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Gort
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #1110 on: Sep 28th, 2007, 2:40pm »

on Sep 28th, 2007, 09:56am, 3rdman wrote:
Hello again everybody: I appreciate the comparisons within the Photoshop program. I am curious as to what John Knoll the creator of Photoshop and the CG movie software Shake would have to say about all of this. Our 3D artists ere on the side of a more muscular program like Maya if any of these photos were created from the ground up. Again, I would be helpful if the original camera negative and the uncompressed raw files were available for analysis. A pixel by pixel comparison between foreground and background images would go a long way to determining the authenticity of some of these photos. Such an analysis would include color temperature, compression differences (if any) grain structure, focus depth, chromatic aberration, digital noise, etc. etc. At this point I've become interested in the MUFON report done last May. Not that I trust MUFON's handling of this case, but have they ever posted their findings? And yes, I know they have their own CG posse. So that's why I am forever calling for independent analysis of all the data to date.
In response to earlier postings as to the cost and effort by someone to have hired their own CG team of artists to create some of the Drone imagery. Yes, it could be expensive, but not necessarily prohibitive. Our 3D artists filled a 30,000 seat stadium with digital crowds using Massive software in about 7 weeks. Shots like these run into the tens of thousands of dollars for as little as 20 seconds of footage. That doesn't include the set-up costs on the set to shoot the stadium. That's not stills, but moving images for theatrical release. 2D work like rig removal or set enhancement in the hands of a good artist can be done fairly cheaply; perhaps less than 2K. But remember, in Hollywood we charge by the frame! It all depends on what you want and need to do. Anyway, just wanted to throw in my 2-cents today. Would love to know if anybody has seen that MUFON report. If I've missed it let me know.
Thanks gang and all the best! -- 3rdman

p.s. as far as Jimmy Durante is concerned my favorite quote of his is: "Dis club is open from 8:00 till unconscious



As best I can tell all that MUFON was provided were pictures forwarded through an email. Subsequent attempts at further contact were futile.

Latitude did the work on this.

The conclusion on whatever was scrutinized, including review by Bruce S. Maccabee, Ph,D, was cgi. No further contact. So I would not consider it an “investigation” but rather an opinion on the photos, that’s all. They may be doing more but who knows?

posted way back some where, I had to search gort, at least I don’t have too many posts


Hi Steven,

I am wondering if you would be willing clarify your stance on this issue?

1) How was it ascertained that Chad and Raj were the same person?

Comparing Email & IP addresses with what little was shared by the witness in the CMS case file and sources at 'OpenMindsForum.com' forum. (A large web forum that is everything but open minded!)

2) This weather report for that location and day seems to conflict with your info. http://tinyurl.com/2xert6

We used the National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration. Using visual, water vapor, and infrared images. These images were viewed during the ENTIRE 24 hour period on the date in question. The weather in other so called alleged sightings, the weather appeared consistent with the hoaxed images. The only sighting where there was a conflict was with images showing clear skies, while the weather was overcast and raining in Capitola. I remembered the weather too, as I live not far from this location. See - http://www.noaa.gov/

3) I have seen reports from just as many CGI experts who say the photos are legit. Can the discrepancies in the photos be clearly illustrated and quantified? I have looked for the examples of radiosity and mottling but cannot see any correlation to CGI manipulation.

The 4 sources of which were two from outside MUFON in the special effects industry (one did work time to time for the History channels 'UFO Files'), and later with permission from Mufon, our own Mufon photo consultants, Dr. Bruce Macabee, and Mr. Jeff Sainio. It was felt important for MUFON experts to also verify the other experts to either confirm or dispute everyone's findings. The result was unanimous the images were fakes. Interestingly, peer review brought out new different reasons among the main reasons they were regarded as hoaxes. So apparently, there are a number of 'red flags' as to why the images are untruthful being claimed to be authentic. The analysis was objective, knowing all these experts opinions lean toward that UFO's being likely alien craft. Two of the outside experts are even possible abductees, so their 'slant' if anything is pre-existing.... it is towards UFO's being extraterrestrial in a very personal way. Still, the outside Mufon experts emphatically stated they were most definitely bogus.

