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 sticky  Author  Topic: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TRUTH  (Read 9114 times)
DrDil
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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #1110 on: Jul 23rd, 2007, 12:04pm »

on Jul 23rd, 2007, 11:28am, DarkSky wrote:
"I believe that Steve Murillo's (Los Angles area investigator) email was to point out that the report was not from him, but rather Steve Reichmuth ( NorCal MUFON investigator that filed the report). There were some references to "Investigator Steve in California" going around, believe he wanted to clear it up.


From: Steve Murillo <steve.nul>
Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2007 23:31:06 -0700
Archived: Sun, 08 Jul 2007 12:13:39 -0400


Correction to all. I did not forward _my_ investigation nor did I imply that I conducted the investigation. I forwarded an investigation conducted by Steve Reichmuth, the Northern California State Section Director for MUFON.

Please read the e-mail _carefully_.

Steve R. Murillo
State Section Director
MUFON LA"


Just to clear up the, "clearing up." smiley
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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #1111 on: Jul 23rd, 2007, 12:14pm »

on Jul 23rd, 2007, 11:28am, DarkSky wrote:
I seriously doubt the 'Coast to Coast' people may even know
about this authenticity issue.

As of May 16, 2007, I have not recieved any reply from these
witnesses.

Clearly a 'HOAX'. Case completed, but will reopen should I
recieve get a reply from the witness. (hopefully).

Very Respectfully,

Steve Reichmuth
Mufon - Northern California
SSD - Alameda / Contra Costa Co.
May 16, 2007 (20:19 hours)”
END Steve Reichmuth report

Continue Murillo email
As you can see from his comments, Mr. Reichmuth is convinced that the photos are a HOAX. So don’t get too excited. Know that there are people out there who get their jollies from spoofing the unsuspecting and gullible. Hey, don’t feel too bad. If it makes you feel any better, I thought they looked real too. As ancient Chinese proverb say; “believe nothing of what you hear,
and only half of what you see”. Or maybe that was Kwai Chang Caine. No matter.

Steve R. Murillo

State Section Director
MUFON L.A.
============================
Have not heard IF the investigation was reopened due to the Isaac material. Anyone know?

DarkSky



Oh man! This is bad. Prepare for the believers to start claiming that MUFON has been infiltrated by debunkers from the PTB!!

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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #1112 on: Jul 23rd, 2007, 12:15pm »

on Jul 23rd, 2007, 10:38am, Latitude wrote:
LMH posted the portion of the ii Ty hi res photo on her website. The hi res she released last week was aa, not bb. The bb photo is of a different angle. The Steven photos were released by this website and are already 2496x1664 72 dpi. It has never been made public if these are the highest res. That would be a question for BJ.

I've got a subscription for Earthfiles but I don't know what you're looking for exactly.
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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #1113 on: Jul 23rd, 2007, 12:27pm »

on Jul 23rd, 2007, 11:53am, castles4me wrote:
Don't get your drawers in a wad Urantia.... DarkSky (not STAR) was just posting that information because there was a question about it. DarkSky never said he agreed with the information, just posting it so we can know what MUFON's stance was on the issue.

And, when did you start being the forum police.... counting people's number of lines in their postshuh


Thank you for pointing out that mistake in my post. I have corrected it.

I have an automatic line counter on my PC.

So now I'm the 'forum police'....someone has to do it.LOL

Please keep a sharp eye on my posts. I often write them up in a hurry and I make mistakes.
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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #1114 on: Jul 23rd, 2007, 12:36pm »

on Jul 23rd, 2007, 11:43am, urantia606 wrote:
Hello Dark Sky:

Your post is approx 118 lines long by various writers.

Each line of the 'report' & 'letters' gets more unbelieveable. They are complete nonsense.

Mufon is commonly known in the UFO community as the premiere organization for dedicated skeptics and other non-believers.

I'll leave it at that and let the members of this forum decide what 'they' think of the contributions .

PS:

MUFON has a State Section Director? I am so impressed. Wow! Probably merits a high salary.


IMO they (MUFON) are to be commended for having a "Field Investigator's Manual", training classes, and testing prior to hiring an investigator. Having standarized data collection is benificial for all the investigators (you and I included) that want to review the data.

However, I also differ with the conclusions they have drawn. IMO it is to early to close the books and call it a hoax.

