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GForce
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #450 on: Sep 10th, 2007, 5:33pm »

on Sep 10th, 2007, 3:32pm, Saladfingers wrote:
Go on.. some one else have a go at me...

Kris


Kris that's the wrong attitude to have. I don't think you should attack or be attacked personally. This is a forum and we should be able to debate on the merits or give our opinions or theories on any given topic. The problem is some people have been fighting and searching for answers. And when so many hoaxes are flying around it casts a dark shadow on all evidence. It makes it almost impossible to discern real from fake. CG makes it worse when it's used to perpetrate a hoax. Or is used to show how it could have been faked.


Kris what you do you do very well. The problem is that anyone who believes in UFOs are thought of as nuts by skeptics and debunkers. And as we search for hard evidence we're faced with hoaxes from those who wish to play games or to stroke their own ego. It was bad enough dealing with fake photo's or videos. But now with CG everyone who's a skeptic will scream HOAX! It makes an up hill battle even tougher. Personally I have no problem with CG being used to discredit fakes. I do have a problem with it being used to create a fake.

That's why I believe so many here are giving you a tough time. I just think we all should tone it down a notch. There's so much verbal crap floating around it's like watching a presidential debate. A lot of words with little meaning. Just my two cents! Dan
« Last Edit: Sep 10th, 2007, 5:39pm by GForce » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #451 on: Sep 10th, 2007, 6:58pm »

I have thrown in some new stuff at the Magazine:

http://vonstern.homepage.dk/Magazine.html

Feel free to debate the possibilities of this assumption.

VonStern
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #452 on: Sep 10th, 2007, 7:00pm »

on Sep 10th, 2007, 5:33pm, GForce wrote:
Kris that's the wrong attitude to have. I don't think you should attack or be attacked personally. This is a forum and we should be able to debate on the merits or give our opinions or theories on any given topic. The problem is some people have been fighting and searching for answers. And when so many hoaxes are flying around it casts a dark shadow on all evidence. It makes it almost impossible to discern real from fake. CG makes it worse when it's used to perpetrate a hoax. Or is used to show how it could have been faked.


Kris what you do you do very well. The problem is that anyone who believes in UFOs are thought of as nuts by sceptics and debunkers. And as we search for hard evidence we're faced with hoaxes from those who wish to play games or to stroke their own ego. It was bad enough dealing with fake photo's or videos. But now with CG everyone who's a sceptic will scream HOAX! It makes an up hill battle even tougher. Personally I have no problem with CG being used to discredit fakes. I do have a problem with it being used to create a fake.

That's why I believe so many here are giving you a tough time. I just think we all should tone it down a notch. There's so much verbal crap floating around it's like watching a presidential debate. A lot of words with little meaning. Just my two cents! Dan


Ok, last post, then I’m going.. god i can hear the cheers. I agree, and thank you for that, I hear your words. Although, I was only making light of things. I'm sorry to all those I attacked, I'm sorry if my images have caused you, or the wider community grief, and I’m sorry for anything for which I wont be able to answer to because I have gone.

My final message is this.

The world has changed, but the fundamental principle behind a hoax remains. As MarkM said, CG is the new wheel hub being tossed through the sky.
What I have actually done, is irrelevant, however big and bad it may seem right now. The drones case is but one of many, and its complexity does not make it any more real than a film, book, or computer game.
As complex as it seems, and implies, there is actually no indication that the evidence such as the primer or the CARET documents have any real complexity, only implied complexity. In the primer, there is no sign of advanced mathematical relations. It does not have anything in it that can be pointed at to say yes! This shows advanced thinking!. It is aesthetically pleasing though.

