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 sticky  Author  Topic: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TRUTH  (Read 5219 times)
Keith
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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #1065 on: Jul 23rd, 2007, 01:32am »

They are watching our work. The drones are a round peg in a square hole, thus a more abstract approach is needed. All the education in the world does not guarantee one can reason outside the box. Those that can will help solve the puzzle.
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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #1066 on: Jul 23rd, 2007, 02:53am »

on Jul 22nd, 2007, 11:13pm, Latitude wrote:
I asked my scientist friend about it and here's his answer:


I don't want to be a smartass, but I don't get what he means... perhaps it's like that:

what a coincidence that I have some substancial knowledge about low frequency sound waves and their effects. rhytmic Ionization of air, like a very strong electrostatic field as a carrier with its amplitude modulated in a regular way, causes regular expansion of surrounding air and that is what creates a sound wave, like a plasma tweeter in a very very very expensive loudspeaker... If the operating speed of that oscillating field is beneath 20 to 16Hz, you get an infrasound wave that can be heard or felt down to ca. 10-5 Hz if the amplitude is great enough (At least more that 100db SPL). If you have two oscillators that work above infrasound and are slighlty detuned, their frequency difference causes their waves to interfere which creates a beat that has the freqency of the oscillator's difference. 50Hz interfering with 60Hz creates a 10Hz beat, for example. I don't like theoretical discussions about the technical riddles of UFOs, but infasound as a byproduct of their apparent electrostatic properties seems very likely and logical. That infrasound can cause sickness, aural and visual disorders and fear. I often hear about hallucinations caused by infrasound.. that is something I could not verify. There is no indication of hallucinations in any serious experiment with infrasound. But, here is the sensation of FEAR and axiety, and that is exactly what many UFO witnesses, including myself, do report. The subsonic wave has to be VERY strong to cause physical disorders, at least 100Hz SPL, but it does not need that much power to create anxiety because it seems to trigger achetypical reactions associated with earthquakes or volcanoes or storms that are saved in our subconscoiusness, where it has been saved throughout the ages as indicator that somethig dangerous that's gonna happen.

Hail to the hypnotizing toad!
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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #1067 on: Jul 23rd, 2007, 02:56am »

oops.. the quote I am refering to is: (latitude)

Quote:
The low frequency vibration is likely due to two or more resonators used in the propulsion system. If there are two or more resonators driving the propulsion system, then slightly detuning one resonator from the other might be used as means for maneuvering. The slight detuning causes a beat, generally at lower sonic and subsonic frequencies. huh
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Xeroid
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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #1068 on: Jul 23rd, 2007, 05:40am »

on Jul 22nd, 2007, 12:00pm, Atrueoriginall wrote:
Xeroid, I have more then a few comments that I ponder on frequently but I'm going to move them to another location, which I'll post in here when I'm done forming my thoughts. It may be an hour or two because I have other things to attend to as well.
.


ATO, I look forward to reading them.

--Note to self: Philosophical discussion = no interest wink

My timing was way off, I felt things were settling down so I thought we should investigate a philosophical angle..but bang! Off the thread flies again with new information.

--Reminder to all: Hope your ready if this turns out to be true smiley
« Last Edit: Jul 23rd, 2007, 05:41am by Xeroid » User IP Logged

Sometimes I wish I had not witnessed a highly unusual aerial phenomenon with my Mum and Dad driving over the Scottish moors on dark night.
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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #1069 on: Jul 23rd, 2007, 07:29am »

I am Dave. I've been slammed so many times I thought I should figure out how to get registered and login. I am a neuroscientist who has followed UFOs for 45 years as a "hobby." I am not a photo expert. I apologize for not using the original hi res picture, but didn't know where it was. I've taken a LOT of time to read a lot of the posts now, but frankly I didn't register because I have a 60 hour a week job and don't have time to follow all the threads. I usually hit the casebook site just before I go to bed to see what new things are on there. I was intrigued by the strange craft, like a lot of others. Originally, I took the first picture to a graphics artist who works in the department. He said it looked fake, and he is real good at cg illustrations.

My expertise with pictures is very limited, but even the hi res picture isn't natural coloring and has been enhanced in several ways. Where is the original print? And don't tell me to search through 70 pages of threads to find it.

