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Marvin
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Mmm, yes, very curious, very interesting....


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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #690 on: Sep 18th, 2007, 08:52am »

on Sep 18th, 2007, 07:48am, Nodnunk wrote:
Marvin,
Is the problem you are pointing out with Chad's photo or Ty's photo. It sounds like you are trying to compare one with the other. There are too many unknowns in their origins to do that IMO.



Hi Nodnunk, the issue is with the Ty high-res photo.

I was using the Chad photo as an example of what you would expect to see at a 100% "enlargement" and then an actual enlargement of around 300%. At 300%, one can easily see the "moire pattern" from "over sizing" the picture.

On the Ty high-res photo, one can see the "moire pattern" on the drone at a 100% enlargement, but you can not see it on the trees. If you enlarge the photo to 1600% (I did not supply an example of this, since it did not really show much of anything), the pattern begins to show on the trees (and again, it is beginning to be recreated on the drone). This is strong evidence that the drone was added to the picture after it had already been enlarged. I can find no other answer for it.

At one time I was convinced the drone was really in the photo, but now, I am having my doubts. But you are correct, the evidence has been poorly handled. This is causing most of the problems we are having in answering the question. The photos we have are antidotal at best. We need the original photos and we need the witnesses to come forward. Otherwise, there is no conclusive proof.
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #691 on: Sep 18th, 2007, 10:41am »

Marvin - Does it make a difference that the original Ty photos weren't taking with a digital camera? huh Aren't we working with scanned photos here?
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #692 on: Sep 18th, 2007, 11:09am »

on Sep 18th, 2007, 12:28am, TeachersPet wrote:
Castle4me posted that Arthur Reyes was too young..are you sure you have the correct Arthur Reyes, actually Arthur A. Reyes?


http://www-cse.uta.edu/~reyes/personal/dream_log.htm#2003

He likes to make model planes and spacecraft
http://utamagazine.uta.edu/spring_2003/buzz/reyes.html

He's led the univ in several aeronautical uav championships his photo included
http://www.cse.uta.edu/news/2006/auvteam.asp

He likes FDDL programmers Teacher ..the stuff PACL did
this is his bio
http://www-cse.uta.edu/~reyes/research/reyes_biography.htm

His dreamlogs are the the same as ours UFOs

Is Tai Chi Esoteric?

Don't most professional artists writers scientists put something of themselves in their work or hobbies, like a signature?

I thought this might help
That crop Circle alphabet is a nice find by the way
If this is a hoax they seem to be using adhoc off the shelf symbols, letters, GPS (autonomous)controlled pipe pigs, pipe benders, and materials..which Texas an oil state would have , and is also Reyes home state..Curious




I see your point, and not saying that it couldn't be true.... (that Arthur Reyes is the creator of the drone hoax) I just for one, don't think it is a hoax, and two, it seems Arthur Reyes is serious about his involvement in the UFO phenom especially the contactee/abductee stance. Besides, don't you think a professor has better things to do with his time? I am still not sold on this idea, but haven't dismissed it.
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #693 on: Sep 18th, 2007, 11:22am »

Marvin,

You are probably correct that the case cannot be proved with what we currently have. But keep looking. You may yet turn up the small hidden clue that proves it one way or the other.

Moire patterns normally manifest themselves in images with straight lines. They will always be more easily identified among artificial structures for that reason and natural structures less so. When those straight lines are superimposed with the orientation of another series of straight lines (scanner lines) then a moire pattern is produced. The moire pattern may also be in the trees to some degree but it is much harder to detect due to the randomness of the branches and foliage and the fact that those are not straight and clearly defined lines. That's another way of saying what OTF already told you.

http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/0,,sid9_gci768750,00.html

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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #694 on: Sep 18th, 2007, 12:08pm »

on Sep 18th, 2007, 11:09am, castles4me wrote:
I see your point, and not saying that it couldn't be true.... (that Arthur Reyes is the creator of the drone hoax) I just for one, don't think it is a hoax, and two, it seems Arthur Reyes is serious about his involvement in the UFO phenom especially the contactee/abductee stance. Besides, don't you think a professor has better things to do with his time? I am still not sold on this idea, but haven't dismissed it.


He is doing what they (professors) do - make students think.
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #695 on: Sep 18th, 2007, 12:14pm »

on Sep 18th, 2007, 12:08pm, Gort wrote:
He is doing what they (professors) do - make students think.


