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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Finding the 1947 UFO Crash at San Augustine,N.M  (Read 4084 times)
meteorlima
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xx Finding the 1947 UFO Crash at San Augustine,N.M
« Thread started on: Jul 2nd, 2013, 7:03pm »

www.ufocrashbook.com...UFO Researcher Art Campbell rediscovers July 1947 UFO Crash finds many artifacts....Analysis Report on Metal Samples from the 1947 UFO Crash on the Plains of San Augustine,New Mexico.....www.ufocrashbook.com/pdfs/Analysis%20Report%20on%20Metal%20Samples.pdf...Analysis Report Author Steve Colbern...www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-colbern/20/80/6b7
« Last Edit: Jul 2nd, 2013, 9:48pm by meteorlima » User IP Logged

Whisperstream
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xx Re: Finding the 1947 UFO Crash at San Augustine,N.
« Reply #1 on: Jul 8th, 2013, 08:38am »

it looks like conventional aluminum alloy used on aircraft. Typically, structural components for airplanes are coated with a zinc chromate primer to protect against oxidation. The primer varies in color from yellow-green to olive or brownish green. The darker shades were more commonly used during the 1940s and 1950s than they are today, and the exact chemical composition varies.

The analysis report was very disappointing. There are few decent pictures of the artifacts, but those included certainly look like common terrestrial materials. The report contains a lot of data without providing any useful information, and it looks as if it was written by someone who is completely ignorant of aircraft construction techniques, materials, or terrestrial weathering effects on crash debris. I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that this is debris from a 1940s vintage airplane crash, perhaps resulting from a training flight out of Roswell AAF. Not to nitpick, but he author also loses credibility by misspelling the name of the Plains of San Agustin.
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xx Re: Finding the 1947 UFO Crash at San Augustine,N.
« Reply #2 on: Jul 8th, 2013, 11:17am »

on Jul 8th, 2013, 08:38am, Whisperstream wrote:
it looks like conventional aluminum alloy used on aircraft. Typically, structural components for airplanes are coated with a zinc chromate primer to protect against oxidation. The primer varies in color from yellow-green to olive or brownish green. The darker shades were more commonly used during the 1940s and 1950s than they are today, and the exact chemical composition varies.

The analysis report was very disappointing. There are few decent pictures of the artifacts, but those included certainly look like common terrestrial materials. The report contains a lot of data without providing any useful information, and it looks as if it was written by someone who is completely ignorant of aircraft construction techniques, materials, or terrestrial weathering effects on crash debris. I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that this is debris from a 1940s vintage airplane crash, perhaps resulting from a training flight out of Roswell AAF. Not to nitpick, but he author also loses credibility by misspelling the name of the Plains of San Agustin.
If you have a problem with the report I suggest you contact Steve Colbern who authored the report, I'am only the messenger.Here is his e-mail address...s_colbern@yahoo.com... I'am sure he will address any issues you may have.
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xx Re: Finding the 1947 UFO Crash at San Augustine,N.
« Reply #3 on: Jul 8th, 2013, 1:17pm »

I wasn't criticizing you.

The report, however, is just the tip of the iceberg. I went to the web site that hosts the analysis report and was horrified to see that Art Campbell is trying to pass off very conventional crash debris as something extraterrestrial. I'm surprised that he hasn't been laughed out of UFOlogy entirely.

Photos of his artifacts show fragments of ordinary aluminum alloy sheet and structural members, metallic honeycomb, and melted plastic. There seemed to be clear evidence of conventional manufacturing and assembly techniques.

I have found similar debris at dozens of airplane crash sites, and I expect the material composition would be very much the same. Campbell seemed very excited about the honeycomb material, but this is commonly used for lightweight aircraft structures (fuselage panels, airfoils, etc.) as well as in impact-attenuating structures for recoverable balloon capsules.
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xx Re: Finding the 1947 UFO Crash at San Augustine,N.
« Reply #4 on: Aug 3rd, 2013, 8:31pm »

From the website of API, Aerial Phenomenon Investigations:


UFO Investigations & Expeditions

The 1947 San Agustin Mystery:

How physical evidence, a detailed investigative process, and good detective work solved case …

On March 8, 2013, API received a package from a witness in New Mexico containing material samples from an alleged disk of extraterrestrial origin that crashed near Horse Springs, NM, on July, 2, 1947. Soon after, another witness, who originally discovered the crash site in the 1990’s, forwarded API additional documents regarding the crash, including topographic maps of the alleged crash site; and a photo of a strange symbol sketched on an aluminum beam that was also found at the site of the alleged crash. After completing an exhaustive investigation of the so-called Plains of San Agustin UFO Crash, we found no physical proof, beyond a reasonable doubt, that a craft of extraterrestrial origin crashed at Horse Springs, NM – but rather, we found evidence that a North American AT-6 Texan did.

