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 sticky  Author  Topic: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Truth  (Read 113860 times)
Double Nought Spy
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1215 on: Jan 13th, 2009, 1:46pm »

on Jan 13th, 2009, 1:16pm, TeachersPet wrote:
ahhh now we are in same page
Albatross, you didnt jack anything bro..what were the other words you got from your tinkering..was that womn phrase part of that? or you just put that down. I would like to know so I can finish seeing what else I can get..Iisaaic was the first..what was the others. PM them if you would like.
Thanx!
@double
Again, it's like it's aimed at a TV audience ready and willing to suspend disbelief in order to enjoy the show.
that is so spot on..Ed woods did that..where he used scenes where cardboard parts of a cokpit would move, when they were not supposed to..but the audience suspends their finetuning for the rest of the pictures story..
It works too..of course movie critics have a field day with that stuff, as we do with this hoax..

I found a link at Newsvine.com, which is registered in Microsofts name..while looking up a character Mars had mentioned..Tom L vine...in one of his first posts at Paracast..and found an article among many about a hoax that was debunked in Oklahoma. Turned out the hoaxer was a student doing a psych paper on "beliefs despite the evidence"..along Gorgos theme..Really fascinating..I will add link to it ..in a bit.



TV shows will happily mess with anything from the way telephones actually work to fundamental parts of the US constitution in order to put on a good show. Movies are notorious for switching to some alternate laws of physics in order to make a scene work. A good example is "Mission to Mars," where some things are very realistic and other things are flat out absurd. That was a good movie, though, and it has one of my all time favorite scenes from sci-fi movies. After a string of disasters, most of the crew manages to land on Mars, somehow, and then walks to the earlier landing site with their essential parts and supplies on a sled made from a hatch cover. As the scene opens on that small group of people trudging across an alien desert with some salvaged parts that might possibly get them home if their luck improves, I get this amazing feeling of just how far out of range of any possible help the group is. And still they persevere. That's a powerful scene, even if they got there by completely bogus physics.
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Marvin
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Mmm, yes, very curious, very interesting....


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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1216 on: Jan 13th, 2009, 2:40pm »

on Jan 13th, 2009, 12:11pm, TeachersPet wrote:
I am curious whether any of those Fortunecity photos match in exif data any of the photos I sent you privately.
also no mention of what photos please..as I am getting more.
We are just comparing DNA figuratively speaking from Marvins work..there may be points of commonality in the strands. smiley





I am not seeing a link... which only means they used different hardware... but with the EXIF data being removed from thoses other photos (and the manipulation with the FC photos), there maybe something I am missing... but from what I am seeing, there isn't anything in common (other than the removal of data).
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1217 on: Jan 13th, 2009, 4:12pm »

Thanx Marvin..and thats Thats what I find strange..What are the odds of witnesses and sites all using different hardware , as if to say, we are not the same group..and all doing the same thing, stripping the data, as if they were all trained in the same school of thought or course of action. IE, CYA with different camera, like a different gun, .yet all stripped..They would anticipate someone like us saying ahh...same camera., but to hide, they all had to do same thing..They in effect are darned if they did or darned if they didnt change they camera type., but in my eyes, more darned when they did, as that makes somewhat less likely to happen. imo..of course. All different guns, and all had the serial numbers filed off. its a common modus operandi, with identical gun powder residue, adobe buckshot.
« Last Edit: Jan 13th, 2009, 4:15pm by TeachersPet » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1218 on: Jan 13th, 2009, 4:20pm »

What I think,

Is that the DiRT should release the exact compass direction of the Raj telephone pole. It wouldn't compromise their investigation any more than they have already by saying they found the pole.

Since they know the location of the pole, they can get a compass, and tell us exactly which direction West is on the telephone pole, and confirm the Raj lighting conclusions.

Lying would be a huge mistake, because I can find the sun direction in the last image DRT released of the pole. I can also probably read the tag number better, and make a phone call and find the pole myself. Surely DiRT could release a more clear tag number of the pole?

