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 sticky  Author  Topic: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Truth  (Read 1805 times)
DrDil
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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1485 on: Oct 1st, 2008, 2:41pm »

on Oct 1st, 2008, 2:32pm, Latitude wrote:
What does that mean?

Sorry, my bad it was 50%.

I.e. “don’t beat myself up” and “have fun with it”.
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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1486 on: Oct 1st, 2008, 3:22pm »

on Oct 1st, 2008, 1:01pm, Latitude wrote:
Well then. I guess that's enough to make you an expert about this guy's mental state and what he should have known. wink




I've hung out with these types of folks enough to know that it is like they are "hard wired" for certain things (such as meeting “minimum performance expectations”).

For example, I think you have heard of “performance enforcement” like this (said with enthusiasm); welcome to Boot Camp maggots… the first and last word out of your hole will be Sir! Do you read me?

Ya know what I mean? Cheyenne Mountain would be one of those “hard wired,” instant reflex, didn’t even have to think about it to know the name, type of thing. Kind of like field striping an M-16 blindfolded and putting it back together in quick order type of thing… but not in like “Mount Norad…” yea, I was one of those guys… type of thing. Yea, sure he was.

So is he lying about A-51… or is e lying about not working there and having no knowledge about it? One way or the other, you are going to say he is lying. One treads on thin ice to find any truth in a story based on the logic of “the lie.”

Again, I’m not suggesting any gullibility… it’s more like a difference in life experiences.


on Oct 1st, 2008, 2:23pm, Latitude wrote:

No. But I don't beat myself up on things like this AF guy. I quickly label it in my mind as inconclusive, have fun with it and move on.





Lat... we can find "middle ground" and "agreement."

There is nothing wrong with enjoying ourselves and see what ever comes our way.

We do not have to be in agreement to be comrades in this... who knows, maybe this is a puzzle where only one piece is true and ther rest is BS. Maybe it is all BS. We can still have fun with it either way.

Peace
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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1487 on: Oct 1st, 2008, 3:47pm »

I tried that approach earlier, it was unacceptable to lat.. now I ask why the change? Is this another case of be careful what you wish for? While ignoring the casualties along the way?
« Last Edit: Oct 1st, 2008, 3:48pm by tommi01 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1488 on: Oct 1st, 2008, 6:21pm »

One thing for sure we will not rehash settled issues like the photos and LAP.
Its quite apparent to reasonable minded people that
1. The photos were manipulated.
2. The youtubes are fraught with inconsistencies, that you most certainly do not require an expert to dispose of the authors thesis.
3.ts apparent also the DRt is at no time soon going to release anything else concerning Tom Vance, who basically debunked the locations and pointed out the real ones over 9 nths ago.
4. That the DRTs friend LMH will not release anything, despite the findings of hoaxed pictures.
5. That the Drt will not explain how the PIs missed the lamps and poles in San Jose yet they are found in abundance.

No answers were ever given publicly why DRT members Latitude /11 August Numbers felt it necessary to distort the description of the Chad location, to the extent DRT credibility is shattered.

So has anything come from there that has aided us in our searches for the truth?
Easy answer.
No.
Nor will we if this continues like this, get any.., as the answers we already have is an anathema to their very existence.

They isolated themselves, they had substantial proper funding to do things their way. We did not. We shared info, publicly, they did not.

Now, The issue is dead wherever you look because gentlemen, Members from Here, ATS, and OMf, and Paracast, Ufo Blog, The Graille, made it so.

Our concern, imo, being now , the hoaxters.

As for trust , thats up to each and everyone here , as we trusted marvin, Radii, Dr.Dil, and others who have kept an exemplary record of objectivity, they earned it.
How they treated the subject matter, as well as the people around them, whether they disagreed or not.

As for Latitude, he wants to talk, and he is well known, what his talk is..His mind is as he says made up on ETs. you simply give it the weight it deserves.

IMO, nothing wrong with that whatsoever..I defend that right.

But when one withholds or distorts information, that would point to a hoax to preserve a pre existing disposition to belief one way or another, then we have the right to be concerned with whatever is presented by such an individual, Its that type of myopic thinking that is the basis of that bandied about word..cult.

I certainly will not prejudge what he says now by his conduct elsewhere, nor even by what he said here, in March.
lets look at his state of mind back then, as a member here at this forum, not elsewhere.
color=Orange][quote author=Latitude link=board=isaac&num=1193353772&start=94#6 date=1199750313]
He compliments Dr dil on his skepticism..then goes on to say..

It is true that so many do want so badly to be the one to expose a hoax. It seems that is the only reason they hang around. I don't understand that mentality. I had evidence that basically killed the Staggs drone video and I was hesitant to say anything. I felt bad.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#6 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr on: 03/04/08 at 11:23am Started by Merlin | Post by Latitude on 03/01/08 at 07:46am,
In response to a question from another member

Well, we could judge people for forming their own opinions based on the available evidence, or (if found to be false) we could think the same as we would of those who fervently defended it at every opportunity, that everyone makes mistakes.
Of those who continually scream fake before all the info is in, I am making a list. You can bank on it that I will be the first to make light of them for being wrong. I will never let them forget it. They have in my opinion committed the worst offense against ufology. What we have are two types. The first is simply someone who can't resist the temptation to debunk. The second is those that hold a grudge against a case for not being everything they had hoped for.
They won't be given a free pass from me. They rolled the dice. If they come up snake eyes payment must be made


(emphasis added on points of concern.

