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 sticky  Author  Topic: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Truth  (Read 114771 times)
TeachersPet
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1260 on: Jan 14th, 2009, 2:14pm »

so that he used a home color scanner to scan the original monochrome into his computer perhaps just before he setup website or rather to c2c , that whole package and email it..
Ok so we can be blame his home scanner as opposed to that Parc/pacl one, which having worked with large and mid size copiers, in the 70s and eighties..I never saw that problem with those, except when I had a document I had shaded a part of in greycale in word, , copied in color mode, not BW , and the shaded part would come out with yellow green and blue striations.. while the remaining unshaded was crispy white and black no blue tinges whatsoever.. I just repeated that on a Ricoh Office Copier..a moment ago..perhaps I am missing a step he did..as thats the output in print, and he would have to have rescanned the output..into his PC..why he didnt scan in greyscale to begine with , if he had a home flatbed is another question..its a routine thing to do..
Home scanners must a different story obviously. We did have a poster who was an expert copy man..but he is gone..Can't blame him either. I hope Sid is reading so we can get a take his thoughts too...
Again Thanks Marv and Radi for your time and outstanding insights, and continue that other line of inquiry you suggested in PM. smiley
« Last Edit: Jan 14th, 2009, 2:45pm by TeachersPet » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1261 on: Jan 14th, 2009, 2:45pm »

on Jan 14th, 2009, 2:14pm, TeachersPet wrote:
so that he used a home color scanner to scan the original monochrome into his computer perhaps just before he setup website or rather to c2c , that whole package and email it..
Ok so we can be blame his home scanner as opposed to that Parc/pacl one, which having worked with large and mid size copiers, in the 70s and eighties..I never saw that problem with those, except when I had a document I had shaded a part of in greycale in word, , copied in color mode, not BW , and the shaded part would come out with yellow green and blue striations.. while the remaining unshaded was crispy white and black no blue tinges whatsoever.. I just repeated that on a Ricoh Office Copier..a moment ago..perhaps I am missing a step he did..as thats the output in print, and he would have to have rescanned the output..into his PC..why he didnt scan in greyscale to begine with , if he had a home flatbed is another question..its a routine thing to do..
Home scanners must a different story obviously. We did have a poster who was an expert copy man..but he is gone..Can't blame him either. I hope Sid is reading so we can get a take his thoughts too...
Again Thanks Marv and Radi for your time and outstanding insights.



If you look at the photos:

http://isaaccaret.fortunecity.com/pacl-q486-photo-1-fullsize.jpg
http://isaaccaret.fortunecity.com/pacl-q486-photo-2-fullsize.jpg
http://isaaccaret.fortunecity.com/pacl-q486-photo-3-fullsize.jpg
http://isaaccaret.fortunecity.com/pacl-q486-photo-4-fullsize.jpg

They show no sign the the blue "T."
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1262 on: Jan 14th, 2009, 3:29pm »

My we have a finicky scanner
grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin
« Last Edit: Jan 14th, 2009, 3:30pm by TeachersPet » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1263 on: Jan 14th, 2009, 4:07pm »

on Jan 14th, 2009, 3:29pm, TeachersPet wrote:
My we have a finicky scanner
grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin



I know this will come as no surprise on these scanned photos (they are scanned, you can see dust/lint in them):


*** Searching Compression Signatures ***

Signature: 014C6C24A9EE0C6BDCC1598CEECCE808
Signature (Rotated): 014C6C24A9EE0C6BDCC1598CEECCE808
File Offset: 0 bytes
Chroma subsampling: 1x1
EXIF Make/Model: NONE
EXIF Makernotes: NONE
EXIF Software: NONE

Searching Compression Signatures: (3314 built-in, 0 user(*) )

EXIF.Make / Software EXIF.Model Quality Subsamp Match?
------------------------- ----------------------------------- ---------------- --------------
SW :[Adobe Photoshop ] [Save As 11 ]

ASSESSMENT: Image is processed/edited



The EXIF is stripped, they have Adobe Photoshop signatures, quality save as 11 (not Web).

