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 sticky  Author  Topic: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TRUTH  (Read 4174 times)
newtothis
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #600 on: Sep 14th, 2007, 6:03pm »

on Sep 14th, 2007, 5:24pm, Saladfingers wrote:
It may all appear real, but nothing can be verified in any way! As posted before, the actual reality is that these items, photos and witnesses are being presented as real, but with nothing to verify that they are real. Not a single thing to verify them. You can believe they are real, but I'm sorry, it just does not make it true!

It is great to imagine that every word, every photo is true, and how amazing and fantastic, but I cannot, and will never subscribe to that without a single verification of any of the presented data.


Salad, verification is the key to this whole issue. The photos, witnesses, and documents are real, in a sense that they exist... Now, the photos could be fakes, the witnesses could be hoaxers, and the documents could be fiction! But I consider them to be "true" until someone else proves, without a doubt, that they are fake. And after more than 4 months of examining all of these photos and the documents and no proof of a hoax...

But, even if this debate does not come to a conclusion, I hope that someone got, or gets, some inspiration to try to reproduce the technology and ideas presented by this case! shocked

Newt~
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #601 on: Sep 14th, 2007, 6:10pm »

on Sep 14th, 2007, 5:24pm, Saladfingers wrote:
You are entitled to believe them of course, and i do not knock that. I'm not attacking you, it is just that I have serious issue with your lack of need for proof. It is a way of thinking i can never subscribe to. But i can share your wish for it to be true.


Think I have repeated some words here too many times... a few beers do that to me smiley


Don't you think that you or any of the other hoax believers would have figured out how the photos were made by now? I guess I have a lot more confidence in their abilities. I think if this was a hoax they would have found numerous smoking guns months ago. The Haiti video hoax was exposed within 24 hours.

How about the telephone interviews done by LMH? I guess those people are all in on the hoax too? Then all the Isaac documentation and the LAP. I think the hoax theory is more far fetched than the alternative.

Have another beer. The hoax theory gets more believable with each one. grin
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #602 on: Sep 14th, 2007, 6:15pm »

[offtopic]
Hehe, got my first UFO on camera. It was definately a flying object that no-one could identify. Just sat there for well over 30 minutes shining through all colors at different brightness. Camera was set on 'auto' which resulted in exposure time of 1/2 sec and therefore the object (a dot) appears as 'snake'.

http://www.quantumsilicones.com/mike/100_0371.jpg

Also got it on camcoder for about 10 sec. (Then the camera quit due to humidity outside)
[/offtopic]

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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #603 on: Sep 14th, 2007, 6:29pm »

on Sep 14th, 2007, 5:49pm, castles4me wrote:
True, but every person, including yourself that either eludes or claims that this is a hoax cannot and has not provided 100% proof positive. Not only that...


Castles,

They haven't even provided 1% proof positive. Zilch, nada, zip, nothing. They say things like,"It's gotta be fake". I don't know what they are so afraid of. It's like a faith based religion to them.
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #604 on: Sep 14th, 2007, 6:33pm »

It seems to escape Mr. Salad and the salad-eaters that few have ever said that CG is incapable of producing believable UFO hoaxes. Most accept it , but I am saying that in all your posting and posturing and psychobabble you have never disproved anything. Your attempts have done the contrary they have shown how really good the original drone Cg is if indeed it is CG. Sense you must know this, once again what is your purpose in rattling on ad nauseum about it. You can not disprove the drones at all as are pre-CG UFO photos can not be absolutely disproved with a knowledge of old special effects. I call OMF the "Salad-bowl" because that is all it is now, a place for you to pontificate. The posters here had best make up their own minds and expect to have to listen to you on every photo case of interest in the future. What a boring proposition.
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #605 on: Sep 14th, 2007, 6:41pm »

I think my point is being missed. I'm not saying that the odds go either way. As far as i can say, it remains 50/50 at best.

My actual point, is that you can't go around saying it is real, as if it is some guarenteed fact.

