving practice because it comes from the left and is vocally supported by the leaders of their community.
Silence and turning away will not stop the progress of evil. Only confrontation will.
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xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #26 on: Aug 17th, 2017, 4:25pm »

"Mr. Trump's venting on Tuesday, in which he eagerly unburdened himself of what he viewed as political correctness in favor of a take-no-prisoners attack on the 'alt-left.' "

"Mr. Bannon has been encouraging Mr. Trump to remain defiant."

"Yet Mr. Trump's refusal Tuesday to pass an explicit moral judgement on the violence in Charlottesville seemed a genuine reflection of his beliefs. Certainly, it is similar to his refusal to condemn the tactics of autocrats like President Duterte of the Philippines or President Valdimir V. Putin of Russia."

"Top leaders of U.S. military Condemn Hate Groups"

"Trump Lawyer Spreads Email With Secessionist Rhetoric"

"The email forwarded by John Dowd, who is leading the president's legal team, painted the Confederate general Robert E. Lee in glowing terms and equated the South's rebellion to that of the American Revolution against England. It's subject line ---'The Information that Validates President Trump on Charlottesville' --- was a reference to comments Mr. Trump made earlier this week in the aftermath of protests in the Virginia college town.

'You cannot be against General Lee and be for General Washington,' the email reads, 'there literally is no difference between the two men.'

The email's author, Jerome Almon, runs several websites alleging government conspiracies and arguing that the F.B.I. has been infiltrated by Islamic terrorists."

quotes: NYT's NATIONAL - Thursday, August 17, 2017
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xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #27 on: Aug 18th, 2017, 01:05am »

on Aug 17th, 2017, 4:25pm, Erno86 wrote:
"Mr. Trump's venting on Tuesday, in which he eagerly unburdened himself of what he viewed as political correctness in favor of a take-no-prisoners attack on the 'alt-left.' "

"Mr. Bannon has been encouraging Mr. Trump to remain defiant."

"Yet Mr. Trump's refusal Tuesday to pass an explicit moral judgement on the violence in Charlottesville seemed a genuine reflection of his beliefs. Certainly, it is similar to his refusal to condemn the tactics of autocrats like President Duterte of the Philippines or President Valdimir V. Putin of Russia."

"Top leaders of U.S. military Condemn Hate Groups"

"Trump Lawyer Spreads Email With Secessionist Rhetoric"

"The email forwarded by John Dowd, who is leading the president's legal team, painted the Confederate general Robert E. Lee in glowing terms and equated the South's rebellion to that of the American Revolution against England. It's subject line ---'The Information that Validates President Trump on Charlottesville' --- was a reference to comments Mr. Trump made earlier this week in the aftermath of protests in the Virginia college town.

'You cannot be against General Lee and be for General Washington,' the email reads, 'there literally is no difference between the two men.'

The email's author, Jerome Almon, runs several websites alleging government conspiracies and arguing that the F.B.I. has been infiltrated by Islamic terrorists."

quotes: NYT's NATIONAL - Thursday, August 17, 2017


Erno86, I read through your selection of quotes several times. They beg the question: how does Trump, in your view, truly feel about the Charlottesville altercations and deadly terror attack by Fields?


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xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #28 on: Aug 18th, 2017, 02:27am »

on Aug 17th, 2017, 09:24am, skizicks wrote:
Purr,
With all due respect I see those laws as idiotic. As a child the quickest way in the world to get me to read, look at, or listen to anything was to tell me that I was not allowed to do so.
WW2 ended some some 72 years ago and there are still Neo-Nazis' marching in Germany. Skinheads and other right wing groups with Nazi trappings appear all over the continent.
From this it appears that your laws do not work. Hiding it has not killed it.
Laws will not kill ideas, only exposure and discussion can undermine and expose their faults. If you will not talk about things like Socialism and the Nazi Party openly then the only source for those who may be curious are those who support the groups who will be happy to share their point of view.
Even now a movement to rid Washington DC of monuments of slave owners and confederates is building. Street names, building names, and even the Jefferson and Washington monuments are all under fire.
We see our schools and colleges returning to segregation. The thing that the Civil Rights movement struggled through the 1960's to remove is being brought back as a way to make people of color feel safer and more comfortable. Yet we will not discuss this backward moving practice because it comes from the left and is vocally supported by the leaders of their community.
Silence and turning away will not stop the progress of evil. Only confrontation will.


Ski, to wax somewhat philosophical on the matter: you, me, all of us experience being born and growing up in a country of laws MADE WITHOUT OUR CONSENT and DESIGNED (mostly) TO LEGISLATE PREVIOUS GENERATIONS. Slapped (until some decades ago) on newborns buttocks Welcome! (to America to The Netherlands wherever).

You and me are citizens subject to more laws than we will ever be able to memorize or understand.

We can abide by most of the law by leading normal decent lives, a job, raising family, brake for red lights. But I agree some laws don't work for some individuals/groups, seem "idiotic". If a law doesn't meet your needs (like tax law toward businesses), you may negotiate/try stretching what is permissible (business) practice for example. Very very very rarely we may decide to break the law, if let's say the only way to save a life. (Break the law habitually and you will go to jail.)

To me simple logic (as described above) indicates that if we decide that a certain ideological group and their behavior (neo-nazis) has no place in our society we must outlaw them, writings, gatherings, symbols and all. To paraphrase Indiana Jones: "Those things belong in a museum!". Again I agree with you laws don't eradicate ideas, do not change flawed human nature (so some will still be drawn to harmful ideologies), but it delineates where choosing the Nazi life style will break the law and expose one to prosecution and criminal conviction.

Laws are designed to deter us from breaking them, punish us if we do, and ultimately remove harmful criminals from society.

I believe all I just told you is tried and true in democratic countries of law everywhere. It's not perfect, some law doesn't meet our special needs, and there are bad laws by corrupt lawmakers. Best game plan imo is ABIDE 90%, NEGOTIATE/STRETCH 9%, BREAK 1% (in cases of Force Majeur).

Back on topic: the Unite the Right Rally centered on General Lee's sculpture at Emancipation Park, Charlottesville was at the outset legal within US law, with Charlottesville authorities issuing a permit to stage a peaceful protest. The events this topic deals with follow from there, including Heather Heyer's death.

Might outlawing all these groups have prevented Heather's murder, nipped the riot in the bud and saved president Trump like a lot of aggravation?


purr

P.S. Skizicks, I too believe it vital to our historical understanding we keep streetnames (of some controversial/unsavory characters), ditto statues/monuments, even politically incorrect festivities associated with a troubled past (slavery/bloody battles) as long as they do not become the rallying point around which violent groups have at each other, glad to hijack that event/venue for their propaganda.
« Last Edit: Aug 18th, 2017, 04:28am by purr » User IP Logged

Let us be sure that those who come after will say of us in our time, that in our time we did everything that could be done. We finished the race; we kept them free; we kept the faith.

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xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #29 on: Aug 18th, 2017, 02:51am »

on Aug 17th, 2017, 08:01am, tommi01 wrote:
These people are nuts.. just shows you can psudo intellectualize anything..

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t538924/


Thanks for that link and the encouragement, Tommi. I clicked and began reading posts. Now my head is spinning and I'm giggling like a madwoman and can't seem to stop. Need a medicinal dose of Smirnoff vodka stat, straight from the bottle...

Thanks again.


purr
« Last Edit: Aug 18th, 2017, 02:52am by purr » User IP Logged

Let us be sure that those who come after will say of us in our time, that in our time we did everything that could be done. We finished the race; we kept them free; we kept the faith.

-RONALD REAGAN
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