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 sticky  Author  Topic: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Truth  (Read 4863 times)
TeachersPet
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1245 on: Jan 13th, 2009, 7:45pm »

We know he lied its a moot issue.

SidBought forth the proposition that there is something peculiar about the Blue Ts, and I agree..and which were explained away, without duplication of same effect, as so many things back then were, but are resurfacing .using several sheets as I suggest, to see if it could be repeated.. rather than saying something wrong with copier, or the scanner that copied the ciopy.the lid maybe that caused that. Thats like blaming and kicking the sidewalk after somebody trips on one..

Anyway, It looks like the T in the report cover is smaller than the Ts on the middle of the remaining sheets that follow. But it may be just my vision seeing that.I also note, that as he copied, there were sheets behind the one copied. Its my experience, and I am sure the rest of you as well, that we put sheets behind another sometimes to prevent things like that from showing up on the copy, or when copying an item smaller than the scan area like a license..so the black part does not come through on the copy.
It looks like links 2 and 3 may have had several copies one behind the other..So why would a T show up at all, unless they were on every sheet already as some paper is designed, or it was watermarked afterwards, as a copyright mark for example.

http://isaaccaret.fortunecity.com/pacl-q486-report-cover-fullsize.jpg note size here..
http://isaaccaret.fortunecity.com/pacl-q486-report-p2-fullsize.jpg then here
http://isaaccaret.fortunecity.com/pacl-q486-report-p4-fullsize.jpg and here
I can only speculate what the T can stand for..but won't at the moment. Radii said possibly Trial software..possible.
And Thank You Sidd for bringing that up again. The audience is far more receptive now than it was then smiley
« Last Edit: Jan 14th, 2009, 07:15am by TeachersPet » User IP Logged

Marvin
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1246 on: Jan 13th, 2009, 7:48pm »

on Jan 13th, 2009, 6:47pm, DrDil wrote:

Hi Marv!!

I apologise in advance as I must be having a slow day!! grin

*save as* & *save for web* are completely different options, is this the difference you are seeing?

I’ve overlaid my image of the Exif data for the CGI rendering you posted after it was *saved as* in Photoshop and highlighted it in yellow.

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I’ve highlighted in red what I thought was the information you are saying is missing in both images.

What’s the difference? (Note *save as* not *save for web*)

Cheers.




I think it has been a long day.


on Jan 13th, 2009, 6:19pm, Marvin wrote:
You will notice that <snip>

“Save For Web 060”

There is no such data in the p119 Jpegs… that data or info is not there.


I have been playing with this stuff too… I even tried to zip the photo to see if this info maybe removed when zipped (no, it is left intact).

I do not know how many times the Jpeg would have to be opened (edited), “Save For Web,” opened again (edited) and saved to leave the data in the condition it is in. A specific order (of opening, editing, saving) would have to have been established and followed. But if this indeed was the process, no one can say that it was not intentionally performed (like I said, this required human intervention). Or… a separate software EXIF strip was performed (outside of Photoshop) and then edited in Photoshop.

Either way, it looks less and less like an “innocent” posting of pictures as evidence on the Web.


Edit to add... the camera info [RAW]... I think you will find Photoshop can import "raw" photo data (although there are no standards for this). Consider this, these two are the same image… one is just smaller than the other. There should not be a difference (as in missing camera data) between the two since the Jpeg keep an active record of the modifications it goes through. The record is altered on the full sized version to no longer have the camera data. That was what I was referring to.




I think this answers your question... just let me know (I will have "new eyes" and a clear mind in the morning. wink
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1247 on: Jan 13th, 2009, 7:58pm »

I think GafMad woud say the same thing too.
Get Rest Marvin....
..^i^
Sys
« Last Edit: Jan 13th, 2009, 8:21pm by TeachersPet » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1248 on: Jan 13th, 2009, 10:04pm »

I did some quick tests using my scanner and laser printer trying to simulate a photocopy of a document and later scan.
I created some text and line art in Corel Draw trying to draw it as close to possible as the original of PACL-LANG pg.22. I kept it simple to minimize having to create a lot of elements. I stayed with some text, lines and easy shapes. WIsh I had all the drone fonts to use at small size.

