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oljack666
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #345 on: Sep 8th, 2007, 7:51pm »

on Sep 8th, 2007, 7:36pm, Saladfingers wrote:
Unfortunately, you read them with the opinion you have


I don't have an opinion about you, just your actions.

Quote:
I don't understand why you had to get so dramatic about all this.

I'm not dramatic whatsoever. I'm angry! I'm angry that you won't let everyone go on about what it was they were doing there. You put the stopper in it for OMF. Sure, their admin could give a hoot but that doesn't mean anything. They won't grow with that kind of attitude is all.

Why don't you instead answer my questions. There were I think 9 of them. You didn't really answer one of them. I'll finish the rest of this post when you're done answering them one at a time.

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oljack666
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #346 on: Sep 8th, 2007, 7:52pm »

on Sep 8th, 2007, 7:36pm, Saladfingers wrote:
Unfortunately, you read them with the opinion you have

I don't have an opinion about you, just your actions.
Quote:
I don't understand why you had to get so dramatic about all this.

I'm not dramatic whatsoever. I'm angry! I'm angry that you won't let everyone go on about what it was they were doing there. You put the stopper in it for OMF. Sure, their admin could give a hoot but that doesn't mean anything. They won't grow with that kind of attitude is all.

Why don't you instead answer my questions. There were I think 9 of them. You didn't really answer one of them. I'll finish the rest of this post when you're done answering them one at a time.

« Last Edit: Sep 8th, 2007, 7:53pm by oljack666 » User IP Logged

interocitor
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #347 on: Sep 8th, 2007, 7:55pm »

NO, I AM NOT LEVIATHAN TO ALL WHO WANT TO KNOW, BUT IN THE BEGINNING THIS GUY WAS RIGHT. HE NEW EXACTLY WHAT CLEVER LITTLE SALAD WAS ABOUT ANT IT IS PROVED. This guy has started the same thing with the Isaac devices and apologizes that they are not quite right or not very good , but just give him enough time and they will be. That statement flies in the face of any real logic. The "hoaxer" got them right to begin with. Get the latest edition of 3D World Magazine and take a close look at the ILM models for Transformers, they are grossly inferior to the drones. Don't take my word get up and go get um. I got um. I have sat and listened to this debunking stupidity for months. If the original drones are CG, no one has come close to duplicating them down to the worn gold plating and look of the other metal casing. The tied back thin wires on the top rig are unbelievable and they change position from photo to photo. If you expect the aliens to land on the White House Lawn, when they are capable of technology far beyond us, you are strange. Why would a truly intelligent entity want to land on the lawn of an idiot, to make an oil deal. Truth, you ain't goin to get it, because your liers are to big and skilled and accepted for what they say as opposed to what they can do. Again no I ain't LEVIATHAN, SO DON'T PULL THAT DEBUNKING AND MISDIRECTING C R A P.
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Saladfingers
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #348 on: Sep 8th, 2007, 8:00pm »

on Sep 8th, 2007, 7:35pm, interocitor wrote:
You won't find the truth, because of the careful work done by many ego ridden individuals masquerading as experts especially in the field of computer graphics. Not one of these "experts" have shown their own credentials while demanding that any witness that dares take a photo and submit it bare all. The notorious Leviathan said every word at the beginning that is now being rehashed as new at OMF. This is being said by the main suspect of the hoax himself, Salad. No, shadow I am not leviathan. In the future, no one in their right mind will dare to submit a good photo, because the "know-it-all experts" will pounce upon them like the ravining wolves they are. ATO when do you plan to ban me? Come on pm me, what madame have I done that goes against your authority?
I give myself less than 2 days.


What credentials do you want?

Listen, lets take this ugly bag of snakes and lay them out straight.

Firstly, this myth of people not sending in UFO images because the fear of them being seen as CG...

How many people that are incredibly lucky enough to see a true UFO are actually interested in Aliens and UFOs? The chances are, they will be an ordinary guy on the street.

they won't have a clue about what is or isn't happening in the investigation side of things.

If they honestly have taken something incredible.. of course they will still send it in.


Secondly. The CG issue.

It is complex. A prime example is the Haiti videos. If this hadn't been caught out, it could have fooled a lot of people. You have to factor in CG these days. In fact, not just now, but for the last 10 years!!!

It is becoming affordable to the public. You cannot plug up your ears and go LA LA LA LA LA LA >> IM NOT LISTENING LA LA LA LA LAAAA!!!