4) What was the extent of your investigation into this case?

I did research for my state director checking the Capitola and Lake Tahoe sightings. Only the Lake Tahoe report was actually submitted to Mufon. The other reports were not. I only became involved when a report was submitted to the MUFON CMS. With actual personal information then available (only an email address) a follow up was possible compared to the other sightings. I write again...the so called witness gave only an email address to follow up with.

5) Did Mufon ever contact the "Tahoe wife" witness from Mufon case #7013?

Yes, I personally emailed myself the woman several times. They never replied.

6) Did Chad ever contact Mufon? How was his last name deciphered?

'A Chad' did not contact Mufon. His information was forwarded to us via a contact (and confirming myself) at the so called 'Open Mindsforum.com' web site.

7) Why are Chad's images attached to Mufon case # 7013?

For comparison purposes. Are you a Mufon Investigator having access?

8) Were any other witnesses contacted by Mufon?

Yes, no one wished to reply to me or to Mufon about this case.

Thanks

I cannot comment further. Other theories are being pursued. Including one that the images were internet sub advertizing for a new computer game. Another it is an elaborate goverment disinformation campaign to undermind credibility regarding the earlier dramatic Chicago O'Hare report that capitivated the world. The case is now being pursued by others in Mufon. Frankly I had too many more active, interesting, and promising cases to check out. A close encounter, and a abduction case. As one effects expert we contacted outside of Mufon stated...."the fakes were not even good fakes."

Steve
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #1111 on: Sep 28th, 2007, 2:41pm »

on Sep 28th, 2007, 2:26pm, VonStern wrote:
Latitude wrote:

This illustrates a drone movement.


Latitude, compare the leaves on top of the branches....

I think the camera was tilted. (Slightly to the left)

If the drone is moving along it's axes, a slight tilt of a handheld camera would make this illusion.

Again, I might be wrong, it's open to what one makes of it.

VonStern



What's not shown in my cropped pics is the building to the left which is straight. BTW, if you want to be blown away check out the shadows on the building and compare those with the shadows on the drone.
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #1112 on: Sep 28th, 2007, 2:41pm »

Well, now we know that the drones tilts! grin

The question remains: Why?

If we assume (I like this word) that the Drones visit worlds that has'nt an atmosphere like our Earth, would they tilt?

In no atmosphere at all - do they have to?

Can it be, that they do it because they are in our type of atmosphere?

Brings new questions to the stand....perhaps someone who knows aerodynamics has a clue, it might just be the answer. Even if the drones are levitating through the ways of antigravity, they maybe have to consider wind drift also? And compensate for it? By tilting?

Who knows?

--VonStern

« Last Edit: Sep 28th, 2007, 5:01pm by VonStern » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #1113 on: Sep 28th, 2007, 2:49pm »

on Sep 28th, 2007, 1:13pm, WT wrote:
It could also mean: "Pull this lever to activate high-frequency-sound-generator to free ship from gravity attraction."


I like that

in other words aw shoot
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #1114 on: Sep 28th, 2007, 3:04pm »

on Sep 28th, 2007, 2:40pm, Gort wrote:
As best I can tell all that MUFON was provided were pictures forwarded through an email. Subsequent attempts at further contact were futile.

Latitude did the work on this.

The conclusion on whatever was scrutinized, including review by Bruce S. Maccabee, Ph,D, was cgi. No further contact. So I would not consider it an “investigation” but rather an opinion on the photos, that’s all. They may be doing more but who knows?

posted way back some where, I had to search gort, at least I don’t have too many posts


Hi Steven,

I am wondering if you would be willing clarify your stance on this issue?

1) How was it ascertained that Chad and Raj were the same person?

Comparing Email & IP addresses with what little was shared by the witness in the CMS case file and sources at 'OpenMindsForum.com' forum. (A large web forum that is everything but open minded!)