DarkSky
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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #1115 on: Jul 23rd, 2007, 12:41pm »

on Jul 23rd, 2007, 11:50am, Nodnunk wrote:
The tone of the question suggests that (1) there may be a chance of a threat to the drone from the primitive Earth technology. Or (2) there is a conflict between rival alien races, one of which owns the drones and the other is hiding on the surface and poses a known threat to the drone owners. ATO, can you tell us more about which way your thinking goes?


You'll need to define primitive Earth technology. If you're speaking of a shot gun, yeah that would work. lol The rival alien race thing never crossed my mind.

Quote:
Because the drones are stark and without first class accommodations, doesn't imply they are antiquated. They may do their job (whatever it is) very well. If they are intelligent mission focused autonomous droid drones that are usually invisible, they probably care little about appearances.


But an alien would have anticipated one falling out of the sky. They have to because of the nature of the technology that they would be handing over. I put in brackets (internal components in particular), not external.

Quote:
As an Earth-person, I'd use whatever vehicle best fit the mission regardless of risk.


I find no reason to respond to your last quote because I think you did already. grin grin

« Last Edit: Jul 23rd, 2007, 12:42pm by oljack666 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #1116 on: Jul 23rd, 2007, 1:18pm »

on Jul 23rd, 2007, 07:29am, chemicaldave wrote:
I find it absurd that there is so much speculation about how this or that part of it might generate fields, antigravity effects, etc. Between 1966-68 I worked for a classified nuclear weapons subcontractor and had a Q security clearance. I can tell you that no one in my division could get access to documents in another division without a need to know. The idea that "Isaac" could simply photocopy the most sensitive classified documents in history, and walk out with them is just nonsense.

ChemicalDave – I just thought I’d let you know you are certainly not alone in this forum regarding the issues you have raised. You think exactly the same way as me. I’ve raised this and countless similar issues on too many occasions to remember!! There are just far too many problems with the full Isaac story and documents that he released. A short example,

1. OVERVIEW

This document is intended as a primer on the tentative findings of the Q4 1986 research phase (referred to herein as "Q4-86") at the Palo Alto CARET Laboratory (PACL). In accordance with the CARET program mission statement, the goal of this research has been achieving a greater understanding of extraterrestrial technology within the context of commercial applications and civilian use. Examples of such applications, in no particular order, include transportation, medicine, construction, energy, computing and communication. The ultimate goal of this research is to provide a core set of advanced technologies in a condition suitable for patent review
.


Why would a research report include what is essentially a mission statement divulging its ultimate goal. Who is this to be presented to? They certainly wouldn’t tell industry where it’s from. And anybody involved with the organization and in a position that would entitle them to see the report wouldn’t be best pleased at damning evidence such as this and the admission of the absolute existence of vastly superior intelligent, extraterrestrial life-forms.

" 2. EXTRACTION

The process of converting raw artifacts of extraterrestrial origin to usable, fully documented human technology is termed extraction. `The extraction process ultimately consists of two phases: first is the establishment of a complete theoretical and operational understanding of the artifact, and second is a distillation of the artifact's underlying principles into a usable, product-oriented technology. Suggestions of specific product applications on behalf of PACL have been encouraged, but are not considered mandatory or essential.
"


This again seems like it was wrote for the uninitiated man on the street.

The process of converting raw artifacts of extraterrestrial origin to usable, fully documented human technology is termed extraction

That’s two for two, first two paragraphs and the smoking gun of UFOlogy becomes irrefutable evidence, again why would anybody involved with the organization reading this report, want to know or need to know the basic terminology for what are obviously highly sensitive documents unless they were cleared to read it in the first place.

And in which case they wouldn’t need the clandestine and covert specifics spelled out in what could easily become proof of the greatest conspiracy mankind has ever known?

And REMEMBER, this is a quarterly report, “Research on the internal functionality of A1 began late in Q4-86, and as such, little is currently known.” So, for all little is currently known they deemed it fit to outline the entire aim of the extraterrestrial extraction process? And in a quarterly report?

Isaac Wrote,
“So in other words, civilians like myself who had at--at most--some decent experience working for the DoD but no actual military training or involvement, were suddenly finding ourselves in the same room as highly classified extra-terrestrial technology. Of course they spent about 2 months briefing us all before we saw or did anything, and did their best to convince us that if we ever leaked a single detail about what we were being told, they’d do everything short of digging up our ancestors and putting a few slugs in them too just for good measure. It seemed like there was an armed guard in every corner of every room. I’d worked under some pretty hefty NDAs in my time but this was so far out of my depth”

Isaac is stressing how much he would stand to lose if he ever leaked ANYTHING he was being told. And how privileged the position was that he held as a CIVILIAN.

