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 sticky  Author  Topic: Derbyshire Chemtrails  (Read 8444 times)
Smersh
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xx Re: Derbyshire Chemtrails
« Reply #15 on: Feb 11th, 2008, 5:49pm »

Hi Vinya

The trails you are referring to are in the Derbyshire area, which is right around the flights paths of aircraft approaching, departing and overflying East Midlands Airport, Manchester Airport, Birmingham Airport and others.

Also, aircraft departing and arriving Heathrow and Gatwick will fly over that area frequently on transatlantic routes. There are a lot of NDB's and VOR's (navigational beacons) in that area that aircraft will navigate to, depending on the instructions from Air Traffic Control, which vary frequently. There are far more "flight paths" than most people imagine.

It is a very "crowded sky" in that area, a bit like the "Piccadilly Circus" of UK airspace, if you like.

Regarding contrails, it is a fallacy that they "disappear after 20 minutes." They usually last considerably longer than that, and sometimes for 24 hours or even more, depending on atmospheric and weather conditions.

It's been suggested the aircraft are "unmarked." Unless they are observed with binoculars or a telescope though, it's impossible to establish any markings with the naked eye because of the altitude the aircraft have to fly at to create contrails. Because the planes are viewed from underneath, it is extremely difficult to see the markings even with binoculars.

The altitude the aircraft are flying at in the pictures posted here are at least at 25,000 feet, and probably as high as 33 - 35,000 feet, in cruise.

I'll have a look to see what links I can find concerning chemtrails and contrails. In the chemtrails I have seen, the aircraft were at a much lower altitude and the trails were frequently coloured.

Also, as I said, I can take some photos of the trails where I live, which are identical to the ones here.

Will have to wait till tomorrow though, as it's dark now. wink
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xx Re: Derbyshire Chemtrails
« Reply #16 on: Feb 11th, 2008, 6:36pm »

I have only one question about that Smersh;

If it is coming from normal planes, and those planes travel over that path everyday... then why is it only sometimes do the trails appear? wink
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xx Re: Derbyshire Chemtrails
« Reply #17 on: Feb 11th, 2008, 6:57pm »

Depends on atmospheric and weather condtions, temperature, pressure in millibars, that sort of thing Nephilim. I'll try to come back with a more detailed answer tomorrow. wink
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xx Re: Derbyshire Chemtrails
« Reply #18 on: Feb 11th, 2008, 7:35pm »

I live in Greater Manchester and planes are flying over my home 24/7. I have seen planes leave a short trail that fizzles out as fast as it is left and i have seen trails that spread out and stay for hours. I have also noticed that, as another poster commented, it seems that when we have a clear blue sky the trails seem to appear. I have heard various explanations from a person who works in the airline industry; eg. it is down to different fuels, one leaves a trail the other doesn't, or it is down to altitude and weather conditions. I kept an open mind on this until yesterday when i observed two planes flying over my house at similar altitudes, one had markings i recognised (mr stelios's company) the other I didn't. They were flying almost parallel, with a bit of a gap in between of course, and the orange and white one was giving off a trail that dispersed quite quickly while the other gave off a trail that stayed put and eventually spread out across the sky. Now that really made me think that there could be something to this!
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xx Re: Derbyshire Chemtrails
« Reply #19 on: Feb 12th, 2008, 05:15am »

on Feb 11th, 2008, 6:57pm, Smersh wrote:
Depends on atmospheric and weather condtions, temperature, pressure in millibars, that sort of thing Nephilim. I'll try to come back with a more detailed answer tomorrow. wink


I think you need to do more research, , the government has already admitted to spraying us see links.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4398507,00.html

http://www.chycho.com/?q=Chemtrails



And people have come forword to say they have seen the planes being loaded with the chemicals . Here is a photo I posted on another thread where you can see the normal contrails and chem trails side by side.
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There is to much evidents to just push this aside as normal. And I have seen planes flying close to normal planes . I believe this is done to try to help them bland in with other planes so we get use to seeing the trails and think them normal. the people they need to convince the most are people who work at airports as they see more planes that most ,so to spray near the air ports would help workers to think they are normal.
They also spray only one or two trails on some days just to familiarise us with them so we take less notice on heavy chem trail spraying days. On these days there are far to many planes in the sky for this to be normal passenger planes and they spray in a criss cross paten. I have seen this myself .they sprayed so much the sky went dark.. its easy to be lead to believe this is all normal, but researching this shows its far from it.
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xx Re: Derbyshire Chemtrails
« Reply #20 on: Feb 12th, 2008, 05:42am »

Hi again Vinya,

I do not doubt that may well be the case, in fact, if the government released that report, it must be true! But I still say that all the pictures in this thread, including the ones you have just posted, are contrails, not chemtrails.

Regarding the German Govt, I did post in the thread started by Lawwalk about that. The German Govt did not admit to anything of the sort. It was a TV News report, accusing the govt of producing chemtrails, and a German Green party member who commented on the article.

Weather conditions today near Heathrow are not good, (overcast) so far, for me taking any pictures, but could change later.

I think I'll start my own separate thread, so we can address ALL the chemtrail threads here. wink
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xx Re: Derbyshire Chemtrails
« Reply #21 on: Feb 12th, 2008, 05:56am »

on Feb 11th, 2008, 7:35pm, lozzyb wrote:
I live in Greater Manchester and planes are flying over my home 24/7. I have seen planes leave a short trail that fizzles out as fast as it is left and i have seen trails that spread out and stay for hours. I have also noticed that, as another poster commented, it seems that when we have a clear blue sky the trails seem to appear. I have heard various explanations from a person who works in the airline industry; eg. it is down to different fuels, one leaves a trail the other doesn't, or it is down to altitude and weather conditions. I kept an open mind on this until yesterday when i observed two planes flying over my house at similar altitudes, one had markings i recognised (mr stelios's company) the other I didn't. They were flying almost parallel, with a bit of a gap in between of course, and the orange and white one was giving off a trail that dispersed quite quickly while the other gave off a trail that stayed put and eventually spread out across the sky. Now that really made me think that there could be something to this!


Hi lozzyb,

The Easyjet plane you mentioned would not have been making chemtrails, but the other may have. It does sound a bit odd to me from the way you describe it.

Are you sure the 2 planes were flying at about the same altitude, would you say? If they were, that is a little strange I think. If they were not, that would explain the difference between the 2 trails, as the behaviour of contrails is partly dependent on altitude, I believe.

How close together, horizontally, would you say the planes were? There has to be a separation of at least a couple of miles usually, depending on what type of plane. One also might have been higher than the other (ie, giving vertical separation.)
« Last Edit: Feb 12th, 2008, 06:00am by Smersh » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Derbyshire Chemtrails
« Reply #22 on: Feb 12th, 2008, 07:34am »

on Feb 12th, 2008, 05:15am, vinya12 wrote:
And people have come forword to say they have seen the planes being loaded with the chemicals .


Sorry I just noticed you wrote that. What people, what planes, what chemicals, have you any idea?
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xx Re: Derbyshire Chemtrails
« Reply #23 on: Dec 9th, 2010, 5:37pm »

on Feb 11th, 2008, 2:49pm, Smersh wrote:
And abductees' accounts are so similar that there has to be an underlying reality behind it.

You are wasting your breath Smersh. There is not convincing the ignorant conspiracy theorist. They just need to belong and if photographing busy upper airspace makes them feel they are revealing some secret that others are too stupid to ''see" then let them have their delusions.

I tried to explain the nature of these things to the blinkered true believers on OMF and they didn't listen one jot. They seem to feel that nobody in the airline industry would be aware of this if it was really going on. A 747 carries 100 tonnes of jetA. How much of that is going to be mind control liquid? 10percent? More? No airline would carry that knowingly and it would not survive the burning as it went through the engines anyway.

I don't believe you are right about military chemtrailing. The people who work for the Air Forces of the western world would not keep quiet about it. I know RAF transport pilots who fly C-130 Hercs and C-17 globemaster jets. They would have to be privvy to such activities to carry them out as missions.

I think the Chemtrail conspiracy is allied to the Illuminati Conspiracy. No normal government would be spraying their citizens. It would have to be some clandestine black government group.

And the final nail in the coffin of chemtrail nonsense is that it would be much easier to mess with our water supplies. Almost everyone would be affected if the water was messed with.

I see the same UFIR traffic you do as I live west of Heathrow along what used to be Green 1 - the main airway for overflights between the US and Canada, and Northern Europe. Now, like most busy routes it has become 30 miles wide and more than a simple airway.

Some days the contrail traffic is thick with Boeings and Airbuses going over the oggin. What happens to all these chemtrails after the jetliners leave Eireland? They continue to contrail for 8 hours until the jets reach the eastern seaboard of USA. So who are they chemtrailing? The fish of the Atlantic ocean?

I have never seen a chemtrail photo. Like you I know an innocent ice crystal contrail when I see one. Pity there are so many people who no nothing about aviation but are experts on how planes fly.

I wonder what causes people to become such extreme paranoids? Skunk probably.

I would suggest to everyone who genuinely believes the airlines of the world are spraying us with some sort of mind control stuff, to phone the police and tell them that. I guarantee you will end up being taken by the cops for an emergency assessment at your local mental health hospital.

Forums like this start our asking questions that make sense to the wondering soul. And they end up as pure paranoia factories. It does my head in because it distracts from the real issues.

Screw you guys, I am going home!
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« Last Edit: Dec 9th, 2010, 5:46pm by agent Scully » User IP Logged

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xx Chemtrail Junkies
« Reply #24 on: Dec 9th, 2010, 6:03pm »

on Feb 11th, 2008, 7:35pm, lozzyb wrote:
I live in Greater Manchester and planes are flying over my home 24/7. I have seen planes leave a short trail that fizzles out as fast as it is left and i have seen trails that spread out and stay for hours. I have also noticed that, as another poster commented, it seems that when we have a clear blue sky the trails seem to appear. I have heard various explanations from a person who works in the airline industry; eg. it is down to different fuels, one leaves a trail the other doesn't, or it is down to altitude and weather conditions. I kept an open mind on this until yesterday when i observed two planes flying over my house at similar altitudes, one had markings i recognised (mr stelios's company) the other I didn't. They were flying almost parallel, with a bit of a gap in between of course, and the orange and white one was giving off a trail that dispersed quite quickly while the other gave off a trail that stayed put and eventually spread out across the sky. Now that really made me think that there could be something to this!

Aircraft above FL245 are separated vertically by 2000 feet. From the ground this looks almost the same height but the lower jet will be flying in different air. It is the airmass that is primarily responsible for whether contrails occur or not (or how long they remain or how bloated they become).

Your two planes will have been vertically separated by law by at least 2000 feet altitude. The lower guy would want to go higher but until the other guy is five miles away he is stuck underneath.

Another point is that the air is mixed up with differing areas of temperature and humidity. If you find a good contrail day and just watch the planes and contrails without having a paranoia episode, you will see how it works up there. A plane can fly through dryish air and the contrail will almost quickly fade. Then a few miles further on it flies through an are of high moisture (like fog banks) and the contrail suddenly bloats out and stays around for an hour after the jet is gone.

Now someone who is suffering from a scary paranoia will take this to mean the pilot decided to 'spray' at that point. If you understood meterology and the science of the atmosphere it would make sense to you.

Derbyshire is underneath a major aerial artery going from north to south. Also there are west-east crossing airways too. So you will see this stuff all the time when the upper atmosphere is at the correct temperature and humidity. I could even predict days when the sky would be full of contrails. I can do that because what is happening is governed by laws of nature and science and not by a bad pilot pulling a lever and dumping brain-kill on the countryside.

You will see contrails in the airmass ahead of an approaching warm front and also in a humid anticyclone. We get mostly humid anticyclones here in the UK, especially in winter, because we are an island surrounded by the oceans. It is really very simple to understand but you have to want to. If a paranoid belief system is the emotional fix you need then that sounds like an addiction to me, rather than a truth seeker.

If you don't believe me then ask another pilot. But you won't find many pilots visiting this site, will you? Because when they read the extremely paranoid views of so many here, they will bug out. I am here because I forgot how many gullibles are on these sites. I put up with it because there are some truly clever and clear thinkers here too. What category would you prefer to be in?

That is why they show differing contrails. It is simple really. No conspiracy going on (not with chemtrails anyway).

« Last Edit: Dec 9th, 2010, 6:06pm by agent Scully » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Derbyshire Chemtrails
« Reply #25 on: Dec 9th, 2010, 7:48pm »

on Dec 9th, 2010, 5:37pm, agent Scully wrote:
<snip>

I don't believe you are right about military chemtrailing. The people who work for the Air Forces of the western world would not keep quiet about it. I know RAF transport pilots who fly C-130 Hercs and C-17 globemaster jets. They would have to be privvy to such activities to carry them out as missions.

<snip>

Hi Scully,

It depends entirely on your belief I guess as the facts show it’s an unfounded belief, granted the following example involved spraying the Wiltshire countryside but it constitutues a 'chemtrail'.

Whilst I don't believe chemtrails exist in the sense of the current usage of the term in this thread, it is however documented fact that the military have intentionally sprayed what are essentially trails of chemicals whilst in UK airspace. (And this isn’t some black government group but UK & US military personnel).

on Feb 11th, 2008, 2:49pm, Smersh wrote:
<snip>

The real chemtrails that I suspect do exist are created just by military aircraft, not civilian.


This is what I believe Smersh was saying (in 2008), i.e. not that it's common practice but that it's the only valid instance of chemtrails being deployed as claimed and it is always by the military.

The following is from the Sunday Times (October 10, 2002)

Quote:
US planes sprayed Wiltshire with Sarin

CROPDUSTER aircraft flown by British and US military personnel sprayed deadly chemical weapons, including Sarin and VX, over the Wiltshire countryside in the late 1960s. News of the tests is broken in declassified documents released this week by the Pentagon.

They took place at the highly secretive Porton Down facility near Salisbury, despite there being virtually no information about the long-term health effects of even very low exposures to the lethal nerve agents.

As well as Sarin and VX, the tests involved Soman and Tabun. According to the documents, seen by The Times, the chemical weapons were used on open grassland and woodland.

The Ministry of Defence said last night that none of the tests was carried out on human beings or animals. The only people concerned were the military and scientists studying the effects of the chemical and biological tests.

More than 600 documents exist detailing the experiments in the 1960s: “The documents speak for themselves,” a ministry spokesman said.

The object of spraying Sarin, Tabun and VX gases over fields and woods was to see “how they would be affected by the climate and other atmospheric conditions”. Tests at sea were to check how chemical and biological agents might affect warships.

Hundreds of documents have been released by the Public Record Office in Kew about chemical and biological experiments at Porton Down in the 1950s and 1960s when human beings were used as guinea pigs. Those tests, however, involved small amounts of the gases and agents in laboratory conditions.

Those who “volunteered” from the military have claimed in recent years that they were told the experiments were about the common cold. Wiltshire police are investigating the case of Ronald Maddison, who died in 1953 after Sarin was put on his skin.

The Pentagon released the new files at the request of the Department of Veterans’ Affairs, which is lobbying for extra healthcare services for the 5,000 or so Americans involved in chemical and biological weapons testing.

It is not known how many Britons were involved, but claims for extra healthcare benefits by US servicemen could prompt similar claims in the UK — if any are still alive.

The test results are not known. It is also not known if the deadly agents were used directly on military personnel.

Crop-dusting was not the only method used to “weaponise” the nerve agents. The files explain how British and US military personnel used “rain-type” munitions and bombs.

The declassified documents acknowledge a far wider use of chemical and biological weapons than admitted by the British or US Governments. The disclosure could not come at a worse time for Tony Blair and President Bush, who argue that Iraq’s stockpiling of such nerve agents justifies a “regime change”. President Saddam Hussein used chemical weapons in the Iraq-Iran war in the 1980s and against his own Kurdish citizens.

Sarin, infamously used on the Tokyo subway by a terrorist group in 1995, causes a runny nose, watery eyes and breathing difficulty. It soon leads to vision problems, confusion, a coma, then death. VX causes vomiting and violent fits before death, all within about 15 minutes.

According to the documents, the project was ordered by Robert McNamara, the US Secretary of Defence, just after President Kennedy’s inauguration in 1961 and when Harold Macmillan was Prime Minister. The tests did not take place until 1967 and 1968, when Lyndon Johnson was US President and Harold Wilson was Prime Minister. The Porton Down tests were part of a British, US and Canadian programme. The US scrapped its biological weapons programme in the late 1960s.


Source.


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xx Re: Derbyshire Chemtrails
« Reply #26 on: Dec 9th, 2010, 8:26pm »

Well that solves that. Now can you fake the dent out of Camilla and Charles car!
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