2) This weather report for that location and day seems to conflict with your info. http://tinyurl.com/2xert6

We used the National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration. Using visual, water vapor, and infrared images. These images were viewed during the ENTIRE 24 hour period on the date in question. The weather in other so called alleged sightings, the weather appeared consistent with the hoaxed images. The only sighting where there was a conflict was with images showing clear skies, while the weather was overcast and raining in Capitola. I remembered the weather too, as I live not far from this location. See - http://www.noaa.gov/

3) I have seen reports from just as many CGI experts who say the photos are legit. Can the discrepancies in the photos be clearly illustrated and quantified? I have looked for the examples of radiosity and mottling but cannot see any correlation to CGI manipulation.

The 4 sources of which were two from outside MUFON in the special effects industry (one did work time to time for the History channels 'UFO Files'), and later with permission from Mufon, our own Mufon photo consultants, Dr. Bruce Macabee, and Mr. Jeff Sainio. It was felt important for MUFON experts to also verify the other experts to either confirm or dispute everyone's findings. The result was unanimous the images were fakes. Interestingly, peer review brought out new different reasons among the main reasons they were regarded as hoaxes. So apparently, there are a number of 'red flags' as to why the images are untruthful being claimed to be authentic. The analysis was objective, knowing all these experts opinions lean toward that UFO's being likely alien craft. Two of the outside experts are even possible abductees, so their 'slant' if anything is pre-existing.... it is towards UFO's being extraterrestrial in a very personal way. Still, the outside Mufon experts emphatically stated they were most definitely bogus.

4) What was the extent of your investigation into this case?

I did research for my state director checking the Capitola and Lake Tahoe sightings. Only the Lake Tahoe report was actually submitted to Mufon. The other reports were not. I only became involved when a report was submitted to the MUFON CMS. With actual personal information then available (only an email address) a follow up was possible compared to the other sightings. I write again...the so called witness gave only an email address to follow up with.

5) Did Mufon ever contact the "Tahoe wife" witness from Mufon case #7013?

Yes, I personally emailed myself the woman several times. They never replied.

6) Did Chad ever contact Mufon? How was his last name deciphered?

'A Chad' did not contact Mufon. His information was forwarded to us via a contact (and confirming myself) at the so called 'Open Mindsforum.com' web site.

7) Why are Chad's images attached to Mufon case # 7013?

For comparison purposes. Are you a Mufon Investigator having access?

8) Were any other witnesses contacted by Mufon?

Yes, no one wished to reply to me or to Mufon about this case.

Thanks

I cannot comment further. Other theories are being pursued. Including one that the images were internet sub advertizing for a new computer game. Another it is an elaborate goverment disinformation campaign to undermind credibility regarding the earlier dramatic Chicago O'Hare report that capitivated the world. The case is now being pursued by others in Mufon. Frankly I had too many more active, interesting, and promising cases to check out. A close encounter, and a abduction case. As one effects expert we contacted outside of Mufon stated...."the fakes were not even good fakes."

Steve


Gort,

I am so glad you brought this up. I was considering posting about the outcome of this little episode. It's not pretty.

Yes, I registered at Steve's web forum UFOresearchers.com. Above is one of the responses from Steve to my inquiry. I went on to show him two more weather reports that show absolutely no rain the day of the Capitola sighting (one from his source the NOOA. He evidently does not know how to look up weather history on their website or refuses to). They also showed a 9 mile visibility and only .02 inches of rain the entire month of May and that happened on the first few days. There was no rain withing weeks of the 17th.

He never responded to that so I investigated his claim that Chad and Raj having the same IP address. It was OMF and C2C who worked together on that issue as sighted by Steve. I remembered something about OMF's admins discovering similarities in the IP addresses so I went into the archives of omf to get the straight story. It was confusing in that they initially claimed there was a similarity but later claim there wasn't. I asked OMF admins to make a final statement to clear up the ip address issue once and for all. I was told the was never a similarity and any previous claims of a similarity were cause by a miscommunication between OMF and C2C.

I posted this to Steve's forum and was banned the next day without an explanation. Also my post about the IP addresses, which was completely civil, respectful and within forum guidelines, was deleted. I sent an email to Steve asking why I was banned and the email bounced back to me three days later.

