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 sticky  Author  Topic: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Truth  (Read 2242 times)
endzone
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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #930 on: Mar 28th, 2008, 12:28am »

I've never seen a support wire that could hold a curve like that unless another support was holding it at the curve point. I don't see that, do you?

You never fail to inform me Latitude!

Your current insights are great ones.

Thank you!

Oh wait, maybe those last comments might make people think I'm closed minded and always and only support anyone who claims real. But no big deal it seems to be catching on both sides. laugh
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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #931 on: Mar 28th, 2008, 04:13am »

on Mar 28th, 2008, 12:05am, Latitude wrote:
Where you see tethers I see conduits or who knows what else. I guess if your mind is closed to the possibility of the object being real then all you will see is support wires. But the fact remains that the lines are curved and therefore not supporting the arm.

You still don’t get it do you, I don’t see tethers I see possibilities when you evidently don’t see past the chance of them being real. Vonstern may well be right as IC or yourself may be right in fact the, “Conduit” may be the most exotic and complex piece of alien engineering we will ever see and never understand, this still doesn’t alter the fact that humans use wires to tether structures.

Which let’s face it was the premise behind all of this and one which you still can’t recognise, you’ve questioned my logic and I’ve tried my absolute best to explain it, unfortunately it appears as it was time poorly spent and indeed wasted as your inability to understand what I still believe is a valid point is becoming more puzzling than the Drone phenomenon itself.

It’s proven to be an exercise in futility which I won’t be repeating.

on Mar 28th, 2008, 12:16am, hjdelight wrote:
Too bad that human egoes seem to have over powered what was a real concerted effect to uncover the hidden truths here. Its not the first time and will not be the last, but regardless, it is sad in that it obscures the real prize. Sorry, please continue if you wish.

HJ

Sorry HJ!!
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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #932 on: Mar 28th, 2008, 08:11am »

Unfortunately, if one is truly being objective or free from bias, we have reached a time in history where any photographic evidence (that is unsupported by the photographer or eye witnesses) can no longer testify for itself as being objective credible evidence. Just about anyone, with the right software, enough time and money, can generate a photograph that can be very convincing… even to experts. If this were not the case, then you would not be seeing two “camps” of experts declaring that a particular photo is on the one hand authentic and on the other a fake (leaving the rest of us to gawk at the photo and scratch our heads). If the “experts” today cannot reach consensus (or worse... cannot discount it), where does that leave us?

Of course, we already know that we must have the eye witness… the one who took the photograph, available for interviews. Without their story and its details, there is no veracity to the photo. In other words, if there is no witness… one is simply left with a photo (and a lot of questions). How does one justify a photo alone (or a series of photos or a video) as being objective credible evidence, when even the experts cannot agree on it... or make a absolute affirmation?

I think it is important that we keep things in perspective. It is great to have an opinion as long as it is grounded in reality.

The reality is that the deck is stacked against those of us that are trying to prove the reality of the drones. We do not have any witnesses and we do not have the original photos. It is an unfair game.

Personally, I am waiting to see what the private investigators find in Capitola….
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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #933 on: Mar 28th, 2008, 10:36am »

on Mar 28th, 2008, 08:11am, Marvin wrote:
Just about anyone, with the right software, enough time and money, can generate a photograph that can be very convincing… even to experts.

we do not have the original photos.


I don't agree with these two statements.

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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #934 on: Mar 28th, 2008, 10:38am »

No real problem. It doesn't affect my high esteem for both sides and that makes it a little difficult to watch BTW.

HJ
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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #935 on: Mar 28th, 2008, 11:43am »

http://www.nbc11.com/news/15723429/detail.html?dl=mainclick

and more on earthfiles on the drone aswell..

peace

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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #936 on: Mar 28th, 2008, 3:16pm »

on Mar 28th, 2008, 08:11am, Marvin wrote:
Just about anyone, with the right software, enough time and money, can generate a photograph that can be very convincing… even to experts.

We do not have the original photos.


on Mar 28th, 2008, 10:36am, Latitude wrote:
I don't agree with these two statements.



As to the first part… it has already been well discussed and documented… for example:

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/762667/haiti_and_the_dominican_republic_youtube_ufo_hoax_faked/

Which used E-ON’s Vue 6 to generate it…

http://www.vue6.com/

Just about anyone can purchase this software and make a video like this. When I first saw it… I was impressed (even though this video does not stand up to scrutiny), maybe I am just easy to impress. Now apply this technology to a photo, and take the current debate by the experts over the Drone photos... can one accept the opinion or words of the experts that they “cannot discount it…” as being definitive prove that the photo could not have being manipulated? One would think, if they were sure it was genuine, they would declared it to be authentic… not be open ended and say that they “cannot discount it.” To me at best that would be like saying... it definitely might be an authentic photo (close... but no cigar).