Does anyone else see a pattern to the drones? They seem to be made in the desert (of adobe). grin
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1264 on: Jan 14th, 2009, 4:36pm »

on Jan 14th, 2009, 4:07pm, Marvin wrote:
I know this will come as no surprise on these scanned photos (they are scanned, you can see dust/lint in them):

*** Searching Compression Signatures ***

Signature: 014C6C24A9EE0C6BDCC1598CEECCE808
Signature (Rotated): 014C6C24A9EE0C6BDCC1598CEECCE808
File Offset: 0 bytes
Chroma subsampling: 1x1
EXIF Make/Model: NONE
EXIF Makernotes: NONE
EXIF Software: NONE

Searching Compression Signatures: (3314 built-in, 0 user(*) )

EXIF.Make / Software EXIF.Model Quality Subsamp Match?
------------------------- ----------------------------------- ---------------- --------------
SW :[Adobe Photoshop ] [Save As 11 ]

ASSESSMENT: Image is processed/edited

The EXIF is stripped, they have Adobe Photoshop signatures, quality save as 11 (not Web).

Does anyone else see a pattern to the drones? They seem to be made in the desert (of adobe). grin

Hi Marv smiley,

Initially I thought it was me who was mistaken but after reading your last comment I’m not so sure. It doesn’t matter either way of course so this is the last time I’ll mention it (promise!! cheesy)

Remember I wrote:

on Jan 13th, 2009, 6:47pm, DrDil wrote:

*save as* & *save for web* are completely different options, is this the difference you are seeing?

I’ve overlaid my image of the Exif data for the CGI rendering you posted after it was *saved as* in Photoshop and highlighted it in yellow.

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I’ve highlighted in red what I thought was the information you are saying is missing in both images.

What’s the difference? (Note *save as* not *save for web*)

So in your most recent comment when you say:
The EXIF is stripped, they have Adobe Photoshop signatures, quality save as 11 (not Web).

This is what I have been repeatedly and oh so clumsily trying to highlight.....

1) If I take a photograph with my camera or scan a document.
2) Transfer/save it to my PC.
3) Open in Photoshop.
4) Save as (whatever quality) ~ Not *save for web*

Then the EXIF/ICPT (meta)data for the image would show exactly what it does. This is why I was asking what it was you were seeing but as I say it doesn’t matter anyway as ultimately our conclusions are the same.

(I just thought you were seeing something that I wasn’t).

Cheers. smiley

(EDIT TO ADD)
Here’s a screen capture of the pertinent section including the image in a similar style to which you posted.

This was the CGI image you posted that had many varied (possible) software signatures.

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All I’ve done is use the *save as* command in PS and all of the data disappears.

Apart from the tag that seem to be causing you the concern.

So, in summary then I guess this is (still) exactly the metadata that I would expect an image that has been opened & re-saved in PS to display. smiley
« Last Edit: Jan 14th, 2009, 5:02pm by DrDil » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1265 on: Jan 15th, 2009, 07:31am »

The DRT forum and ovnis-USA has been offline since last night! Wonder what is going on? Let me guess, since they were so close to the truth, the mean nasty US government took their sites down. grin
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1266 on: Jan 15th, 2009, 07:49am »

No, they just went invisible and you need your decoder ring with the secret code to log in, thats all no big conspiricy here.

Tom Corbet Space Cadet and the Attack of the Alien Drones
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TeachersPet
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1267 on: Jan 15th, 2009, 07:50am »

Maybe ITS A TRAP!!!

Or just a mundane reason
Both?..maybe they had technical difficulties..like an inability to speak the the whole truth. Nemo said he was going to wait for the fox thing to come out.

This is exquisite..I was wondering why Tomi stopped all of a sudden..

Maybe they will reincarnate into the DronehoaxResearchTeam.

and say that was their plan all along..

grin grin grin
Isaac was still up last night..let me check again.
But you can bet the farm they will be back under different names..I can't blame them for that.

Jedd I am so happy you wanted to look at that Landing pad to start with..It was down hill eversince then for them.
« Last Edit: Jan 15th, 2009, 07:55am by TeachersPet » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1268 on: Jan 15th, 2009, 08:06am »

My apologies DrDil,

There are a number of ways to remove metadata tags from a Jpeg. For example… here is the Snoop report on an original photo:



*** Searching Compression Signatures ***

Signature: 01C637675F6ED0E7342D1C5ABE900B6D
Signature (Rotated): 01493D28089C98057C91B97AE5A12EC3
File Offset: 0 bytes
Chroma subsampling: 2x1
EXIF Make/Model: OK [NIKON] [COOLPIX L4]
EXIF Makernotes: OK
EXIF Software: OK [COOLPIX L4 V1.1]