As for Isaac and PACL stuff...

Well, most of the LAP has digital "anti-aliasing" on most of its thin lines. This is a dead give away that the LAP was computer generated.

Also, since http://isaaccaret.fortunecity.com/ has 2 links for each image, one for "fullsize" and another for "halfsize", he would have had to used some editor too make the "halfsize" version of each image... I just checked one of the "halfsize" .jpg images, and there is no EXIF data.

This proves that Isaac edited the EXIF data of the "halfsize" images, before he uploaded the images.

« Last Edit: Jan 13th, 2009, 4:22pm by neveleeleven » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1219 on: Jan 13th, 2009, 4:20pm »

oops double post. i clicked quote instead of modify.

--ill add this--


I don't see how telling us the pole location could compromise their investigation. The hoaxers know where the pole is, DRT knows where the pole is, and they publicly acknowledged it... all they are doing is hiding the info from US, the poeple who have nothing to do with the hoax. For what reason??

As far as I can see the DiRT already compromised enough by publicaly telling people they found the pole, and telling us the location wouldn't do anything but hurt their "pro-real agenda".

All I see them doing is hiding information from US, since the hoaxers already know the location, and DRT already publicly acknowledge knowing...

This is getting VERY suspicious, as if the timing for the release/find wasnt already.
« Last Edit: Jan 13th, 2009, 4:33pm by neveleeleven » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1220 on: Jan 13th, 2009, 4:35pm »

thats interesting Nev on that antialiasing as I can't recall any of our "desktop" software in 1985 able to do that with our scanners or copiers. All we had was Wordstar,, with Lotus and Visicalc making the rounds. I can't recall any image editing stuff....I know aple was trying something in terms of desktop publishing as the HP laser came out a year or so after that.This must have been some really top secret stuff Isaac did this with.

It is, and I am findingg Mars behavior just as suspicious. Can't open his account, cant do anything to signal he is the Mars he says he is.
And even if he is..the fact that he knew one of the PIs. from years back...is troubling and suspicious, as he suddenly seems to have lost his passion for demanding a retraction from Linda..IN fact..The DRT won't even touch Linda..What could possibly warrant such a change.
I smell collusion to be quite candid.
« Last Edit: Jan 13th, 2009, 4:43pm by TeachersPet » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1221 on: Jan 13th, 2009, 4:58pm »

on Jan 13th, 2009, 11:51am, Albatross wrote:
In 1987 it would have been a heck of a lot quicker and easier, and common, to have just used a common copy machine, rather than a scanner.
If Isaac was in fear of being discovered doing something that might have got him SHOT, would he really take all the time it took in 1987 to scan something - first waiting long enough for the scanner to create a preview, which is a coffee/cigarette break right there - then scan it - lunch break - and then print it?
That's ASKING to get shot.

Hi Albatross.
I might not have been clear what the curiosity was for me. If we believe the story of course! I believe Isaac would have used a photo copier not a scanner back in 1987. Best as I can determine the output from that copier would be 300-600DPI. Now what was the quality of what he copied from? 300-600DPI original or another copy or copy of copy?? Now he keeps the photocopies 20 years and scans them to post on the web. It appears the high res web use scans are 300DPI. Are the end scans of a quality to be expected from a scan of a copy of a copy? I really don't know at this point.
I look at the halftone dots in the images because if originals are very high resolution and line frequency, the later copies or scans at lower resolutions may not retain them and the results would seem to be more posterization/banding and not halftones that are evident on the final scans. That's why I suspect lower resolution originals but then the final line art quality don't seem right to me. I need to do some scan of copies of copies tests.
I also see on some images areas that suggest the backside of the page had the black markouts. Would these be retained on subsequent copies - again I don't know.
I hope this makes sense and I'm not blowing more smoke or crazy as DoubleNaught thinks we may be! shocked

Another nagging thing is why Issac used GIF's instead of JPEG's for the drone images on his page. Another one of those inconsistent things that just chew at you. rolleyes
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1222 on: Jan 13th, 2009, 4:59pm »

on Jan 13th, 2009, 4:20pm, neveleeleven wrote:
What I think,
Also, since http://isaaccaret.fortunecity.com/ has 2 links for each image, one for "fullsize" and another for "halfsize", he would have had to used some editor too make the "halfsize" version of each image... I just checked one of the "halfsize" .jpg images, and there is no EXIF data.