For the second part... you’re not holding out on us, are you Latitude? If you have the original Drone photos… please share (I would assume the exif data is not going to say Photoshop). wink
« Last Edit: Mar 28th, 2008, 5:39pm by Marvin » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #937 on: Mar 28th, 2008, 6:15pm »

Far those who so admire Salad go here and learn how to promote yourself above the TRUTH.
http://www.rense.com/general81/cgd.htm

BTW this bit of posting is by no means the truth, but if it allows you to fill satisfied by all means accept it.
IC
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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #938 on: Mar 28th, 2008, 6:36pm »

If the Drones are an impossible technology, what about this:
http://gizmodo.com/368651/new-video-of-bigdog-quadruped-robot-is-so-stunning-its-spooky

Maybe just CG!!!
IC
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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #939 on: Mar 28th, 2008, 7:26pm »

on Mar 28th, 2008, 3:16pm, Marvin wrote:
As to the first part… it has already been well discussed and documented… for example:

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/762667/haiti_and_the_dominican_republic_youtube_ufo_hoax_faked/

Which used E-ON’s Vue 6 to generate it…

http://www.vue6.com/

Hi Marvin, did you know that video was one of mine? wink
(Although I suspect the user-name was a bit of a giveaway!! grin)
And I’ve always liked the film, “Bugsy Malone!!”

However I feel it’s probably a bad example to use as proof of how anyone can create a realistic faked UFO as its creator Barzolff814 is actually David Nicolas and is part of Partizan, which is an international community of film directors. It’s a France-based production company which is responsible for, Michel Gondry's "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind."

When contacted to verify the story, "Eternal Sunshine" producer Georges Bermann said it was all true, and that Barzolff was "an absolute genius" who could "make anything look entirely real."

I posted a follow-up post not long ago which revealed that Nicolas created (and released on YouTube) several prequels to the Haiti UFO clip and conclusive proof of the Haiti UFO being a hoax (for the third or fourth time!!) Anyway, for anyone interested then post is here, along with all of his previous hoaxed UFO videos. Also, I’ve just followed the link I posted at the time to the Partizan main site with all of Nicolas’s videos and they’ve since been removed along with all details of the hoax, which is strange as they were very proud of this a couple of months ago and it was heavily promoted……

--------------------
This reminds me Jugement, I’ve been meaning to tell you about this for a while.

One of his videos was the one that you took a shine to last year, can you remember the UFO (YouTube) video that moved how it had been described a Drone would move? (Except it was illuminated.)

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I think it was labelled on YouTube as, “Paris UFO”.
--------------------

Anyway, this particular one was one of the hoax videos that Barzolff/Nicolas admitted to perpetrating (if you follow the earlier link then the section is about a minute into the collection of Nicolas’s videos). Apparently the Haiti one in particular was research for a film he’s working on in which the storyline involves a man who hoaxes a UFO video. In an interview with David Sarno of the LA Times and after he released the CGI video of the, “Remote Control UFO” (which appeared to be operated by two old ladies) the LA Times stated Nicolas commented that the results of his Haiti experiment were:

Quote:
"Entertaining, thrilling, completely addictive, and a little scary."
The scary part, he said, was that in spite of the evidence, "many people refuse to believe it's a hoax."

I tend to agree with Lat regarding that to create a fake UFO image where the UFO shows any real detail is not as easy as many would believe, I was about to advise you to visit Truethers Blog as there were some fantastic examples of CGI (Drone) constructs evident but I just checked the link and couldn’t find any relevant images, but as I’m sure Truether/group will admit they look like CGI when compared to the original Drone images, or at least they look like a composite image in comparison.

smiley
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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #940 on: Mar 28th, 2008, 8:05pm »

An enlargeable image of our most complicated Drone is now back on our blog. And yes they look like CG which is one our our contingents regarding the original Drones. If CG it is not CG from an ordinary source, but something extreme and the why of it is just as mysterious as if the Drones are real and they may be.
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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #941 on: Mar 28th, 2008, 8:31pm »

on Mar 28th, 2008, 8:05pm, Truether wrote:
An enlargeable image of our most complicated Drone is now back on our blog. And yes they look like CG which is one our our contingents regarding the original Drones. If CG it is not CG from an ordinary source, but something extreme and the why of it is just as mysterious as if the Drones are real and they may be.
IC

That’s another fine model and exactly the kind of image I was talking about, the complexity of which just heightens any appreciation of the Drone images, whatever their origins.
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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #942 on: Mar 28th, 2008, 8:37pm »

on Mar 28th, 2008, 7:26pm, DrDil wrote:
Hi Marvin, did you know that video was one of mine? wink
(Although I suspect the user-name was a bit of a giveaway!! grin)
And I’ve always liked the film, “Bugsy Malone!!”

However I feel it’s probably a bad example to use as proof of how anyone can create a realistic faked UFO as its creator Barzolff814 is actually David Nicolas and is part of Partizan, which is an international community of film directors. It’s a France-based production company which is responsible for, Michel Gondry's "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind."

When contacted to verify the story, "Eternal Sunshine" producer Georges Bermann said it was all true, and that Barzolff was "an absolute genius" who could "make anything look entirely real."