That's true. Is everybody listening?

Quote:
From: Arthur A. Reyes, Ph.D.,
Information and Computer Science

Subject: "Isaac" is credible & his "language" merits research.
Date: July 6, 2007
To: earthfiles@earthfiles.com

I read all the content at Isaac's website carefully. I share with you
some of my thoughts about it, especially the "language": I feel Isaac's
diagrammatic notation is more important than any other aspect of his
website or this emerging story.

A Little About Me

I have served as a senior lecturer or assistant professor in the
department of Computer Science & Engineering at the University of Texas
at Arlington continuously since 1999. I earned a Ph.D. in Information &
Computer Science from the University of California at Irvine (UCI) in
1999 and a Bachelor of Science degree in Aerospace Engineering from
Polytechnic University in 1987. I worked as an engineer on the B-2
bomber for Northrop in Pico Rivera (Los Angeles) from 1987 to 1992. In
graduate school I researched tools & methods for software engineering,
including programming languages, expert systems, & various diagrammatic
notations. I now teach senior & first-year graduate courses in
software engineering, advise undergraduate students regarding their
academic progress each term, and help direct the university's Autonomous
Vehicles Laboratory.

My following comments do not represent the University of Texas-Arlington, but are my personal observations based on a long-time engineering and computer science career.

Isaac Is Credible.

I find Isaac's writing style and the content of his narrative to be
consistent with that of a knowledgeable and experienced engineer or
engineering manager. Isaac's use of jargon such as "big-O notation",
"context-sensitive languages", "style manuals", "workflow", the
distinction between software and hardware, etc., is correct, concise &
insightful. I find nothing in Isaac's narrative to indicate fiction.
However I find it humorous that he picked the pseudonym "Isaac", which
means "he will laugh".

Isaac's Extraterrestrial Computer Technology

Isaac states that the extraterrestrial computer is a homogeneous solid
material that upon (much) closer inspection is actually a holographic
array of processing elements. I believe Isaac is providing a vague
description of what Ray Kurzweil describes in his book The Singularity
is Near: When Humans Transcend Biology © 2006, as the ultimate expression of a computer: a quantum computing material that is precisely organized at the subatomic level & higher.


The Singularity Is Near:
When Humans Transcend Biology
© 2006 by Ray Kurzweil.
Click here for amazon.com.

In the type of computational material that Kurzweil references, every
quantum metric, e.g., speed, position, spin, etc. of every particle can
be used to store information. If I recall correctly, one cubic
centimeter of this computing material would be at least as intelligent
as a human being and would consume no energy, except very minute amounts
to reset the input & output pins. The implications of this technology
are explored at length in Kurzweil's book.

Isaac's "Language"

Isaac describes a diagrammatic "language" or notation that is innately
functional and operates by utilizing some universal principle. What
could this universal principle be? Kurzweil's book references the work
of several theoretical physicists who believe the fabric of the universe
is not continuous, but divided into discrete elements. Specifically,
they see the fabric of spacetime as working like a cellular automaton,
which is an array of cells in which the contents of any cell at any
point in time is determined by the contents of adjacent cells according
to a small set of simple rules. Note that in cellular automata, time &
movements occur in discrete steps, like the moves in a board game. If
the universe is really a computer, then there should be ways to program
it. Isaac's "language" could be a way of doing so.

If Isaac's diagrammatic notation utilizes some universal principle to
function, then I would guess that sacred geometry and alchemical notations
are actually dim recollections of how this principle was applied in
earlier, more advanced civilizations. It's interesting to note that the
concept of such diagrammatic notations is finding its way into the
popular mind, e.g., the animated series Full Metal Alchemist depicts the
characters making "alchemist circles" in which they stand to perform
alchemical operations. Full Metal Alchemist takes place in another world
where alchemy is the high science."

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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #696 on: Sep 18th, 2007, 12:23pm »

on Sep 18th, 2007, 10:41am, drewlac wrote:
Marvin - Does it make a difference that the original Ty photos weren't taking with a digital camera? huh Aren't we working with scanned photos here?



Hi drewlac, I can not say if the photo with the trees was originally taken digitally. The trees (and now the drone) are at a very high DPI resolution. Try enlarging the trees (or the drone) in this high-res photo to produce the moire pattern. I can only go to 1600% and it just begins to appear.