Do you know how many CG artists are out there? Thousands! Any one of them could decide to try out their skills and release an image. Without arming yourselves as to the techniques and tell tale signs, you will ed up wasting your time on images that are simply not true. It isn't about bursting bubbles, ruining peoples dreams, or anything else.
It is about finding out which evidence is real, and which is not. The evidence which is real will stand up against any tests. As Atrueoriginal has pointed out, i haven't managed to recreate the drone to the same level as the images presented. Isn't that a point towards the real sidehuh You should be pleased!

It is like someone holding on to their CD collection because they don't accept MP3s. Technology moves on, and to seriously keep up with the game you have to factor in all of the possibilities.

The drone case presents 3. Real, a real model, or CG.

All 3 angles have been argued at OMF, but CG gets the kicking, because it threatens the comfort zone.

If you ask me, the worst thing to ever happen to UFOlogy is the digital camera.. not CG. Digital photography actually enabled CG to be a possibility in this field. it is unavoidable.

So lets not stick our heads in the ground about this. We've just got to work out a good approach to how we dissern whether something IS Cg or not.

Never before have we had soch a clear, detailed and close up UFO.. EVER.. period. Never before have we had the oportunity to analyse an image at such lengths. Never before has there been a case where CG could have been such a direct possibility. Never before have we had to use techniques ..sorry.. develop techniques to find out if this is a real possibility. Never.

So it has been a massive learning curve for everyone involved.. and for some.. it has been too much or a dream breaker. It doesn't make it any less important however.
It is like learning to walk. this kind of work has never had to be done before. In what other facet of life would you need to work out if something is computer generated? Sure you may see an advert, and go I wonfder how they do that.. but you wouldnt spend any time trying to find out!

Here we have a case where it is presented as real. CG is one of 3 options, and we need to know which one it is.

Anyway.. i think I've given a rough overview of why this is important. I'm sorry that it has overwhelmed some, and made some quite disillusioned. Unfortunately, it is quite unavoidable at this point in time. it is the 21st century.. and the world is changing.. and fast!

I hope this helps.

Cheers

Kris
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oljack666
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #349 on: Sep 8th, 2007, 8:03pm »

on Sep 8th, 2007, 7:55pm, interocitor wrote:
NO, I AM NOT LEVIATHAN TO ALL WHO WANT TO KNOW, BUT IN THE BEGINNING THIS GUY WAS RIGHT. HE NEW EXACTLY WHAT CLEVER LITTLE SALAD WAS ABOUT ANT IT IS PROVED.


I forgot all about that. Oh boy! Lev will be eating this up. That's not necessarily a good thing. Oh well, such is life and then we die. That we know for sure. rolleyes
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interocitor
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #350 on: Sep 8th, 2007, 8:08pm »

AND NOW HIS ALL KNOWING SELF IS HERE, WITH THE SAME SMARMY OOZE HE SPEWED THERE. SO GOES THIS SITE. "I MUST JOIN SO THAT ALL CAN PRAISE ME FOR MY LEVEL HEADEDNESS AND ULTIMATE KNOWLEDGE OF ALL THINS CG, UFO, ETC. Let me the great salad spent time charming you away from any progressive ideas, let me show you how little you know about any subject I decide to inject my expertise into, let me become defensive to show how put upon I am when all I want to do is destroy the subject of UFOs. You will listen because I will show the clear logic of my thoughts and force you to accept them. You will do this by my use of pear pressure and my self effacing ways. I will say and charm and make special little friends that I PM and you my dear will follow. I also bring on members to the site that are my friends and they will praise my poor work. In my mind I am a master of subtlety and ally must fall under my say, you will to.

Why don't you guys give up now and watch the show to come it will be a reenactment of the OMF spectacular. Before this guy is through you will gladly say that all is CG even your mothers. Hey, don't listen to me just watch. Every new bit of evidence you get you will have to first run by Saladbreath for subtle approval or you edification that it is all CG.