The drones.
Photos mean almost nothing these days. Irrelevant of what I have done, it changes nothing. Images cannot be trusted. Period. They are merely indicative of what someone saw, or claims they saw.
The job of the ufologist is no more difficult, because it has always been the same. The water is muddy. Full stop. It was never clean in the first place.
Now as 11thAugust is doing on OMF, he is contacting specialists in photo analysis, and specialists who use processes to determine if an image is real or CG. This is the kind of work that should be going on. My contribution is a good, comparative image, that can be used as control. We know that it is CG, and we have that fully verified. But hopefully (and I need to speak to him about this) he won't tell the specialist which is which. That way no bias can be brought into the results.

So my work in combination with others will hopefully allow for a cleaner water, and that hasn't been possible before. You can't run these tests on a photo of a wheel hub.

Another thing. Perhaps it is time to force LMHs hands as to releasing the rest of the HiRes scans. She now has no excuse.

Her original reason was because they could be used to create another hoax. I never quite understood that excuse. If she can release one, she can release them all. A near accurate model and render can be produced with what is out there, so she cannot use that excuse anymore. It has no bearing.
So I suggest to someone that they contact LMH, and present this to her. I would do it, but I doubt she will talk to me. Retaining evidence is unforgivable.

I know there is a very big hatred of the CG argument, and CG as a whole, but you have to consider, that perhaps the reason why so many have been turned away from the case, is because the CG argument is a very good one. It didn't need me to tell them. In fact, I read a lot of remarks which said that they were considered CG, before I even decided to join OMF. Written before I’d even heard of it.
The difference, is that I set out to see if they were right. Who would have known it would be such a can of worms. Not me. Again, sorry.

I will just make sure one point is known. I did do pre-work before I joined OMF. I saw the Chad images, and decided to have a go, my own little investigation. I felt they looked ok for the time spent on them, and so I thought they were worth sharing. So yes, that work was done before I joined OMF. I created the Youtube account a few hours later, as I left that animation rendering while I mowed the lawn.

The airbase.. there is nothing sinister about that.. yes I do have access to an airbase...

Cosford!

http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/cosford/

and the photo was taken here (although there is anew builing there now, the brick one seen in the video) p.s. click on aireal button on the left.

http://maps.live.com/?v=2&sp=Point.ss6qcngt6kvp_UFO%255fcross%255fphoto%255ftaken%255fhere___&encType=1


And I tell you what.. It was pretty boring by all accounts. Some cool stuff though, but you can't fill a day at the place. (See.. nothing sinister!)

I haven't used any matchmove software, and all the backdrops on youtube are photographs. My setup is not really that big or complex.

Anyway, there you go. Ignore it, or take something from it. I can't say that I haven't done harm, but I also don't think the realm of Ufology can get much worse.

So long as there are blind believers, sensationalist reporters, non-investigative journalists, and a climate of paranoia, the subject of UFOs will remain stuck in the rut it is now.

If you want to change the way it is perceived, and create a credible, strong field of research, then it is time to shun those I just mentioned. Making money from UFOs is the road to ridicule. Making a religion from Aliens and UFOs is the road to ridicule.

All that is needed is to identify, and enable a strong series of very credible tests. Reliable research. Verifiable witnesses. Good documentation.
It will take time to make these changes, but if we start that change, maybe we can change the perceptions of the world at large. If you want disclosure, you are going to need a hell of a lot of people to do it, and not just those interested now. We need millions to stand up and notice, maybe billions.

It is time for a changing of the guard, and a rebranding of the way Ufology is handled. All of this can only come through co-operation.

Listen, I’m sorry everyone. From the bottom of my heart.. I am sorry.

Peace.. be well, and good luck for the future.. interesting and dangerous times are ahead of us. I hope we all make it through.


