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 sticky  Author  Topic: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Truth  (Read 1987 times)
RoH
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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Serach For The Tr
« Reply #225 on: Oct 12th, 2007, 11:27am »

on Oct 11th, 2007, 9:39pm, jugement wrote:
that fixs that ;good roh.cool cool.


Thanks jugement, I appreciatie your inputs! hey, what's that phrase again? mine your soul... cool

on Oct 12th, 2007, 12:09am, Latitude wrote:
RoH, I've been saying it for months now. I still don't like the looks of the bottom cage. I know many members thought I was nuts. That cage is creeping me out.


Yeah, there's something sinister looking with the cage structure, what purpose could it have? It's so alien, we can only imagine.
If you look at the different picture animations done of the BB drone, you'll see that there looks to be some kind of configuration going on in the cage.
And we know that there is other parts of the drone that have changed to a new configuration, from picture to picture, so this drone is alive! cool

Latitude, do you think it could be the smaller rings, from the other side of the BB drone, that we see?

on Oct 12th, 2007, 07:32am, Nodnunk wrote:
I never considered that we were seeing the top of the drone. It is in the sky and the photographer is on the ground, my bias was and is that we are seeing the bottom. And the long fin is pointing away. If we are seeing the top, then the drone must be tilted with the near part down and the far part up with the long fin to the right.

So the illusions show that it is a matter of perception whether we are seeing the top or bottom. We can never get agreement with such a fuzzy photo.


To me it looks like the photographer is standing on higher ground. And the photo is clear enough that we can see the spokes, look at the post from newtothis.

on Oct 12th, 2007, 07:37am, Nodnunk wrote:
This is another case of a fuzzy photo and individual perception.
Consider the Saladfingers video, he seems to have figured it out.


Looks like saladfingers perception, is that there are moving parts on the BB drone... but if they where moving/spinning like that, don't you think the people photographing it, would have mention it?

on Oct 12th, 2007, 07:38am, DrDil wrote:
Roh, while using this method could you still determine if any part of the image was CGI IF the image had been printed and scanned back into the computer?


I'll forward your questions to this PS expert I know, and I'll come back to you on this! but it looks like it could take some time, It's autumn vacation here now.

Quote:
Also would it show up as different if it was a CGI item placed on a CGI background?


I think so, if the two pictures have been saved/compressed sepretlly and then put together again, there will be a difference in the jpg structure/pattern, or thats what I've been told.
Hey, I'm no expert, but I know of one, and I hope he will take the time to explain this better for me, and I'll post it in the forum when he do.


Take a look at this video report on the drone case, that's more like it wink
(It's from July 24, 2007, so most of you have probably seen it)

Youtube link:
Strange Drone Craft... UFO






« Last Edit: Oct 12th, 2007, 11:50am by RoH » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Serach For The Tr
« Reply #226 on: Oct 12th, 2007, 12:36pm »

on Oct 12th, 2007, 11:16am, Latitude wrote:
Maybe it is perception but only that one photo has the bulge in it. Why don't I see a bulge in all of them?

How is the Saladfingers video relevant?


Photoshopped image from the Ty High Resolution photo provided by LMH.
Negative greyscale image, with high pass filtering. There seems to be extra stuff present not related to the eight curved prongs or to the central plum bob thing.

How is the Saladfingers video relevant? It's not. I retract the comment.

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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Serach For The Tr
« Reply #227 on: Oct 12th, 2007, 1:07pm »

on Oct 12th, 2007, 11:27am, RoH wrote:
Latitude, do you think it could be the smaller rings, from the other side of the BB drone, that we see?

Good job, RoH. That is the most likely explanation. The size does seem to match. Most likely a combination of the outer small ring and inner cage parts.

Quote:
To me it looks like the photographer is standing on higher ground. And the photo is clear enough that we can see the spokes, look at the post from newtothis.

Yes to me it looks like the photographer is standing on a hilltop or ridge. The drone is also tilted (other pics such as the Raj pics do show the drone tilts quite a bit. Remember the drone is not a terrestrial aircraft)

Quote:
Looks like saladfingers perception, is that there are moving parts on the BB drone... but if they where moving/spinning like that, don't you think the people photographing it, would have mention it?


That's the only thing I don't like about the Saladfingers video. He took too much artistic license and basically turned it into a fantasy with things like a fighter jet shooting down a drone. If only he would have did more homework and depicted the drone more as it actually would be. Salad is very talented with cgi but my opinion is he never quite understood the nature of the drones or was able to accurately assemble an overall picture of them in his mind. I would have done the video quite a bit differently. I think my version would show a more alien acting drone.