Isaac Wrote,
I was also starting to disagree with the direction the leadership wanted to take as far as the subject of extra-terrestrials went……The truth is, our management didn't even want us discussing non-technical aspects of this subject (such as ethical or philosophical issues), even among ourselves, as they felt it was enough of a breach of security to let civilians like us anywhere near this kind of thing in the first place.”

Again, stressing how important it was to not even discuss with colleagues the implications or origins of anything they were shown, again he mentions CIVILIANS.

The problem I have with this lies in the report/s he leaked. It has the name at the top (PALO ALTO CARET LABORATORY Q4-86 RESEARCH REPORT) this is normal but bearing in mind what he has told us in the quotes above, WHERE IS THE CLASSIFICATION?. Every document that is not meant for public consumption is marked with some sort of classification.

This method is evident in nearly every document I’ve seen, not just governmental ones but (confidential) private sector ones too. It seems absurd after all of the constant reminders about security that this would be allowed to happen.

Isaac Wrote,
“A page from an inventory review with a photo that appears to depict one of the parts found in the Rajman sighting and parts very similar to the Big Basin craft
The first 9 pages of one of our quarterly research reports
Scans of the original photographs”


Another security issue that greatly bothers me is the fact that these are the exact same photos that we see in the finished report, Isaac even states this himself. Now I may just be a little naïve, but surely if these have been supplied they would have to be signed for or some form of tracking would be in place (to prevent removal.)

Considering how much information he supplied us there’s very little to work with in terms of the, “Real world.”

Like verifying in any way anything he said...........

Surely they are part of only a handful of documents which not only specify their origins as being extraterrestrial, but actually have the original photos of the recovered extraterrestrial technology (antigravity drive). They then employ a handful of elite persons to try to understand and reverse engineer this technology yet don’t notice when original photographs go missing.

Could the extraterrestrial technology really mean so little to them as to not even closely monitor all corroborative evidence?

This is a little more than just classified stuff. It’s essentially photographs, the very existence of which would have profound and world wide implications that would extend to practically every intelligent, living being on the planet.

I feel a little more emphasis would be placed on the security side when dealing with an alien antigravity device obtained from a crashed alien spacecraft.

In summary, I’m not saying the Drone images are hoaxed. But I feel that the entire Isaac documentation raised far more questions than it answered!! And again I feel I must stress that we shouldn’t take them as indisputable fact!!

on Jul 23rd, 2007, 07:29am, chemicaldave wrote:
“I'll probably get slammed some more for actually registering and posting, and I'll probably keep my opinions to myself in the future.”

Please feel free to share any opinions at all, I constantly get slammed, flamed, called a debunker etc. etc. I’m still here questioning anything I feel warrants questioning.

Truth is none of us may ever know for a fact, just look at Roswell, 60 years ago and it is still to be proved conclusively what did or didn’t crash there.

I’ve also said before that we should all pick our fights, and as far as the Isaac documentation is concerned, it’s a fight I feel the UFO community is destined to lose…………….
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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #1117 on: Jul 23rd, 2007, 1:20pm »

on Jul 23rd, 2007, 12:27pm, urantia606 wrote:
Please keep a sharp eye on my posts. I often write them up in a hurry and I make mistakes.

Always wink
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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #1118 on: Jul 23rd, 2007, 1:35pm »

Now the debate has come to boil:

I have a suggestion: If all my research on and off the internet has to bare any meaning, this is all Earth related.

The sightings (Original ones) are real.

The Question about, if it's the Grey, are inconclusive, as allways.

It makes much more sense, that what we've seen in these photo's are mishaps made by Terrestrial Laboratories, trying out the excact things, Isaac told was in the move in the 80'th.

They have been tried to figure out Alien Tech, Not ONLY for Commercial use, the things eyewitnesses have seen, are much more likely to be the truth. Who can say, that "Isaac"'s part of the deal, are a small branch of what the Laboratories under Protection of State Departments were working on at the time?

Never believe, that so called "Open Libraries of Knowledge" are containing secret issues.

What the core of this is, for all we know at this time, the collective Departments of Defence Worldwide are hiding something...hence the gassing of visitors of the new formed Crop Circle in England. Several witnesses that attended the sight, were throwing up on the site, as Helicopters flew over. If that isn't coverup, I don't know what is?