Kris
« Last Edit: Sep 10th, 2007, 7:20pm by Saladfingers » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #453 on: Sep 10th, 2007, 7:09pm »

Kris I strongly agree with G-force Thats what forums are all about to argue and discuss your subject sometimes if it is not a popular you just have to take the flack to test your theories.
Simply put I wouldnt leave the forum your point is as valid as the proof that you can provide and should be discussed. You quite simply may show us something we missed the people that dont agree can simply ignore and not respond to your posts.
Do want you feel but I recommend you stay Bro, no one here really wishs you to leave.
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #454 on: Sep 10th, 2007, 7:19pm »

on Sep 10th, 2007, 7:00pm, Saladfingers wrote:
Another thing. Perhaps it is time to force LMHs hands as to releasing the rest of the HiRes scans. She now has no excuse.

Her original reason was because they could be used to create another hoax. I never quite understood that excuse. If she can release one, she can release them all. A near accurate model and render can be produced with what is out there, so she cannot use that excuse anymore. It has no bearing.
So I suggest to someone that they contact LMH, and present this to her. I would do it, but I doubt she will talk to me. Retaining evidence is unforgivable.


I fully agree with this statement. ugh, now were fighting for disclosure from LMH rolleyes
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #455 on: Sep 10th, 2007, 7:29pm »

on Sep 10th, 2007, 7:09pm, Razor wrote:
Kris I strongly agree with G-force Thats what forums are all about to argue and discuss your subject sometimes if it is not a popular you just have to take the flack to test your theories.
Simply put I wouldnt leave the forum your point is as valid as the proof that you can provide and should be discussed. You quite simply may show us something we missed the people that dont agree can simply ignore and not respond to your posts.
Do want you feel but I recommend you stay Bro, no one here really wishs you to leave.


No, he doesn't have to leave, but he should kill that link to his distorted BB Drone CGI.
The dimensions are off dude,you know what I'm talking about too. There is no detail,shorten your arms now, you don't deserve all of the pats on the back you're giving yourself, you ain't all that.
All you're doing is taking advantage of those with less discerning eyes, trying to build some sort of fan club for yourself Saladbar, that in itself is dispicable.

By the way everyone, my sister is going to Capitola for me this coming weekend. She is going to try her best to find the location that the pics were taken. I will keep all posted, we wll be in touch as she searches.
The pics are in the hands of people that are in the motion picture camera industry, in NY, Calif., and Munich Germany.
As a test I sent on pic of Salads BB, I was told, and I had to laugh, "these things are unusual, but we're not stupid, we won't be looking at that one."

Saladbar, that's how you investigate something.
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #456 on: Sep 10th, 2007, 7:30pm »

on Sep 10th, 2007, 7:09pm, Razor wrote:
Kris I strongly agree with G-force Thats what forums are all about to argue and discuss your subject sometimes if it is not a popular you just have to take the flack to test your theories.
Simply put I wouldnt leave the forum your point is as valid as the proof that you can provide and should be discussed. You quite simply may show us something we missed the people that dont agree can simply ignore and not respond to your posts.
Do want you feel but I recommend you stay Bro, no one here really wishs you to leave.


Kind words, but i'm not entirely sure that last sentence is entirely true lol.. but a nice sentiment all the same.

Listen, I'll keep my account open.. but I am not going to do any arguing or anything like that. If someone tries to bait, I will ignore it.

My account will stay open purely for the sake of sharing information. Anything I have that might be useful to either side of the fence I will make sure that UFOCB gets it too.
But really.. i will leave everyone to it as a whole.

I hope that is ok ATO. To you I offer the greatest apology, and hope we can one day work things out and see eye to eye.

Night night.
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #457 on: Sep 10th, 2007, 8:02pm »

on Sep 10th, 2007, 6:58pm, VonStern wrote:
I have thrown in some new stuff at the Magazine:

http://vonstern.homepage.dk/Magazine.html

Feel free to debate the possibilities of this assumption.

VonStern


Very cool page I have a friend that has defined the design parameters for a much simular system I think you and he might have fun discussing this some.
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #458 on: Sep 10th, 2007, 8:08pm »

on Sep 10th, 2007, 8:02pm, Razor wrote:
Very cool page I have a friend that has defined the design parameters for a much simular system I think you and he might have fun discussing this some.


