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Latitude
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #375 on: Sep 9th, 2007, 10:14am »

I have to admit that I never learned one thing about CGI from Saladfingers. I never saw him try to teach anybody at omf how the drones could have been made with cgi. He always talked that he would one day do an article exposing the tell tail signs of CGI in the photos but never did. If he never found a CGI smoking gun why didn't he report that?

Salad could have been a major asset for OMF as a impartial CGI analyst. He could have been used to check claims of cgi hoax that were made by Biedny, Ritzman and Steve from Mufon. But he never did those things. Everything he ever did was a partisan effort to destroy the drone case. His actions prove he never was interested in research.

« Last Edit: Sep 9th, 2007, 10:15am by Latitude » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #376 on: Sep 9th, 2007, 10:31am »

I vote that we take what we've learned and move on. We've all voiced our concerns - I think we're in agreement (regardless of what side of the drone fence we've landed on) that CGI will play a big role in photo analysis from this point on.

What we really need the pros to do is to identify the most likely clues that point to a CG image. We know that differences between the two do exist, no matter how "invisible" they may seem. We need a screening method, software that that does a point by point study based on certain digital criteria. This is where CGI experts can provide an invaluable service to UFO investigation. I have no doubt that such software will be developed - good money for someone. UFO research won't be the only area that a tool such as this would be instrumental.

For now, just as party lanterns in the UK have become the new "swamp gas", CGI has replaced the "pie pan tossed in the sky". Times may change but people who refuse to consider the possibility of real UFO's and ET never do. There will always be some way to explain sightings and images away - just as long as there are people who don't want to believe.
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #377 on: Sep 9th, 2007, 10:39am »

So true MarkM...we are wasting our time with this salad tossing.

If anything I think we all agree that the images are NOT CGI.

There NO proof of CGI
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #378 on: Sep 9th, 2007, 11:01am »

on Sep 9th, 2007, 10:39am, murnut wrote:
So true MarkM...we are wasting our time with this salad tossing.


ROFLMAO grin grin grin grin grin grin

Salad tossing. Oh my, that's one for the books.
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #379 on: Sep 9th, 2007, 11:19am »

on Sep 8th, 2007, 10:12pm, Saladfingers wrote:
You know what.. I would have definatley done things different. The real problem is that no one said anything!

Honestly Atrueoriginal, I'm not this monster you think I am. As Mark said, it all got stuck in a loop. There is no script, and no rule book to all of this. The drones are a unique case. There isn't another like it.

If it wasn't me who tackled this from the CG side of things, it would have been someone else. The real problem, is that I was being told by all the believers that the only way to prove that it is CG is to recreate it perfectly.
So I gave it a good shot. Like Mark says.. the eyes know.. and CG can lack life. To me though, the original chad drone had that exact feel about it.

So anyway, back to what i was saying... I was being asked to create a perfect replica. But what ever i offered was never real enough. I know that replication isn't proof, so does anyone. But the challenge was set, and I was, and still am fascinated by the drones.

It isn't my fault that my artform is CG. I work on what I am interested in, what inspires me. So creating the drones seemed like a really great challenge. If you were me, you'd feel the same.

My recent work has all been for a music video (for drone the musician) who wrote a piece of music about the drones. We have since become good friends, and the music video is kind of my way of bringing this unconcluded case to a conclusion, because I need to get on with my life!
The A1 unit is for the video, and was never meant to prove anything.. but I was shocked to see how identical the shadows were. The BB drone I've been working on is also for the video. I had to update that because the old one didn't look good enough. This vid is going on my showreel, and I want it to look good.. ya know? It is my job after all.

I don't know. I find this whole thing bizarre, and I totally understand your perspective on this. I'm really sorry for the way I have made you feel. I'd prefer to move forward than backward, and all this back biting makes me sick to the stomach, because I'm not like that. I hate confrontation, and I also hate upsetting people.
I hope we can move forward.

Just please, if you have something to say about me, please bring it to me first so we can talk about it. If the tables were turned, I don't think you would enjoy it very much either.