GOOD LUCK, cause you will loose.
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Saladfingers
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #351 on: Sep 8th, 2007, 8:18pm »

on Sep 8th, 2007, 7:55pm, interocitor wrote:
NO, I AM NOT LEVIATHAN TO ALL WHO WANT TO KNOW, BUT IN THE BEGINNING THIS GUY WAS RIGHT. HE NEW EXACTLY WHAT CLEVER LITTLE SALAD WAS ABOUT ANT IT IS PROVED. This guy has started the same thing with the Isaac devices and apologizes that they are not quite right or not very good , but just give him enough time and they will be. That statement flies in the face of any real logic. The "hoaxer" got them right to begin with. Get the latest edition of 3D World Magazine and take a close look at the ILM models for Transformers, they are grossly inferior to the drones. Don't take my word get up and go get um. I got um. I have sat and listened to this debunking stupidity for months. If the original drones are CG, no one has come close to duplicating them down to the worn gold plating and look of the other metal casing. The tied back thin wires on the top rig are unbelievable and they change position from photo to photo. If you expect the aliens to land on the White House Lawn, when they are capable of technology far beyond us, you are strange. Why would a truly intelligent entity want to land on the lawn of an idiot, to make an oil deal. Truth, you ain't goin to get it, because your liers are to big and skilled and accepted for what they say as opposed to what they can do. Again no I ain't LEVIATHAN, SO DON'T PULL THAT DEBUNKING AND MISDIRECTING C R A P.


Clever little salad? About? I'm not about anything which you seem to infer, and I ask that you talk to me.. not about me. For all intent and purposes, you might as well be Leviathan.. as you display the exact same attitude. Hostile, judgemental, rude, not to mention accusational.

Look, you are misquoting me. If you give anything enough time, you can get it more or less perfect. Of course you can. That doesn't fly in the face of logic at all. It is common sense.

I also said that I wasn't going to try and make it perfect.. that it is for a music video I am creating that is to actually tell the story of the drone mystery. I did say that i will show the shadows, as the lighting technique I used, gives exactly the same results as what appears in the document photos. You didn't mention that did you.

Listen i really don't mind talking to you, and discussing things calmly. But all this misquoting, accusational stuff is far more detrimental to the drone case, than anything you accuse me of doing.

I think you need to take a good hard look at what you are saying. If you want to say what a great guy Leviathan was, then I think you should consider that you are backing a guy that tried to perpetrate his very own little drone hoax.

All hail the hoaxer!.. long live fantasy!.. Down with the truth... it's boring!.. Ra ra ra.

« Last Edit: Sep 8th, 2007, 8:19pm by Saladfingers » User IP Logged

interocitor
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #352 on: Sep 8th, 2007, 8:24pm »

You see just watch, go to his first posts at OMF and you will see the same pattern, No one asked for your credentials, because no one cares, this is your way of skirting the issue and instills in your audience that you are put upon. Why not shut up about yourself and keep your name out of it, because it does not satisfy what you really want. I believe you work for the government, because you in your sooo brilliant way have derailed any investigation by laying the doubt of CG. Now I do not buy your expertise, because your models and animation are fair at best. Most of your audience are not aware of that or that you subtlety changed the Alabama Drone photo when your made a "reproduction" of it. You said if given enough time, you could reproduce it with out flaw. I guess this included the flaws you introduce in to your copy of the photo. You will win with these people because it is your job, you spend far to much time on this drone/Issaac mess for it to be anything else. You will whine on and on and play the offended dogooder until they succumb to you. It is only important to me to know that your are a government agent, or the hoaxer, or a demented ego ridden person, bent on proving what. To the posters who come here you are in for the same side show OMF received from his Grace, so enjoy it. As for UFOcasebook, change the name to Salad's Praisebook. Watch I give you a month until every new siting you receive will have to pass the salad inspection. BTW this Salad is not fresh, but OMF STALE!!!!
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interocitor
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #353 on: Sep 8th, 2007, 8:34pm »

Now see how he implies that I am Leviathan. This is his tactic to derail anything I say. So compassionate to the lesser lights of this site. Same song as on OMF. If the posters here can not see the damage you have deliberately and purposefully done to any UFO report from here on out then they deserve you and will welcome you with open arms. When doe the book come out? after you convince them that Good little Salad is so misunderstood or after you bring in some of your sock puppets and stooges? What is your purpose in all this if it is not to say all is CG except what you declare is not. No one is fooled by your work and has not been so far, so what is your point. Why don't you start your own forum where those that believe you have all the smarts can meet to agree, because you hate those you disagree and will wait a long time to show that to them. I think you are a classic case o thinking you are far smarter than you are. Don't cry little Salad you will in about a week have what I believe is correct excised from this record. In the end you will win as you did at OMF and as they do not know you run the show there, well............................................
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Saladfingers
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #354 on: Sep 8th, 2007, 8:35pm »

