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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Why do UFOs crash?  (Read 28936 times)
Nodnunk
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xx Re: Why do UFOs crash?
« Reply #15 on: Sep 12th, 2009, 3:24pm »

on Sep 12th, 2009, 1:17pm, bonehead wrote:
'cause stuff happens? huh


If the answer really is that ET's are prone to misadventure, then my opinion of their intellect has plunged several notches. They may be just evolved versions of beings who started out like us. But evolved in an unnatural environment where life is cushy and seldom threatened by natural forces. When they go out on safari for R&R, carelessness or an unforeseen event may lead to disaster for them just as it does for us. I would think they would know better given millions (just guessing) of years of documented galactic history.

Okay, suppose they are capable of stupid actions just like we are. A few friends plan a safari without telling anyone where they intend to go. They decide to sightsee and crash on a frontier planet that has no intergalactic communication links. The ET rescue party has no idea where to search. Those that survive the crash are trapped on planet and eventually discovered and captured by the natives. How humbling. The shame is so great that they really don't want to be rescued and soon die of remorse.

Fanciful and simplistic? Probably.
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xx Re: Why do UFOs crash?
« Reply #16 on: Sep 13th, 2009, 06:46am »

....cause stuff happens?

It does, you know
......

Those are amongst the thoughts going through my head every time I'm on a plane approaching the very short runways that are to be found at the island places I go to on holiday. The runways with virtually no run-off space.

ava
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xx Re: Why do UFOs crash?
« Reply #17 on: Sep 15th, 2009, 02:11am »

on Sep 12th, 2009, 3:24pm, Nodnunk wrote:
If the answer really is that ET's are prone to misadventure, then my opinion of their intellect has plunged several notches.


Does this mean that aliens, in order to avoid disappointing us, are supposed to be some sort of super-being that never makes any mistakes? Should we ascribe all accidents and errors to inherent stupidity?

Who says that an alien (or whatever you want to call them) cannot unwittingly slip on a banana peel? It seems that we are either anthropomorphizing them (projecting our human foibles and assumptions onto them) or else putting them on some sort of impossibly sanguine pedestals.

Why can't they be fallible beings who are different from us? That seems a lot more realistic to me.

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« Last Edit: Sep 15th, 2009, 02:12am by bonehead » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Why do UFOs crash?
« Reply #18 on: Sep 15th, 2009, 10:05am »

on Sep 15th, 2009, 02:11am, bonehead wrote:
It seems that we are either anthropomorphizing them (projecting our human foibles and assumptions onto them) or else putting them on some sort of impossibly sanguine pedestals.

Why can't they be fallible beings who are different from us? That seems a lot more realistic to me.



I don't know about "sanguine pedestals", but perhaps veneration is a good descriptor. They apparently have been around long enough to develop impressive technological capabilities as has been reported by witnesses to the many sightings. Granted mortality implies fallibility. But if crashes really have happened, it says something about the organization of the galactic society. If you allow me to speculate and anthropomorphize a little, I suggest it is loose knit with many factions, each with its own agenda. That would account for the many different kinds of vehicles sighted; the diversity of activities; the apparent isolation of crash victims. It would rule out a 1984-like totalitarian centralized galactic government as well as a Borg-like collective. The model that comes to mind is the United States post Civil War western expansion: The Wild West.


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xx Re: Why do UFOs crash?
« Reply #19 on: Sep 15th, 2009, 2:53pm »

I think aliens are thought to be superior for two main reasons:

a) It is assumed that they must have a superior intellect and technological capacity in order to navigate the vast gulfs of the cosmos. I think this may be partially true, because at present, interstellar travel still contains difficulties for which humans have not found definite or tested solutions.

b) Based on the fact that our technological existence is still only a few millenia old, and if you consider our rate of technological advancement to be about average for an intelligent species, and considering the vast ages within which intelligent life could have developed in our own galaxy, then you can infer that there is a strong possibility that the intelligent life we may encounter could be relatively far more advanced by our own standards.



I think I should add that these are two reasons you might deduce aliens should be superior to us. There are probably also a slew of psychological reasons why people would imagine they should be superior to us.
« Last Edit: Sep 15th, 2009, 2:55pm by Tearman » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Why do UFOs crash?
« Reply #20 on: Sep 15th, 2009, 3:16pm »

Does the superior technology that aliens are thought to possess, really demonstrate that they are superior?

Is technology the only measure of a species?

Do abductions demonstrate their superiority or the lack there of?