This guy is obviously lying about the facts, but why?
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #1115 on: Sep 28th, 2007, 3:24pm »

I think they tilt because they vector their thrust…however that thrust is produced. And use the paddle to maintain stability and direction. It may have dual use also…but that is just supposition also.

Its been said…here… that we can’t apply basic laws of aerodynamics to a technology that we don’t understand. Or that we..as humans…are like cattle trying to understand the workings of an automobile. I disagree with those assumptions.

Just because a technology is more advanced, does not mean that technology wouldn’t conform or use some of the most basic laws. Every theory put forth here is as valid as the next. Its all suppostion based on analysis of photos and witness descriptions in any case.

Is it anti-gravity or utilizing the earths’ magnetic field and traveling along ley lines? Or a combination of both? Or something completely different. We don’t know. But what we do know is that the drones tilt and they move…so I would say its fair assumption that the 2 are related somehow.

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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #1116 on: Sep 28th, 2007, 3:50pm »

on Sep 28th, 2007, 3:04pm, Latitude wrote:
Gort,

I am so glad you brought this up. I was considering posting about the outcome of this little episode. It's not pretty.

Yes, I registered at Steve's web forum UFOresearchers.com. Above is one of the responses from Steve to my inquiry. I went on to show him two more weather reports that show absolutely no rain the day of the Capitola sighting (one from his source the NOOA. He evidently does not know how to look up weather history on their website or refuses to). They also showed a 9 mile visibility and only .02 inches of rain the entire month of May and that happened on the first few days. There was no rain withing weeks of the 17th.

He never responded to that so I investigated his claim that Chad and Raj having the same IP address. It was OMF and C2C who worked together on that issue as sighted by Steve. I remembered something about OMF's admins discovering similarities in the IP addresses so I went into the archives of omf to get the straight story. It was confusing in that they initially claimed there was a similarity but later claim there wasn't. I asked OMF admins to make a final statement to clear up the ip address issue once and for all. I was told the was never a similarity and any previous claims of a similarity were cause by a miscommunication between OMF and C2C.

I posted this to Steve's forum and was banned the next day without an explanation. Also my post about the IP addresses, which was completely civil, respectful and within forum guidelines, was deleted. I sent an email to Steve asking why I was banned and the email bounced back to me three days later.

This guy is obviously lying about the facts, but why?


Latitude, I'm sorry to hear that. I can't speak for Mufon or any representatives. I did get the impression though that not only were Steve's hands tied but it was out of his hands altogether. There are probably higher-ups pulling strings.
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #1117 on: Sep 28th, 2007, 3:55pm »

MUFON has a hierarchy!!! Why? OMFers got something wrong? How is that possible!!! rolleyes grin grin grin grin
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #1118 on: Sep 28th, 2007, 5:27pm »

I am curious, how do we know these pictures were not taken during different times of the year, like summer, winter, etc. then developed all at once..This is a project that appears a long time in the making, assuming of course its a model or cgi. would that account for the disparities between weather at time and photos?.
Thanx. If disinfo is involved..heck we have a real problem..I am surprised at mufon and all the others confusion..something does not feel right. I enjoy your line of thinking and you may be onto something here.

Latitude.. I thought I read there was some conflict with the weather and Isaac pix, even if not..could the pictures have been taken at different points through out the year..as opposed to a cluster in one mont period let's say..My second question would be if anti gravity device is used..would not there be some distortion of light around or under craft..as grav..or anti grav.. bends light..the effect would be similar to a thermal coming off a sidewalk during a hot day. I would predict..absent that the energy must be sound/or a form of reverse electromagnetism..would it not?
the movement of craft whether model or real hovering would have to compensate for rotation of Earth also..or it would appear moving away..
does that clarify my question and pardon for slipping the others in
Thanx







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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #1119 on: Sep 28th, 2007, 5:46pm »

on Sep 28th, 2007, 5:27pm, TeachersPet wrote:
I am curious, how do we know these pictures were not taken during different times of the year, like summer, winter, etc. then developed all at once..This is a project that appears a long time in the making, assuming of course its a model or cgi. would that account for the disparities between weather at time and photos?.