I just can not explain why the drone is already displaying the moire pattern without enlargement, but you can start to create a pattern on the pattern (on the drone) by enlarging the high-res photo. I have been told... this should not be this way unless the drone was already enlarged and then paste to this photo. Scanning will not cause this to happen just on the drone, it would do it to the whole photo.
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #697 on: Sep 18th, 2007, 12:35pm »

hi latitude; I since you are a very patience person and very inteligent at that. thanks for puting that up again for me to read great post,some aditive for Isaac and the drone enigma. I am a student to those whom are experts in photargryphy been paying close atention to what is being said no coment, yet I am not one to argue or just say something just for the sakes of saying, but I do give creadit where its due, and I dont blame those whom are tring to weed out the bs if they find any thing as such of a hoax in any of the photos. from my dream out of my dream with chad photos will be the hards to find hoax.quote(where alchemy is high science). cool
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #698 on: Sep 18th, 2007, 12:50pm »

on Sep 18th, 2007, 11:22am, Latitude wrote:
Marvin,

You are probably correct that the case cannot be proved with what we currently have. But keep looking. You may yet turn up the small hidden clue that proves it one way or the other.

Moire patterns normally manifest themselves in images with straight lines. They will always be more easily identified among artificial structures for that reason and natural structures less so. When those straight lines are superimposed with the orientation of another series of straight lines (scanner lines) then a moire pattern is produced. The moire pattern may also be in the trees to some degree but it is much harder to detect due to the randomness of the branches and foliage and the fact that those are not straight and clearly defined lines. That's another way of saying what OTF already told you.

http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/0,,sid9_gci768750,00.html

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I just wanted to add that it is extremely easy to find the pattern in the low resolution photos, since they are of such a low DPI or poor resolution. Anything turns to (square) dots very quickly.

But if I understand what you and OTF are saying, you should be able to create the moire pattern in the high-res photo too, or it should already be visible. But, I can't do it (at least up to 1600%) and they are not visible.

It is impossible to create the moire pattern on the same photo twice, unless it is stored as a file at a higher resolution in between times. And you would expect to see the pattern everywhere in the photo, so if the "feelers" show it, I would think the tree tops would too.

We need the complete originals, or there is no solution to the issue. Come on Linda... let 'em go.
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #699 on: Sep 18th, 2007, 1:20pm »

on Sep 18th, 2007, 12:35pm, jugement wrote:
hi latitude; I since you are a very patience person and very inteligent at that. thanks for puting that up again for me to read great post,some aditive for Isaac and the drone enigma. I am a student to those whom are experts in photargryphy been paying close atention to what is being said no coment, yet I am not one to argue or just say something just for the sakes of saying, but I do give creadit where its due, and I dont blame those whom are tring to weed out the bs if they find any thing as such of a hoax in any of the photos. from my dream out of my dream with chad photos will be the hards to find hoax.quote(where alchemy is high science). cool


I do not blame true skeptics (I am one myself) for attempting to find "BS" in this case. As a matter of fact, I welcome it. Who knows? In a search for a smoking gun one may stumble onto a fact that proves more validity. But we need to be on guard for things that may on the surface look like they may be a discrepancy but in reality may simply be limitation of the evidence or an illusion.
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« Reply #700 on: Sep 18th, 2007, 1:26pm »

on Sep 18th, 2007, 12:50pm, Marvin wrote:
It is impossible to create the moire pattern on the same photo twice, unless it is stored as a file at a higher resolution in between times. And you would expect to see the pattern everywhere in the photo, so if the "feelers" show it, I would think the tree tops would too.


The feelers are straight and clearly defined lines. The tree tops are not. The reason that the hi res show less moire is because of the scanner. In hi res mode it uses more scan lines. It's the interaction between lines in the photo and the lines of the scanner that creates the moire.
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #701 on: Sep 18th, 2007, 1:40pm »

on Sep 18th, 2007, 1:20pm, Latitude wrote:
I do not blame true skeptics (I am one myself) for attempting to find "BS" in this case. As a matter of fact, I welcome it. Who knows? In a search for a smoking gun one may stumble onto a fact that proves more validity. But we need to be on guard for things that may on the surface look like they may be a discrepancy but in reality may simply be limitation of the evidence or an illusion.
just my thoughts.I welcome the same. grin
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #702 on: Sep 18th, 2007, 3:12pm »

on Sep 17th, 2007, 8:40pm, onthefence55 wrote:
Now, the question about the twigs looking natural, I think that since the twigs are oddly shaped, it is almost impossible to distinguish any naturally occurring "lines" in there. Any moire patterns or aliasing gets lost in the noise of the twig coloring and shape.

Seeing as we’re covering old ground, could someone help me to understand the blue outline?

If you look at this image it has three parts from the Big Basin hi-res (bmp) image. The ring with the paddle attached to it, the paddle and the trees that appear in the bottom right of the image.

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The top left (green tree) of the image is from a, "Non-Drone" image and I believe has what Nekitamo refers to as, “Purple fringing.”

on Sep 18th, 2007, 01:26am, nekitamo wrote:
There's nothing to explain. Purple fringing is a problem that no camera is immune to, it appears only at high contrast edges and this holds true in drone images. This argument was discarded long ago. Also, extreme digital magnification won't get you anywhere. It simply doesn't recreate details that aren't there to start with.

To further highlight the difference in the colours the text on the right has the blue outline and the text to the left has the afore-mentioned purple fringing.

"Purple Fringing" and Microlenses
Please OTF & Lat correct me if I’m wrong as I’m still learning, but I thought that occasionally chromatic aberrations COULD be purple in colour under certain circumstances, but I thought this was the exception rather than the rule. (And chromatic aberration occurs when one to all three of the primary wavelength colors (RGB) do not focus at the same destination point?)

I also read that "Purple Fringing" usually refers to a typical digital camera phenomenon that is caused by the microlenses. In simplified terms purple fringing is "chromatic aberration at microlens level".

As a consequence, purple fringing is visible throughout the image frame. (Unlike normal chromatic aberration.) As Nekitamo said, edges of, “Contrasty” subjects suffer most, especially if the light comes from behind them.

This is what (I believe) you can see in the trees that are in the top left of the image I included.

Yet, if you look at the trees in the bottom left of the image from the Big Basin image then you can see the blue edges are also prominent on the main branch of the tree, what is causing this? And I believe my old cohort Bakowsa pointed out this is exactly the same blue that is evident in the A1 anti-gravity device.

So Nekitamo, is this blue outline the, “Purple fringing” that you spoke of?
(Woo Hoo an oxymoron!! wink)

-------------------------------------------------------


This is the image that the trees are from.
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(To view the full image of the trees, click HERE.)

And here’s another example (horse!!)
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Full size image HERE.

And OTF, is there any (beneficial?) way to manipulate an image so that the, “Purple fringing” would become blue whilst not affecting (or enhancing) the object of the image?
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #703 on: Sep 18th, 2007, 3:20pm »

on Sep 18th, 2007, 12:14pm, Latitude wrote:
That's true. Is everybody listening?



So this letter from Arthur Reyes to Earthfiles.... looks very real to me, and it doesn't seem to me that he would be the hoaxer, honestly. Does he have an interest in all of the same things as this case? Yes. Does that mean he is the hoaxer? No.

Anyway, whether Dr. Reyes is the hoaxer or not... there is no evidential proof that it is a hoax one way or another, regardless of WHO did the hoaxing.

Please, Mr. Gort. If you have definitive proof, post it.
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xx Re: #5 THE DRONE ENIGMA A GLOBAL SEARCH FOR THE TR
« Reply #704 on: Sep 18th, 2007, 3:20pm »

on Sep 18th, 2007, 08:52am, Marvin wrote:
Hi Nodnunk, the issue is with the Ty high-res photo.

I was using the Chad photo as an example of what you would expect to see at a 100% "enlargement" and then an actual enlargement of around 300%. At 300%, one can easily see the "moire pattern" from "over sizing" the picture.



Hi Marvin,
The image below is from the Chad photo looking up through the drone ring at the prongs/birdcage - whatever on the top. I enlarged it enough to see the square pixels. But I do not recognize your "moire pattern". It looks like what I would expect from a digitized image. Either from a digital camera or a scanned positive print. If the original was a positive print, then a rescan at a higher resolution may yield more detail. On the other hand, the Ty prints, whatever their source, are just fuzzy.

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