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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Serach For The Tr
« Reply #228 on: Oct 12th, 2007, 2:10pm »

Roh;Mind Your Mind For The Jewels Of Your Soul.I see that you know the good jewels of your soul,and do not have to do any digging for those jewels. grin
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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Serach For The Tr
« Reply #229 on: Oct 12th, 2007, 2:13pm »

At the bottom of the cage is a ring. Each of the eight legs is attached to this ring with a hinge. If you look closely you can actually see several of these hinges from the inside of the lower ring.

The eight cage legs are not attached at the top of the cage.

The inside components hold the legs in place when they are lowered. These parts also act as a holder for the lower ring.

The eight legs are able to be lowered down by their individual hinges to act as a 'stand' for the drone to sit on when it is in storage aboard the mothership.

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« Last Edit: Oct 12th, 2007, 2:16pm by urantia606 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Serach For The Tr
« Reply #230 on: Oct 12th, 2007, 2:30pm »

on Oct 12th, 2007, 2:10pm, jugement wrote:

Mind Your Mind For The Jewels Of Your Soul.

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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Serach For The Tr
« Reply #231 on: Oct 12th, 2007, 2:44pm »

I don't know if this is salient or not.

*********
Dragonfly or Insect Spy? Scientists at Work on Robobugs.

By Rick Weiss
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, October 9, 2007; A03



Vanessa Alarcon saw them while working at an antiwar rally in Lafayette Square last month.

"I heard someone say, 'Oh my god, look at those,' " the college senior from New York recalled. "I look up and I'm like, 'What the hell is that?' They looked kind of like dragonflies or little helicopters. But I mean, those are not insects."

Out in the crowd, Bernard Crane saw them, too.

"I'd never seen anything like it in my life," the Washington lawyer said. "They were large for dragonflies. I thought, 'Is that mechanical, or is that alive?' "

That is just one of the questions hovering over a handful of similar sightings at political events in Washington and New York. Some suspect the insectlike drones are high-tech surveillance tools, perhaps deployed by the Department of Homeland Security.

Others think they are, well, dragonflies -- an ancient order of insects that even biologists concede look about as robotic as a living creature can look.

No agency admits to having deployed insect-size spy drones. But a number of U.S. government and private entities acknowledge they are trying. Some federally funded teams are even growing live insects with computer chips in them, with the goal of mounting spyware on their bodies and controlling their flight muscles remotely.

The robobugs could follow suspects, guide missiles to targets or navigate the crannies of collapsed buildings to find survivors.

The technical challenges of creating robotic insects are daunting, and most experts doubt that fully working models exist yet.

"If you find something, let me know," said Gary Anderson of the Defense Department's Rapid Reaction Technology Office.

But the CIA secretly developed a simple dragonfly snooper as long ago as the 1970s. And given recent advances, even skeptics say there is always a chance that some agency has quietly managed to make something operational.

"America can be pretty sneaky," said Tom Ehrhard, a retired Air Force colonel and expert in unmanned aerial vehicles who is now at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, a nonprofit Washington-based research institute.

Robotic fliers have been used by the military since World War II, but in the past decade their numbers and level of sophistication have increased enormously. Defense Department documents describe nearly 100 different models in use today, some as tiny as birds, and some the size of small planes.

All told, the nation's fleet of flying robots logged more than 160,000 flight hours last year -- a more than fourfold increase since 2003. A recent report by the U.S. Army Command and General Staff College warned that if traffic rules are not clarified soon, the glut of unmanned vehicles "could render military airspace chaotic and potentially dangerous."

But getting from bird size to bug size is not a simple matter of making everything smaller.

"You can't make a conventional robot of metal and ball bearings and just shrink the design down," said Ronald Fearing, a roboticist at the University of California at Berkeley. For one thing, the rules of aerodynamics change at very tiny scales and require wings that flap in precise ways -- a huge engineering challenge.

Only recently have scientists come to understand how insects fly -- a biomechanical feat that, despite the evidence before scientists' eyes, was for decades deemed "theoretically impossible." Just last month, researchers at Cornell University published a physics paper clarifying how dragonflies adjust the relative motions of their front and rear wings to save energy while hovering.

That kind of finding is important to roboticists because flapping fliers tend to be energy hogs, and batteries are heavy.

The CIA was among the earliest to tackle the problem. The "insectothopter," developed by the agency's Office of Research and Development 30 years ago, looked just like a dragonfly and contained a tiny gasoline engine to make the four wings flap. It flew but was ultimately declared a failure because it could not handle crosswinds.

Agency spokesman George Little said he could not talk about what the CIA may have done since then. The Office of the Director of National Intelligence, the Department of Homeland Security and the Secret Service also declined to discuss the topic.