I printed the section out at 1200DPI, 600DPI and 300DPI on an HP laser. I then scanned as a text/line drawing (most likely the copier setting) at 600 and 300DPI and printed out at same resolutions trying to duplicate a copier output. I then scanned each printout as a black & white document since that was what Isaac's looked like. Results were pasted on PACL-LANG pg.22 to try and show comparison. Some compression was used to keep file sizes reasonable.

It's a crude quick test with some broad assumptions but my conclusion is that if we follow the Isaac tale it had to have been a very high resolution original (600-1200DPI) he copied. I'd go as far as saying I doubt it was another copy. More like a printed document. The line art ends up being so fine and small at 1200DPI you need a loupe to really see it all. Text is ultra fine. The copier had to have been 600DPI or higher. My tests show that as resolution goes down the line thicknesses really increase. Maybe I could have tweaked things a bit more but have limited time. I don't know how the halftones play into this. Maybe this will prompt some other ideas. Anyway I think I answered questions I had. Of course it's all a mute point if the scan was just made from someones 1200DPI laser printout of whatever software they created it all with. tongue

Added: Not surprisingly, a 300DPI scan (I did not post that) of the 1200DPI original looks the closest match and my bet for what was done. I can't see how a scan of a 1987 photocopy could produce such fine text and line art.
Pictures below.

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« Last Edit: Jan 13th, 2009, 10:36pm by Katterfelto » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1249 on: Jan 14th, 2009, 02:58am »

Here you go TP another possible road to travel.. wink

One more thing to throw in the mix about that BLUE T....I have been reading up on watermarks and found this site and many others talking about the Blue Channel used for watermarks......
Is this a reason for the Blue T?
Does this T show up because it already exsisted on the paper before the scan thus showing up even more when scanned?

Quote:
[Martin Kutter] In 1997 we suggested to use the blue channel to embed a spread spectrum based watermark into an image (see http://ltssg3.epfl.ch:1248/kutter/watermarking, M. Kutter, F. Jordan, F. Bossen, "Digital signature of color
images using amplitude modulation"). The blue channel was used because the HVS is less sensitive to blue colors due to the fact that the blue cones (S-cones) are less densely distributed than the green and red cones (M-, L-cones) in
the foveal part of the human retina. Since then, we made numerous subjective tests and found that in average the
energy of a blue channel watermark is up to 50 times larger than the energy of a luminance watermark, of course both introducing visually equivalent artifacts. This implies that the blue channel watermark is more robust towards
attacks such as filtering (averaging, median, ...) and additive noise. Furthermore, we found that under lossy JPEG compression both approaches are approximately equivalent. However, one problem that goes with blue channel watermarks
is that it is more difficult to control, or predict, the artifacts. That is, the visibility of a luminance watermark
is more homogeneous and less dependent on the image colors. Therefore, the design of blue (or any other color) channel watermarks is more delicate and requires sophisticated models of the HVS to optimally adapt the watermark to the local contrast, intensity, and color.


This is where the quote is from..
http://www.watermarkingworld.org/faq.html
« Last Edit: Jan 14th, 2009, 03:51am by Radi » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1250 on: Jan 14th, 2009, 07:37am »

on Jan 13th, 2009, 7:45pm, TeachersPet wrote:
SidBought forth the proposition that there is something peculiar about the Blue Ts, and I agree..and which were explained away, without duplication of same effect, as so many things back then were, but are resurfacing .using several sheets as I suggest, to see if it could be repeated.. rather than saying something wrong with copier, or the scanner that copied the ciopy.the lid maybe that caused that. Thats like blaming and kicking the sidewalk after somebody trips on one..