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xx Re: Why do UFOs crash?
« Reply #21 on: Sep 15th, 2009, 3:18pm »

Good questions Murnut!
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xx Re: Why do UFOs crash?
« Reply #22 on: Sep 15th, 2009, 3:46pm »

Quote:
Does the superior technology that aliens are thought to possess, really demonstrate that they are superior?

When we are considering about their technological superiority which is dependent on their intellectual capacity for the purpose of discussing why they might crash into the Earth, yes.

But, in a more general way, what is the measurement of ultimate superiority? I would suppose it depends on what kind of test is made, or what kind of obstacle must be overcome.
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xx Re: Why do UFOs crash?
« Reply #23 on: Sep 15th, 2009, 5:23pm »

I wonder if "they" crashed or was it staged?

I wonder why "they" hide?

Is this the way we would act?



For all of our technological advances, is human nature any more advanced then say 2000 years ago?
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xx Re: Why do UFOs crash?
« Reply #24 on: Sep 15th, 2009, 8:10pm »

on Sep 15th, 2009, 5:23pm, murnut wrote:
I wonder why "they" hide?

Is this the way we would act?

Hi Mur,

We would probably hide but I suspect we’d also try and destroy anything that prevented us from doing so. I also agree with Bonehead (but don’t tell him!!) in that vastly superior technology should it exist doesn’t necessarily mean it is infallible, infallibility is surely an impossibility regardless of the millions of years spent developing & honing it?

Or as a wise T-Shirt once said, “S*** Happens(paraphrased!! laugh)

Of course the ‘crash’ anomaly is only a problem when trying to force what we (think we) know into the tight, restrictive and occasionally stifling theory we lovingly call the ETH. For example, trans-dimensional entities, ultra-terrestrials, collective externalised cultural and/or sociological influences, even hallucinations and indeed figments of our imaginations don’t ever need to worry about conforming to our limited understanding of the universe, our place in it or how we interact with what we perceive therein…..

on Sep 15th, 2009, 5:23pm, murnut wrote:
For all of our technological advances, is human nature any more advanced then say 2000 years ago?

Not an Oscar Wilde fan then? grin

Quote:
"The only thing that one really knows about human nature is that it changes. Change is the one quality we can predicate of it. The systems that fail are those that rely on the permanency of human nature, and not on its growth and development. The error of Louis XIV was that he thought human nature would always be the same. The result of his error was the French Revolution. It was an admirable result."

Oscar Wilde


Heh, heh, I also disagree with old Oscar but perhaps when we as a species physically evolve then human nature evolves alongside us? The definition of human nature is basically the fundamental dispositions and traits of humans which are pretty much a constant, well, unless some kind of change is forced upon us. I think that such a stressor/trigger could only realistically come about from external physical changes, an evolutionary leap perhaps? The more worrying connotations of this line of thought would be that the last time human nature noticeably evolved would have been right around the time we as a species learned to convey our thoughts and vocally communicate with one another.

Cheers. smiley
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xx Re: Why do UFOs crash?
« Reply #25 on: Sep 16th, 2009, 10:35pm »

Always a pleasure Dr!

I'm not implying that the supposed visitor's technology is infallible....maybe it is...I don't know.

I don't think anyone else really knows either.

It's interesting to speculate though.

I'm just imagining that crashes could be staged...false flag...whatever.

Who knows what the intentions of these supposed visitors are? They have not exactly been the most forthcoming bunch...at least with the general population.

If we can think of various false flag scenario's, so could beings that are apparently more technologically advanced.

Faking a crash, could have been a test to see how we would respond.

Or it could be more sinister

Just a thought.

The only other point I inferred was that technology does not equal advancement.

One could argue that as technology has advanced with humans, our inhumanity has increased.

That is not to say I believe this, but 2000 years ago there was war, slavery, rape, murder and a host of other crimes committed by humans to humans.

Technology has not saved us from this reality today.

Could/Did technology save the visitors?

Or has technology jaded them much them same way as it has jaded us?

I didn't mean to derail this thread....but I always read about how the "visitors" are so much more advanced than us.

I'm not convinced they are.

I'm not convinced that advanced technology equals an advanced culture.

Certainly there are benefits, but also extreme risks.

We can't be sure what effect advanced technology will have in the long run for us....

Sorry to run long here...speaking of technology......does it seem odd to anyone else here that pics and drawing of ufo's has seemed to "update" over the years?

Sort of the same way automobile design has "updated"?

Is it our perception of what we are seeing that has changed, or has it really changed?

Once a society becomes very advanced, wouldn't the rate of updating slow....as compared to us, because we are just ramping up?

Ufology has so many questions and so little answers that make any sense.

I guess that's one of the reasons I'm drawn to it.