The full article, which I recommend checking out for several reasons, may be viewed at:

http://aerial-phenomenon.org/new-mexico-expedition/
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xx Re: Finding the 1947 UFO Crash at San Augustine,N.
« Reply #5 on: Aug 3rd, 2013, 8:45pm »

Whisper,

Could you touch on your experience with A/C crashes? Just to satisfy the courious.
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xx Re: Finding the 1947 UFO Crash at San Augustine,N.
« Reply #6 on: Aug 3rd, 2013, 11:09pm »

on Aug 3rd, 2013, 8:31pm, jjflash wrote:
From the website of API, Aerial Phenomenon Investigations:


UFO Investigations & Expeditions

The 1947 San Agustin Mystery:

How physical evidence, a detailed investigative process, and good detective work solved case …

On March 8, 2013, API received a package from a witness in New Mexico containing material samples from an alleged disk of extraterrestrial origin that crashed near Horse Springs, NM, on July, 2, 1947. Soon after, another witness, who originally discovered the crash site in the 1990’s, forwarded API additional documents regarding the crash, including topographic maps of the alleged crash site; and a photo of a strange symbol sketched on an aluminum beam that was also found at the site of the alleged crash. After completing an exhaustive investigation of the so-called Plains of San Agustin UFO Crash, we found no physical proof, beyond a reasonable doubt, that a craft of extraterrestrial origin crashed at Horse Springs, NM – but rather, we found evidence that a North American AT-6 Texan did.

The full article, which I recommend checking out for several reasons, may be viewed at:

http://aerial-phenomenon.org/new-mexico-expedition/
Since writing this tripe Antonio Paris has been removed from his position at MUFON.
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xx Re: Finding the 1947 UFO Crash at San Augustine,N.
« Reply #7 on: Aug 4th, 2013, 2:16pm »

on Aug 3rd, 2013, 11:09pm, meteorlima wrote:
Since writing this tripe Antonio Paris has been removed from his position at MUFON.


I have a couple of issues with your statement, meteorlima, that I would please like to address.

First, would you please provide a source and verifiable documentation for your assertion that Mr. Paris "has been removed from his position at MUFON"? I have considerable reasons to believe otherwise, including a July 28 article at the website of the National Capital Area Skeptics which states, "Antonio is also a member of the Washington Academy of Sciences, the National Capital Astronomers, and is a certified STAR Team Field Investigator, Dive Team member, and Assistant State Director for MUFON."

Secondly, would you care to more directly address exactly what you disagree with concerning the API investigation of the alleged 1947 UFO crash linked? It looks like a pretty solid investigation and report to me, and, if not, I would indeed like to know why. Please be specific.
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xx Re: Finding the 1947 UFO Crash at San Augustine,N.
« Reply #8 on: Aug 4th, 2013, 3:02pm »

James Carrion had the same problem with people suspecting him because of having workd with NSA but he really organized their computer filing system and made them effective..Sadly he left.

This gentleman also brings a lot of invaluable talent
and even worked at Booze Allen also with NSA. 5 years..no noobe.
Having someone that really knows how government thinks is a real plus..and adds skills to move ufology into the 21st century..from the quackery and genuine coverups quickly sold to us.
Let us remember we have other foreign intelligence agencies not merely mining but planting ...as well..
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/antonio-paris/62/a40/a15
« Last Edit: Aug 4th, 2013, 3:07pm by Equalizer » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Finding the 1947 UFO Crash at San Augustine,N.
« Reply #9 on: Aug 4th, 2013, 3:46pm »

More on Antonio Paris and API:

on Jun 19th, 2013, 5:01pm, jjflash wrote:
API sets sights on shaping future of ufology

Orlando Paranormal Examiner

June 19, 2013

The Aerial Phenomenon Investigations Team is making a bid to take research of unidentified flying objects to another - more credible – level. Popularly known as API, the Md.-based organization is poised to conduct and publish investigations, host public events and, according to founder and director Antonio Paris, apply some science to the subject of UFOs. Mr. Paris agreed to field some questions from 'Orlando Paranormal Examiner', and his emailed statements were received today.

According to his bio on Amazon, Paris is a senior intelligence analyst for the defense consulting firm of Booz Allen Hamilton. He holds a Bachelor of Science in Computer Information Systems, a Master's of Science in Space Studies and, according to the API website, is a former U.S. counterintelligence officer.

Asked about his experience in counterintelligence, Paris stated that most of the work he did remains classified. “In a nutshell, however,” he continued, “I was assigned as a Special Agent to the Counterintelligence Field Activity (CIFA), Dept. of Defense. CIFA was a classified agency that was merged with DIA [Department of Intelligence] in 2008. While at CIFA, I was assigned as the lead agent of the Cold Case Squad. We investigated cold-war era espionage cases in which the suspected soviet spy was never found and/or apprehended. I also investigated espionage cases that had a link to terrorism, theft of U.S. technologies, and double agent penetrations.”