This proves that Isaac edited the EXIF data of the "halfsize" images, before he uploaded the images.


Hi 1111, using jpegsnoop on the halfsize images shows editing as follows (PACL page 09):

Quote:
EXIF.Make / Software EXIF.Model Quality Subsamp Match?
------------------------- ---------- ---------------- --------------
CAM:[NIKON ] [E885 ] [FINE ] Yes
CAM:[OLYMPUS OPTICAL CO.,LTD ] [C700UZ ] [ ] Yes
SW :[Adobe Photoshop 7.0 ] [Save As 07 ]

ASSESSMENT: Image is processed/edited
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1223 on: Jan 13th, 2009, 5:10pm »

on Jan 13th, 2009, 4:59pm, DrDil wrote:
Hi 1111, using jpegsnoop on the halfsize images shows editing as follows (PACL page 09):



That basically proves that Isaac has Photoshop... cheesy

Photoshop is going for about $999 dollars in the US. Ouch..

Better hope Isaac didn't pirate that software.
« Last Edit: Jan 13th, 2009, 5:18pm by neveleeleven » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1224 on: Jan 13th, 2009, 5:17pm »

on Jan 13th, 2009, 1:07pm, Albatross wrote:
Double Nought Spy -

Okay, so we're all agreed this is a hoax then?
Sorry, this case is new to me (don't ask me where I've been the last year and a half - out to lunch, apparently) and initially fascinated me, but now I'm convinced it's a hoax and keep trying to come up with more ways to prove it.
Guess I've been beating a dead horse...
I'll stop now.

Thanks! smiley


Hi again Albatross,

Yes, all of the recent posters including myself have both feet planted firmly on the ĎHOAXí side of the fence.

Don't worry as it still fascinates me and Iíve always been convinced itís a hoax, yet Iím STILL trying to find irrefutable & undeniable concrete real-world proof (i.e. not centred on digital images) that itís a hoax. Not for myself because as I say I already believe it is, but personally speaking I would be happy if some kind of evidence was turned up that simply couldnít be denied by even the most devout believer of the Drones.

I wouldnít be sated, contented or finished with the Drones, Iíd just be at least momentarily happy. (I guess I wonít be satisfied until the witnesses/Isaac/hoaxers are identified).

However I donít hold my breath as the DRT have very recently turned up more real-world verifiable information and surprise, surprise it shows that yet another witness has apparently purposefully mislead and lied about the simplest of facts regarding his Ďencounterí with the Drone, thatís Rajman1977 who claimed to be in Capitola.

With Rajman though this is massively more telling/revealing than the fact that both Chad & Stephen had lied about their locations, the reason I personally believe this is because with Raj it was all about the details. Iíll admit that his was perhaps the most superficially believable account (but due mainly to this detail) an account which he later expounded on when he visited Open Minds Forum.

Every time a pro-hoax theory advocate would say that there are no verifiable witnesses then someone with the opposing viewpoint would always bring up the two posts that Raj made at OMF. So I think itís fair to say that those who believe the original witnesses arenít hoaxers also believe that it was the same Raj who claimed to have taken the images that was posting at OMF.

This presents a bit of a dilemma (again) for those who think that Raj was genuine as he also claimed to have contacted a local newspaper which when the private investigators researched this aspect it played out like a cloak & dagger style event adding further mystery to the Drones.

Latitude (UFOCasebook & DRT member) wrote at the time:

Quote:
Just wanted to recap this episode for everyone's edification!

First Tomi gets the name of the reporter who took the Raj report from a Sentinel staff person. This confirms the Raj claim that they did submit the report/photos to the newspaper.