I would welcome that, at any time!

VonStern
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #459 on: Sep 10th, 2007, 8:27pm »

I will send his address to you via PM on this board He is a brilliant scientist and a wonderful individual send him a mail and tell him I gave the address to you and that you would like to discuss propulsion systems with him I am pretty sure he will be thrilled to speak with you. It is my understanding that his work is a plasma drive design. Ok check your PM his name is Bluespider by the way.

OMG ATO is gonna kill me I have this topic so far off subject SSSSOOOORRRYYYYY ATO.
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #460 on: Sep 10th, 2007, 8:34pm »

Kris - I found your post to be well thought out, reflective, and respectful. I believe that you're sincere. I hope that you'll reconsider your membership here.

I may not like what has happened and the way that the dynamic has changed, but I understand the whys a wherefores of it. I'm also smart enough to make up my own mind about things, I don't need anyone to tell me how to interpret things, no matter how strong or brilliant the argument may be.

For the record, while my artists eye can definitely tell the difference between CGI and a "real" photo, I think that your work is excellent. You'll go far in your field and deservedly so.

Again, I appreciate the gracious post and hope that everyone will follow that tone in their future postings.
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #461 on: Sep 10th, 2007, 8:35pm »

on Sep 10th, 2007, 8:27pm, Razor wrote:
OMG ATO is gonna kill me I have this topic so far off subject SSSSOOOORRRYYYYY ATO.


Execution is not one of the functions of a moderator wink.
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #462 on: Sep 10th, 2007, 8:43pm »

on Sep 10th, 2007, 6:58pm, VonStern wrote:
I have thrown in some new stuff at the Magazine:

http://vonstern.homepage.dk/Magazine.html

Feel free to debate the possibilities of this assumption.

VonStern

Quote:
If this power can be harnessed by NANO grids, embedded in the surface of the housing, attachments could be hold together (and onto) the rings by magnetic differencies due to current changes inside the superconductors, you not only have the antigravity, but also the propulsion system. A silent and VERY powerful machinery, yet at the same time not very power consuming.


This is a sound concept Vonstern and I think OTF mentioned earlier that the, “Rusted” parts could be gold or some other similarly conductive substance. While it certainly appears plausible I don’t think it’s the same as what (is implied) the Drones are using. I say this because it flies in the face of nearly everything Isaac said. He specifically said that the anti-gravity device held everything in place with the use of RSR. And although he never said that the inventory photo and the anti-gravity device were directly related he DID say that the thing that caught his eye with the Drones was the fact that it used the executable, “Language”.

This executable language is evident on the anti-gravity device and on the Big Basin drone on the paddle connected to the main ring. The main ring is in turn evident in the Isaac inventory photo which would certainly suggest that Isaac meant that the Drones were powered by the anti-gravity device and this is where the correlation lies and explains why they were both contained in his release of documents. This also explains why he went to the lengths he did to try and clarify the subjects which he did, as much as he did, (i.e. LAP, A1 device etc.)

So if you accept your theory I feel you must also accept that Isaac released fake documents. (And dare I say it, grin this would raise the question of how hard an image of the Drones would be to replicate/reproduce as Isaac obviously managed it with the inventory photo.)

And if you accept Isaac as real then the Drones are held in place by the anti-gravity device (RSR) which also powers the craft, then wouldn’t this directly contradict your theory?
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #463 on: Sep 10th, 2007, 8:53pm »

All these rings gets me thinking about this clip:

http://richardlalancette.blogspot.com/2007/09/demonstration-video-of-mobious-ring.html

peace..
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #464 on: Sep 10th, 2007, 8:59pm »

We know Mufon is not willing to do a proper investigation of the drones for one reason or another. But how about some other UFO organizations? I sent an email to Dr Greer's Disclosure.org a couple of weeks ago and never heard back. How about NUFORC and Peter Davenport? What are some feelings on him and his organization?
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