I may not be a photo analysis expert, but I am as much as an "expert" on how a UFO might work as anyone. I find it absurd that there is so much speculation about how this or that part of it might generate fields, antigravity effects, etc. Between 1966-68 I worked for a classified nuclear weapons subcontractor and had a Q security clearance. I can tell you that no one in my division could get access to documents in another division without a need to know. The idea that "Isaac" could simply photocopy the most sensitive classified documents in history, and walk out with them is just nonsense.

I didn't mean to gore so many oxes with my naive questions. Sorry. And all the slamming is showing me why it was a good reason not to register at all. At first, I was unaware that there was a forum, so I just emailed BJ as the webmaster. The level of bile directed at me was just incredible.

I am a scientist, and although my PhD is in chemistry and neuroscience rather than plasma physics, we are taught to question all our data, and not blindly accept everything we see or hear. As a scientist, the appropriate approach to this phenomenon would be to start with the assumption that it is a hoax, and then prove that it isn't.

I also continue to maintain that no one could take an alien artifact from a technology probably thousands of years ahead of ours and decipher what it was to the extent that they could say it was "a personal antigravity device" or that the graphics were some kind of inherent computer function. I personally know the person who reverse-engineered the first Intel chip for AMD, and he did it by grinding the chip down layer by layer and doing serial reconstruction. But, he knew the materials in chip, and what it was supposed to do. We don't know that about any alien technology.

I'll probably get slammed some more for actually registering and posting, and I'll probably keep my opinions to myself in the future.

BJ: Sorry you took so much heat for posting my comments before I knew about this forum.

Dave

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Marvin
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Mmm, yes, very curious, very interesting....


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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA-More from Dave
« Reply #1070 on: Jul 23rd, 2007, 07:39am »

on Jul 23rd, 2007, 12:47am, starsigndavid wrote:
The Council of Senior UFOlogists have not made a peep, so far as I am aware, other than Friedman saying it was in the gray box on his desk. It seems to me that there is MORE than SUFFICIENT evidence at this point to interest all those investigors active and emeritus. I don't have a clue where they are or why they are running from this one like a rabid weasel!


That’s because MUFON and other investigators have already declared the drones to be a hoax…

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/viewnews.php?id=99485

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2007/jul/m08-008.shtml

As I have said before… I am not ready to throw out the baby with the bath water yet. If one of the photos is real… then it would be wrong to throw all of the photos out as a hoax.

But if there is something obviously wrong with any photo… I think we should question it.

For the Ty photos, I have seen no evidence put forth that would explain how all of the sky would become absolutely white (a photo of the sun cannot give you higher RBG values)… with no pixel color variation anywhere as one moves away from the center (like Steven’s photo’s do), it is as if the complete sky was replace with the color white. I have never seen it occur in an untouched photograph. The fog idea does not explain why the trees underneath the drone are in direct sunlight. These photos, at the very minimum, call for further critical scrutiny.
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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #1071 on: Jul 23rd, 2007, 07:46am »

on Jul 23rd, 2007, 05:40am, Xeroid wrote:
ATO, I look forward to reading them.

--Note to self: Philosophical discussion = no interest wink

My timing was way off, I felt things were settling down so I thought we should investigate a philosophical angle..but bang! Off the thread flies again with new information.

--Reminder to all: Hope your ready if this turns out to be true smiley


Yes this is so, that's why I wanted to move it to a place where such comments have already been made. If you want to see where I'm talking about, go to the address here below. Meanwhile, I need a particular mood to post and I don't feel so good today so you might have to give me a day. The title might throw you but it's on the same lines that you were talking about.

http://ufocasebook.conforums.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=disclosure&num=1179096560&start=0
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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA-More from Dave
« Reply #1072 on: Jul 23rd, 2007, 07:56am »

on Jul 23rd, 2007, 07:39am, bakosawa wrote:
That’s because MUFON and other investigators have already declared the drones to be a hoax…


That's not completely true bakosawa. Mufon hired two CGI people who only commented on the Chad drone. Just the same, since then other CGI people have said the contrary. Ufologist aren't going to fall on just the words of Mufon certainly and assume that all of the drones and Isaac are a hoax just because two individuals said that Chad's photos were.

I see it more of a extremely involved situation that Ufology doesn't have the time to involve themselves with. They all have regular jobs that consume the larger part of their day so like anyone else, it's hard to play catch up.

