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 sticky  Author  Topic: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TRUTH  (Read 9467 times)
MarkM
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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #990 on: Jul 22nd, 2007, 3:20pm »

My question to BJ is this -

Why is this Dave email receiving so much attention, especially in light of the volumes of analysis available here by those with far more training in photo analysis? Why did he send it to you and not simply post it here in the forum? Perhaps in doing that he circumvents the system, appears more authoritative than he is, and avoids any direct challenges.

Something does smell fishy, he's right about that.

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oljack666
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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #991 on: Jul 22nd, 2007, 3:28pm »


BJ is so busy that he hasn't had the time available to check the threads so honestly Mark, even BJ doesn't know the discovery in these drone/Isaac threads.

I really, really wish he could see it though. Instead, I think he thinks its just conversation but I'm not sure.

I didn't mean to quote you. I edited this. My boo boo.

« Last Edit: Jul 22nd, 2007, 3:36pm by oljack666 » User IP Logged

CentralScrutinizer
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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #992 on: Jul 22nd, 2007, 3:32pm »

on Jul 22nd, 2007, 3:10pm, MarkM wrote:
I have to disagree with the assertion that someones background is not relevant to the "evidence" that they present. It's extremely relevant to their credibility, that's why lawyers call in experts to testify in trials.

In reading Daves email to BJ he clearly states that he is not a participating member of this forum. So, it's no surprise that he has not read the opinions of those members here, and on OM, that are professionals at photo analysis. In addition, as far as I know the only drone video that exists states that it is a CGI simulation.

I'm sorry, this is not someone who has truly studied the evolution of this "event". No mention of eyewitness testimony either. But, then again, to many people this case begins and ends with the pictures. This simply is not the case.

I'm not an expert in dentistry, I doubt that my opinion on a root canal would count for much against that of a practicing dentist!



You're right on that. Every 'video' that I've seen has pronounced somewhere in a description that it is a CGI representation, I don't think I've seen any of them claiming to be 'real' (Thank God)...it's been the observer who has stipulated that the videos have been real, and then posting things on their comments pages like "THIS IS SO FAKE!". . . well DUH......

I guess there are a few people doing some camera tests re: saturation and compression/artifacting...
So I think I'll wait and see what is said before i spend the rest of the day taking pictures of an empty sky and having my neighbors going "uh, dude.....WHAT are you doing?"...

re: the boxes/compression anomalies/artifacting etc around the drone.. it's hard to tell without knowing what levels and filters etc that Dave used to come up with his final images. I mean there are slight traces of boxes around the trees in the bottom corners too, as well as some artifacting and pixelization around the trees... that doesn't mean that they were CGI trees and placed onto the image. At least I hope it doesn't
« Last Edit: Jul 22nd, 2007, 3:33pm by CentralScrutinizer » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #993 on: Jul 22nd, 2007, 3:32pm »

Yeah, anybody who has spent anytime at all on this case would know we got past the aerodynamic thing weeks ago. Seems like a silly comment to me.

And I think MarkM is right on about the method of post from "Dave"
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oljack666
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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #994 on: Jul 22nd, 2007, 3:34pm »

I'm going to have to ask this, which is futile because in 10 more pages the newcomers will not have read this but we do need to allow people to voice their opinions freely. By freely I mean, we can't slam them when they bring a piece of discovery in. It makes it all look one sided as if we're flat not going to accept the other possibility. And, it doesn't matter how the information came into the forum either.

The poster, be it present or not feels intimidated because they made an attempt to present something. It doesn't matter what the "something" was, the feeling is there and I know that the webmaster doesn't want that for the forum. By intimidated, I mean that the poster does not feel as if he can post his opinion freely.
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« Last Edit: Jul 22nd, 2007, 3:50pm by oljack666 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA-More from Dave
« Reply #995 on: Jul 22nd, 2007, 3:36pm »

on Jul 22nd, 2007, 1:39pm, B J Booth wrote:
<comments removed, see original message>


You have taken the JPEG compressed image from the UFOCasebook news page. That image was heavily compressed to reduce bandwidth. JPEG artifacting shows up as square blotches very much like what you saw. I have just taken that same image (from the UFOCasebook news page) and performed a simple threshold test to show that the blotches appear there.