Only the FBI offered a declarative denial. "We don't have anything like that," a spokesman said.

The Defense Department is trying, though.

In one approach, researchers funded by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) are inserting computer chips into moth pupae -- the intermediate stage between a caterpillar and a flying adult -- and hatching them into healthy "cyborg moths."

The Hybrid Insect Micro-Electro-Mechanical Systems project aims to create literal shutterbugs -- camera-toting insects whose nerves have grown into their internal silicon chip so that wranglers can control their activities. DARPA researchers are also raising cyborg beetles with power for various instruments to be generated by their muscles.

"You might recall that Gandalf the friendly wizard in the recent classic 'Lord of the Rings' used a moth to call in air support," DARPA program manager Amit Lal said at a symposium in August. Today, he said, "this science fiction vision is within the realm of reality."

A DARPA spokeswoman denied a reporter's request to interview Lal or others on the project.

The cyborg insect project has its share of doubters.

"I'll be seriously dead before that program deploys," said vice admiral Joe Dyer, former commander of the Naval Air Systems Command, now at iRobot in Burlington, Mass., which makes household and military robots.

By contrast, fully mechanical micro-fliers are advancing quickly.

Researchers at the California Institute of Technology have made a "microbat ornithopter" that flies freely and fits in the palm of one's hand. A Vanderbilt University team has made a similar device.

With their sail-like wings, neither of those would be mistaken for insects. In July, however, a Harvard University team got a truly fly-like robot airborne, its synthetic wings buzzing at 120 beats per second.

"It showed that we can manufacture the articulated, high-speed structures that you need to re-create the complex wing motions that insects produce," said team leader Robert Wood.

The fly's vanishingly thin materials were machined with lasers, then folded into three-dimensional form "like a micro-origami," he said. Alternating electric fields make the wings flap. The whole thing weighs just 65 milligrams, or a little more than the plastic head of a push pin.

Still, it can fly only while attached to a threadlike tether that supplies power, evidence that significant hurdles remain.

In August, at the International Symposium on Flying Insects and Robots, held in Switzerland, Japanese researchers introduced radio-controlled fliers with four-inch wingspans that resemble hawk moths. Those who watch them fly, its creator wrote in the program, "feel something of 'living souls.' "

Others, taking a tip from the CIA, are making fliers that run on chemical fuels instead of batteries. The "entomopter," in early stages of development at the Georgia Institute of Technology and resembling a toy plane more than a bug, converts liquid fuel into a hot gas, which powers four flapping wings and ancillary equipment.

"You can get more energy out of a drop of gasoline than out of a battery the size of a drop of gasoline," said team leader Robert Michelson.

Even if the technical hurdles are overcome, insect-size fliers will always be risky investments.

"They can get eaten by a bird, they can get caught in a spider web," said Fearing of Berkeley. "No matter how smart you are -- you can put a Pentium in there -- if a bird comes at you at 30 miles per hour there's nothing you can do about it."

Protesters might even nab one with a net -- one of many reasons why Ehrhard, the former Air Force colonel, and other experts said they doubted that the hovering bugs spotted in Washington were spies.

So what was seen by Crane, Alarcon and a handful of others at the D.C. march -- and as far back as 2004, during the Republican National Convention in New York, when one observant but perhaps paranoid peace-march participant described on the Web "a jet-black dragonfly hovering about 10 feet off the ground, precisely in the middle of 7th avenue . . . watching us"?

They probably saw dragonflies, said Jerry Louton, an entomologist at the National Museum of Natural History. Washington is home to some large, spectacularly adorned dragonflies that "can knock your socks off," he said.

At the same time, he added, some details do not make sense. Three people at the D.C. event independently described a row of spheres, the size of small berries, attached along the tails of the big dragonflies -- an accoutrement that Louton could not explain. And all reported seeing at least three maneuvering in unison.

"Dragonflies never fly in a pack," he said.

Mara Verheyden-Hilliard of the Partnership for Civil Justice said her group is investigating witness reports and has filed Freedom of Information Act requests with several federal agencies. If such devices are being used to spy on political activists, she said, "it would be a significant violation of people's civil rights."

For many roboticists still struggling to get off the ground, however, that concern -- and their technology's potential role -- seems superfluous.

"I don't want people to get paranoid, but what can I say?" Fearing said. "Cellphone cameras are already everywhere. It's not that much different."
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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Serach For The Tr
« Reply #232 on: Oct 12th, 2007, 3:26pm »

Why go to all the trouble when you could just have your drone hover over the crowd or chase the suspect or whatever. Invisibility trumps camo everytime. That's why I think the drones are here because ET is running them. I think we humans may be interferring with the invisible part though.