I'm not making excuses for them certainly because I think they've missed the boat since there was still enough time to consider at least one of them.

Just by you making that statement above, if someone were to come in here for the first time and click on the end page here what would they know. That's what disinformation is.
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« Last Edit: Jul 23rd, 2007, 08:00am by oljack666 » User IP Logged

onthefence55
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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA-More from Dave
« Reply #1073 on: Jul 23rd, 2007, 08:06am »

on Jul 23rd, 2007, 07:39am, bakosawa wrote:
For the Ty photos, I have seen no evidence put forth that would explain how all of the sky would become absolutely white (a photo of the sun cannot give you higher RBG values)… with no pixel color variation anywhere as one moves away from the center (like Steven’s photo’s do), it is as if the complete sky was replace with the color white. I have never seen it occur in an untouched photograph. The fog idea does not explain why the trees underneath the drone are in direct sunlight. These photos, at the very minimum, call for further critical scrutiny.


Did you not see my post here a while ago? Please confirm that you read this one then.

This is a re-do of that same post but this time for OMF:

A quick search of the intarweb produced the following three images with white overcast skies. I performed a simple threshold at max test to show that the entire background sky is actually saturated at max (255).

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Automatic cameras perform an automatic exposure function which tries very hard to get an even amount of brightness onto the film/ccd. In situations where photographing a subject against a bright background, a silhouette may be created. This is because the dynamic range of the film or CCD is not wide enough to capture the small nuances of the bright background and the dark subject.

LMH's web/computer help has tweaked both photographs "for more detail" as has been mentioned already by her. Color and contrast modifications are inevitable.
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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #1074 on: Jul 23rd, 2007, 08:07am »

on Jul 23rd, 2007, 07:29am, chemicaldave wrote:
I'll probably get slammed some more for actually registering and posting, and I'll probably keep my opinions to myself in the future.


No you're not going to get slammed because I'm going to explain to everyone something that happened yesterday that nobody realized.

I was staring at OnTheFence's pictures yesterday of LMH's original that I think was sent to Urantia and BJ's photo he used for the article.

I was thinking about how BJ acquired the photo. Then it dawned on me that I had saved it to my hard drive when Urantia first posted it. Later in the day, BJ decided he was going to run it. I did two things. I posted Urantia's jpg in my email to BJ and I attached the photo to the email that I had in my hard drive. I'm guessing that BJ used the attachment.

Then BJ gets it and obviously compresses the jpg for reduced bandwidth as well.

So how corrupt do you think that photo ended up by the time BJ got it? That's not really a question, grin - I think we know the answer based on Dave's post.

Unfortunately, that's what Dave was working with because he didn't know about Urantia's post because Dave had opened up the article in the website and not the forum.

Live and learn.
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« Last Edit: Jul 23rd, 2007, 08:20am by oljack666 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #1075 on: Jul 23rd, 2007, 08:27am »

on Jul 23rd, 2007, 07:29am, chemicaldave wrote:
I am Dave. I've been slammed so many times I thought I should figure out how to get registered and login. I am a neuroscientist who has followed UFOs for 45 years as a "hobby."

What better way to indulge your hobby than to participate in a forum. I also was interested in UFOs for many years, it wasn't until my participation in these forums that I've really learned anything of value.


Quote:
Where is the original print? And don't tell me to search through 70 pages of threads to find it.

The original print is in the hands of LMH, nobody has been allowed to see it except her and the original photographer. It is very likely that she may keep that forever and never release it for serious analysis.


Quote:
I didn't mean to gore so many oxes with my naive questions. Sorry. And all the slamming is showing me why it was a good reason not to register at all. At first, I was unaware that there was a forum, so I just emailed BJ as the webmaster. The level of bile directed at me was just incredible.

Welcome to the internet! It's like living on the street, someone can come in from no where, slap you on the face then run and hide. There's an adjustment period, but you'll get used to it. wink


Quote:
As a scientist, the appropriate approach to this phenomenon would be to start with the assumption that it is a hoax, and then prove that it isn't.

And here I thought that the scientific method started with no assumptions. Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't it go this way: You have a phenomenon, then analyze what it is -- if your results show hoax/real then draw your conclusion.


Quote:
I also continue to maintain that no one could take an alien artifact from a technology probably thousands of years ahead of ours and decipher what it was to the extent that they could say it was "a personal antigravity device" or that the graphics were some kind of inherent computer function.