Anyway, It looks like the T in the report cover is smaller than the Ts on the middle of the remaining sheets that follow. But it may be just my vision seeing that.I also note, that as he copied, there were sheets behind the one copied. Its my experience, and I am sure the rest of you as well, that we put sheets behind another sometimes to prevent things like that from showing up on the copy, or when copying an item smaller than the scan area like a license..so the black part does not come through on the copy.
It looks like links 2 and 3 may have had several copies one behind the other..So why would a T show up at all, unless they were on every sheet already as some paper is designed, or it was watermarked afterwards, as a copyright mark for example.

I can only speculate what the T can stand for..but won't at the moment. Radii said possibly Trial software..possible.
And Thank You Sidd for bringing that up again. The audience is far more receptive now than it was then smiley



Here is an enhanced look at http://isaaccaret.fortunecity.com/pacl-q486-report-p2-fullsize.jpg :

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1251 on: Jan 14th, 2009, 07:55am »

Gee Thanx Marvin. Odd I just thought something: about how the military didnt want them to even say or discuss the word "extra terrestial" and its all in there. Wouldn't an extra layer of precaution have been not to even include it in the report? In fact it would have been marked off starting with the cover report in black marker.
Bringing up Rads point, the blue channel watermarking was proposed then in the mid 1990s..which like the use of that font that Zen_Anarchist noted in illustrator and brung up at ATS, would invalidate this as a 1987 report..
Thats IF that T is what that is, then it is a mark to show unique and original possession that its his, as any copies of the source at Isaaccaret would show it. even if using seperate cut and paste he could sue as he has that mark along with original date of publishing including the caveat to keep it together..or its not free. ie "as long as".
Thats not ambiguous to me..its clear and binding.

« Last Edit: Jan 14th, 2009, 08:14am by TeachersPet » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1252 on: Jan 14th, 2009, 08:07am »

on Jan 14th, 2009, 02:58am, Radi wrote:
Here you go TP another possible road to travel.. wink

One more thing to throw in the mix about that BLUE T....I have been reading up on watermarks and found this site and many others talking about the Blue Channel used for watermarks......
Is this a reason for the Blue T?
Does this T show up because it already exsisted on the paper before the scan thus showing up even more when scanned?



This is where the quote is from..
http://www.watermarkingworld.org/faq.html




It has also been brought up, that it maybe a holder for slides/negatives showing through the paper (in some older models of scanners... it was a "T" shape). with the blue showing around the edges... who knows.

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1253 on: Jan 14th, 2009, 08:16am »

But was that cover sheet T smaller than the T in the center sheets..why would the holder change size..and why would he need a holder in the middle of a rushed..smuggling..
I think that prospect would be unlikely unles someone gives visual example. I can't visualize that with sheets on top of each other in the middle of rushed copying the..most of these copiers also had multipage feeders anyway, along with stapling and would have zipped thru rather than this one at a time flipping pages. like copy a binded book..Res was not what it is now, but the physical document handling of those machines , especially at Parc establishment would have been excellent. After all they were gered to doing presentations , therefore require those amenities..therefore a lot faster than doing it how he did it. Why choose a slow and sloppy way with guards outside or crammed if it was his home scanner. The intended effect was to make it looked rushed..but the use of that effect, also precludes a see thru mark like that from an onject on top of the stack showing thru.
.Anyway...My vision is really starting to fail me
« Last Edit: Jan 14th, 2009, 08:25am by TeachersPet » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1254 on: Jan 14th, 2009, 08:38am »

on Jan 14th, 2009, 08:16am, TeachersPet wrote:
But was that cover sheet T smaller than the T in the center sheets..why would the holder change size..and why would he need a holder in the middle of a rushed..smuggling..
I think that prospect would be unlikely unles someone gives visual example. I can't visualize that with sheets on top of each other in the middle of rushed copying the..most of these copiers also had multipage feeders anyway, along with stapling and would have zipped thru rather than this one at a time flipping pages. like copy a binded book..Res was not what it is now, but the physical document handling of those machines , especially at Parc establishment would have been excellent. After all they were gered to doing presentations , therefore require those amenities..therefore a lot faster than doing it how he did it. Why choose a slow and sloppy way with guards outside or crammed if it was his home scanner. The intended effect was to make it looked rushed..but the use of that effect, also precludes a see thru mark like that from an onject on top of the stack showing thru.
.Anyway...My vision is really starting to fail me




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The T is the same size and in the location in each photo (no matter what the orientation of the page... notice page 4 is crooked).

