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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Obama Appoints UFO Disclosure Advocate?  (Read 9213 times)
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xx Re: Obama Appoints UFO Disclosure Advocate?
« Reply #60 on: Jul 29th, 2014, 11:09pm »

OLDTIMER,

STRONG ARMING MEMBERS TO CONTINUALLY PERPETUATE CONFRONTATIONS IS ACTUALLY >>>NOT<<< THE BEST WAY TO DISCUSS TOPICS...YOUR AGE AND EXPERIENCE SHOULD'VE BEEFED UP YOUR METAL...IN SPITE OF MY COMMENT URGING YOU TO AGREE TO DISAGREE...NO ONE WANTS YOU NOT TO POST...BUT CERTAINLY ONE OFTEN CHOOSES TO AVOID CONTINUAL CONFRONTAION...YOU ARE A MODERATOR...TIS SOMETHING WHICH I SHOULD NOT HAVE TO ADDRESS IN LIEU OF SUCH EXPERIENCE...MANY FORUMS EVOLVE TO A FREE FOR ALL...CASEBOOK HAS SET AS SPECIFIC STANDARDS WE MODS FOLLOW/SUBSCRIBE TO/ENFORCE...HAVING SAID THE AFOREMENTIONED AND MOST CERTAINLY REQUEST YOUR CONSIDERATION...PLEASE CONTINUE ACCORDINGLY...

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xx Re: Obama Appoints UFO Disclosure Advocate?
« Reply #61 on: Jul 29th, 2014, 11:20pm »

on Jul 29th, 2014, 10:31pm, Oldtimer wrote:
And yet you just have to stick your nose under the tent yet again. Perhaps it is best I just don't post here again which is after all what jjflash wants.


Lets take JJ's post's and you can tell me where you have an issue. Post 1 on this thread.

JJFlash QUOTE: Maybe some UFO-related stuff has something to do with an extraterrestrial presence. I don't know, but the following points stand one way or the other, and I wish they would receive more attention within the UFO community.

A primary problem with formal official explanations related to UFOs is that a certain amount of the classified material, if declassified, would prove to compromise ongoing operations while having nothing to do with an ET presence. A percentage of classified operations, whatever that percentage would be, would have nothing whatsoever to do with inexplicable aerial phenomena, much less aliens, but would prove to be quite human-instigated intelligence operations. Such circumstances cannot be declassified or even selectively discussed without damaging security of those and related operations.

If the powers that be were to officially acknowledge and disclose any cases that they could honestly categorize as unidentified or truly unknown phenomena, by doing so they would, by default, identify cases of which they were covertly responsible. Like, if the DoD laid all their UFO cards on the table and disclosed they had no idea what happened at Rendelsham or whatever, they would in effect be saying they were responsible for Stephensville (if they refused to declassify Stephensville, for instance).

It's not going to happen, people. There is no advantage whatsoever to an intelligence agency informing its adversaries of what it has and has not been doing. Forget about it.

My larger point, though, is that I would appreciate such dynamics getting their share of attention, as compared to activists pretending they can't even think of such circumstances. It's arguably both ignorant and disingenuous.


I don't see a problem here. He's simply stating his opinion.

OLDTIMER, HERE IS YOUR RESPONSE TO HIS POST.

Oldtimer QUOTE:So what you are saying is the U.S. Government is competent enough to run the classified programs but not competent enough to release what they know about any actual UFOs without compromising those classified programs. An interesting dichotomy you have going on there. One would think that those responsible for "Black Projects" and Advanced Avionics Projects would be capable of separating their projects from any reports of actual UFO reports but then maybe they are not capable of doing their jobs. Your excuses are not logical in a security based protocol of modern day standards. Deniability can be maintained while revealing unconnected case revelations by competent personnel. A blanket denial in the face of an ever increasing foreign government admission and/or document disclosure is neither a rational or logical response.

Time will tell if the U.S. Government can maintain their blanket denials for much longer. I say they cannot.


Nothing wrong with your reply although JJ thinks you've taken him out of context when he posts this:

JJFlash QUOTE: No, that is not what I said.

HERE IS JJ'S NEXT POST:

JJFLash QUOTERight. Thank you. It's not a matter of competence or incompetence, or ethical transparency vs. tyrannical secrecy. It's not even a matter of chicken or the egg... which came first, UFOs or the IC manufacture thereof? It doesn't matter from a perspective of certain purposes are served and there is no reason whatsoever to disclose what has been accomplished in the process. Not gonna happen.

To what ends? To win the support of a constituency that MUFON currently reports to include a worldwide 3,000 members?

You are correct, G, it should be understandable, and whether or not we agree. There is not the public interest for politicians to throw their hats in the UFO ring, and the only times intel officials show their hands is when they are intending to use the cards as agents of deception. Telling people things simply because they want to know does not take place, and informing the enemy in the process is not now, never has been and never will be up for consideration.