Well, 6 months later, Now that the tests were done, and disparities and conflicts exposed..I hope he longer feels that way..

At least , I hope the answers should be forthcoming from either Lat or Tomi, as a sign of good faith,
As the The rest of the DRT do not provide answers,
Whether they do or not..We know what we must do..
to expose this further, so it becomes harder for them the hoaxters..to do it the next time.

TP



















« Last Edit: Oct 1st, 2008, 6:38pm by TeachersPet » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1489 on: Oct 1st, 2008, 7:03pm »

To say all is bs but prove me wrong is the cowards way. They know that even if the thing was true the proof would likely never come. Even if it did the excitement would be so great that they would be forgiven. Remember that false witness is a grave sin.
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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1490 on: Oct 1st, 2008, 8:41pm »

on Oct 1st, 2008, 3:47pm, tomi01uk wrote:
I tried that approach earlier, it was unacceptable to lat.. now I ask why the change? Is this another case of be careful what you wish for? While ignoring the casualties along the way?


I have missed you...as crazy as that sounds
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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1491 on: Oct 2nd, 2008, 01:56am »

Dunno, Marvin, a51 and the like I'm somewhat knowledgeable. But seems to me this thread is more desperate for input on the "drone enigma" don't you think?
As for my thought.. nothing new to add that I have read along the drone mystery line across the sites.
RSF
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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1492 on: Oct 2nd, 2008, 08:22am »

on Oct 1st, 2008, 3:47pm, tomi01uk wrote:
I tried that approach earlier, it was unacceptable to lat.. now I ask why the change? Is this another case of be careful what you wish for? While ignoring the casualties along the way?


I can answer this many ways, but let me boil it down to its essence.

The many times I have offered the “olive branch,” it was a conscience choice.

The response to the offer is also a conscience choice.

I take no enjoyment to see Lat banned. It does not advance research when Lev puts in a “stick” and stirs it around to create discord. It is not a fun thing to get into a tit-for-tat tag team battle that has nothing to do with subject at hand. Personally, I do not consider anyone on the forums an “enemy.” This is not a change on my side, I have advanced this in the past. At some point we must look in the mirror and realize we are the leadership in this area and “step up the plate.”

The offer is always there when anyone is ready.



on Oct 1st, 2008, 7:03pm, Latitude wrote:
To say all is bs but prove me wrong is the cowards way. They know that even if the thing was true the proof would likely never come. Even if it did the excitement would be so great that they would be forgiven. Remember that false witness is a grave sin.


I am not sure what you are trying to say Lat.

You did not respond to the issue of sorting the truth out of this (other than “false witness is a grave sin”).

Is the story about A-51 a lie, or is the statement that he did not work there and that he has no knowledge about A-51 a lie? Which is his false witness?



on Oct 2nd, 2008, 01:56am, RSF wrote:
Dunno, Marvin, a51 and the like I'm somewhat knowledgeable. But seems to me this thread is more desperate for input on the "drone enigma" don't you think?
As for my thought.. nothing new to add that I have read along the drone mystery line across the sites.
RSF


Hi RSF!

I agree the Drone enigma has been flat for a long time now, but this goes to the heart of how Lat interprets information and witnesses. Since he is investigating the Drone enigma, it think this is worthy of discussion since Lat brought it up, even though it appears a bit off topic.
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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1493 on: Oct 2nd, 2008, 08:40am »

on Oct 2nd, 2008, 01:56am, RSF wrote:
Dunno, Marvin, a51 and the like I'm somewhat knowledgeable. But seems to me this thread is more desperate for input on the "drone enigma" don't you think?
As for my thought.. nothing new to add that I have read along the drone mystery line across the sites.
RSF


Thats pretty much so, RSF , but as to enigma, its not an enigma anymore as the manipulation of the pictures takes it out of the realm of ;gee " possible and uncertain or inconclusive" like an uncertain blur on a real photo, into an intentional act to decieve in effect hoax.The failure of many like LMH, to release vital information and mislead observers , and investigators and even members either living at or having relatives directly near the scene of an event, all unaware of elements types of elements in their own environment , such as lamps and poles that were present in the photos, not even conducting searches in their own backyard, , over the course of an entire year and a half., takes it into pointing at a broad collusion. Now..thats the mystery worth investigating RSF . Don't ya think? How could such a synergy develop, considering no one knew each other?
The goal to keep it looking like a secret, when there was no secret, The real secret came from peoples heads, with substantial financial backing from "unknown sources and visible to only one side of the story help keep it " looking real" and in discussion and buzz. like a childs game, now you see it, now you don't oh where dit it go?Simple marketing. No mystery or enigma there whatsoever..

