Board Logo
« Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of US »

Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
Nov 17th, 2017, 11:35am


Visit the UFO Casebook Web Site

*Totally FREE 24/7 Access *Your Nickname and Avatar *Private Messages

*Join today and be a part of one of the largest UFO sites on the Net.


« Previous Topic | Next Topic »
Pages: 1 2 3 4  Notify Send Topic Print
 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of US  (Read 2015 times)
Erno86
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 3061
xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #30 on: Aug 18th, 2017, 2:56pm »

on Aug 18th, 2017, 01:05am, purr wrote:
Erno86, I read through your selection of quotes several times. They beg the question: how does Trump, in your view, truly feel about the Charlottesville altercations and deadly terror attack by Fields?


purr


White House chief strategist Stephen K. Bannon, argued that "Trump's pronouncements would rally his political base --- while also serving as a welcome distraction from the policy stumbles that have hobbled his administration." --- Even though Trump said today, that he's "getting rid of Bannon."

"Trump's new enthusiasm on statues stands apart from his views last year. On the campaign trail, Trump said he agreed with the decision in 2015 by then-South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley to remove a Confederate flag from the statehouse grounds following the mass shooting by Dylann Roof, a white supremacist who killed nine African Americans at a black church."

IMHO: Trump failed to offer moral leadership after Charlottesville.

"To date, Trump has used bigotry mainly as an electoral tool, to excite a relatively small group of supporters."

As for the deadly car terrorist attack in Charlottesville by Fields: I believe that Trump idolizes Fields as a hero, and he's {DJT} in favor of more car attacks against leftist protesters, in order to stifle protest by the left; and he's also wondering why too few leftist protesters were getting hit by cars.

"This year, Republican lawmakers in at least six states have proposed bills designed to protect drivers who strike protesters. The first bill was introduced in North Dakota in January, and similar bills have since come under consideration in North Carolina, Tennessee, Florida, Texas and Rhode Island.

They were joined by other states trying to discourage protests --- typically related to Black Lives Matter, the Dakota Access Pipeline or other left-leaning causes --- that sometimes obstruct traffic.

The North Dakota bill would shield drivers from civil and criminal liability. The bill's sponsor, state Rep. Keith Kempenich, perversely suggested that shielding drivers who kill protesters was a necessary anti-terrorism measure.

Protesters who blocked cars were committing 'an intentional act of intimidation --- the definition of terrorism,' he told the Los Angeles Times.

Right wing websites and at least one well-known conservative commentator more gleefully advocated running over protesters, including by sharing a viral video montage titled 'Here's a Reel of Cars Plowing Through Protesters Trying to Block the Road.' {Tank Man didn't make the cut, alas.}

In other words, the purpose of these proposals was to make acts of protest, and acts of protest alone, more lethal."

quotes: The Washington Post - Friday, August 17, 2017 - "Legalizing Vehicular Violence" - by Catherine Rampell

« Last Edit: Aug 18th, 2017, 3:16pm by Erno86 » User IP Logged

"It would be unsatisfactory, in my opinion, if a world without matter were possible."

Albert Einstein
purr
Global Moderator
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

..you talkin' to me...YOU TALKIN' TO ME..??!


PM

Gender: Female
Posts: 4828
xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #31 on: Aug 19th, 2017, 01:32am »

Thanks for your fascinating (and frankly shocking) perspective, Erno86. Mulling over stuff and will get back to you when I come up with a comment/opinion about all this that makes some sense.

smiley

purr
« Last Edit: Aug 19th, 2017, 01:32am by purr » User IP Logged

Let us be sure that those who come after will say of us in our time, that in our time we did everything that could be done. We finished the race; we kept them free; we kept the faith.

-RONALD REAGAN
Cliff-67
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 1931
xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #32 on: Aug 19th, 2017, 06:41am »

http://www.ibtimes.com/who-maria-chappelle-nadal-missouri-senator-under-fire-after-trump-assassination-post-2580373

I'm at a loss for words here...





« Last Edit: Aug 19th, 2017, 07:42am by Cliff-67 » User IP Logged

NEE NED ZB 6TNN DEIBEDH SIEFI EBEEE SSIEI ESEE SEEE !!
Swamprat
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 4230
xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #33 on: Aug 19th, 2017, 10:21am »

LETTER TO THE EDITOR

The South should be ashamed of the Confederacy


Why, in the South, is there persistent honoring of the Confederacy and the Civil War? You don’t find that anywhere else in the country, even though most parts of the nation participated in the events of the mid-19th century on one side or the other. Why are so many Southerners proud of a huge racist mistake?

Germany treats its Nazi era quite differently. It is ashamed, not proud, of its aberration in electing Hitler as its leader. Hitler’s generals are not recognized as heroes. There are no statues of them.