Project Palladium, aka a false flag UFO operation, is a specific example of such circumstances as GForce suggested:

http://ufotrail.blogspot.com/2013/09/one-of-those-posts-about-validated.html

There is a point in which my intelligence is insulted by the likes of Greer and Bassett, and their incessant harping and fundraising for UFO disclosure. The entire concept is flawed and perpetrated on a demographic who understandably deeply want to know more, but are often times taken advantage of.


AGAIN I SEE NO ATTACK HERE MEARLY COMMENTS WHERE HE IS RESPONDING TO SOMETHING I SAID. THEN HE POSTED THIS.

JJFlash QUOTE: By the way, I posted a bit about this in the Mirage Men thread, but in the event any of you missed it but might be interested, I'd highly recommend giving the recent remarks of James Carrion some consideration:

http://ufotrail.blogspot.com/2014/07/james-carrion-to-podcasters-deception.html

He's a former intel analyst, former director of MUFON and recently published a book, 'The Rosetta Deception', in which he explores at length strategic deception operations which, in the process, created inaccurate public perceptions of UFOs during 1946 and 1947. He talks a lot about deception, and some might find his comments and work of interest.


AGAIN PERSONAL OPINION NOTHING PERSONAL. HERE IS THE FOLLOWING POST BY JJ.

JJFlash QUOTE: A few points, please:

- My name is not Jake.

- I am Jack Brewer. I maintain the blog 'The UFO Trail' and I write 'Orlando Paranormal Examiner' linked in my profile signature.

- Oldtimer, it is not a matter of whether or not I believe you (at least not to me). I think there are basically three kinds of information:

One, that which has been verified as accurate,

Two, that which has been conclusively demonstrated to be false and can be discarded, and

Three, that which requires suspension of judgment pending further (and competent) investigation.

It's not about belief to me. People who perceive themselves to be prophets, experiencers, clairvoyants, abductees - you name it - make statements all the time... and those statements frequently directly contradict one another. I have little interest in such matters as compared to awaiting verifiable information.

- I agree with drwu23 re the so-called disclosure movement. The activists and exopolitics movement oversimplify the situation, which is actually much more complex than a platform of 'Aliens are here. The White House knows. Demand they tell us.' It insults my intelligence. It also concerns me in that people are being exploited to the advantage of those responsible for fear mongering and perpetuating mysteries.

Thanks.


HERE HE SIMPLY IS SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT IMO AND I EVEN SEE THE POST SIGNED WITH A THANKS. THAT IS HIS COMMENTS THROUGH 3 OF THE FOUR PAGES.
HERE IS THE ONLY POST WHERE HE QUESTIONS YOUR RESEARCH.

JJFlash QUOTE: I have my doubts as to the extents you have viewed and/or read the materials you are suggesting others read. I also have some doubts about your sincerity of actually expecting those materials to be reviewed, considering that in some cases you have posted hours and hours of video in a single post - on multiple occasions.

Nonetheless, please allow me to direct your attention to page 10 of the linked document, a section titled, 'Quality of Information Check'. It states, in part:

"Weighing the validity of sources is a key
feature of any critical thinking. Moreover,
establishing how much confidence
one puts in analytic judgments should
ultimately rest on how accurate and
reliable the information base is. Hence,
checking the quality of information used
in intelligence analysis is an ongoing,
continuous process. Having multiple
sources on an issue is not a substitute
for having good information that has
been thoroughly examined."

Page 11 continues:

An analyst or a team might begin
a quality of information check by
developing a database in which
information is stored according to source
type and date, with additional notations
indicating strengths or weaknesses in
those sources...

• Review systematically all sources for
accuracy.

• Identify information sources that appear
most critical or compelling.

..................................................

Do you sincerely expect me and others to interpret that is what you are doing?

Standards of evidence is square one. If we cannot agree on the weight - or lack thereof - that should be assigned to credulous videos as compared to authenticated documents and similar such types of evidence recognized as admissible by the professional research community, we are extremely unlikely to agree on any other points.

By the way, to the best of my knowledge, Blue Beam is only a theory - if not a hoax. I am unaware of any authenticated docs that so much as verify the existence of a project of that name, much less for the purposes that are often dubiously attributed to the alleged operation. If I am incorrect on that point, I would be more than willing to retract my assertion in the face of proper evidence - as recognized by the professional research community.


WHILE JJ QUESTIONS YOUR SINCERITY AND RESEARCH AND GIVES HIS OPINION ON STANDARDS OF EVIDENCE. I DON'T CONSIDER IT A PERSONAL ATTACK. I'LL SEE WHAT THE OTHER MODS SAY!