Searching Compression Signatures: (3314 built-in, 3 user(*) )

EXIF.Make / Software EXIF.Model Quality Subsamp Match?
------------------------- ----------------------------------- ---------------- --------------
*CAM:[NIKON ] [COOLPIX L4 ] [NORMAL ] Yes

ASSESSMENT: Uncertain if processed or original







Here is the same photo after running an EXIF strip:

*** Searching Compression Signatures ***

Signature: 01C637675F6ED0E7342D1C5ABE900B6D
Signature (Rotated): 01493D28089C98057C91B97AE5A12EC3
File Offset: 0 bytes
Chroma subsampling: 2x1
EXIF Make/Model: NONE
EXIF Makernotes: NONE
EXIF Software: NONE

Searching Compression Signatures: (3314 built-in, 3 user(*) )

EXIF.Make / Software EXIF.Model Quality Subsamp Match?
------------------------- ----------------------------------- ---------------- --------------
*CAM:[NIKON ] [COOLPIX L4 ] [NORMAL ] Yes

ASSESSMENT: Image is processed/edited





You will notice, the compression signatures are left intact (like the quality), but the EXIF data is gone.

Second point… in this case, the compression signatures correctly match the camera. That is not always the case.

If the EXIF data is gone (the EXIF data will correctly identify the camera), then this is just a list of signature matches that may or may not include the correct camera (especially if the camera is a newer model). One must be careful making a conclusion on missing EXIF data if more than one camera is listed in the signature list. Chances are, you may be wrong.

Third, the EXIF edit (removal) is seen as an edit/alter by Snoop.


Now to your question… no, I was not just referring to the quality data in the signature.

But as to the quality data… one says “Save As 07” and the other “Save As 12.” Did you notice neither say “Save As Web?”

The point being… we are not sure that Adobe was the method use to remove the EXIF data. It is more likely an EXIF remover software was employed. This means Isaac and the rest have a common knowledge about this kind of stuff (why are we not surprised).



Also:

User Image

User Image


The p119 halfsize has a Nikon signature that is missing on the fullsize version (as being RAW or direct input into PS). Yet, these are the same image... one is just "half" the size of the other. Since the signature section will accumulate information on signatures, then why would a hardware signature be missing on the fullsize version? These are hints as to the method of manipulation.

I do not have Photoshop, so I can not experiment with it to see exactly what it does... and there is a fair number of EXIF remover software out there. I am still working on it.
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1269 on: Jan 15th, 2009, 08:20am »

this is a google for exif data removers just first page..The common thread all showed manipulation..independent hoaxers at the water hole? No, they all showed coordination..Timing and execution..and sudden stopping..
I think the water hole dried up
1.
exif data removal
exif data removal : Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital () In photoshop File Info some data fields like the Camera, Model, date/time cannot be deleted Is theer
www.tomshardware.com/forum/35791-5-exif-data-removal - 116k - Cached
2.
Remove exif - Exif Remover Software
Online Exif Remover, Exif Remove Software, Remove Exif, Picture, Photography, Online ... This tool will help you to read or remove EXIF data from your photos. ...
www.exifremover.com - Cached
3.
macosxhints.com - Remove EXIF header data to allow iPhoto2 import
Click here to return to the 'Remove EXIF header data to allow iPhoto2 import' hint ... If you're serious about your photos, keep the EXIF data. ...
www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20030204071419519 - 52k - Cached
4.
EXIF Data Remover - download tag - Softpedia
Home / Windows / Tags / EXIF Data Remover. Downloads tagged with: EXIF Data Remover ... by removing any existing EXIF data. [read more >] Size: Platform: ...
www.softpedia.com/downloadTag/EXIF+Data+Remover - Cached
5.
Download Exif Tag Remover 2.0 - An application that allows you to ...
Exif Tag Remover An application that allows you to delete tags and ... The application can rename pictures according to their EXIF data. Exif Tag Remover 2.0 ...
www.softpedia.com/get/System/File-Management/Exif-Tag-Remover.shtml - 64k - Cached
6.
Exchangeable image file format - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
* Background|
* Technical|
* Geolocation|
* Program support
Exchangeable image file format (Exif) is a specification for the image file format used by digital cameras. The specification uses the existing JPEG, TIFF Rev. 6.0, and RIFF WAV file formats, with the addition of specific...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exchangeable_image_file_format - 54k - Cached
7.
PHP: Exif Functions - Manual
here the link to my exif data remover function: http://robert-beran.de/dl.php?id=4. its written in php so you can use it to remove jpg exif data in your php projects. ...
us2.php.net/manual/en/ref.exif.php - Cached
8.
How to remove Exif data in pbase ?: Beginners Questions Forum: Digital ...
How to remove Exif data in pbase ? User: My Threads. Flat view. Navigation: ^ Forum ... How can I stop pbase showing the exif data ? Thanks in anticipation. Kin ...
forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1002&message=29279183 - Cached
9.
Download Exif Tag Remover 2.0 Free - Delete Exif & other metadata tags ...
... Size: 2.33 MB, License: Freeware. Exif Tag Remover allows you to easily delete the Exif tag and other metadata tags. By ... the EXIF, GPS, PTC data. 140 ...
download3k.com/Photo-Graphic/.../Download-Exif-Tag-Remover.html - Cached
10.
Photo Properties / Exif Data removal from certain photos. | Gallery
Photo Properties / Exif Data removal from certain photos. ... I would like to be able to fully remove the photo properties / Exif data from certain photos? ...
gallery.menalto.com/node/35909 - Cached
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1270 on: Jan 15th, 2009, 10:58am »