I posted a follow-up post not long ago which revealed that Nicolas created (and released on YouTube) several prequels to the Haiti UFO clip and conclusive proof of the Haiti UFO being a hoax (for the third or fourth time!!) Anyway, for anyone interested then post is here, along with all of his previous hoaxed UFO videos. Also, I’ve just followed the link I posted at the time to the Partizan main site with all of Nicolas’s videos and they’ve since been removed along with all details of the hoax, which is strange as they were very proud of this a couple of months ago and it was heavily promoted……

--------------------
This reminds me Jugement, I’ve been meaning to tell you about this for a while.

One of his videos was the one that you took a shine to last year, can you remember the UFO (YouTube) video that moved how it had been described a Drone would move? (Except it was illuminated.)

User Image

I think it was labelled on YouTube as, “Paris UFO”.
--------------------

Anyway, this particular one was one of the hoax videos that Barzolff/Nicolas admitted to perpetrating (if you follow the earlier link then the section is about a minute into the collection of Nicolas’s videos). Apparently the Haiti one in particular was research for a film he’s working on in which the storyline involves a man who hoaxes a UFO video. In an interview with David Sarno of the LA Times and after he released the CGI video of the, “Remote Control UFO” (which appeared to be operated by two old ladies) the LA Times stated Nicolas commented that the results of his Haiti experiment were:


I tend to agree with Lat regarding that to create a fake UFO image where the UFO shows any real detail is not as easy as many would believe, I was about to advise you to visit Truethers Blog as there were some fantastic examples of CGI (Drone) constructs evident but I just checked the link and couldn’t find any relevant images, but as I’m sure Truether/group will admit they look like CGI when compared to the original Drone images, or at least they look like a composite image in comparison.

smiley



Was that you? shocked

grin grin grin

Hmmm, some of my memory must still be working (although I am still senile). You posted a great explanation some time ago... and it just looked so darn familiar. rolleyes


Quote:
I tend to agree with Lat regarding that to create a fake UFO image where the UFO shows any real detail is not as easy as many would believe, I was about to advise you to visit Truethers Blog as there were some fantastic examples of CGI (Drone) constructs evident but I just checked the link and couldn’t find any relevant images, but as I’m sure Truether/group will admit they look like CGI when compared to the original Drone images, or at least they look like a composite image in comparison.


I believe I said "Just about anyone..." I did not mean to infer that everyone can do it… I left it open ended on purpose. In other words, there was a heavy emphasis on “just about...” and then I followed it with some further explanations (like time and money... I assumed one would understand that some talent may be involved... or it could be bought with some of that money stuff). wink

But the point I was really trying to make is when we are faced with only photographic "evidence," due to the Photoshop/CGI world that we now live in… this photographic evidence is truly not objective credible evidence when used by itself. It really needs to be used in conjunction with the testimony of eye witnesses, in order to have any veracity... that can be further questioned and cross examined.

Otherwise, we are simply left with the empty debate of opinion that chases after moon beams. Which means… everyone comes up empty handed.

Hmmm, maybe that's the point of just releasing photos.
« Last Edit: Mar 28th, 2008, 8:43pm by Marvin » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #943 on: Mar 28th, 2008, 9:00pm »

on Mar 28th, 2008, 8:37pm, Marvin wrote:
I believe I said "Just about anyone..." I did not mean to infer that everyone can do it… I left it open ended on purpose. In other words, there was a heavy emphasis on “just about...” and then I followed it with some further explanations (like time and money... I assumed one would understand that some talent may be involved... or it could be bought with some of that money stuff). wink

But the point I was really trying to make is when we are faced with only photographic "evidence," due to the Photoshop/CGI world that we now live in… this photographic evidence is truly not objective credible evidence when used by itself. It really needs to be used in conjunction with the testimony of eye witnesses, in order to have any veracity... that can be further questioned and cross examined.

Otherwise, we are simply left with the empty debate of opinion that chases after moon beams. Which means… everyone comes up empty handed.

Hmmm, maybe that's the point of just releasing photos.

I thought that was your point and it’s one I agree with, it has been asked would any digital image ever be acceptable as proof of anything, I mean image data can be edited (Exif etc.) the image could be created, the digital fingerprints removed and then simply copied on to the cameras memory card.

I’m sure if it’s not already possible (which I’m fairly certain it is) then some time soon this deception would be capable of being performed without leaving any traces as to where the image on the memory card originated.

Frightening prospect, isn’t it? undecided

At least when cameras used film the defining parameters in any image analysis were far fewer and less complex, and if a negative was available they could be narrowed down to just a few possible explanations.

Ah, the good ol’ days….. wink
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xx Re: #6 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #944 on: Mar 28th, 2008, 9:58pm »

Another important point:
Most super detailed CG models are scanned (3D scanners) from the ORIGINAL or brought into 3D software from CAD blueprints. This is another avenue rarely traveled with the strange rush to call all Drones CG. Even if CG, were they scanned from originals or taken from CAD blueprints. This opens up many other questions. There has to be a why to this and that is what we are interested in. WHY, for what reason!!! In the Isaac documents we have bits and pieces were they 3D scanned and reconfigured by CG and placed in photos to provoke memories? According to LMH some witnesses say that is just what happened when they saw the Drones. Memories came back.
IC
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