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« Last Edit: Sep 16th, 2009, 10:39pm by murnut » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Why do UFOs crash?
« Reply #26 on: Sep 17th, 2009, 12:24pm »

Responding to the above post:

I think things are pretty peaceful now, but I don't know if that has anything to do with technological advancement. I live in California, and I've lived in peace, basically my entire life. Never seen war. Never been the victim of a violent crime, and know only a few who have. Seldom encounter aggressive behavior.

YES! It is strange that UFO's change so dynamically both over time and from one geographic region to the next. Alien spaceships used to be described as having winds and propellers, back when the idea of any flying machine at all was still considered fantastic.

I think that rather than the rate of technological change slowing, it will spiral out of control, beyond the capacity for anyone to keep up, along with cultural development, so that our grand society of the future will be forced to splinter into smaller sub-civilizations.
« Last Edit: Sep 17th, 2009, 12:37pm by Tearman » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Why do UFOs crash?
« Reply #27 on: Sep 17th, 2009, 12:57pm »

on Sep 17th, 2009, 12:24pm, Tearman wrote:
I think things are pretty peaceful now, but I don't know if that has anything to do with technological advancement. I live in California, and I've lived in peace, basically my entire life. Never seen war. Never been the victim of a violent crime, and know only a few who have. Seldom encounter aggressive behavior.


I'm surprised that you think the world is at peace...I can only assume you mean you are personally at peace.


on Sep 17th, 2009, 12:24pm, Tearman wrote:
YES! It is strange that UFO's change so dynamically both over time and from one geographic region to the next. Alien spaceships used to be described as having winds and propellers, back when the idea of any flying machine at all was still considered fantastic.


This is puzzling...almost as if the phenomena reads our minds to determine what we are able to comprehend.

This makes a strong case for the the UTH which is dramatically more complex than ETH.

UTH is also much harder to disclose, because how can govt disclose what they don't understand.

There is also an aspect of religious overtones involving UTH.

Talk about a real mess
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xx Re: Why do UFOs crash?
« Reply #28 on: Sep 17th, 2009, 6:57pm »

Yes, I did mean myself personally. My point was that many places, including my own, have experienced enduring peace, and so I don't think that technological development causes inhumanity.

Quote:
This is puzzling...almost as if the phenomena reads our minds to determine what we are able to comprehend.

This makes a strong case for the the UTH which is dramatically more complex than ETH.

UTH is also much harder to disclose, because how can govt disclose what they don't understand.

There is also an aspect of religious overtones involving UTH.
It could also be evidence in support of the idea that people's imagination fills in a lot of gaps in recollection, maybe even leads people to believe they've seen something they they really haven't seen. I've began to wonder, if aircraft were passing back and forth between different universes, how could anyone possibly know about it? Or more importantly, how could they possibly distinguish that activity from other activity such as teletransportation, invisibility, etc?
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xx Re: Why do UFOs crash?
« Reply #29 on: Sep 18th, 2009, 10:37am »

on Sep 17th, 2009, 12:24pm, Tearman wrote:
YES! It is strange that UFO's change so dynamically both over time and from one geographic region to the next. Alien spaceships used to be described as having winds and propellers, back when the idea of any flying machine at all was still considered fantastic.

I think that rather than the rate of technological change slowing, it will spiral out of control, beyond the capacity for anyone to keep up, along with cultural development, so that our grand society of the future will be forced to splinter into smaller sub-civilizations.


Tearman,

I think what you are talking about here is not an "advance" in technology, but a change in human mindset or collective consciousness. The UFO is acting precisely like quantum "particles" - actually being in-formed by human consciousness.

Note that the "particles" in quantum physics are only potentials. They do not exist in matter that is not observed. The quantum continuum is actually a holographic matrix of wave forms. The 'wave collapse' into particles is only a result of the mindsets of scientists who BELIEVE that the universe is made of tiny bits of matter, i.e. particles.

This is analogous to Victorian era people who could not imagine flying machines without wings, gondolas, propellors and steam engines. Like quantum particles the vehicles were, partially at least, shaped by the belief systems of the observers.

The "problem" here is our desire to objectify the universe. We think that the machines are separate and discrete from us. They are not. They seem to be plastic apparitions having a dynamic interactive relationship with our consciousness.

We try to be "objective" and remove ourselves - the observers - from the equation. But this is an exercise in futility. Our conscious experiences are shaped by our consciousness - the subjective distortion lens through which all human experience must pass. The observer effect, as in quantum physics, seems to be in full force here and the "UFOs" seem to have as much to do with us as they do with anything else.

Anyway, there is my two cents.

Bonehead
« Last Edit: Sep 18th, 2009, 10:42am by bonehead » User IP Logged

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