Paris explained he has always been interested in UFOs. “As a child I was a huge fan of science fiction, Star Wars, Star Trek, etc., and always wondered about the possibility of extraterrestrial life. While in grad school studying planetary science and astrobiology, I thought it would be a cool idea to merge my two trades: investigations plus space science equals UFO investigator. Nevertheless, I am a bit skeptical that flying saucers are running amok and abducting humans for experimentation.”

Paris authored the book, 'Aerial Phenomena: Reviving Ufology for the 21st Century', which offers readers insight into the API investigative process, as well as summaries and analyses of investigations. More can be learned about API cases and investigations by viewing their website, podcasts in which team members have participated and an API video published on YouTube.

Describing investigations and data collection, Paris explained, “API is not like MUFON (although I am a certified MUFON STAR Team Investigator). At API, we triage our cases carefully to ensure they fall within the scope of API's mission: nuts and bolts investigations.”

Set to soon launch a science-only website, API is focusing upon motivating the next generation of young scientists. “My background is in space science and planetary science,” Paris told 'Orlando Paranormal Examiner'. “I want to use my education to encourage young adults to embrace science. Therefore, I am setting up an organization to encourage young kids, and adults, to learn about our solar system, the universe, and the processes involved in planet formations. This is a strictly science project and will have nothing to do with UFOs.”

About UFOs, Paris explained that the goal of API is to revive ufology. “The subject has been intoxicated with conspiracy theories, hoaxes, junk science, etc. Our goal is to drain the swamp of all this garbage and bring the science back to the subject.”


More importantly concerning the topic of the specific NM alleged UFO crash, however, would be that API seemed to have pretty solidly identified the origin of the rumor: a plane crash.
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xx Re: Finding the 1947 UFO Crash at San Augustine,N.
« Reply #10 on: Aug 4th, 2013, 3:56pm »

Thanks again JJ I like the Drain the swamp analogy in the AP article.
« Last Edit: Aug 4th, 2013, 3:57pm by Equalizer » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Finding the 1947 UFO Crash at San Augustine,N.
« Reply #11 on: Aug 4th, 2013, 5:51pm »

Last I checked, as of today, I am still a MUFON Star Team Investigator and ASD for Maryland.

on Aug 3rd, 2013, 11:09pm, meteorlima wrote:
Since writing this tripe Antonio Paris has been removed from his position at MUFON.
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xx Re: Finding the 1947 UFO Crash at San Augustine,N.
« Reply #12 on: Aug 4th, 2013, 6:13pm »

on Aug 4th, 2013, 5:51pm, aerialphenomena wrote:
Last I checked, as of today, I am still a MUFON Star Team Investigator and ASD for Maryland.




Welcome Aboard AP! An honor to have you with us..and I beat JJ and the mods to it ...which is rare as he is always on top of these things..We look forward to reading more of your work !
I read your response to one character about less than 2 years at a radio blog...he never responded..
http://pangradio.com/antonio-paris-director-of-the-aerial-phenomenon-investigations-team-mar-4-9pm-est-6pm-pst/
anyway welcome..we are a small motley crew with a lot of heart..

To a bright future in Ufology and Blurology and all things pertinent smiley
Cheers
Sys

« Last Edit: Aug 4th, 2013, 6:19pm by Equalizer » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Finding the 1947 UFO Crash at San Augustine,N.
« Reply #13 on: Aug 4th, 2013, 8:14pm »

Hat tips around, and welcome, aerialphenomena. Good to 'see' you hear.

Now that we have clarified the position of Antonio Paris within MUFON, we could turn our attention back to the report created by API on the St. Agustin alleged UFO crash. It would seem that API presented solid evidence that both the rumor and the debris originated from the crash of an AT-6 Texan airplane. We might also note that Whisperstream suggested similar might be a likely explanation in an earlier post in this thread.
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GREAT SPIRITS ALWAYS ENCOUNTER THE MOST VIOLENT OPPOSITION FROM MEDIOCRE MINDS E=MC2


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xx Re: Finding the 1947 UFO Crash at San Augustine,N.
« Reply #14 on: Aug 4th, 2013, 8:20pm »

HEY AP (TONI),
YEAH SYS BEAT US TO THE PUNCH...BUT... CERTAINLY REVEALS HOW WELCOMING THE CASEBOOK FAMILY IS...
I'M SURE MANY ( AS WELL AS MYSELF) WILL LOOK FOWARD TO YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS...

SHALOM...ZETAR
« Last Edit: Aug 4th, 2013, 8:21pm by ZETAR » User IP Logged

GREAT SPIRITS ALWAYS ENCOUNTER THE MOST VIOLENT OPPOSITION FROM MEDIOCRE MINDS E=MC2
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