The Germans go even further. It is illegal in Germany to belong to a neo-Nazi organization, or, except for museums, to own Nazi paraphernalia. That, of course, would violate our Constitution. We will have to depend on Southerners changing their minds about all this, and they should. The schools should teach the Southern fight for slavery as shameful. Children should be warned against the lure of neo-Nazi propaganda and racist ideas.

Racism has no foundation in nature; it must be taught to exist. In the South, adults continue to embrace it and pass it on to their children, even though it is un-Christian and un-American. The South should choose to change, as many Southerners have. Confederate “paraphernalia”—flags and statues— belong in the garbage dump.

William Murdick

User IP Logged

"Let's see what's over there."
Swamprat
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 4230
xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #34 on: Aug 19th, 2017, 12:03pm »

Charlie Chaplin's last speech as the Great Dictator

As appropriate today as it was then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7GY1Xg6X20

User IP Logged

"Let's see what's over there."
Swamprat
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 4230
xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #35 on: Aug 19th, 2017, 9:41pm »

User Image
User IP Logged

"Let's see what's over there."
purr
Global Moderator
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

..you talkin' to me...YOU TALKIN' TO ME..??!


PM

Gender: Female
Posts: 4828
xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #36 on: Aug 20th, 2017, 10:41am »

on Aug 19th, 2017, 06:41am, Cliff-67 wrote:
http://www.ibtimes.com/who-maria-chappelle-nadal-missouri-senator-under-fire-after-trump-assassination-post-2580373

I'm at a loss for words here...







You and me both (+ anyone with head screwed on right, let alone a member of the US Senate) tongue, Cliff-67. Could hardly believe it and did a MSM google to exclude the possibility this was uh.. fake news. It's true. tongue

Dem State Senator Maria Chappelle-Nadal, gripped by self admitted "frustration and anger" entered this into a conversation about President Trump's supposed racist/pro-Nazi remarks:

"No. I will. I hope Trump is assassinated!"

I read this senator has since apologized, saying she was "wrong" to post it.

Imho 100% beyond the pale, she ought to resign as 'unfit to be Senator'.


angry


purr
« Last Edit: Aug 20th, 2017, 10:47am by purr » User IP Logged

Let us be sure that those who come after will say of us in our time, that in our time we did everything that could be done. We finished the race; we kept them free; we kept the faith.

-RONALD REAGAN
ZETAR
Mod Director
Global Moderator
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

GREAT SPIRITS ALWAYS ENCOUNTER THE MOST VIOLENT OPPOSITION FROM MEDIOCRE MINDS E=MC2


PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 8373
xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #37 on: Aug 20th, 2017, 11:49am »

INDENTITY POLITICS IS THE OPIATE OF THE LEMMINGS cool

i·den·ti·ty pol·i·tics ~ a tendency for people of a particular religion, race, social background, etc., to form exclusive political alliances, moving away from traditional broad-based party politics.

Identity Politics is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the Lemmings

lem·ming ~ a person who unthinkingly joins a mass movement, especially a headlong rush to destruction.

User Image

SHALOM...Z
« Last Edit: Aug 20th, 2017, 11:50am by ZETAR » User IP Logged

GREAT SPIRITS ALWAYS ENCOUNTER THE MOST VIOLENT OPPOSITION FROM MEDIOCRE MINDS E=MC2
purr
Global Moderator
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

..you talkin' to me...YOU TALKIN' TO ME..??!


PM

Gender: Female
Posts: 4828
xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #38 on: Aug 20th, 2017, 12:02pm »

on Aug 18th, 2017, 2:56pm, Erno86 wrote:
White House chief strategist Stephen K. Bannon, argued that "Trump's pronouncements would rally his political base --- while also serving as a welcome distraction from the policy stumbles that have hobbled his administration." --- Even though Trump said today, that he's "getting rid of Bannon."

"Trump's new enthusiasm on statues stands apart from his views last year. On the campaign trail, Trump said he agreed with the decision in 2015 by then-South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley to remove a Confederate flag from the statehouse grounds following the mass shooting by Dylann Roof, a white supremacist who killed nine African Americans at a black church."

IMHO: Trump failed to offer moral leadership after Charlottesville.

"To date, Trump has used bigotry mainly as an electoral tool, to excite a relatively small group of supporters."

As for the deadly car terrorist attack in Charlottesville by Fields: I believe that Trump idolizes Fields as a hero, and he's {DJT} in favor of more car attacks against leftist protesters, in order to stifle protest by the left; and he's also wondering why too few leftist protesters were getting hit by cars.