Consider my above view as the conditions that the wider world would require to take it seriously. The academics, scientists, the press, ...all the fields that could really benefit from it.
It has got to be verified! I get no pleasure at all from my feeling that it is a hoax, but I can't prove that right now any more than it can be proved real. All i want is those that keep saying it is real, to accept and openly admit that it has not been proven. It isn't much to ask. If everyone can admit this most basic of realities, we could all move forward and work towards the truth. Opinion has been worn out to its death!

4 Months, and neither side is much further forward. Circumstances surrounding the reports, and the narrative release of images and eventually documents raises very big questions.

I am going to paste in the post that i made over at OMF, with the full txt i quoted from Derren Brown that I mentioned before, because it covers quite elequently the true believer conundorum.

Here it is...

_______________________________

I'm just going to post an extract from a very good book, by a very insightful and talented man, Mr Derren Brown. He isn't very well known State side, but he is pretty well known in the UK. He has written a book called Tricks of the mind, and I recommend anyone to read it.
He has a lot to say about beliefs, and everything he says on the subject is absolutely sound and correct. Here is one paragraph that i thought relevant...
----------------

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. This is terribly important. What tends to happen instead is that extraordinary claims lead to extraordinary conviction. We tend to think that the depth of our personal experience of the extraordinary thing in question, be it God or healing crystals (or drones , Kris) is evidence of the veracity of the claim. It really isn't; it's just evidence of how much we are prepared to believe in something (without proof). Attached to this understanding is the fact that if you believe in something extraordinary, you cannot insist that non-believers prove you wrong in an argument. It's your job to do the proving. We're back to the problem of trying to prove a negative. Imagine, for example, that a grown man is arguing that there is a Father Christmas. It's not up to everyone else to prove that there isn't, in order to decide the matter of whether he exists. He'd better have extraordinary proof to support his extraordinary claim.
Put another way, 'what can be asserted without evidence, can also be dismissed without evidence.'

*I will just write a little more from the following page as it is also relevant. *Note to Derren if you should come across this! Please don't sue me!!! In fact, get involved as i think you'd find this all very interesting to say the least!

Anyway.. next section...

One tendency that gets in the way of us making the best decisions with regard to these sorts of belief systems is that of confirmation bias. Imagine you have heard that Dave (who you don't know) is an extrovert, and you wish to find out whether this is true. You're allowed to ask him yes/no questions about his behavior. What sort of questions would you ask? Just give that some thought for a moment; get a sense of the line of questioning you would take.



I would imagine you might ask the following sorts of questions:

Do you like to go to parties?
Do you enjoy being around people?

These questions are typical, as shown in experiments that look at confirmation bias. The point is, if you ask these sorts of questions of Dave, you will likely walk away convinced that he is an extrovert. Dave will seem to fit the description you have of him.
Edit Kris.. as I don't want to write the whole book.. his point is that we ask questions that are biased to our opinion, confirming our beliefs.

He concludes the section with the following...

...we look for what supports our hypothesis. We are not dispassionate judges where we already have a belief, however tenuous, in place. To look at things objectively and step outside of our beliefs can be almost impossible. For any of us, that is, not just believers in the paranormal.
The all-too common extreme, though, of this sort of bias is circular reasoning. This is the fallacy of the True Believer. The True Believer ignores anything that doesn't fit his belief system. Instead, he inevitably comes to hold those beliefs at a very profound level. They can become absolutely part of his identity. It is this that brings together the religious, the psychic, the cynic (as opposed to the open skeptic) and the narrow-minded of all kinds. It is something I encountered a lot among my fellow Christians. At one level it can be seen in the circular discussion which goes as follows:

Why do you believe in the bible?
Because it is Gods word.
And why do you believe in God?
Because of what it says in the bible.

At a less obvious level, it can be seen in the following common exchange:

Why do you believe Christianity is true?
Because I have the experience of a personal relationship with God.
So how do you know you're not fooling yourself?
Because i know it is real.