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If you had taken the time to read the forum and hunt down the original Hi-res image that was supplied by Linda Moutlon Howe then you would have come to this conclusion; the large image contain virtually no compression artifacts as shown by the threshold test.

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Please log onto the forum.

I suggest you use simple tools that are fully understood rather than complex "FIX PHOTOGRAPH" tools that may add to the error.
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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #996 on: Jul 22nd, 2007, 3:37pm »

on Jul 22nd, 2007, 3:34pm, Atrueoriginall wrote:
I'm going to have to ask this, which is futile because in 10 more pages the newcomers will not have read this but we do need to allow people to voice their opinions freely. By freely I mean, we can't slam them when they bring a piece of discovery in. It makes it all look one sided as if we're flat not going to accept the other possibility. And, it doesn't matter how the information came into the forum either.

The poster, be it present or not feels intimidated because they made an attempt to present something. It doesn't matter what the "something" was, the feeling is there and I know that the webmaster doesn't want that for the forum.
.



I think discovery, regardless of whether it's "pro" or "con" is always great. It's people who come in and post their conclusion without stating one bit of evidence for their conclusion to support it that...honestly by their own doing so, open themselves up to be heavily criticized... case in point the other night, with uh, what's his name......wink
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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA-More from Dave
« Reply #997 on: Jul 22nd, 2007, 3:39pm »

on Jul 22nd, 2007, 3:36pm, onthefence55 wrote:
You have taken the JPEG compressed image from the UFOCasebook news page. That image was heavily compressed to reduce bandwidth. JPEG artifacting shows up as square blotches very much like what you saw. I have just taken that same image (from the UFOCasebook news page) and performed a simple threshold test to show that the blotches appear there.

If you had taken the time to read the forum and hunt down the original Hi-res image that was supplied by Linda Moutlon Howe then you would have come to this conclusion; the large image contain virtually no compression artifacts as shown by the threshold test.

Please log onto the forum.

I suggest you use simple tools that are fully understood rather than complex "FIX PHOTOGRAPH" tools that may add to the error.


I didn't even think about him doing that. I assumed he was using the hi-res photo to begin with, which is why when I loaded up my hi-res and checked it and got nothing like that, I was sitting here puzzled wondering what levels he changed, and filters he used.... good catch!

Edit: I just took the hires, and the lores photo (from the casebook story page) and can confirm the results. The hires photo does not distort through several filters and level adjustments, but the lores photo pixelates and shows artifacting VERY much like that shown in Dave's photo.
« Last Edit: Jul 22nd, 2007, 3:53pm by CentralScrutinizer » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #998 on: Jul 22nd, 2007, 3:39pm »

Hey, when someone blasts in and whips out the PHd card you know this thread is going to hold them accountable for their remarks.
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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA-More from Dave
« Reply #999 on: Jul 22nd, 2007, 3:40pm »

on Jul 22nd, 2007, 1:39pm, B J Booth wrote:
If a computer was taken back only 100 years into the past, to 1907, would anyone have been able to figure out what it was or how it worked without a power supply? Yet, Isaac claims that they had technology vastly ahead of anything we have, and they could were able to figure out how to turn it on and off, and what it was.

Tisk tisk, Mr. Scientist. This is fallacious reasoning... you present an allegorical situation and cite it as just cause for some conclusion against another set of premises... Skipped Philosophy of Science class on the way to that PhD? wink


on Jul 22nd, 2007, 1:39pm, B J Booth wrote:
Also the security on real artifacts would be so tight that no ordinary person would be allowed make photocopies of pages of manuals.