« Last Edit: Jul 29th, 2014, 11:23pm by GForce » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Obama Appoints UFO Disclosure Advocate?
« Reply #62 on: Jul 30th, 2014, 09:41am »

As an observation for someone who has been following these posts and others by OT I believe that jjflash has been well within the board rules regarding his posts and questions.
If anyone has been some what rude it has been me and my apologies for that.
My 'frustration' is due to the lack of clear responses to questions and the assertion of some alien conspiracy theories as fact by using nothing more than web links to fringe sites for the most part. Most of us here are well read and have seen and read these things before in the past.

This was how they were originally presented. Since then OT now claims he never posted 'anything as fact' and we misinterpreted his intention but he just presented possibilities for us to explore...and 'analyze'. That was not how they (nor his own position) were presented at first and reading the early posts will show that imo.

Having said that many people come to paranormal/ufo forums with belief systems that they claim to be the 'truth' or have insight in to whatever topic is being explored.
The problem always starts when people question those statements as 'truth'. The person making the claims will usually take offense and the fireworks start.

It's impossible to know what the truth is in these cases just like with someone like 'Bob Lazar' (an example only...) but I do agree on one thing; each person has to look at what's presented do their own 'analysis' and decide for themselves. The problem is that the ufo circus is so full of marginal people and fringe ideas that the whole thing has been muddied up to the point of obscurity.

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xx Re: Obama Appoints UFO Disclosure Advocate?
« Reply #63 on: Jul 30th, 2014, 10:16am »

on Jul 30th, 2014, 09:41am, drwu23 wrote:
As an observation for someone who has been following these posts and others by OT I believe that jjflash has been well within the board rules regarding his posts and questions.
If anyone has been some what rude it has been me and my apologies for that.
My 'frustration' is due to the lack of clear responses to questions and the assertion of some alien conspiracy theories as fact by using nothing more than web links to fringe sites for the most part. Most of us here are well read and have seen and read these things before in the past.

This was how they were originally presented. Since then OT now claims he never posted 'anything as fact' and we misinterpreted his intention but he just presented possibilities for us to explore...and 'analyze'. That was not how they (nor his own position) were presented at first and reading the early posts will show that imo.

Having said that many people come to paranormal/ufo forums with belief systems that they claim to be the 'truth' or have insight in to whatever topic is being explored.
The problem always starts when people question those statements as 'truth'. The person making the claims will usually take offense and the fireworks start.

It's impossible to know what the truth is in these cases just like with someone like 'Bob Lazar' (an example only...) but I do agree on one thing; each person has to look at what's presented do their own 'analysis' and decide for themselves. The problem is that the ufo circus is so full of marginal people and fringe ideas that the whole thing has been muddied up to the point of obscurity.



I think we're all here to discuss...debate the topics. Most of us have formed opinions but at the crux of the matter we want to hear from others with a different opinion. That stirs debate. If we all agreed or knew everything then they'd be no reason to be here.

I can appreciate Oldtimer because he does provoke thought. What I hope he comes to realize is that many of us don't have the hours to study and research videos. Written material is easier to digest and doesn't cover a variety of subjects like many videos do. They tend to be specific towards a topic. Afterwards what we do absorb from a post or material only makes us want to discuss it more.
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xx Re: Obama Appoints UFO Disclosure Advocate?
« Reply #64 on: Aug 1st, 2014, 5:25pm »

on Jul 30th, 2014, 10:16am, GForce wrote:
I think we're all here to discuss...debate the topics. Most of us have formed opinions but at the crux of the matter we want to hear from others with a different opinion. That stirs debate. If we all agreed or knew everything then they'd be no reason to be here.

I can appreciate Oldtimer because he does provoke thought. What I hope he comes to realize is that many of us don't have the hours to study and research videos. Written material is easier to digest and doesn't cover a variety of subjects like many videos do. They tend to be specific towards a topic. Afterwards what we do absorb from a post or material only makes us want to discuss it more.


I agree with you GForce. The problem was that OT came here with an agenda and a belief system and when it was questioned he became arrogant to the point that he clearly said we didn't know anything and we weren't listening to him. Not much discussion there. Then he backed off and claimed we were misinterpreting his position.
At least that's how it seemed to me.
undecided
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xx Re: Obama Appoints UFO Disclosure Advocate?
« Reply #65 on: Aug 1st, 2014, 5:56pm »

Dang!!
I was just about to Pop some Cornpopping seeds.
Ho humm.
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xx Re: Obama Appoints UFO Disclosure Advocate?
« Reply #66 on: Oct 1st, 2014, 04:47am »

I for one miss Oldtimer,I do wish he would come back. cry
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xx Re: Obama Appoints UFO Disclosure Advocate?
« Reply #67 on: Oct 1st, 2014, 9:10pm »

I don't think Jflash was rude or anything like that,the other member started ok,but like Drwu23 said, it's clear to us that when his belief system was questioned, he got angry, switched to beserk mode and left...

