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 sticky  Author  Topic: What's the difference between contrail & chemtral  (Read 3988 times)
agent Scully
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xx Re: What's the difference between contrail & chemt
« Reply #15 on: Dec 4th, 2010, 04:13am »

on Sep 28th, 2008, 04:26am, hyundisonata wrote:
We had three weeks of no chem. trail, we had nice blue skies and all the aircraft that normally leave these trail had vanished except for the standard commercial flights, then all of a sudden the aircraft is back and so is white skies and chem. trails, if this is not a deliberate act then someone explain why the trails disappeared when the aircraft disappeared for three weeks, if this was normal the aircraft would have been there in the three weeks we had no chem. trails but they where not.


What types of aircraft were involved in this 'chemtrailing'? Take a photo when you next see one and publish it here, seriously. Because I have yet to see an anomalous contrailing aircraft photo anywhere! They only exist in peoples' heads as far as I can see. So convince me with a good photo of one. Please.
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xx Re: What's the difference between contrail & chemt
« Reply #16 on: Dec 4th, 2010, 12:01pm »

Hi Scully.

I have a question for you.

Did you select the name Scully (as the X files ) because every time an Incident happens (UFO above your head) you faint or some how go blind....

Just a thought..Thanks

Charrua.
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xx Chemtrail misunderstandings
« Reply #17 on: Dec 18th, 2010, 05:35am »

on Dec 4th, 2010, 12:01pm, El Charrua wrote:
Hi Scully.

I have a question for you.

Did you select the name Scully (as the X files ) because every time an Incident happens (UFO above your head) you faint or some how go blind....

Just a thought..Thanks

Charrua.

Sweeet. grin

No I selected it because although the mounting evidence for UFOs and such is mounting and is becoming undeniable, I wish to keep a clear mind and not get carried away.

As far as my opinions on chemtrail theory goes, I am a former pilot and my expertise is in aviation. This chemtrail theory is plain illogical, and it avoids the facts. It is a Jehovah's Witnesses type belief. It has no internal logic and uses a circular argument and a lack of knowledge of the subject to maintain itself. From this point of view, just like religious beliefs, it is a parasitic idea.

I have not (as yet, still waiting) seen a chemtrail photo that isn't clearly understandable by anyone with knowledge of meteorology and aviation. This is not debunking it is explaining. (Debunking is a bogus explaining-away of phenomena that should be looked into.)

There are so many conspiracy theories on this site, and the interenet. I make no comments on them because I know nothing more than anyone else about the truth or otherwise of these way out ideas. When it comes to this subject I DO know much more than the average person and so I give my information to the forum.

But I am beginning to see I am wasting my time doing this. It is clear chemtrail conspiracy, however obviously illogical, is an addictive one. Unlike most conspiracy theories this one allows anyone with a camera to watch for and photograph the 'evidence'. It is so clearly out there in the sky.

The fact that it is so obvious to everyone that should tell open minded people that there is not a conspiracy at all. Because this are always someone watching the skies and the aircraft.

Everything in upper airspace MUST be flight-planned. Every aircraft up there is a 'known'. It is not a dark area of unknown, unmarked jets. That is just how the uninformed view it. I have yet seen a chemtrail photo showing a stealth fighter so all these planes are conventional airliners or transports and cannot hide from ATC. There is no conspiracy. There would be nowhere for these planes to hide. Just because we have cameras that cannot clearly descern the aircraft making a contrail doesn't mean others with decent equipment cannot photograph and ID them clearly.
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The photo above, for example, shows an Air Gabon Boeing 747 and a Continental Airlines Boeing 777 on intersecting airways with 2000 feet vertical separation. With a decent camera nothing is hidden, five miles above our heads becomes easy to see. Yes, a small handful of these contrails are made by military aircraft too. They generally fly airline-type routes to supply troops,etc. That isn't a conspiracy either.

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The photo above clearly shows how a 747 creates a contrail. The four engines leave hot gasses which quickly cool in the -60c airmass. As it cools it reaches a 100percent condensation and forms into ice crystals around particulate neuclei in the jet effluent - ice cloud contails. Notice how the four engines' cloud streams are merged into 2 contrail streams by the vortex 'tornadoes' coming off each wing tip. (This is why all jets have twin contrails irrespective of how many engines they have.)

This is what your chemtrail is, jet outflow. How could some chemical substance survive the intense heat of a jet turbine?