As for Interocitor... I won't waste my time. He clearly has his mind made up, and has created some very wild fantasy about me. Strange lad.
No doubt this is the "prepared script" he wanted lol shocked laugh

keep cool all

Kris

Not being mean but I haven't seen anything you've done that's close. The only things that I've seen in your CGI's that look really real is the background.
If you can do one like the Rajman craft and I mean exactly like it, then you can do human skin that looks real.
That isn't going to happen.
Sent you a PM by the way.
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #380 on: Sep 9th, 2007, 11:37am »

on Sep 9th, 2007, 10:31am, MarkM wrote:
I vote that we take what we've learned and move on. We've all voiced our concerns - I think we're in agreement (regardless of what side of the drone fence we've landed on) that CGI will play a big role in photo analysis from this point on.

Mark, you're just too passive sometimes and you don't see how we've all had to walk backwards due to such things. Our trek is futile, we can't do what we do and expect to see anything happen now. Not without research outside of the forum and who out there is likely to do that now with what they've seen? Nobody. Not even LMH until Isaac or one of the drone witnesses from her camp makes a move.

I see things quite different then most when it comes to Kris's attempts. Maybe it's because I spend more time thinking about what I see and I'm not one to stay silent. I'm going to show you here just a few things that I see so you understand better why I feel like I do about his presence.

Originally, (first OMF post) he told his new audience back in May that he was a 'professional' CGI artist. This was done on the same day he posted his UFO-cross youtube. This all appears to be directly after a comment was posted in the youtube by lucianarchy that saladfingers slid into OMF. That was 14 weeks ago.

First of all, I believe he's using that word professional quite losely because he is an adept CGI artist and not a professional one. Technically, It's ok though for him to say professional since CGI is his profession and what he does to make his living. With that original youtube from May 24th he got a considerable amount of notoriety. He's going to feed on that now. Nobody in their right minds would not think any other way. That's what they want and need since they make all attempts to continually promote themselves. There's nothing wrong with that certainly however he did it in our realm and in the process of doing so he's upset the ufology apple cart. Unfortunately, many of you seem to think that's ok. Don't make me go into your ALL posts and find your constant whining on the subject previous to this incident. You cannot deny such things so why are you defending his actions?

In the process of promoting himself he used the screen name saladfingers. I simply saw an ulterior motive here. As you already know, saladfingers is actually a very popular cartoon video series designed by another CGI artist called David Firth. So unless he knows Firth on a personal basis that's one thing but that name is being used to attract a bigger audience since people see the name saladfingers. Essentially, if he doesn't know Firth on a personal basis, which I do not believe he does based on a post of his then he purposely took on the name saladfingers for his own promotional and monatary reasons. Also, if he doesn't know Firth he's infringing, not necessarily legally because I am not aware of Firth's protection on 'saladfingers' but certainly its a moral issue.

From the very day of May 24th, the Firth situation (saladfingers) really bothered me and it's because something quite similar to this happened to me in the early 90's. I had a retail business and I also sold my accessories in monthly motorcycle magazines. My ad bill ran over $140,000 a year for these full page ads I was running in popular monthly magazines. I had been doing so for about four years when suddenly another company started running their new ad at the same time and they used my stores name except omitted one word from the name. Legally I couldn't do anything about it. Overnight, I lost hundreds of thousands of dollars from basically a copy cat thief who wanted to take the easy road. I still had to pay for my ads each month since I sat on a year contract. As well, I had a tremendous overhead that went along with previous sales that I lost overnight and that was a killer each month. I had 28 bodies who ran the mail order end of my business that I still had to make sure got paid each week. Sales fell flat on their face and the magazine could do nothing about it. My sales were almost cut in half over night and there was that other company with half of my business and a fraction of my overhead expenses since theirs was a two-man operation to begin with. It was nothing more then a moral issue and not a legal one but they certainly didn't care.

That story is much bigger then saladfingers capabilities but just the same it means the same thing and that is just to explain the possible outcome when someone decides to infringe on a name that belongs to another.

So first and foremost, is Kris purposely infringing on Firth's creation and utilizing the name for greater notoriety? That will be for him to answer. One thing is certain, he never presented his explanation about using the saladfinger's name. Instead, it was brought up by another member and Kris lacked response and it all went away. I sense that he'll probably say something like he just liked the name or it is because saladfingers is brilliant, which is why or whatever other reason he'll have but I hope he's honest instead. He also cannot use the fact that there is a difference in the additional 123456 that he added to the name because when it comes to promotion via Google, 123456 makes little difference. For that matter he continued to use the name saladfingers in OMF deleting the 123456. Consequently, he now ends up mixed throughout the internet alongside the real saladfingers sites of which there are many.