Actually, Isaac never said that they where able to decode/decipher/back_engineered anything. They tried, and as far as we know they failed.


Quote:
I'll probably get slammed some more for actually registering and posting, and I'll probably keep my opinions to myself in the future.

Do not keep your opinions to yourself. We might learn something, and in return you might change your opinions. It's a win-win situation.
« Last Edit: Jul 23rd, 2007, 08:28am by onthefence55 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #1076 on: Jul 23rd, 2007, 08:34am »

on Jul 23rd, 2007, 07:29am, chemicaldave wrote:
I'll probably get slammed some more for actually registering and posting, and I'll probably keep my opinions to myself in the future.

BJ: Sorry you took so much heat for posting my comments before I knew about this forum.

Dave


Dave, welcome to the forum. I hope you will continue to post your opinions. We all have "one" -- an opinion that is. I am sorry you felt slammed. This forum is a place for healthy debate... please don't take it personally.

I think people here got a little put off by the authoritative "its not real" approach of your analysis, when many cgi experts on this forum have gone over and over and over and over and over... and over and over the photos and haved discussed them for months, and have yet made an affirmative decision that the photos are not real.

Most here will be the first to tell you that we are in no way just believing everything that is thrown down the turnpike.... we all remain open to the possibility that this is not real, this is why we are here, analyzing til there is no analyzing left. Percentage-wise most people here believe it IS real.

We welcome your comments and opinions.
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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #1077 on: Jul 23rd, 2007, 08:39am »

on Jul 23rd, 2007, 08:07am, Atrueoriginall wrote:
So how corrupt do you think that photo ended up by the time BJ got it? That's not really a question, grin - I think we know the answer based on Dave's post.

Unfortunately, that's what Dave was working with because he didn't know about Urantia's post because Dave had opened up the article in the website and not the forum.

Live and learn.
.


Which is exactly why I don't agree with BJ posting the "Critique of the Drone photo" in the main section of the site today.... it only lists Dave's "opinion" based on the photo he received.

If we post Dave's opinion, then there should be Onthefence's determination of "what he did" that explains the anomolies posted with it.

It just seems so authoritative coming from BJ posting it as the one and final answer to the photo question.... which I don't believe it is.
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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #1078 on: Jul 23rd, 2007, 08:39am »

on Jul 21st, 2007, 8:02pm, onthefence55 wrote:
Here's the history as I remember it:

  • LMH published the low-res Ty scans on her website.
  • Many people asked if she had hi-res scans and she said that she would send them out.
  • She then published the Ty hi-res fin scan on her website in regards to another report from her website.
  • The forums went nutz when they knew there were more details to be seen, everyone continued begging and pleading for her to release all 12 hi-res Ty scans.
  • Weeks passed by and she released the "aa" hi-res scan showing the whole craft.
  • Everybody praised her for releasing a hi-res scan.

We are still trying to figure out something about this photo here in regard to how, where and when LMH got it. Do you think it's been removed from her sight or can you remember what else was in the article where she posted it and I can go do a hunt and peck.

Quote:
  • She then published the Ty hi-res fin scan on her website in regards to another report from her website.


  • Thanks.
    « Last Edit: Jul 23rd, 2007, 08:40am by oljack666 » User IP Logged

    castles4me
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    xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
    « Reply #1079 on: Jul 23rd, 2007, 08:44am »

    on Jul 23rd, 2007, 05:40am, Xeroid wrote:
    ATO, I look forward to reading them.

    --Note to self: Philosophical discussion = no interest wink

    My timing was way off, I felt things were settling down so I thought we should investigate a philosophical angle..but bang! Off the thread flies again with new information.

    --Reminder to all: Hope your ready if this turns out to be true smiley


    Xeroid, I think there IS very much interest in the philosophical discussion... I know Mark and I are always up for that lol.... And, there was even a thread started for such discussions called "Disclosure...now What?" where we were discussing some of the same things you mentioned in your previous post.

    And, don't get discouraged. I know sometimes I have brought things up that seem important, and the thread just goes on without my topic being expounded upon. Don't give up smiley And, check out the other thread about "now what?"
    http://ufocasebook.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&num=1183564558
    « Last Edit: Jul 23rd, 2007, 09:10am by castles4me » User IP Logged

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