If some dark agency wanted to poison us in some way then spraying the airway routes with stuff that will stay in the upper atmosphere for days and land in unpredicable areas is an illogical method. Putting stuff in the water suppy (floride) or what is sprayed on our food while it is growing in farms would be the most logical way and would give probably 99 percent coverage. The Chemtrail idea is plain illogical and unworkable. Not to mention very in-your-face obvious to the public.

I could go on and explain all these photos of chemtrails but I don't think anyone is listening. Conspiracy is too addictive. I don't think most of you chemtrail junkies wish to hear it and I suspect I am wasting my time here. Ignorance of the subject seems to be an important part of being a chemtrail conspiracist. I guess not everyone on this forum is looking for the true explanation to things.

I once made the mistake of telling a 12 year old child santa claus didn't actually exist after she'd asked me about it. That didn't go down well. This is what is happening here. You guys are asking about chemtrails but the answer is not to your liking as it threatens a cherished belief.

So I have a question for you. What is more important to you?

1. Truth whatever that is

2. Maintaining your cherished perception of the world?

I would hope the answer is both as we need both to live contented lives. But if the answer is '2' then I say go talk with some Jehovah's Witnesses and you start to respect '1' over '2' every time. wink
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« Last Edit: Dec 18th, 2010, 05:59am by agent Scully » User IP Logged

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xx Re: What's the difference between contrail & chemt
« Reply #18 on: Dec 18th, 2010, 08:42am »

Hi Agent Scully, I just wondered if you have have ever visited the nerve centre of all things chemtrail on teh intrawebz Chemtrail Central.

If you go there you might well change your mind and finally realise that during all your career as a pilot, you have been DELUDED into believing that what you think are ordinary contrails are in fact, deadly CHEMTRAILS! In fact, the very aircraft you have been flying have quite likely been spraying these chemicals without even you, the pilot, knowing about it !!

I've been to Chemtrail Central and discovered that every single day, thousands and thousands of aircraft are flying overhead and spraying all this stuff over our heads, and I am now totally shocked and upset about it. angry angry angry





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xx Re: What's the difference between contrail & chemt
« Reply #19 on: Dec 18th, 2010, 08:51am »

on Dec 18th, 2010, 08:42am, Smersh wrote:
Hi Agent Scully, I just wondered if you have have ever visited the nerve centre of all things chemtrail on teh intrawebz Chemtrail Central.

If you go there you might well change your mind and finally realise that during all your career as a pilot, you have been DELUDED into believing that what you think are ordinary contrails are in fact, deadly CHEMTRAILS! In fact, the very aircraft you have been flying have quite likely been spraying these chemicals without even you, the pilot, knowing about it !!

I've been to Chemtrail Central and discovered that every single day, thousands and thousands of aircraft are flying overhead and spraying all this stuff over our heads, and I am now totally shocked and upset about it. angry angry angry

wink


Is this what you are talking about Smersh?

BBC Something in the Air - Toxic Chemtrails Video

http://pindz.blogspot.com/2010/02/bbc-something-in-air-toxic-chemtrails.html
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xx Re: What's the difference between contrail & chemt
« Reply #20 on: Dec 18th, 2010, 09:20am »

on Dec 18th, 2010, 08:51am, Luvey wrote:
Is this what you are talking about Smersh?

BBC Something in the Air - Toxic Chemtrails Video

http://pindz.blogspot.com/2010/02/bbc-something-in-air-toxic-chemtrails.html


No not at all Luvey. That's a BBC Panorama documentary that was broadcast in 2008 about possible ill-effects in aircraft cabins from toxic fumes coming into the cabin from the normal chemicals contained in engine oil. It has nothing whatsoever to do with "chemtrails" and in fact, the author of that blog gave the documentary a misleading title. It wasn't called "Something In The Air - Toxic Chemtrails" at all but just "Something In The Air."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/7351093.stm

It's another matter entirely and is a technical issue to do with the air quality in the aircraft cabin and there is no mention at all in the programme of "chemtrails." I believe it's a problem that has affected certain aircraft such as the BAE146 and as I understand it, engine and air conditioning modifications have been put into place to address the problem.

Agent Scully might know something more about this possibly.
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xx Re: What's the difference between contrail & chemt
« Reply #21 on: Dec 18th, 2010, 5:52pm »

Smersh, yes cabin air quality is a scandal. These airlines could use slightly more jet fuel to give passengers fresher air in the cabin. Instead they recycle it several times and if someone has a bug it will circulate to others. I would prefer to pay the extra 2 - 5 percent fuel costs to fly without catching everyone's cold and flu bugs.