Therefore, I think it is a scanner artifact.
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1255 on: Jan 14th, 2009, 11:58am »

Thanx Marvin for That and your analysis..If stationary despite orientation..indeed a scanner artifact, I have googled extensively and can't find anything that would leave a mark like that, like from the lid on a transparency. given that Isaac said they got them everything they wanted..why have a primitive copier like that in the place, at or near xerox-Parc the mother of all copy technology, to duplicate fine diagrams, AND prepare quarterly reports leaving bizarre artifacts like that showing up as blue and not blackish, or if short on ink , then the text would have been affected too.

Yes, on Mars Ave..I see where I confused Step and Ty, but the rest of his story , I will say it right now.. is a crock..he knew the Pis, then was on hiatus, family death, didn't care, now all of a sudden he is neck deep in investigation, I don't believe it..neck deep in this case, just like Numbers, yes, but not in an investigation.
Thats one vapor trail doesn't make sense to me.
and releasing anymore info prob would expose this fully for what it was AND who the puppets in this story always were. Sid asked the question whether he was the source for mystery witness x..and never got an answer..Here he claims he is privy to some of his own findings, as if dangling a carrot before us.
Thats my opinion
« Last Edit: Jan 14th, 2009, 12:40pm by TeachersPet » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1256 on: Jan 14th, 2009, 12:40pm »

on Jan 14th, 2009, 08:38am, Marvin wrote:
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The T is the same size and in the location in each photo (no matter what the orientation of the page... notice page 4 is crooked).

Therefore, I think it is a scanner artifact.


Thanks Marvin...Don't know if you have every looked at this one but its always bugged me....If you remember or seen this possible scanner artifact or accidentally put there artifact in the LAP.....

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The reason it bugs me is its ONLY found in the LAP..When you line up the artifact it seems like the LAP could be more then once copied....With the T flipping orientation...
Any thoughts?




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« Last Edit: Jan 14th, 2009, 12:45pm by Radi » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1257 on: Jan 14th, 2009, 1:14pm »

That is eerie Radi.. Great observation..and one shot looks like a barbell like not just a T and why is one page almost smeared totally in blue? why am I asking..Its on your minds as well..cheesy
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1258 on: Jan 14th, 2009, 1:41pm »

on Jan 14th, 2009, 12:40pm, Radi wrote:
Thanks Marvin...Don't know if you have every looked at this one but its always bugged me....If you remember or seen this possible scanner artifact or accidentally put there artifact in the LAP.....

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The reason it bugs me is its ONLY found in the LAP..When you line up the artifact it seems like the LAP could be more then once copied....With the T flipping orientation...
Any thoughts?




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It is the color blue because Isaac was using a color scanner to scan a monochromatic document.

The T may be related to the mil thickness of the paper document being copied.


@Radi,

The "T" appears to be oriented with the page... make the "T" upright and the page will be oriented correctly to read. I would guess that is the way the pages were scanned in.


That "incomplete football" had been spotted sometime ago... another scanner artifact (maybe on the glass). IMHO.

Best Regards,

Marvin
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1259 on: Jan 14th, 2009, 2:11pm »

so that he used a home color scanner to scan the original monochrome into his computer perhaps just before he setup website or rather to c2c , that whole package and email it..
Ok so we can be blame his home scanner as opposed to that Parc/pacl one, which having worked with large and mid size copiers, I never say that problem with those..home scanners aare a different story obviously. We did have a poster who was an expert copy man..but he is gone..Can't blame him either.
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