I'm pretty sure we've had some people that have actually worked in highly classified environments chime in on this already, stating that over time, and in a 'compartmentalized' environment, Isaac's claims about security and smuggling seem plausible. (Citing their opinion is an acceptable appeal to authority if we accept their claims as true).

I'm not trying to poo-poo what you're saying... just giving it the same scrutiny we have to give the people who come forth with 'evidence' of extraterrestrial contact.
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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #1000 on: Jul 22nd, 2007, 3:46pm »

Ok all, enough said. I'm going to ask all of you to edit your derogatory comments regarding Dave.

At the bottom of his email he said the following.

Quote:
Maybe some hard-core graphics experts can tell me what I did, but it looks like the strange object has rectangular blocks of pixels around it that are unlike a normal picture taken of the sky. I think you don't see it in the normal image because white getting whiter isn't as evident as a slight shade of light grey getting lighter.


Please tell me why everyone wants to rag on him. Please backspace out some of your comments and we'll all go on but honestly, he asked something of you all. He didn't just throw it in the forums face so let's respect him for that.

I think what it is, is that we're so uptight from all the other ones that come in with things that are settled or one liner nonsense from a new member that hasn't read the threads yet, etc. Everyone's on edge. grin grin

We'll all laugh about it tomorrow.
« Last Edit: Jul 22nd, 2007, 3:51pm by oljack666 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #1001 on: Jul 22nd, 2007, 3:47pm »

I would like to clarify my posts on the previous page, just to be certain I did not leave the wrong impression. I guess I took the long route to making an assertion/question.
That is: it appears to me that NO photograph will EVER be sufficient to prove anything to everyone. I hope no one thought I was ragging on skeptics or anything like that. I just get confused by those constant naysayers who say: that picture is of poor quality, so it's useless; then follow up with-that picture is too good, it's useless. They come from a point which is more honestly stated as:
We will believe NO photograph. Period.
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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #1002 on: Jul 22nd, 2007, 3:48pm »

ATO, I totally agree on posting all opinions, and we certainly have. I think if "Dave" would have posted here directly the reaction would have been quite different. The experts that have been painstakingly working on these images would have answered his concerns as honestly as possible and we all would have learned something.

In addition to our crew here, Dave might want to research this thread:
http://lucianarchy.proboards21.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=cali1&thread=1184881399&page=3

The non-post sent to BJ was, in my opinion, no different than those that breeze in, make a proclamation and leave. I question whether these individuals really want to engage in a discussion.

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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #1003 on: Jul 22nd, 2007, 3:49pm »

on Jul 22nd, 2007, 3:46pm, Atrueoriginall wrote:
he asked something of you all. He didn't just throw it in the forums face so let's respect him for that.

I think what it is, is that we're so uptight from all the other ones that come in with things that are settled or one lines nonsense from a new member that hasn't read the threads yet, etc. Everyone's on edge. grin grin

We'll all laugh about it tomorrow.


A point well taken, ATO. Very well said---if I contributed to a nasty tone, my apologies to one and all.
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xx Re: #3 THE DRONE ENIGMA- A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE T
« Reply #1004 on: Jul 22nd, 2007, 3:53pm »

on Jul 22nd, 2007, 3:10pm, MarkM wrote:
I have to disagree with the assertion that someones background is not relevant to the "evidence" that they present. It's extremely relevant to their credibility, that's why lawyers call in experts to testify in trials.

Absolutely. If someone is an expert in a field and they present an objective evaluation related to that field then that should carry weight.

Noone is an expert on everything, but when a true expert comes forward with and objective and thorough analysis of a piece of evidence, we should certainly be giving it more weight than (even well thought out) musings of others.

I think part of the problem with this topic is that we've had conflicting 'expert testimony' on things like the authenticity of the photos... Again, if it's a hoax, some of it is uncommonly well thought-out and executed.
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