"This year, Republican lawmakers in at least six states have proposed bills designed to protect drivers who strike protesters. The first bill was introduced in North Dakota in January, and similar bills have since come under consideration in North Carolina, Tennessee, Florida, Texas and Rhode Island.

They were joined by other states trying to discourage protests --- typically related to Black Lives Matter, the Dakota Access Pipeline or other left-leaning causes --- that sometimes obstruct traffic.

The North Dakota bill would shield drivers from civil and criminal liability. The bill's sponsor, state Rep. Keith Kempenich, perversely suggested that shielding drivers who kill protesters was a necessary anti-terrorism measure.

Protesters who blocked cars were committing 'an intentional act of intimidation --- the definition of terrorism,' he told the Los Angeles Times.

Right wing websites and at least one well-known conservative commentator more gleefully advocated running over protesters, including by sharing a viral video montage titled 'Here's a Reel of Cars Plowing Through Protesters Trying to Block the Road.' {Tank Man didn't make the cut, alas.}

In other words, the purpose of these proposals was to make acts of protest, and acts of protest alone, more lethal."

quotes: The Washington Post - Friday, August 17, 2017 - "Legalizing Vehicular Violence" - by Catherine Rampell



Erno, I thought about the above, also tried to separate facts from whatever might (or might not rolleyes) be inferred from them, so here goes nothing.

I agree on a shortfall on moral leadership by the US president, although much depends on one's perspective whether his words were a not entirely successful attempt to provide same, respective of the Unite the Right protesters' Free Speech vs. criminal Antifa mob violence, or... the (alleged) bizarre endorsement of White Supremacist ideology by a POTUS.

It is a fact (with videos backing this up) that there were at least two groups (or "sides") who violently clashed at Charlottesville, who are seen committing criminal assault. I believe this two-sided clash was the subject matter of Trump's initial comment blaming "many sides". My take on it is that the president commented factually and legally correct, and presume his error was in not having his remarks thoroughly vetted, allowing for ambiguities his political opponents now have eagerly capitalized upon. Looks bad, yes Erno (yet not quite as bad as liberal media make out smiley).

Hell, this guy is flipflopping no care in the world on say preserving Confederate Heritage (present day) or having the flag taken down for museum display only (when courting moderate supporters). Like I said, I do not think Donald Trumps cares deeply about race issues either way. He just likes to win bigly, and say whatever it takes to get there.

On your contention that Trump idolized Fields as a hero, or approves of terror car attacks, ihmo that's completely baseless. He didn't say it, doesn't suggest it in any way shape or form. The only way to get there seems by IMAGINATIVELY inferring it from media spun stories his "both sides" remark must mean Trump morally equates White Supremacy with Democratic Values. Maybe you don't mind long inference chains spun every which way, sure don't make a lot of sense to me.

On using cars to strike protesters. What James Fields did is of course utterly inexcusable, legally indefensible: a intentional act of Terror. However, proposing (carefully drafted) bills to protect motorists/drivers from lawsuits from a crowd barring their way may be defended based on Right to Freedom of Movement. Provided you drive slowly on a public road, you should be within your right to pass through protests, participants willingly making a path, or risking assault(?) charges if they refuse to do so.


purr
User IP Logged

Let us be sure that those who come after will say of us in our time, that in our time we did everything that could be done. We finished the race; we kept them free; we kept the faith.

-RONALD REAGAN
Erno86
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 3061
xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #39 on: Aug 20th, 2017, 2:13pm »

"Descendants Say Confederate Statues Can Go"


"But the great-great-grandchildren of Jefferson Davis, Stonewall Jackson and Robert E. Lee, three of the Confederacy's top military and political leaders, feel different than Trump, white nationalists and the neo-Nazis.

They are not all on exactly the same page. While two of Jackson's descendants called unequivocally for the removal of Confederate statues in Richmond, Virginia, three descendants of Lee and Davis said simply that they would not object to moving such monuments to museums. But none of them sided with those Americans, including the president, who argue that removing the statues from their current locations would be an affront to history and heritage."


quote: NYT's NATIONAL - Sunday, August 20, 2017
User IP Logged

"It would be unsatisfactory, in my opinion, if a world without matter were possible."

Albert Einstein
Erno86
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 3061
xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #40 on: Aug 20th, 2017, 2:25pm »

I'm drawing a line in reference to this matter...so I am opposing the renaming of cities or towns named after Confederate military or political leaders, including the former Supreme Court Justice Taney, who wrote the Dred Scott decision --- Places like Leesburg Va. and Taneytown, Maryland. smiley
User IP Logged

"It would be unsatisfactory, in my opinion, if a world without matter were possible."