Smersh? Chemtrails, you too? you guys are kidding, right?

I am scared to find you are serious. Really.

Have any of you thought through the technical problems that such a world wide action would bring. There are 1 million commercial flights a day around the world. If people are serious that commercial flights are somehow spraying us all with some toxic mind agent then they might just belong to the paranoid crazy bunny club of which I thought I was the founding member, but I don't think I am any more. I don't think I am paranoid enough to keep my membership of the crazy bunny club or this forum.

Here's me, thinking I am pretty weird, with alien abduction experiences and all. But hell, I am not as crazy as I thought. I cannot see how chemtrails can be happening, either technically or socially.

yes, there are peeps on this screwed up planet who for sure would do this to us. I am thinking Stalin, Hitler, the older George Bush, even. But the technicalities are too profound to be able to keep it secret for long.

I don't think I belong on this forum. I am starting to feel like I did on OMF. Uncomfortable. Not a Fitter Inner. Such is life.
« Last Edit: Dec 18th, 2010, 6:47pm by agent Scully » User IP Logged

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xx Re: What's the difference between contrail & chemt
« Reply #22 on: Dec 18th, 2010, 8:35pm »

on Dec 18th, 2010, 5:52pm, agent Scully wrote:
... Smersh? Chemtrails, you too? you guys are kidding, right? ...


I just couldn't resist being a little sarcastic there at the expense of the "chemtrail conspiracy" believers AS and I did put a little wink smiley underneath. wink I've made a few other posts here from time to time about them - in fact if you check my post number 27 in this thread that one pretty much sums up my views on the matter. In fact, seeing as I have that thread open atm, I guess I might as well quote myself. It was a reply to Raziel, who was asking for people's opinions on the subject:

on Nov 11th, 2010, 9:03pm, Smersh wrote:


Hi Raziel, here's my opinion:

Almost without exception, every picture posted on the net of "chemtrails" is in fact nothing more than ordinary contrails. If you go into Google Images and search "chemtrails" lots and lots of pictures of contrails will appear. Here's one example:

User Image

The above picture has been posted many times on the net and called a "chemtrail."

However, the same picture can also be found at Airliners.net in a gallery of aircraft enthusiasts' pictures of condensation trails here. The anoraks / geeks who spend much of their life writing down aircraft tail numbers in notebooks (sad I know, and don't ask me why they do it!) certainly know an aircraft contrail when they see one imo, because this type of thing is a labour of love for them. tongue

I've posted in several chemtrails threads on other boards in the past to do my best to debunk them, but having said that, I'm not suggesting that chemtrails don't exist at all. For a start, there is crop spraying and cloud seeding, both of which involve the dispersal of chemicals into the atmosphere. Additionally, there does seem to be some evidence that governments have indulged in secret chemical spraying in the past for whatever reason, for example the British government between 1940 and 1979, in secret biological warfare tests.

The problem I have with all the conspiracy theories about chemtrails on the internet is that the "evidence" produced to support the claims is normally just endless pictures of ordinary contrails, produced by commercial passenger aircraft and, based on those pictures, people believing that thousands of aircraft are flying overhead daily and routinely spraying chemicals, which is utter nonsense. And I know for a fact it is utter nonsense because I spent 28 years working in the aviation industry in engineering.


As for "Chemtrail Central," I gave you that link in case you hadn't seen it. That site seems to be where much of the nonsense about chemtrails on the internet springs from. Not only that, but if you go into their forum and try to debunk them it seems they get very upset and you will soon find yourself banned, which is what has happened to several people including Essan, who posts quite a bit against chemtrails over at ATS and has made some posts here at UCB as well in a few threads. rolleyes

I guess we can only do our best though - a lot of people seem to WANT to believe all this nonsense.
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xx Re: What's the difference between contrail & chemt
« Reply #23 on: Dec 19th, 2010, 06:54am »

[quote author=Smersh]
[/quote]
Phew! I was getting worried there. One reason I came back to this site is that there is a core of serious thinking people who dilligently question things. You are one of them which is why it surprised me so much.

It scares me to see true-believer sites and posts. I don't know exactly why that is but I think maybe in a past life I was burned at the stake by true-believers who thought I was a witch or something. LOL!

It scares me to think the world could be run by such irrational people, as in the past 2000 years of the Roman church and those dark times for Europe.

I have known several Jehovah's Witnesses, lovely peeps, but impossible to have a rational conversation with.