But the name was slightly incorrect. 11August investigates and finds info about a mass layoff at the paper and determines the correct name and that this reporter was part of the layoff.

But it turns out the reporter was not laid off but quit shortly before said layoff. A law suit was initiated by the laid off reporters and the reporter in question refused to be part of it claiming to have quit for other employment.

The reporter turns up as an online reporter for a website.

The PIs locate this reporter down in the LA area and begin sending messages to establish contact. No responses come back. The reporter has moved in with parents. (I wonder what this new job was? Online reporting? Why move to LA to do that?)

So PI Frank drives down and pays a visit. He has a conversation with the reporter's parents and they are very cordial and tell him that she will return at 5 pm and they will have reporter call him. PI leaves and waits for the call. 5 pm rolls around and no call. 7 pm and still no call so PI goes back to the house, knocks on the door and no answer. The same vehicles are still there, no change. PI returns the next morning at 7 am but there's no answer at the door and all the vehicles are gone. The PI leaves a note in the mailbox, leaves and continues to email but no response, not even a no thanks, never heard anything about it. The PI goes back again at 8 pm and still no answer at the door and no cars present. He goes back the next morning and no cars out front but sees a sedan in the garage through the window.

During the 20 minute visit the PI had with the parents it was learned the reporter was not working but only writing for magazines.

This behavior makes no sense to me and indicates an obvious effort to hide something. But even if you do know something, why not simply lie to the PI?

BUT if the Santa Cruz Sentinelís demographic doesnít include the area where the pole is located, wellÖ..

Cheers.

(I see Tomi is online, I'd be interested in you take on this).
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1225 on: Jan 13th, 2009, 5:18pm »

The DRT are afraid to release the pole location because of the lesson learned when they released the Chad location. Remember all of the thousands of people that descended on the restaurant and compromised the investigation? Remember how so many people showed up that Chad freaked out and left? They don't want that kind of fiasco again, do they?........wait a minute, my bad, I think the only ones that showed up and compromised the investigation were 11A and Numbers! grin.......j/k! They will reveal the location sooner or later. wink
« Last Edit: Jan 13th, 2009, 5:25pm by Jeddyhi » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1226 on: Jan 13th, 2009, 5:19pm »

on Jan 13th, 2009, 5:10pm, neveleeleven wrote:
That basically proves that Isaac has Photoshop... cheesy


You're preaching to the choir!! grin

Cheers.
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1227 on: Jan 13th, 2009, 5:23pm »

on Jan 13th, 2009, 5:17pm, DrDil wrote:
BUT if the Santa Cruz Sentinelís demographic doesnít include the area where the pole is located, wellÖ..

Cheers.


DrDil,

That probably means the Raj. pole is in Santa Cruz?

We know it's not in Capitola....

« Last Edit: Jan 13th, 2009, 5:25pm by neveleeleven » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1228 on: Jan 13th, 2009, 5:28pm »

I think what the good doctor is saying is that if the pole is not in an area that is served by the Santa Cruz Sentinal, then we have another hole in the story! wink
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1229 on: Jan 13th, 2009, 5:39pm »

on Jan 13th, 2009, 5:23pm, neveleeleven wrote:
DrDil,

That probably means the Raj. pole is in Santa Cruz?

We know it's not in Capitola....


If Raj only lied a little bit and was a few miles away then possibly....

It does mean if it isnít in Santa Cruz that the whole PI/disappearing reporter was completely unrelated and the reporter probably thought they were the IRS, AND it means that either Tomi or the editor isnít being entirely truthful about the Drone been reported, AND it means Rajman1977 very probably lied about every aspect, the Flickr account being hacked (which was interesting whether people believed the images or not), and also if it WAS Raj who was posting at OMF (remember, he *was* well versed when elaborating on his original account) then weíve had the only ever verifiable contact with one of the original (alleged) witnesses and very likely the person behind Isaac & the Drones (or one of the main perpetrators).

I guess time will tell. smiley

Cheers.
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