I don't understand your question. What specific disparities are you asking about? Explain in detail.
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #1120 on: Sep 28th, 2007, 5:49pm »

on Sep 28th, 2007, 09:45am, Marvin wrote:
Interesting that a Marine would be there, since the Army Air Force supplied the field personal out of RAAF.

There is no obvious reason for the "Marine" to be camera shy on a classified film. The whole purpose of the film is to document everything. You are only camera shy if you are planing t




o release this highly secret film? rolleyes

The belt is what bothered me, it seems officer?ish? to me (if it is even correct for the time period):

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This is an Marine NCO (wearing a belt) from that time frame, and it is probably what a private would wear. The uniform in the film just does not seem to be correct to me. Maybe we have some late 40s Vets that can resolve this issue?



Hey Marvin:

What can anyone say to you? Maybe his tie is not tied correctly or what about his shoe shine.
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Mmm, yes, very curious, very interesting....


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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #1121 on: Sep 28th, 2007, 6:17pm »

on Sep 28th, 2007, 5:49pm, urantia606 wrote:
Hey Marvin:

What can anyone say to you? Maybe his tie is not tied correctly or what about his shoe shine.


Obviously you’re not "gung ho." Then you wouldn’t be showing your ignorance. If that was a Marine in the autopsy film, I guarantee his a** would be squared away if he is going to be on film to be presented to upper brass… his belt, his tie, heck… his finger nails would be more perfect than Vanna White’s. You can take that to the bank. wink
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #1122 on: Sep 28th, 2007, 6:18pm »

on Sep 28th, 2007, 2:20pm, Marvin wrote:
Latitude, this one is a bit tricky.

When looking for vectors or directional movement, there appears to be a number of things happening (assuming they are in the correct order- I am not questioning you on this). If the first photo is on the left and the second it on the right, and 23 seconds have elapsed… it would seem the drone is more like hovering and rotating than making any drastic or describable movement, except to say that it get closer to the trees.

If you examine the other photos, at least my guess was that the paddle or wing is the port side and (on our left above) and the strange double configuration facing us is the aft section. That was the feeling I got from the other posted photos (if they are in order) as the drone passes over the telephone pole. What are your thoughts?
with this I like to ask,from how high the drone was in the sky it would have to be using inteligents to spot raj,taking a picture of it .also when it came close to the power lines it had since enough not to crash into the wires,and to date no pilot control,makes me wonder ET can give a machine the power to think .with out pushing buttons or keep on atimer,this one is more mind confusing as I sit reading from you guys posts.i think holly wood would have paid millions for a hoaxs if it was which it is not,cause in my thinking about the drones are more powerful than I can post,just whish I could have went the school at ET tech at the university of orion. grin
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #1123 on: Sep 28th, 2007, 6:31pm »

on Sep 28th, 2007, 3:24pm, Raf wrote:
............. Just because a technology is more advanced, does not mean that technology wouldn’t conform or use some of the most basic laws. .....


I agree -- I think that there are basic universal laws that God created, and that however complex they may seem, it sometimes is something very similar.... take E=Mc2 -- a pretty simple equation to a very complex law.

Just because they are ET, and more advanced, doesn't mean we couldn't figure this out!! After all, we probably have their technology already anyway, so we basically already have the ingredients to the cookies smiley

There is probably some very simple explanation to the technology behind the drones, and to the Linguistics Primers as well... we here at this forum just don't know what that is YET smiley wink
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #1124 on: Sep 28th, 2007, 6:42pm »

on Sep 28th, 2007, 1:07pm, VonStern wrote:
The diagrams of the BB drone (and the ligustic primers of Isaac, which probably was to find inside the main ring) might just be star maps written for this "excavating journey" they might be on, showing known star constellations as seen from the earth. Much like our GPS-system.



May I interject that the Global Positioning System (GPS) does not use star maps. The GPS satellites transmit L-Band Code Division Multiple Access (CDMA) signals continuously along with the satellite ephemerides. Your GPS receiver uses that information from four or more satellites to compute its unique 3D location plus GPS time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gps

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