on Sep 8th, 2007, 8:08pm, interocitor wrote:
AND NOW HIS ALL KNOWING SELF IS HERE, WITH THE SAME SMARMY OOZE HE SPEWED THERE. SO GOES THIS SITE. "I MUST JOIN SO THAT ALL CAN PRAISE ME FOR MY LEVEL HEADEDNESS AND ULTIMATE KNOWLEDGE OF ALL THINS CG, UFO, ETC. Let me the great salad spent time charming you away from any progressive ideas, let me show you how little you know about any subject I decide to inject my expertise into, let me become defensive to show how put upon I am when all I want to do is destroy the subject of UFOs. You will listen because I will show the clear logic of my thoughts and force you to accept them. You will do this by my use of pear pressure and my self effacing ways. I will say and charm and make special little friends that I PM and you my dear will follow. I also bring on members to the site that are my friends and they will praise my poor work. In my mind I am a master of subtlety and ally must fall under my say, you will to.

Why don't you guys give up now and watch the show to come it will be a reenactment of the OMF spectacular. Before this guy is through you will gladly say that all is CG even your mothers. Hey, don't listen to me just watch. Every new bit of evidence you get you will have to first run by Saladbreath for subtle approval or you edification that it is all CG.

GOOD LUCK, cause you will loose.


Loose?.. loose what? Loosen my belt?

Well, actually, I'd like to think people can make their own minds up. I don't think I can force anyone to think anything. If that is what has happened to you then I guess you must be weak willed. I hope that isn't the case.

I guess the abuse of me must be in the forum rules here now. So much for mutual respect. You keep going... it really doesn't bother me non.

For the record for anyone vieing this very sad character assasination...

Please do as has been suggested by the originator of this attack. Read my posts at OMF. Decide for yourself if I am this bizarre demon. I really don't think that I have to sit here and reply to this misquoted and, quite simply.. incorrect garbage being spouted at me.
It is sad really, because inadvertedly, 'Atrueoriginal' and Interocitor' are actually calling all of you lot stupid! They are saying that you lot out there can't think for yourselves, ..can't make your own minds up, and aren't able to come to your own conclusions. How insulting can it get. What heros you both are.

If that is actually how you feel.. then I don't think I actully want to waste my time on you. I've got a hell of a lot more respect for others than clearly you do.

If anyone wants to talk to me about their concerns, and how the CG side of things should be handled in an investigation, I am all ears.

Take care all

Kris


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oljack666
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #355 on: Sep 8th, 2007, 8:37pm »

on Sep 8th, 2007, 8:08pm, interocitor wrote:
GOOD LUCK, cause you will loose.


Not this kid. My guns are loaded.

Kris, you look at things in a different perspective then myself and many others. Especially others that spend time in here and not OMF necessarily since we are more directly involved in ufology and aliens whereas they are not so much. They have a little here and a little there but this is our gig and the reason why is because we have a different atmosphere and it's 90% alien/UFO oriented in one way or another. As opposed to multi-topic.

Also, we all need to tone it down so from here on out, especially since you're present, no condescending tones, derogatory or sarcastic comments from one member to another, which of course includes myself and others.

You saw or rather you think you saw a UFO out of the corner of your eye and you sat down and figured out that it was a UFO based on 1/10th of a second glimpse. Now how does that really sound to someone. Do you have any other UFO experience you can fall back on other then that one?

What I see though is that you don't care about ufology. If you did, you wouldn't be standing in their way. Worse yet, what about those out there with more important issues then ufology. Do you think that they like to see the likes of CGI artists in the UFO forums? We have a connection to UFOs and aliens that you do not have. For many of us they turned our lives completely upside down from the day it happened until a fraction of a second ago because it's ongoing and never stops. Ufologists think the same way even though their experience may have just been a sighting. Just the same, would they mind seeing someone spend his days in a UFO/alien oriented website showing off his wares in regard to CGI? The answer is no. Absolutely none of them.

Our trek in trying to discover recent UFO activity is almost futile due to CGI and the likes of CGI artists. What is wrong with just backing out? Why do you want to add insult to injury? We've had hoaxes in the past but nothing like today. By today, I mean daily and every day.

So, we wait and we watch and we read (and input) whatever we have to relieve the fears of others that are going through some of the same things us abductees went through. We watch the skys, I watch the forum and I see what changes have taken place. Meanwhile, we're having to what?! Put up with what? CGI. Why? Why should be have to. Our job is tough enough already.

BJ's got everything he can to report a story these days and CGI has to sit in his mind every time he opens up another email. He doesn't appreciate what's happened nor does any other UFO/alien website.