Not the first time we see this kind of behaviour around here

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xx Re: Obama Appoints UFO Disclosure Advocate?
« Reply #68 on: Jan 23rd, 2016, 8:23pm »

Possibly Important UFO Development

Saturday, January 23, 2016

In a couple recent interviews I was mentioning that those in power may be doing things behind the scenes to get out information. I gave examples of Jimmy Carter sending his Press Secretary to the FBI to find out how they handled UFOs, sending his Science Advisor to Nasa to start a new Blue Book style investigation, and pressuring many agencies to cooperate with FOIA requests for UFO documents.

Now, as Obama is leaving office, and one of his main advisers is an open proponent for UFO disclosure we have articles coming out from the CIA on "flying saucer" investigation and "X-files"huh? Not bad for an agency that is not involved or interested.

As the CIA works for the President, maybe we need to thank Obama and Podesta for this as this administration winds down. The CIA would not make such a bold move without the green light from the White House as the President is ultimately responsible for what the CIA says.

https://www.cia.gov/about-cia/todays-cia/what-we-do

This same pattern happened at the end of the Reagan administration where UFO information was leaked in a TV show called "UFO Cover-up Live."

This show can be viewed at

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA5GpKcJ3zc

The two articles just released by the CIA are,

"Take a peek into Our X-files" which is timely with the return of the X-files series on TV January 24 and a new X-files movie upcoming.

https://www.cia.gov/news-information/blog/2016/take-a-peek-into-our-x-files.html

The other article is titled "How to Investigate a Flying Saucer."This is significant because they use the word flying saucer instead of the term UFO created by the USAF in 1952. It is a small change but implies objects instead of unknowns. It is similar to the important change in Hillary Clinton's UFO comment that I think we may have been visited already by aliens. She uses the actual word alien and says they may already be here which counters the main scientific objective that there may be ET life out there somewhere, but it can't get here because of the rules 17th century Newtonian physics.

https://www.cia.gov/news-information/featured-story-archive/2016-featured-story-archive/how-to-investigate-a-flying-saucer.html

The CIA has not released anything on its website about UFO since 1997 when Clinton's CIA Director James Woolsey ordered a review of the CIA's role in UFO investigations. This new development of posting positive UFO articles in my opinion is an action approved by President Barack Obama.

Grant Cameron
www.presidentialufo.com

http://whitehouseufo.blogspot.ca/2016/01/possibly-important-ufo-development.html

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xx Re: Obama Appoints UFO Disclosure Advocate?
« Reply #69 on: Jan 24th, 2016, 02:56am »

I will believe it when I see it and I hope its soon cause I am not getting any younger.
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xx Re: Obama Appoints UFO Disclosure Advocate?
« Reply #70 on: Jan 24th, 2016, 2:49pm »

on Jan 24th, 2016, 02:56am, WingNut wrote:
I will believe it when I see it and I hope its soon cause I am not getting any younger.

I hear ya wingz
The same Grant Cameron has this on the link
Written by Grant Cameron
Saturday, 05 December 2015 16:41

Here is the proposed ad that Laurance Rockefeller was proposing to place in The News York Times, Washington Post, Chicago Tribune, Los Angeles Times and others, if the Clinton administration refused to deal with him regarding UFOs in 1993.

Mr. President

On the subject of UFO Phenomena -

What Do You Know? When Did You Learn It?

Have you Shared it With Congress?

When Will You Talk To The American People About It?

The Subject is as Important as any We Will Ever Face. Don’t try to go it Alone.

This Information Belongs to the World.


lets see... that was 1990s
did anyone answer the ole billionnaire geezer? did the ad go thru?
same exo politics posturing as it ever was..
cool
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xx Re: Obama Appoints UFO Disclosure Advocate?
« Reply #71 on: Jan 24th, 2016, 3:40pm »

Problem you have with the President is that no one can force his hand on any type of Disclosure.
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xx Re: Obama Appoints UFO Disclosure Advocate?
« Reply #72 on: Jan 24th, 2016, 4:49pm »

The problem with the president, any president, is they only know what they are told--which isn't necessarily the truth or the whole story.....
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xx Re: Obama Appoints UFO Disclosure Advocate?
« Reply #73 on: Jan 24th, 2016, 5:06pm »

on Jan 24th, 2016, 4:49pm, Swamprat wrote:
The problem with the president, any president, is they only know what they are told--which isn't necessarily the truth or the whole story.....


I see your point.
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xx Re: Obama Appoints UFO Disclosure Advocate?
« Reply #74 on: Jan 25th, 2016, 3:30pm »

There's another recent thread on this cia comment in the general ufo forum.
« Last Edit: Jan 25th, 2016, 3:31pm by drwu23 » User IP Logged

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