on Jan 15th, 2009, 07:50am, TeachersPet wrote:
Maybe ITS A TRAP!!!

Or just a mundane reason
Both?..maybe they had technical difficulties..like an inability to speak the the whole truth. Nemo said he was going to wait for the fox thing to come out.

This is exquisite..I was wondering why Tomi stopped all of a sudden..

Maybe they will reincarnate into the DronehoaxResearchTeam.

and say that was their plan all along..

grin grin grin
Isaac was still up last night..let me check again.
But you can bet the farm they will be back under different names..I can't blame them for that.

Jedd I am so happy you wanted to look at that Landing pad to start with..It was down hill eversince then for them.


nothing nefarious es.. nothing nefarious.. why does ever aspect of this case have to have someone's paranoid nefarious twist attached to it.. rolleyes
Just lurking ! If that isn't innocent enuf for you..
then take a chill pill dude wink
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1271 on: Jan 15th, 2009, 11:21am »

on Dec 30th, 2008, 10:22am, tomi01uk wrote:
What assumptions? I haven't made any assumptions.
I am not the one who has a label for this case, am I??



What analysis? I haven't made any analysis, label or conclusion. All I've done is reinterate why a conclusion at this point is hard to draw...



Exactly what does it tell you? That I trust my own reasoning, eyes and ears?? Pray tell??



Let's see if I've got this right? You think that it is important for an edited picture, to be analysed to prove that it is edited? If you guys are so great look for the artifacts yourselves. They should be easy to find..

You take a few sky pixels and you put them where the drone used to be.. What you want DRT to do that for you too?




" If you guys are so great look for the artifacts yourselves. They should be easy to find.. You take a few sky pixels and you put them where the drone used to be.. What you want DRT to do that for you too?"


If y'all don't mind, that'd be great! Thanks.

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1272 on: Jan 15th, 2009, 11:37am »

on Jan 15th, 2009, 10:58am, tomi01uk wrote:
nothing nefarious es.. nothing nefarious.. why does ever aspect of this case have to have someone's paranoid nefarious twist attached to it.. rolleyes
Just lurking ! If that isn't innocent enuf for you..
then take a chill pill dude wink


Any idea what is going on with the DRT site? Nemo's Ovni site is down as well!
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1273 on: Jan 15th, 2009, 11:37am »

on Jan 15th, 2009, 11:21am, Double Nought Spy wrote:
If y'all don't mind, that'd be great! Thanks.



I know you keep going back to these two pictures, but I honestly to God can not see anything that would be out of the ordinary, if one removed the drone pixels and put repeating background sky in place as normally done.

Could you please point out the "smoking gun" here, for ppl as thick as I happen to be about what you are seeing here?
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1274 on: Jan 15th, 2009, 11:39am »

on Jan 15th, 2009, 11:37am, Jeddyhi wrote:
Any idea what is going on with the DRT site? Nemo's Ovni site is down as well!


They are up, I just checked. