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 sticky  Author  Topic: Charrua Chemtrails and other over London  (Read 3272 times)
Essan
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xx Re: Charrua Chemtrails and other over London
« Reply #15 on: Aug 1st, 2008, 09:26am »

on Aug 1st, 2008, 08:57am, Lawwalk wrote:
How can you tell the difference? Post ONE picture of a Chemtrail,that's all I ask,just one. Surely there's one among all the contrails that you say everyone here is posting...


But why should there be? If people are continuing being mislead into thinking contrails are chemtrails, and thus take photos of normal contrails, one would expect those pictures to show normal contrails. I've never seen one that appeared to be anything else.

I have seen pictures of aircraft spraying ..... but never of any such spraying remaining visible in the sky for more than a few seconds.

Indeed, one might argue that that's a fundamental difference? If it doesn't disappear after a few seconds it's definitely a contrail.
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xx Re: Charrua Chemtrails and other over London
« Reply #16 on: Aug 1st, 2008, 11:38am »

on Aug 1st, 2008, 08:37am, Essan wrote:
Too late now, but last year the Cloud Appreciation Society ran a petition to stop these so-called 'chemtrails' - which as Smersh rightly points out are just contrails.

http://www.cloudappreciationsociety.org/petition-against-contrails/

Such contrails do mess up the skies and may even cause some global warming. But the only way we can really stop them is to stop flying.


I'm please to see there are websites about clouds Essan, because I think they are beautiful things myself! (Although I won't go into that too much as it will take the thread off topic.)

Regarding contrails damaging the enivironment, yes I have heard that as well. A difference was noticed I think during the 3 days following the 9/11 attacks, when no aircraft were flying acoss the whole of the US.

There is a BBC article here, that describes how contrails are formed, and also mentions the possible effect they have on global warming and the environment.

Until some technology is invented though, that allows aircraft to fly without creating contrails, then as you pointed out, the only way to stop them would be to stop air travel altogether.

on Aug 1st, 2008, 08:57am, Lawwalk wrote:
How can you tell the difference? Post ONE picture of a Chemtrail,that's all I ask,just one. Surely there's one among all the contrails that you say everyone here is posting...


But that's the very problem you see. The best I can do is to post photoshopped pictures of what chemtrails might look like. I have scoured the net, trying to find trails that are not contrails, and so far I can't find anything other than photoshops.

I believe the reason for that is beacuse chemtrails are nothing like as common as we are led to believe, from all the web sites about them and all the pictures (of contrails.)

If I do come across anything that looks suspicious (that isn't a photoshop,) I'll post it.
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xx Re: Charrua Chemtrails and other over London
« Reply #17 on: Aug 1st, 2008, 12:01pm »

on Aug 1st, 2008, 09:26am, Essan wrote:
... I have seen pictures of aircraft spraying ..... but never of any such spraying remaining visible in the sky for more than a few seconds.

Indeed, one might argue that that's a fundamental difference? If it doesn't disappear after a few seconds it's definitely a contrail.


That may well be a difference actually, but perhaps it would depend on what chemicals are being sprayed, and at what altitude.

It needs more research, which is very difficult to do, because of the forest of contrails we have to wade through!
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El Charrua
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xx Re: Charrua Chemtrails and other over London
« Reply #18 on: Aug 1st, 2008, 5:13pm »

Hi all.

Sorry for starting a fire in this thread.
first let me state that I never touch or modify the photos that i take in any way whatsoever.
The reason that I am concerned about this strange happenings , is that these trails left by aircraft over my house day in day out ,do not decipate like normal aircraft contrails.
These trails stay there for quite a long time and start to spread over a large area of the sky , blocking the blue sky above on many many ocations , and when its really bad here in London , you cannot see the blue sky anymore .
starts in the morning around 6am and it continues until 8-9 pm.
I cannot state what they are , I am not an expert in this field , you Smersh are not an expert either , at least you can come with some definite evidence we can all keep on debating what this is , because the goverment wont help!
After all , all they would have to do is get a hot air balloon or helicopter to get some specimen of the trails ,but naaaaa too hard.
I will keep on posting more photos here for all to see and study .
Thanks for the complement Lawwalk.

Charrua

These were taken Friday the 1st of August at 8pm.

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee191/loscharrua/1.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee191/loscharrua/2.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee191/loscharrua/3.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee191/loscharrua/4.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee191/loscharrua/5.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee191/loscharrua/6.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee191/loscharrua/CIMG3322.jpg
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xx Re: Charrua Chemtrails and other over London
« Reply #19 on: Aug 1st, 2008, 6:08pm »

Hi El Charrua,

I'm not saying you are posting photoshopped pictures at all. All I'm saying is the pictures you are posting are of ordinary contrails.

The photoshops I'm referring to are the chemtrail ones that I posted here and in another thread, because they are the only ones I can find online, but should still serve to illustrate my point.

It's not true that contrails only last a short period of time, as I have mentioned elsewhere. That is part of the problem you see, people posting the pictures of contrails, claiming them to be chemtrails, all seem to think that contrails disappear after about 20 minutes, do not spread wide, do not "criss-cross" etc etc.

This is not the case at all. Contrails can linger for many hours after being formed and even for a day or more, depending on the atmospheric conditions. They can frequently "spread wide" as well. Only this evening I saw a contrail above my house that had spread VERY wide indeed, and was gradually getting wider, after having been formed a few hours previously.

As for me not being an expert, what I do know is from spending 28 years in the civil aviation industry, before I retired, in engineering. I know how civilian airliners operate and I can assure you that spraying chemtrails most definitely does NOT form part of that operation.

If you haven't read through it yet, please see the thread I started some months ago here. There are also links in that thread to sites explaining how contrails are formed, but the BBC link I gave earlier in this thread also explains it.
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Essan
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xx Re: Charrua Chemtrails and other over London
« Reply #20 on: Aug 8th, 2008, 07:53am »

Here's an interesting paper - which includes some photos - that was published in the Journal of Atmospheric Sciences in 1970 and in which contrails are specifically described as persisting and spreading out across the sky. Which shows that, whatever some may claim, it's not a new phenomena and has been know of and studied by science for 40 years.

http://ams.allenpress.com/archive/1520-0469/27/6/pdf/i1520-0469-27-6-937.pdf
« Last Edit: Aug 8th, 2008, 07:53am by Essan » User IP Logged

Andy

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Lawwalk
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xx Re: Charrua Chemtrails and other over London
« Reply #21 on: Aug 9th, 2008, 03:30am »

on Aug 1st, 2008, 09:26am, Essan wrote:
But why should there be? If people are continuing being mislead into thinking contrails are chemtrails, and thus take photos of normal contrails, one would expect those pictures to show normal contrails. I've never seen one that appeared to be anything else.

I have seen pictures of aircraft spraying ..... but never of any such spraying remaining visible in the sky for more than a few seconds.

Indeed, one might argue that that's a fundamental difference? If it doesn't disappear after a few seconds it's definitely a contrail.


Hey Essan

Some of us are not misled by what we see in the skies. I see jets regularly spray over Texas. I am not in a commercial travel zone so they are not passenger jets. You say you have seen jets spraying and the trails dissipate and if I understand you right,these are chemtrails? My opinion is that statement is completely backwards. When a jet lays a trail exactly where he wants it and cuts the spray off,in my opinion this is not a contrail,may not be a chemtrail either,but it's artificial. I have several photos and videos I have taken that show this. If you tell me these may be artificial contrails,then I might believe that. The only question I have is,should we call them Chemtrails or something else? Here's a recent photo I took of a jet over my house in Texas with an on/off switch....

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Lawwalk
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El Charrua
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xx Re: Charrua Chemtrails and other over London
« Reply #22 on: Aug 9th, 2008, 08:31am »

Hi all.

I have too seen contrails/ chemtrails over London that look like that.

I wondered why a certain part of the sky would get the markings and others dont.

Regards

Charrua

Ps nice pic Lawwalk.
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El Charrua
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xx Re: Charrua Chemtrails and other over London
« Reply #23 on: Jul 16th, 2009, 6:42pm »

Hi

Something interesting in this field.

This could bring answers , very interesting.

Please take a look at this site and photos attached.

http://www.carnicom.com/anomalies1.htm

Charrua
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xx Re: Charrua Chemtrails and other over London
« Reply #24 on: Nov 5th, 2009, 6:57pm »

on Aug 8th, 2008, 07:53am, Essan wrote:
Here's an interesting paper - which includes some photos - that was published in the Journal of Atmospheric Sciences in 1970 and in which contrails are specifically described as persisting and spreading out across the sky. Which shows that, whatever some may claim, it's not a new phenomena and has been know of and studied by science for 40 years.

http://ams.allenpress.com/archive/1520-0469/27/6/pdf/i1520-0469-27-6-937.pdf


Smersh and Essen...

RIGHT ON BABIES! This is exactly what is going on here. It is simply atmospheric conditions that cause these so-called chemtrail effects. I am a former flier. I have seen these chemtrail bleeders since the 1960s (commercial jets have been flying since 1959).

In a moist and slightly unstable upper air cirrus is formed and if the instabiltity and moistness is enough then the cloud (or contrail) forms small showers of ice crystals or sometimes it can be super-cooled water droplets. These fall through the cirrus cloud (or contrail) some 5000 feet in billowing or sweeping banners of cloud. This shower of moisture drops down because it is heavier than the cloud. It is exactly like rain showers but much finer. You will see the same process when we have snow showers in winter.

It is nothing new. It is simple meteorology. Cirrus clouds do this too, not just aircraft contrails.

I have photos of aircraft contrails doing this. I have photos of cirrus 'mare's tails' clouds doing this.

London TMA is the busiest airspace in Europe. Lots of upper airway flights crossing each other going north or east and west.

Contrails only form in the cold moist air found in the upper atmosphere. Jet aircraft can form contrails from about 28,000 feet. Turbo-prop aircraft can form thicker contrails at altitudes as low as maybe 24,000 feet. That is as low as contrails go. Sometimes you may se a distrail, where an aircraft (turboprop usually, like a C-130) dissipates the cloud in a line as it flies through a stable sheet cloud layer.

I say: show me a contrail below 15,000 feet and I will sit up and take notice.

Otherwise this subject is just internet ignorance. And a bit of paranoia, maybe. (Too much skunk.)

I said as much on OpenMinds forum (not the skunk bit). They jumped on me for attacking what is clearly a cherished belief system for true-believers. So I left that site forever. waste of time talking facts to the brainless.

I have spent a lifetime in civil aviation. I am a former pilot too. I have NEVER seen a suspicious contrail. Some really magnificent ones, yes! The whole idea is irational. Our water supplies are almost unprotected if 'they' wanted to feed us 'stuff'. AND... they are drunk by all of us, not just those under the airway systems.

And finally, let me debunk this idea that if you don't live under an actively busy airway you must be seeing chemtrails. These days air traffic control gives commercial, private and military jets routings that might take them well off the airways. Remember, this is all happening at high altitude. Above FL245 ALL AIRSPACE IS CONTROLLED AIRSPACE. That means that ATC can use it as it pleases. Direct routings are often given to planes to shorten their journey times. If the system is busy then all planes rigidly follow their flight plans but when opportunity allows pilots request and are often given direct routings (off the normal 'paths').

I echo Smersh... I'd love to see a chemtrail photo. So far only 'normal' contrails are shown in evidence for this dumb conspiracy. If there really is a conspiracy here then the tree is being hidden by the woods.

God Almighty shocked Why waste time on irrational conspiracies? My country UK has just been voted into the United States of Europe and none of us got to vote on it. We were conned and then the promised vote was stolen away. That surely is a conspiracy hiding in clear view. sad

Crazy internet nonsense IMHO. smiley
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El Charrua
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xx Re: Charrua Chemtrails and other over London
« Reply #25 on: Nov 8th, 2009, 3:12pm »

Hi


This is a world wide issue,There is evidence that this spraying is real.

You Agent Scully , like many others have to open your eyes and look at the sky for a while........

"Yes look up"...

Remember..................

It used to be Blue..


Charrua




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xx Re: Charrua Chemtrails and other over London
« Reply #26 on: Nov 14th, 2009, 05:03am »

Hi El Charrua

I agree with you that you have to look up to see anything in the sky. Hope you don't mind me posting these two pics I took on Nov 13 2009 and a closeup on your thread. These two photos are just a few seconds apart and show a jet and a trail. I really doubt this is atmospheric and I also don't think it's spraying a 'contrail'. See what you think my friend. smiley


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Lawwalk
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xx Re: Charrua Chemtrails and other over London
« Reply #27 on: Nov 14th, 2009, 6:31pm »

Hi Lawwalk

Those are very good shots, I have seen these sort of (Jet Streams)** on many times here over London.

I guess people will have to make up their own minds on this , hope its not too late .
I have noticed here in london people with lots of allergies and viruses.
I can only look up at the sky and wonder , wre all this is coming from.

I also have some more photos that I will post soon.

Thanks Lawwalk.

Charrua
« Last Edit: Nov 14th, 2009, 6:33pm by El Charrua » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Charrua Chemtrails and other over London
« Reply #28 on: Nov 7th, 2010, 12:37am »

What exactly is it that makes you think that the previous two photos are anything other than condensation Trails formed by the jet exhaust? You can clearly see that the trail originates at the engines, not some mystical nozzle. Ive seen no evidence pointing toward anything more sinister than a cloud.


on Aug 1st, 2008, 08:57am, Lawwalk wrote:
How can you tell the difference? Post ONE picture of a Chemtrail,that's all I ask,just one. Surely there's one among all the contrails that you say everyone here is posting...


also not meaning to be an ass about this, but that very argument is backward, it's the same as posting 20 pictures of fish, claiming they aren't fish and are infact sea monsters and then when people say "mate no, they're photos of fish" you tell them to pick one of the fish as a real sea monster so that you can have clear cut difference between the 19 fish and 1 sea monster. They're still fish...
« Last Edit: Nov 7th, 2010, 07:50am by Raziel » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Charrua Chemtrails and other over London
« Reply #29 on: Dec 21st, 2010, 08:12am »

El Charrua

I have looked at your list of chemtrail photos and i can say without question these are normal photos. The first two show and aircraft contrail formed in moist unstable airmas. Notice the extra cloud showing high condensation formation. The thicker contrail happens commonly and is due to (again) an airmass that has a high condensation level causing the cloud to bloat out.

These are all normal variations of the formation of high altitude ice crystal cloud. Aircraft merely seed this moist airmass with particulates that become the neucleus of ice crystals. In the right conditions the ice crystals grow out into wide contrails or normal cirrus clouds.
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