Like I said, Kris never brought up the saladfingers issue. Instead, it took a member to do it. Why? What is it that humans do when we have an ulterior motive? Do we throw it out there or just sit and hope that nobody brings it up. This is the post where Kris first responds to a saladfingers comment made by a member. Will make point in next paragraph.
Quote:
David Firths creations are extremely odd, but brilliant. Not to everyones taste no doubt smiley
I really love the music he uses on it too. Boards of Canada and Aphex Twin. Excellent smiley
Anyways, back on topic ....

Anyways, back on topic....
Why does he want to get back on topic when he's the topic. Is the Firth thing bothersome to him, was his original intention to infringe on saladfingers? The psychologist in me comes out and I see someone who is afraid to see anyone confront him with his intentional infringement on the tremendous popularity of another CGI artist.

Here is another post that I find unusual since Kris never responded to the poster ever.
Quote:
Quote:saladfingers
Sept 5, 2007, 12:09pm, saladfingers wrote:I'll also add that video attracts the news far more.. even the papers strangely. The drones have been on TV.. my bloody animations! (Without any royalty or permission I might add!) Cheeky gits. Spain picked it up, and I was contacted by a Japanese station wanting them. But haven't heard off them since... they might get back some time soon though.

To which a member replied:
Quote:
Quote:member
Was the video they used clearly labelled as CGI? Pretty safe guess is no? How does it feel to be a hoaxer?

To this day, he has not responded to that member's post.

Honestly, looking at all of my notes I just have so much to say and it would just take too long to mention it all. So instead, I'm going to go to June 17th. This is a bigger example of my real gripe. The only thing I see when I see things such as these are that others see them as well and their immediate thought is if saladfingers can duplicate it then it must be a hoax. Sure, some know better, but the majority have blown off all of the drones and the Isaac artifacts simply because he produces a close copy and they don't know better. That close copy is all the majority has to see and their minds are made up. Whether any of the drones are real or a hoax it doesn't matter because what Kris did was simply put the word hoax in their minds by showing how easy it was to do.

Kris is a hoaxer, he's just a different kind is all plain and simple because he's producing hoaxes that are forming new opinions. I love the way he always makes sure that everyone knows that it's his own rendition. This is simply because he has to. What he is, is a contender and is contending with what might be authentic but he's knocked it out of the ring. Do you think that the researchers in the UFO community didn't see what he was doing way back in May and June?

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We keep complaining about MUFON, Friedman the lack of media attention and are wondering why they won't look into or research the drones or Isaac. Well duh! I sure as heck wouldn't spend money to do so either or risk my reputation if I had to contend with CGI copies of drones thrown in my face. Like I said originally when this all began, he's hurt ufology. He's hindered research possibilities. Sure, he's a nice guy but he has underlying ulterior motives and an agenda that you all don't care to see and that's why, he's a nice guy. This is what he thinks about us and you just let it slide and pretend it's not there. We're all asses chasing after CARET (carrot).
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on Sep 9th, 2007, 10:39am, murnut wrote:
So true MarkM...we are wasting our time with this salad tossing. If anything I think we all agree that the images are NOT CGI. There NO proof of CGI

Murnut, you keep forgetting. That's only what you think, most have left and ufology won't tackle it because they saw something different.

You're all too complacent and I'm afraid it's simply because he's the nice guy. Oh how sad.

I am standing behind ufology. Who are you standing behind?

« Last Edit: Sep 9th, 2007, 12:01pm by oljack666 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #381 on: Sep 9th, 2007, 11:53am »

on Sep 9th, 2007, 10:39am, murnut wrote:
So true MarkM...we are wasting our time with this salad tossing.


How much time do you think we've lost because we have nobody in Ufology working on either the drones or Isaac?

What kind of new knowledge do you think we've lost and have not gained or don't have because we have nobody in Ufology working on either the drones or Isaac?

Can you all answer that?

Almost everyone here is making me feel like you're all just here for the conversations alone and what's behind the conversation has little meaning. The drones are done, Isaac is done there is no going forward. We have no help and we can't do it ourselves.

