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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Why do UFOs crash?  (Read 29771 times)
Tearman
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xx Re: Why do UFOs crash?
« Reply #30 on: Sep 18th, 2009, 1:07pm »

Well, quantum properties aren't observed in large objects, except certain effects under extreme conditions. This is the reason so many 'interpretations' such as the 'Participatory Anthropic Principle' have been proposed to explain the dichotomy.

Bruce Schumm Professor of Physics; B.A., Haverford College, 1981; Ph.D., University of Chicago, 1988:
"Quantum mechanics as interpreted by the vast majority of those who understand it provides no support for the idea that the human will can influence the nature of matter."
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bonehead
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xx Re: Why do UFOs crash?
« Reply #31 on: Sep 18th, 2009, 3:45pm »

on Sep 18th, 2009, 1:07pm, Tearman wrote:
Well, quantum properties aren't observed in large objects, except certain effects under extreme conditions. This is the reason so many 'interpretations' such as the 'Participatory Anthropic Principle' have been proposed to explain the dichotomy.


And what makes you think that the UFO conforms to this hypothesis? If the UFO is not material, then it follows that it would not necessarily be subject to the vagaries of matter.

on Sep 18th, 2009, 1:07pm, Tearman wrote:
Bruce Schumm Professor of Physics; B.A., Haverford College, 1981; Ph.D., University of Chicago, 1988:
"Quantum mechanics as interpreted by the vast majority of those who understand it provides no support for the idea that the human will can influence the nature of matter."


Hhhmm, sounds like bad case of materialist denial. There is a lot of that going around in academia. Cultural mindsets are both viral and contagious. Maintaining an open mind is a better bet.

There have been a large number of studies that have shown how human consciousness DOES affect outcomes in material reality. Two books you might want to read are: "The Holographic Universe" by Michael Talbot and "The Field" by Lynne McTaggart. In these two books are statistical experiments that show how the human will DOES influence material outcomes.

And the examples in these books are only the tip of the iceberg, I am sure. There have been many studies on spontaneous healing and the power of prayer.

Just because your guy doesn't believe in it, does not make it so. Look at the experimental data and make up your own mind.

Bonehead

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Tearman
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xx Re: Why do UFOs crash?
« Reply #32 on: Sep 18th, 2009, 8:42pm »

Which experiments do you believe show some kind of influence on matter through pure will alone? I do have an open mind...



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xx Re: Why do UFOs crash?
« Reply #33 on: Sep 23rd, 2009, 12:51am »

on Sep 18th, 2009, 8:42pm, Tearman wrote:
Which experiments do you believe show some kind of influence on matter through pure will alone? I do have an open mind...


Tearman,

Without going through the two books recommended above with a fine tooth comb, It is hard to find the individual case studies. If you read these two books there are several of them. In the meantime I am sure you can find stuff on the materializations of Sai Baba online.

If you are truly interested in this information and the mechanics of quantum physics and consciousness, these two books will be well worth your time and money.

Cheers!!

Bonehead
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xx Re: Why do UFOs crash?
« Reply #34 on: Sep 23rd, 2009, 07:03am »

Here is a Wikipedia article that might be of interest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mind



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xx Re: Why do UFOs crash?
« Reply #35 on: Sep 23rd, 2009, 11:26am »

Hey Nodnunk,

Yeah, this sort of gets at the gist of some theories. But it is a pretty muddled reading and still suffers from the pseudo-scientistic/religious belief that matter is primary and generational. This is a complete misunderstanding of Bohm's explicate and implicate orders and Carl Pribram's theory on the holographic nature of mind.

Notice I said MIND, not brain. The scientific belief in the primacy of the brain and its neuro-chemical mechanistic processes completely misses the idea that mind is a pre-existing and independent entity superimposed on the material brain. Mind exists in the implicate as a sort of software system that acts through the "hardware" system of the material brain.

The fact that mind is primary and, at times, independent of the brain will be obvious to anybody who has had an out of body experience, a near death experience, practiced past life regression or performed "remote viewing".