HJ
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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Serach For The Tr
« Reply #233 on: Oct 12th, 2007, 5:54pm »

Whether Salads video can be seen creative as it not so important as whether or not it acted as an appeal a sort of draw for the lowest comment denominator. the majority.people who would say..yes..it was a fake all along. Reinstilling treatment of the the topic as a fanciful flight into fiction...obscuring the fact that it could be very real..or was at one time.."was at one time is importan"t..for if it was based on something real..then one would have to obscure the truth in a way that would not actually point to them to do that one would emply a group(s) to recreate..perhaps something similar..as Isaac had still retained contact with other members..they could he could "reconstruct" from old raw data what it would look like..or tie in what he had to the original pictures..you could then hide the Truth..in a "lie".. Yes..like a truck full of manure..the average person would say heck no.and walk home...the wise one would shovel it off..and ride away in a free pickup..
which would bring you all in..the persistent seeker.The ones with the shovels...the detail analysts..never giving up..removing the layers..one by one. finding from the info in the documents..plus developments such as Vonstern pointed you at in his works..and past works of others..,
as the coral castle builders, the dicynanin phenomena, the electromagnet drives, the crop circles.exotic concepts that are not so exiotic and that the PTB have already .the message being ..we have been visited..and we are among you..you do not have to look far and we are bringing changes to the Earth ..Pay attention to your Earth and your minds..and those that would enslave or destroy both., for they too tagged a ride on this bandwagon, this grand haywagon, actually quite a few in fact, clouding issues, confusing and demoralizing. no not fun and games, look past that ..join us , we are not Gods, but need you to help those helping it and the free minds that see ,..and you can be part of a new dawn
and hope for your planet.
As I see it in IMHO you are well on the way to doing that
so long as we look past the the little flea circuses that pop up along the way.

Carry on my Brothers and Sisters Carry on Keep shoveloping the layers off The cat is out of the bag and no one can stop us.
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« Last Edit: Oct 12th, 2007, 6:24pm by TeachersPet » User IP Logged

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Mmm, yes, very curious, very interesting....


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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Serach For The Tr
« Reply #234 on: Oct 12th, 2007, 6:44pm »

on Oct 11th, 2007, 9:35pm, RoH wrote:
Hope this helps some of you to see it better! wink

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I see what you are saying RoH. Great example as always! wink

Here is where I was going "wrong."

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The camera position is elevated, on the top or side of a hill, since there is a "valley" below.

The drone is in the upper half of the photo, making it possible the drone is above the camera level. The drone is above the tree line... adding to the probability it is above the camera level.

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When you look at the rest of the Chad images, the drones appear to be level (no tilting). In the above, the drone appears to be facing in the opposite direction of the photo in question. One can see the bottom of the drone and the shadow caused by the "inside ring."

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This is a close up of the photo in question, you can compare it to the photo above it.

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This is the area in question (at least in my mind), the odd shadow or dark area.

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I did not see the "feelers" go through this area. Therefore, assuming I am looking at the bottom of a level flight drone... that is not tilting (this would be the only Chad drone photo to do so)... it appears to have a mirrored image. But it is a very fuzzy picture after all.



If this is not a shadow from the bottom... what is this dark area on the sun lit top?
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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Serach For The Tr
« Reply #235 on: Oct 12th, 2007, 6:50pm »

Hey Roh,

What are those three mouse pointers doing in there? Are you trying to stir something up? wink grin
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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Serach For The Tr
« Reply #236 on: Oct 12th, 2007, 7:53pm »

Ahhhhhh, they are ahhhh... three leaning snow covered trees? shocked grin

How ya get three in there?
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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Serach For The Tr
« Reply #237 on: Oct 12th, 2007, 8:11pm »

I don't know if this has been mentioned or even thought about. It might be a bit silly, but. Did anyone ever consider that the cage might be shifting shapes in several photos is because it might be organic or something close to it?

Feel free to say no, it's just a slight bit of speculation.
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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Serach For The Tr
« Reply #238 on: Oct 12th, 2007, 10:14pm »

on Oct 12th, 2007, 2:30pm, DrDil wrote:
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hi dr dil,I was going to put you and latitudes name in their with Rohs name,cause you guys have jewels that are automatic,and readly accesiable for use prcise and right on point,amazing.some of us like my self whom is not good in grammer or writing,I understand quite well the way when you guys put something down ,about the drones.well apriciated trust me friends. keep, minding your minds for the jewels of your soul ,and you will give us answers about the drones we all can be comfortible with,one thing other a bout you three that is very unque ,you dont force an answer or respond without thinking . take care evey one. wink
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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Serach For The Tr
« Reply #239 on: Oct 12th, 2007, 11:55pm »

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/1805/ion.html
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