« Last Edit: Sep 9th, 2007, 11:56am by oljack666 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #382 on: Sep 9th, 2007, 12:09pm »

I've been watching the ufo scene for over 50 years. The Internet has caused everyone to have an anxiety attack.

We used to get a new ufo fix every six months if we were lucky. Maybe a new book would come out or there would be a new sighting. Now we like to have our fix every six days.

Isaac and LMH are old school. They're in no hurry to satisfy the ufo junkies. But is would be nice if they did. I would like that myself.

But I must add that this site and Ovnis are doing a great job on keeping up with the drone story.

The drone episode will probably go on for the next several years and most likely for decades to come..
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #383 on: Sep 9th, 2007, 12:12pm »

I have just made a small site, just to keep things alive:

http://vonstern.homepage.dk/Magazine.html

And, mostly for the fun of it grin

Enjoy,

VonStern
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #384 on: Sep 9th, 2007, 12:21pm »

on Sep 9th, 2007, 12:12pm, VonStern wrote:
I have just made a small site, just to keep things alive:
http://vonstern.homepage.dk/Magazine.html
And, mostly for the fun of it grin
Enjoy,
VonStern

Cheers for the video link Vonstern, fame at last!! laugh
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #385 on: Sep 9th, 2007, 1:26pm »

Atrueoriginal...

Is this a joke? Are you seriously hounding me now because of my name? You really must be gaining a vast amount of respect for your character assassination. You deserve such respect.

My name...

When i came across the drone images for the first time, i was led to the OMF via old fashioned bulletin boards in Outlook. That was where i had always read up on the general goings on.

I had a very strong feeling about the Chad drone being CG from my Professional viewpoint. Professional means you get paid to do something. So that is entirely accurate, and it means nothing else.

So I created my drone out of sheer interest while I sat in my office with my Fiancée. She played coloured lines, and I messed about in 3D.

I'd never felt compelled to join a UFO forum before.. not on a website anyway. But I was really quite convinced that it looked 3D. I still maintain that.. as much as you hate it. You are not the thought police ATO.. I am entitled to my opinion. So I joined OMF, as there was some good conversation going on in there. It seemed to be a group of logical, and sound thinkers...

i posted up my opinion, and I also posted up a few pics I had done of it.

Now then.. my name.

I love the cartoon Saladfingers.. I think it is wicked! I love Firths work! .. Now I play a game online occasionally called Halflife 2. Quite probably only a few here might know it. I use the name saldfingers there. So i just used the same name to join up on OMF. No big deal.. not even close to this premeditated fantasy you describe!
Later in the day, i thought it would be cool to see how my drone model would look moving. So I created a little animation out of interest. I chucked it up on youtube (because I've got no idea where else would be better to put it that doesn't charge). I thought those on the OMF would like to see what it might look like if it was in video.
Totally innocent. I wasn't looking for a mass audience, I didn't even think anyone would give two hoots. I thought it would be nice to add something that i could do. It wasn't to prove anything.. it was to see what it looked like in motion.

Spin on a couple of days.. LMH in her investigative glory goes and reports the video as real.. not animation, despite the fact it was labelled as CG.

All of a sudden it ends up everywhere. If you were shocked.. then I was flabbergasted! It seemed crazy! It didn't even look real. But non the less.. it happened.

Something I did out of all innocence was thrust into the limelight by Linda 'no fact checking' Howe. She could have said "I don't know if this is fake or real, I need to look into it as I haven't had the time". No one would have complained at that.

But no.. she said categorically.. "IT IS NOT ANIMATION".

Here is a link to the sound file.. blow yourself away...

I emphasised the NOT ANIMATION part, so you hear it clearly...

http://www.thefiledump.com/showfile.php?id=29356

Here is the Youtube video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRv3WAEnHMc


If LMH hadn't made this ridiculous claim, then i would have sunk into the background. No one would have referenced me, it would have been a small side note in the casefile.

The fact is.. she did. She did this not me.

Because of all this, I have had to maintain that name, because otherwise it would confuse everyone about what is being referenced.. or who. I actually really wanted to change my name, and wish that I'd have known that such a stupid light was going to be shone on me. Id have actually picked a decent name.

All your guessing about me using the saladfingers name to further my popularity is an absolute joke. It would seem you will stop at nothing to attack me. You are making things up.. creating falsehoods.. judging me, and rewriting history without checking with me first.