Even as an enthusiastic believer myself I could see this kind of tautology at work, and over time I realized that it is common to all forms of True Belief., regardless of the particular belief in question. The fact is, it's enormously difficult - and you need to be fantastically brave - to overcome the circularity of your own ideologies. But just because our identity might be tied up with what we believe, it doesn't make that belief any more correct. One wishes that True Believers of any sort would learn a little modesty in their convictions.


Anyway, it is a brilliant read, and he really does have a good perspective. I'd very much recommend this book to anyone. Again Derren! Don't sue!

Hope this was of interest to everyone.

Cheers.
« Last Edit: Sep 14th, 2007, 6:45pm by Saladfingers » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #606 on: Sep 14th, 2007, 6:43pm »

on Sep 14th, 2007, 6:33pm, interocitor wrote:
It seems to escape Mr. Salad and the salad-eaters that few have ever said that CG is incapable of producing believable UFO hoaxes. Most accept it , but I am saying that in all your posting and posturing and psychobabble you have never disproved anything. Your attempts have done the contrary they have shown how really good the original drone Cg is if indeed it is CG. Sense you must know this, once again what is your purpose in rattling on ad nauseum about it. You can not disprove the drones at all as are pre-CG UFO photos can not be absolutely disproved with a knowledge of old special effects. I call OMF the "Salad-bowl" because that is all it is now, a place for you to pontificate. The posters here had best make up their own minds and expect to have to listen to you on every photo case of interest in the future. What a boring proposition.


Thanks for the input leviathan, you never fail to miss the points I make.
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #607 on: Sep 14th, 2007, 6:44pm »

Salutations
I think Newt the answer is nearing and that some of this stuff is being worked on.If you remember Arthur
Reyes was one of the people that commented on the Language and its potential.He commented on it positively, because he in fact, is working on that kind of programming called.FDDL wherein large blocks of data can be used as nodes in an overall multi stream processing.a google of fddl and Reyes puts him at the very forefront of that technology.the diagrams mimic much some of the data charts I have come across . The diagrams of Isaac would be a future version of that type of programming. It is indeed the direction computer science, and physics is headed,Its presented as ET because allegorically we are becoming the ET as we understand the forces of nature at the subatomic and macro. The diagrams are beautiful because mathematics,nature, is beautiful. I see this not as a profit making hoax, but an attempt of a scientist or group of scientists to share their vision with us. That the want they same thing we do and are working on it. They want us catch the magic. and we did. THey are saying look.its fantastic and its coming your way. LMH had the information on the her site, so I cannot fault as I did before, and I have been almost flaming her at every turn. I feel different about this now. Perhaps they chose the wrong venue, C2C and LMH, as this was a first time for them and misjudged the intensity of feeling of the UFO community.
I can as we all have speculate on that. But I do not believe it is a hoax., or an MIB job, or Government coverup. It is to me something unusual, a gift from our best minds that we are close to achieving something wonderful. He they asked for no money just believe and learn the laws of the universe and how it will get us out there and place us on an even keel withe the ET's as their language would be symbolic if not telepathic , and make them more accepting of us than we are now.if we had stolen the tech..they still would not talk, as we could never understand them..we have to evolve just a tad..just a tad..as Arthur Reyes (IMO) Isaac told us in his story..

Respectfully
Teacherspet


« Last Edit: Sep 14th, 2007, 6:50pm by TeachersPet » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #608 on: Sep 14th, 2007, 6:55pm »

I am not leviathan and you have never made a point just self promotion and bad CG. Things must be rotten near Birmingham. These sites will go as you are helping OMF go. You like to put the blame for all the people who dislike and understand your ways on Leviathan. Surly you can do better than using Leviathan as your defense through distraction or are you really that pathetic.
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #609 on: Sep 14th, 2007, 7:10pm »

Well, if it talks like a Leviathan, and it walks like a Leviathan, then..

Listen. If you insist on refering to me as 'saladbowl' or whaever silly little put downs you like to use, then i won't show you any form of respect in return. Perhaps if you were more honest about who you are, then I can be a little more believing. It is funny, because that is the exact same situation with the drones.