Albert Einstein
Erno86
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 3061
xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #41 on: Aug 21st, 2017, 3:18pm »

[quote author=purr link=board=announcements&num=1502790158&start=38#

On using cars to strike protesters. What James Fields did is of course utterly inexcusable, legally indefensible: a intentional act of Terror. However, proposing (carefully drafted) bills to protect motorists/drivers from lawsuits from a crowd barring their way may be defended based on Right to Freedom of Movement. Provided you drive slowly on a public road, you should be within your right to pass through protests, participants willingly making a path, or risking assault(?) charges if they refuse to do so.


purr [/quote]


"The bills all include language about how drivers who injure or kill protesters must have done so 'unintentionally' or while exercising 'due care' if they wish to be spared liability. {Hitting protesters intentionally, as the Charlottesville driver appears to have done, could still make one subject to civil and criminal liability.} Even so, the foreseeable effect of passing laws like these would be to change the calculus for any frustrated driver considering whether to plow through a crowd of protesters.


Economists tend to think about decisions in term of expected costs and benefits. By lowering the expected costs to the driver, these proposed laws would tilt the balance in favor of hitting people.

And not just any people. Protesters specifically."

quote: The same quote from the last WaPo article that I posted
« Last Edit: Aug 21st, 2017, 3:20pm by Erno86 » User IP Logged

"It would be unsatisfactory, in my opinion, if a world without matter were possible."

Albert Einstein
Erno86
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 3061
xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #42 on: Aug 21st, 2017, 3:30pm »

I'm not willing to stir up a hornets nest, by driving my car carefully through a angry crowd of protesters --- Thank-you grin

But these proposed bills might make it easier to drive cars or motorcycles by the police or military --- not to mention those unrighteous fascist alt-right militias and the KKK too boot. rolleyes
« Last Edit: Aug 21st, 2017, 3:31pm by Erno86 » User IP Logged

"It would be unsatisfactory, in my opinion, if a world without matter were possible."

Albert Einstein
purr
Global Moderator
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

..you talkin' to me...YOU TALKIN' TO ME..??!


PM

Gender: Female
Posts: 4828
xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #43 on: Aug 22nd, 2017, 02:59am »

on Aug 21st, 2017, 3:30pm, Erno86 wrote:
I'm not willing to stir up a hornets nest, by driving my car carefully through a angry crowd of protesters --- Thank-you grin

But these proposed bills might make it easier to drive cars or motorcycles by the police or military --- not to mention those unrighteous fascist alt-right militias and the KKK too boot. rolleyes


Your points are well taken Erno, and I (again) acknowledge the very real potential for passing (or having passed) bad law. But there's happily a difference between laws proposed, drafted and redrafted this way and that, and their hopefully more balanced and consensus determined final form.

Laws justifying charging cars into protester crowds at high speeds are imo examples of highly irresponsible law and would discourage citizens from exercising vital free speech rights. Bad law.

But allowing a mob (protesting sumtin isn't a get out of jail free card!) to block roads/highways infringes on Free Movement Rights. A driver ought to be within their right to slowly drive through, nice to have that on the lawbooks methinks smiley! I'm not sure I would dare, unless in a Humvee? At a snails pace of course: the objective of exercising Democratic rights is to keep our OPPONENTS (however misguided) alive and well and very much vocal, free to annoy/offend us to no end.


purr
« Last Edit: Aug 22nd, 2017, 03:04am by purr » User IP Logged

Let us be sure that those who come after will say of us in our time, that in our time we did everything that could be done. We finished the race; we kept them free; we kept the faith.

-RONALD REAGAN
Erno86
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 3061
xx Re: Honesty: Charlottesville, J A Fields + Pres of
« Reply #44 on: Aug 24th, 2017, 12:50pm »

Quote:
"A Charlottesville witness becomes a target of threats and conspiracy theories.

Brennan Gilmore filmed the moment when a car plowed into a crowd of protesters in Charlottesville, killing one woman and injuring 19 others.


Brennan Gilmore: "And they're forces that once they are sort of --- once the Pandora's box of racism is opened up, it can spiral out of control very quickly."

Source: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/witness-charlottesville-death-threats-conspiracy-theories
« Last Edit: Aug 24th, 2017, 1:05pm by Erno86 » User IP Logged

"It would be unsatisfactory, in my opinion, if a world without matter were possible."

Albert Einstein
Pages: 1 2 3 4  Notify Send Topic Print
« Previous Topic | Next Topic »

Become a member of the UFO Casebook Forum today and join our more than 19,000 members.

Visit the UFO Casebook Web Site

Donate $6.99 for 50,000 Ad-Free Pageviews!

| |

This forum powered for FREE by Conforums ©
Sign up for your own Free Message Board today!
Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | Conforums Support | Parental Controls