As I see it, ET has crashed more than once here on Earth, and the "lucky Ones" picked it up...and are now, as has been for a long time..figuring out how to use this Technology.

Yes I've checked out Einstein, (To every action, there is a reaction /Gravity/Antigravity) and Isaac Newton...The apple fell, did not fall up again...?

Just some thougths, I might be a UFO NERD, and if so, aren't we all,

VonStern
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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #1119 on: Jul 23rd, 2007, 1:37pm »

on Jul 23rd, 2007, 09:53am, Atrueoriginall wrote:
Only that it's the Saratoga entrance to Big Basin.


That's a shame. UFOcasebook was contacted directly by Jenna/Stephen. Is there a way we could get this info from them?
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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #1120 on: Jul 23rd, 2007, 1:38pm »

HEY CHEMICALDAVE; THANK YOU FOR THE PM. WELCOME< I AM STILL SURE THAT THE DRONES ARE REAL< AND ET TECH>. PLEASE CONTINUE TO POST WHEN YOU GET A CHANCE. I KNOW YOU SAID YOU DONT READ HERE UNTIL LATE NITE AND YOU WORK. SO SHARE YOUR SCIENTIFIC EXPERTISE WITH US>
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Mmm, yes, very curious, very interesting....


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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #1121 on: Jul 23rd, 2007, 1:41pm »

Does anyone have the history on how the Ty photos have been handled, passed down, copied... I assume to Linda.
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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #1122 on: Jul 23rd, 2007, 1:56pm »

on Jul 23rd, 2007, 1:37pm, drewlac wrote:
That's a shame. UFOcasebook was contacted directly by Jenna/Stephen. Is there a way we could get this info from them?


That info would be from Stephen, Jenna wasn't present when he shot the picture. BJ had emailed Stephen but he didn't respond. He went to LMH after he gave us the pictures so we lost track of him after that.
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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #1123 on: Jul 23rd, 2007, 1:59pm »

I missed a doctor's appt, sad so thought I'd look here to see what is happening.

I don't think any alien artifacts are available for commerical study or use because the defense applications are too sensitive. Consider the military advantage that any country would have if they could reverse engineer the drive for one of these vehicles. I do believe that aliens visit earth, regularly, and my personal opinion is that they use fusion engines for power (the sky is full of prototypes so discovery of fusion is indepent of your culture and math system once you are advanced), and take water from earth to electrolyze to hydrogen for the fusion reaction. Perhaps we are an oasis on one of their trade routes. There are probably lots of planets out there, but how many with water? the only reason any one can give for why "they can't be here" is that they are too far away. Ho-hum... Alcubierre postulated a mechanism for travel that would get them here, so the distance thing isn't a problem. We just don't know how to make the weird matter it takes, although Casimir demonstrated that it did exist.

That being said, if the U.S. govt got a crashed ship, it would be classified at the highest level, and we know that previous presidents couldn't even get info on them. So, Isaac says they are being developed for commercial applications? Come on folks. The strategic advantages of their systems would be so valuable to the military that we'd never see a commercial application.

I think, if they have "artifacts" they won't tell anyone because of the military value. And tell me the Department of Defense doesn't get whatever they want.

I used to think they were interested in studying us, and sort of "benevolent" but my many years ago my wife said, 'how do you know there aren't good ones and bad ones, just like earth people." Yeah. Why not? So, if we are a water resource for various different alien races, they do have a vested interest in watching what happens here, just as we start wars over oil and strategic resources. That is my overview on extraterrestrial craft. We are a strategic resource. Start a nuclear war and pollute the air and water, and it does impact them, probably in ways we don't understand and wouldn't like to discover.

So they could be probing or droning, or whatever, but for what purpose? If it's strategic, then we're in big trouble. That's why I think it's important to know what they are doing. I think the biggest damage to this whole field is the low signal-to-noise ratio that makes it so hard to study the real phenomenon. There are nearly 80 pages of threads on here, mostly about whether the pictures are authentic, and that was boosted by Isaac.

Wouldn't it be a lot more interesting if everyone had really authentic pictures/artifacts and could study them instead of all this chatter about authenticity, and how they might work? Anyway, I gotta get back to real work. Thanks for the challenges!

Dave



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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #1124 on: Jul 23rd, 2007, 2:00pm »

Thanks ATO, I guess its time for me to email to LHM. I'm sure she obtained this info when she interviewed each of the witnesses
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