You can hate me, say my CG is poor, honestly you can say what you like. It is your beef, as it doesn't bother me in the slightest. It actually makes me laugh a little.
But really, there is nothing to gain by being the way you are, or how you present yourself. Leviathan obsessed how you seem to.. so is it so surprising i consider you the same person? leviathan had a habit of hiding behind different names, so for him to be you isn't a stretch.

God this is dull.

Anyway, whatever you say. Your opinion is yours, and that is fine.

Btw, i don't put the blame for all the people who dislike and understand my ways on Leviathan.. (I think you actually meant misunderstand)
most people have at least got an argument or something to say from a perspective of opinion or fact. you just attack me. So the only person on here i would consider to be him, or comparable to him, is you. Everyone else seems fine, even if they hate my opinions. That is fine. No one sees the world in the same way do they. It'd be boring if they did.

So please, spit fire at me, I'm fire proof after the ***p that has been thrown at me.

You helped that. So please ..carry on!

Night night all. Leaving you to it, as Le..Interocitor wants to drag this back to page 22.. or whatever it was.

Byeeeee
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #610 on: Sep 14th, 2007, 7:48pm »

on Sep 14th, 2007, 08:39am, castles4me wrote:
Seems there are several types of interferometers. It is definitely a technology to study in our search for what triggered the "decloaking" mystery.

And, is it a coincidence that the LIGO had some major problems starting on May 5 ?


I think there is something to it also... I was reading through those pages for about 4 hours and I kept finding info that seemed to be related to all of this! Gonna take a while to get a good feel for what this tech can do though huh
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #611 on: Sep 14th, 2007, 8:32pm »

I was remiss in mentioning I emailed Dr. Reyes this pm asking whether or not he is the author of this entire adventure.
I will keep you updated as to that when I here from him.






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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #612 on: Sep 14th, 2007, 8:32pm »

on Sep 14th, 2007, 6:44pm, TeachersPet wrote:
they still would not talk, as we could never understand them..we have to evolve just a tad..just a tad..as Arthur Reyes (IMO) Isaac told us in his story..

Respectfully
Teacherspet


Oh so very true, and we will evolve... We have no choice. wink

Newt~
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #613 on: Sep 14th, 2007, 8:35pm »

interocitor - KNOCK IT OFF. Enough with the sarcasm and the condescending posts. I don't care who you are, you're rude plain and simple. Use the member name as registered, stop being obnoxious.

Saladfingers, we've heard your arguments several times over. Everyone gets it. Turn a new page, please.
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #614 on: Sep 14th, 2007, 8:46pm »

No respect from you has been asked for nor expected. The same can be said of your opinions on the drones. You expressed your opinion from day one that they were fake and purposely faked out LMH with your animation. Most posters said that CG was definitely a possibility so your opinion was considered valid and a likelihood. The closer some looked and when new info came available the drones took on a new aura and the BB drone was an incredible work for better than the ILM junk of Transformers. You though insisted that the drones could be proved fake if people, for some reason, gave you enough time to fake them. This was you setting yourself as the ultimate authority on CG, which you are not. The posters must first ask if you thought any future photo was CG and you used obvious and juvenile phrases such as the one in your last post to sway others to your agenda. Some left tired of you and, on OMF, the obnoxious shadow. You have never said why it is so important almost a religious desire of yours to disprove the drones. I have said and will say that I do not like you because I read you. Since you want to ruin the interest and fun that UFOs bring along with the possibility of something new to this world, why should I like you. You Mr. Salad are a simple spoiler, who would tell the end of a movie just for the delight of hurting others. The drones are really not that important. it is the mystery that they bring to a dieing world where hope grows less each day. You enjoy stepping on the new thoughts and enthusiasm that many really need now whether real or not is not the factor. Some want it to be and they have as much right and more than a small know-it-all who wants nothing but to have his ego spun one more time.
« Last Edit: Sep 14th, 2007, 8:47pm by interocitor » User IP Logged

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