Aviation enthusiasts are, as you say, incredibly dedicated peeps. They probably know more about the general aviation scene than aviation professionals, who generally stick to their specialities. I bet some of these plane watchers are out there right now taking photos at an airport in the freezing snow and wind. I guess a hobby is something that has no gain or real aim. Something to allow us to switch off from goals and targets. From that point of view a hobby is 'pointless' by nature.

If I was as paranoid as some, I would start a thread here saying these true-believers are a shadow gov. plant to muddy the waters so we cannot see the wood from the trees and get distracted away from the (and there must be some because the war in Iraq made no sense re: 9/11 and Al Quada) real conspiracies going on in our world.

I agree with you, too many 'normal' contrail photos on the internet. If a minority of aeroplanes were doing this seeding then what better way to hide it than to have thousands of 'chemtrail' photos that are just normal photos of jet contrails?

There are many far better ways of putting 'toxins' into us than by jets overhead. I see these are also conspiracy theories too. I am in two minds about these but I don't know enough to decide if we are really being manipulated or in that way or not. I wonder if the dropping male spermcount is proof or just a side effect of human stupidity with hormones in the water, etc.

Apologies by suggesting you were a stupido. I have not been on forum long enough to have looked at back-issues. There is so much to read on this forum.

I may visit chemtrail central and share my theory that seed eating birds are leaving a chemtrail of farts and behind them as part of a global conspiracy to smell up the air.

shocked
« Last Edit: Dec 19th, 2010, 06:59am by agent Scully » User IP Logged

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xx Re: What's the difference between contrail & chemt
« Reply #24 on: Dec 19th, 2010, 1:55pm »

on Dec 19th, 2010, 06:54am, agent Scully wrote:
... Apologies by suggesting you were a stupido. I have not been on forum long enough to have looked at back-issues. There is so much to read on this forum ...


No problem at all. And perhaps I shouldn't have made that post the way I did so my apologies too. And you're right about there being a lot to read here - in just this chemtrails section alone there are something like 200 threads on the subject when probably just one would do. I also don't understand why it even needs a dedicated section, or why it's called "Chemtrails and UFOs." What on Earth have UFOs got to do with chemtrails?

on Dec 19th, 2010, 06:54am, agent Scully wrote:
I may visit chemtrail central and share my theory that seed eating birds are leaving a chemtrail of farts and behind them as part of a global conspiracy to smell up the air.


Lol! If you go there, make sure you're wearing your chemtrail "tinfoil hat." wink And as I mentioned earlier, don't be surprised if you find you've been banned after you've made a few posts - they don't seem to like common sense over there very much. wink
« Last Edit: Dec 19th, 2010, 2:07pm by Smersh » User IP Logged

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xx Re: What's the difference between contrail & chemt
« Reply #25 on: Dec 21st, 2010, 06:58am »

Smersh..

I never go anywhere without my tinfoil hat! I will definitely wear it to Chemtrail Central when I visit! cool
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xx Re: What's the difference between contrail & chemt
« Reply #26 on: Dec 21st, 2010, 8:46pm »

on Dec 19th, 2010, 06:54am, agent Scully wrote:
I may visit chemtrail central and share my theory that seed eating birds are leaving a chemtrail of farts and behind them as part of a global conspiracy to smell up the air.

shocked


I wouldn't go pushing that theory too much or we could have a hardcore sect of 'birdtrail' believers here soon to contend with as well! Actually we should probably not even mention it too loudly. People seem far to keen on taking abstract and absurd ideas as a core belief sometimes.

Perhaps these chemtrails are actually beneficial and are part of an aerial campaign against the birds in their own domain!
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xx Re: What's the difference between contrail & chemt
« Reply #27 on: Jan 22nd, 2011, 08:08am »

Kevin Smith did a show about chemtrails this week and he posted this pic on his website and claimed that the airliner in the background would release "real chemtrails". I believe I've seen that pic already somewhere. Or it's maybe even a screenshot taken from a youtube vid. Am not sure. But I believe it already has been explained somewhere else that this pic does indeed show ordinary contrails and not chemtrails.

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« Last Edit: Jan 22nd, 2011, 08:09am by philliman » User IP Logged

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xx Re: What's the difference between contrail & chemt
« Reply #28 on: Jan 22nd, 2011, 08:59am »

The biggest difference (other than the way they look!) is that ordinary contrails do not produce clouding up of the sky and almost immediate rain... chemtrails do.
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xx Re: What's the difference between contrail & chemt
« Reply #29 on: Jan 24th, 2011, 09:50am »

Right on Seeker...some of us have eyes that can see 'something' is going on smiley

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