The backward Cartesian thinking displayed here is epitomized in this obtuse, nearly incomprehensible mish-mash quoted here:


"Upon observation of a superposed external system, Schrödinger evolution at the moment of observation would cause the observed system to become correlated with the brain, yielding a resulting superposition of brain states and so (by psychophysical correlation) a superposition of conscious states. But such a superposition cannot occur, so one of the potential resulting conscious states is somehow selected (presumably by a nondeterministic dynamic principle at the phenomenal level). The result is that (by psychophysical correlation) a definite brain state and a definite state of the observed object are also selected. "

Uh huh. rolleyes

What he is saying is that external reality is a preexisting state and that consciousness is superimposed onto that. In other words, we can still maintain that the world is "objective" even while admitting that it can only be experienced subjectively. Yeah sure. If that helps you to maintain those neo-religious rational materialist, objective/subjective beliefs.

Don't you just love religion? kiss

The fact is, the mechanics and understanding of the quantum aspects of consciousness and reality are not all that complicated and can be explained in plain English. This dense turgid prose is unnecessary if we go back and read the teachings of ancient and current sages. The knowledge of these things has been available throughout human history. The ideas of the holographic universe, the implicit unity of quantum physics and the primacy of mind in shaping reality comport very closely with the teachings of Buddhism, the Kabbalah and Christian Gnosticism. They are all saying the same things, if in slightly different language.

In other words: this modern, up to date scientific "discovery" is heavily corroborated by ancient knowledge that has been around throughout human history. To quote that great cultural sage, Homer Simpson, "D'OH! shocked

But if you want to avoid all of that stuff, you can get pretty much the same information from the books listed above. And you can actually comprehend them without bending your brain too much. wink

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xx Re: Why do UFOs crash?
« Reply #36 on: Sep 23rd, 2009, 4:59pm »

No, no, no….you just don’t understand. We are really advanced. We can cross the gulfs of interstellar space in a quantum bubble. Zip through your solar system like some sort drunken German on the Autoban (terrestrial metaphor). But we just can’t quite quite figure out the orbital mechanics and subsequent atmospheric re-entry of actually visiting..much less landing.

But, hey… we’re working on it.

Puny earthlings.

Marvin
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xx Re: Why do UFOs crash?
« Reply #37 on: Sep 23rd, 2009, 5:52pm »

on Sep 23rd, 2009, 11:26am, bonehead wrote:


Notice I said MIND, not brain. The scientific belief in the primacy of the brain and its neuro-chemical mechanistic processes completely misses the idea that mind is a pre-existing and independent entity superimposed on the material brain. Mind exists in the implicate as a sort of software system that acts through the "hardware" system of the material brain.



If the organ in the head (the brain) is analogous to hardware and "the mind" is analogous to software, what hypotheses may be drawn from this model?

1. The mind and brain are synergistic.
2. The mind, as software, has capabilities which cannot be fully realized in all brains.
3. The physical organization and structure of the material brain limits what particular parts of the mind software can be implemented.

Thus the mind is general purpose and can be installed into any brain: human or animal or any biological entity with the appropriate organ. As stated above, the resulting capabilities of the mind+brain combination are limited only by the architecture of the particular brain.

The architecture of the brain can be modified to allow more of the mind's capability to reveal itself. This may be called learning.

So called "mind altering drugs" alter the chemistry of the brain. The resulting modifications to the brain can allow heretofore unused parts of the mind to be implemented. The result may be seen as enhanced, degraded, or new but transitory capabilities.

Physical damage to the brain due to trauma or disease can alter the brain permanently. Consequently, the the mind+brain combination is also altered. Existing capabilities may be lost but sometimes new ones gained.

Conclusions: The same mind is available to all species. The individual brain architecture and chemical makeup limit how much of the mind's capability is realized in any individual. The brain may be physically altered to add to or subtract from the intrinsic mind+brain capability.

An interesting aside: The British neurologist Oliver Sacks has written several books describing case studies of people with neurological disorders.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Sacks

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xx Re: Why do UFOs crash?
« Reply #38 on: Sep 24th, 2009, 01:33am »

on Sep 23rd, 2009, 5:52pm, Nodnunk wrote:
Physical damage to the brain due to trauma or disease can alter the brain permanently. Consequently, the the mind+brain combination is also altered. Existing capabilities may be lost but sometimes new ones gained.

Conclusions: The same mind is available to all species. The individual brain architecture and chemical makeup limit how much of the mind's capability is realized in any individual. The brain may be physically altered to add to or subtract from the intrinsic mind+brain capability.