Again, OMF is the exception to the rule. That certainly needs to change but with their present admin I doubt it will. They're forum is all about having an open mind, well I wonder why they're not open to the idea that by them allowing you to push your CGI in there that they're hurting the whole ufo community. I know they are and I know you are. Only you don't realize it or won't accept it.

Here, you do the math. This is only four months and 8 days of UFO articles BJ has put together. Look at it and you'll see now why it's such a pain in the be-hind.
http://ufocasebook.conforums.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=reports&num=1148913265&start=15
« Last Edit: Sep 8th, 2007, 9:04pm by oljack666 » User IP Logged

MarkM
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #356 on: Sep 8th, 2007, 8:37pm »

ATO, I totally understand your anger and frustration. I share in your concerns and mourn the arrival of this new debunking tool. Having said that, CGI is here to stay and Kris is right in stating that it is now and will forever on be, a part of the investigative equation.

Creative people respond to a challenge by becoming more creative. Exceeding expectations is what it's all about - I know. Kris, the only criticism I have for you is a lack of forethought. In responding to the creative challenge, you created a monster. Only you can say, in hindsight, if you would have acted any differently. I don't know you so I can't assign any motives - good or bad. I have a feeling, though, that you got stuck in a loop. You were in the right place at the wrong time, and here we are. Someone had to throw open the gates and I guess you drew the short straw.

So what do we do now? I can only speak for myself. I was a believer in UFO's and ET contact long before the drones buzzed California. That's not going to change or be shaken by anything short of God telling me it ain't so. One thing that has frustrated me from the very beginning is the perception on the part of so many people that this is all about the hardware. It's not. In fact, some of the most compelling evidence in this drama is not photographic or mechanical, it's human - what people like Shirley saw, what they felt, how they responded. Don't just look at the pictures, go into the Earthfiles archives and listen to the words.

You know - LMH is the one person, even more so than Isaac, who could really lay many of these analysis issues to rest. Pity that doesn't seem to be in her plans. I think it's unconscionable that she has had no mention on her site of anything about this in weeks. She should have said that she was still in touch with Isaac, she should be sharing the info that she has from her engineering experts. If you're looking for a villain in this saga, she's it. Blurring the truth with CGI creations and withholding the truth with intent are two very different things. The first we will all have to live with, the second we should never accept.
« Last Edit: Sep 8th, 2007, 8:44pm by MarkM » User IP Logged

interocitor
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #357 on: Sep 8th, 2007, 8:43pm »

I don't give a damn about Leviathan, all he said at the beginning, read it for yourself, was what you were doing. Now at OMF many of the things this strange bird said are being repeated as if he never said them.
I don't care about it, but I dread seeing the wonderful and needed UFO experience reduced to an eternal CG argument at sites such as this. That is what it now is. Some of the people working on the Isaac Docs have done good and unbiased work, but if Isaac ever comes back after this, I will believe he is a hoaxer. Why would a sane person want to be run through this mill.

Now folks back to the Salad Show. He will wait a while and come running back with a nice prepared script for you all to follow and be in awe of. Have fun while you are watching the show. If you are interested in what I said, I suggest you read it quick and then prepare for the next big CG adventure.
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oljack666
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #358 on: Sep 8th, 2007, 8:43pm »

on Sep 8th, 2007, 8:37pm, MarkM wrote:
Having said that, CGI is here to stay and Kris is right in stating that it is now and will forever on be, a part of the investigative equation.


Then we all learn how to use it by going out and buying the software. What we don't do is learn about CGI in the forums because you cannot. Instead, it's being promoted and giving hundreds of kids ideas to go out and do it too.

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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #359 on: Sep 8th, 2007, 9:07pm »

LOL! Creating convincing CG images is a complex and time consuming process and top notch software isn't cheap. it's not the "kids" we have to worry about.

Breath and think about this for a minute... although some CGI is phenomenal, the majority - even that found in mega-budget Hollywood movies - is lacking one very important element, life. It's "soulless" for lack of a better word. Look at what Kris has done, then look at the BB hi res photo. Do you see (or is it feel) what I mean? the CGI is very pretty and impressive, perfect even. But for all it's 3D rendering it's still flat. What we need to do is learn to see with more than just our eyes. Can you feel the truth when you look at a photograph? It is possible , and with far more accuracy than one might think.

We can only move forward. Either we learn these "new" observational skills, or we throw up our hands in frustration.
« Last Edit: Sep 8th, 2007, 9:07pm by MarkM » User IP Logged

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