Thankfully since someone bought up the term false witness, I may as well add, yes, Thank God there is a power up above to assure , albeit, at great cost in personal time and effort , that it clearly went the other way to the real truth
It is said, if you take one step, He will take two.

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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1494 on: Oct 2nd, 2008, 10:45am »

on Oct 2nd, 2008, 08:22am, Marvin wrote:
I am not sure what you are trying to say Lat.

You did not respond to the issue of sorting the truth out of this (other than “false witness is a grave sin”).

Is the story about A-51 a lie, or is the statement that he did not work there and that he has no knowledge about A-51 a lie? Which is his false witness?


Well, I was really responding to TP's post where he quoted my old posts about habitual debunking. I really wanted you all to think about your own histories on the forums. When have any of you stuck your necks out for a sighting? When have any of you went out on a limb asking people to be open minded about a possible true sighting? I have never seen it. Only doing all you can do to shoot down reports. You always point out what's possibly wrong with a report. Have you ever pointed out what is possibly right with a report or are you simply nattering nabobs of negativity? Show me the courage!
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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1495 on: Oct 2nd, 2008, 1:17pm »

on Oct 2nd, 2008, 10:45am, Latitude wrote:
Well, I was really responding to TP's post where he quoted my old posts about habitual debunking. I really wanted you all to think about your own histories on the forums. When have any of you stuck your necks out for a sighting? When have any of you went out on a limb asking people to be open minded about a possible true sighting? I have never seen it. Only doing all you can do to shoot down reports. You always point out what's possibly wrong with a report. Have you ever pointed out what is possibly right with a report or are you simply nattering nabobs of negativity? Show me the courage!


I know we have had our disagreements, and I respect that you endeavor to find the real cases.

I do also.

I respect this.

I would hope that you do not allow the ban at OM to go permanent.

This is in your control.
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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1496 on: Oct 2nd, 2008, 2:14pm »

on Oct 2nd, 2008, 10:45am, Latitude wrote:
I really wanted you all to think about your own histories on the forums. When have any of you stuck your necks out for a sighting? When have any of you went out on a limb asking people to be open minded about a possible true sighting? I have never seen it. Only doing all you can do to shoot down reports. You always point out what's possibly wrong with a report. Have you ever pointed out what is possibly right with a report or are you simply nattering nabobs of negativity? Show me the courage!



Speaking for my self (and I am only claim to be speaking for myself) … I am very aware of my history. It is my opinion, differences occur because of methodology or approach. For example, you ask “When have any of you went out on a limb asking people to be open minded about a possible true sighting?” I would never ask anyone to be open minded on something without adequate grounds for believe, such as object evidence. I do not need to be a hero for ever “cause” that comes down the internet just because it might be true (The sun could go nova tomorrow, with our limited knowledge on solar cycles, that “might be true”… but I am not going to go out a ask people to be open minded about the possibility without objective evidence, there are things called reputations).

I only follow the trail of evidence… if it demonstrates a hoax, then you’re argument is with the evidence, not with me.

If I am pointing out what is wrong with a “report” (being in R&D, unfortunately this is what I do everyday), it is because I am following science. If you want to prove it is real, then try to first prove it is fake. If you can not prove it is fake, then you stand a much better change of it being real than to turn a blind eye to the issues and just “up hold” what ever supports your point of view (which are things that seem to support it is real). This is critical thinking. If you only look for validation of it being real, that is all you are going to find. In other words, if you are looking for your car keys… who will continue to look for them after they are found? The point is, once you have find what you are looking for, you're done.

But, if you are finding multiple pieces of evidence of a hoax, what does it matter if a telephone pole is real? Or if a leaf moves? When the witness story does not agree with their photographic evidence, you are only added more evidence of a hoax (why would the witness lie along with submitting tampered photos when it is a “real event”). Even after this, if one gives it the benefit of the doubt… and you are still overwhelmed because it smells like yesterdays dirty diapers… it is time to file it back and wait for evidence to appear that might help the case. Otherwise, it is dead… which the Drone saga has been very near to for months.

Sometimes it takes more courage to let go.

Lat, I would not tell you to stop investigating… and if you have evidence to breath life back into this case, I certainly have the courage to objectively look at it.
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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1497 on: Oct 2nd, 2008, 6:27pm »

on Oct 1st, 2008, 7:03pm, Latitude wrote:
Remember that false witness is a grave sin.


Give a person enough rope and I won't have to do it ...
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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1498 on: Oct 2nd, 2008, 6:59pm »

on Oct 2nd, 2008, 6:27pm, tomi01uk wrote:
Give a person enough rope and I won't have to do it ...


I'm not sure I get what you mean....are you saying you would hang someone who bears false witness?
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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1499 on: Oct 3rd, 2008, 06:24am »

on Oct 2nd, 2008, 6:59pm, ReDSKuLL wrote:
I'm not sure I get what you mean....are you saying you would hang someone who bears false witness?


la porta si apre dal dentro
la bugia ha le gambe corte
chi fa male cerca pretesto
come si semina cosi si raccoglie
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