Can you not see how pathetic your behaviour must seem to others?

The crazy thing is.. you are only making me more notorious by all this insanity...


ATo.. if you really think that this is a proper way for an adult to behave then I think you should go see a therapist. You are paranoid to the point of lunacy!

How on earth you think that I have premeditated LMH making a very stupid mistake I really do not know.


I was willing to let this rest, and try to move forward in a constructive way. You have now proven you are not worthy of that effort, respect, or any more of my time.

I pity the next person that you turn on. I hope everyone here doesn't have to suffer your fantasy.


Kris

« Last Edit: Sep 9th, 2007, 1:29pm by Saladfingers » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #386 on: Sep 9th, 2007, 1:56pm »

on Sep 9th, 2007, 10:14am, Latitude wrote:
I have to admit that I never learned one thing about CGI from Saladfingers. I never saw him try to teach anybody at omf how the drones could have been made with cgi. He always talked that he would one day do an article exposing the tell tail signs of CGI in the photos but never did. If he never found a CGI smoking gun why didn't he report that?

Salad could have been a major asset for OMF as a impartial CGI analyst. He could have been used to check claims of cgi hoax that were made by Biedny, Ritzman and Steve from Mufon. But he never did those things. Everything he ever did was a partisan effort to destroy the drone case. His actions prove he never was interested in research.




I never finished the report, because I was being told that nothing I could do or say would prove the drones are CG.. so I thought.. sod it! Why should i waste what would be a considerable amount of my time on people that don't care. ATO is a prime example.

Look at this link. I gave up a whole day to put all this together. I did it to arm those without any knowledge of CG with a bit of a 101.

http://lucianarchy.proboards21.com/index.cgi?board=cali1&action=display&thread=1184240982

Have you done anything for anyone like that? If I was you, I wouldn't bother either.. because you get attacked for it.

« Last Edit: Sep 9th, 2007, 1:56pm by Saladfingers » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #387 on: Sep 9th, 2007, 2:03pm »

ATO, I agree with almost everything you wrote.

I just cant blame salad for the CGI mess that ufo investigators has to deal with now.

Salad, should realize at this point, that he has deeply offended some of "us" and that he cant fix it

UFO studies is not my lifes work, but it is for some people, do you realize that salad?

Do you understand that salad? Maybe you did not know you were making enemies but i tried to warn you, way back when our friend neighborhood LEV said the same thing.

Since LEV said it, I knew you would dismiss it, thats why I felt compelled to back him up.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day

Dear salad, you might as well accept the fact you have made enemies and move on.

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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #388 on: Sep 9th, 2007, 2:09pm »

Saladfingers I have been watching this case of the drones and think it may be an case of interjection by some people to embellish the story but some of it may be true.
The first picture that I saw released in this case was A thing called a Pipe Pig which is used to clean pipes when they have become corroded. The pipe pig was setting on a mirror and someone had taken a picture of it and was claiming it was a drone. And I agree with you some of the other pictures look like CGI, but a couple of them I have seen look to be authentic pictures of an unknown craft.
At this point I think that there is a possibility that the story may have some truth to it especially in the area of propulsion.
I didnt have time to read all the discussion between you and ATO , but i dont think its important, what is important is that you continue to publish your thoughts so that we can compare them to other known varibles. ATO and you both deserve to have your opinions and I think is your and ATO's rights to do so.
I came back to add this, Let me say that I dont like flaming people, everyone is equally important here, it is against the forum rules and you can be dimissed from the forum for doing so, ATO is my friend as well as I hope I can consider you also friendly to the forum, I dont think it is proffessional So please dont do that.
Take care I will be reading your posts with interest.
« Last Edit: Sep 9th, 2007, 2:24pm by Razor » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #389 on: Sep 9th, 2007, 2:23pm »

on Sep 9th, 2007, 09:01am, murnut wrote:
IMO, we need to get over this and move forward

Thank you for your comment, Murnut. Yes, we'll move forward ,specially with pacifiers like you among us. smiley

Edit to add: this note goes for DrDill too ! smiley
« Last Edit: Sep 9th, 2007, 2:26pm by raska » User IP Logged

The Flock Attitude 's got no chance next to AI
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