An interesting aside: The British neurologist Oliver Sacks has written several books describing case studies of people with neurological disorders.



Nodnunk,

Thanks for this posting. The brain is an interesting subject. One of my favorite anecdotes about the brain comes from the book "The Field" as referenced above. On pg. 86 it mentions a certain biologist named Paul Pietsch who questioned Carl Pribram's theory of the holographic nature of the brain.

He performed experiments on salamanders in order to debunk Pribram's theory that memory was distributed throughout the brain. In successive experiments Pietsch removed, sliced and diced and eventually ground up the salamander brains in a sausage grinder. No matter how badly he mutilated the brains, once he returned them to the animal, the animal began to function normally again.

Pietsch was converted from skeptic to believer in Pribram's theory.

Bonehead
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xx Re: Why do UFOs crash?
« Reply #39 on: Sep 25th, 2009, 11:53am »

Bonehead,

....No matter how badly he mutilated the brains, once he returned them to the animal, the animal began to function normally again. ...

That I do find extraordinarily difficult to accept. What is the original reference again ?

ava
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xx Re: Why do UFOs crash?
« Reply #40 on: Nov 24th, 2009, 7:38pm »

I read somewhere about an observer who watched a long string of objects cross between the earth and the sun.
Perhaps we are just off some kind of shipping lane, and the crashes little more than ship wrecks. Like a space born Titanic they cruise along on auto pilot with the "GPS" guiding the trip and suddenly find themselves running aground so to speak.
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xx Re: Why do UFOs crash?
« Reply #41 on: Nov 24th, 2009, 8:48pm »

That's an interesting theory, skizicks, but have you considered the vastness of space? The immensity of our galaxy, much less our own solar system?

Piloting a craft through a "shipping lane" as narrow (I use the term loosely, on an astronomical scale) as the space between our planet and the sun would be virtual suicide.

If the pilot of the craft felt it necessary to use our system as a "slingshot", wouldn't Jupiter or Saturn's orbits make much more favorable routes, given their relatively safe distance from the sun and other planets?

We're talking about a needle (Earth) in a 100,000 light year diameter haystack.
They're not here by accident.
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xx Re: Why do UFOs crash?
« Reply #42 on: Nov 27th, 2009, 3:11pm »

On a lighter note, I once saw a Far Side cartoon depicting a crashed UFO. One of the aliens was berating the other because he crashed the UFO due to a bee getting inside the cockpit.
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xx Re: Why do UFOs crash?
« Reply #43 on: Nov 28th, 2009, 3:41pm »

As small as this rock is, with all its roads, flat fields, and open spaces there have been over a million aircraft crashes in the US alone. Yet far less than a million have been found and identified.
If one assumes that space travel has some kind of recognized rules of the road then yes there would be traffic lanes for lack of a better term. They would be in place to make finding those in trouble easier. They would also act to guide travelers away from known dangers and along routes proven safer.
What happens when a plane goes missing? Those in charge of air traffic go looking for it. How do they know where to look? They look along the path the plane was to take, and a reasonable distance to the sides. A number of craft would fly along and to the side of the path looking for the lost craft.
What if part of the path over flew a dangerous area? Any search would use smaller more manuverable craft or drones to search that area.
IF, wreckage is seen a party may be sent in on foot, or a drone flown close to see if it is the missing craft.
Why wouldn't an ET species do the same?
To think that someone on any kind of scientific or government mission would set out and not leave behind some kind of plan as to where they were going and what route they would take makes no sense.
Even if you set out on a family trip you tell someone where you are going and have the neighbor watch the house. And even then those who care have the chance of following you, calling those in charge along the routes you may have taken, or putting you on a milk carton to find you.
Many of the clusters of sightings may be such search parties.
And just as everyone doesn't drive a Volvo, maybe not ervery ET drives a Cosmo B12 Saucer with the sport package.
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xx Re: Why do UFOs crash?
« Reply #44 on: Nov 29th, 2009, 10:44am »

.... there have been over a million aircraft crashes in the US alone. Yet far less than a million have been found and identified. ...

Skizicks,

That equates to 54 a day for the last 50 year. With that kind of safety record no one would ever get on a plane. Perhaps you could re-check you source.


...And just as everyone doesn't drive a Volvo, maybe not ervery ET drives a Cosmo B12 Saucer with the sport package.

But most aspire to owning one.

ava
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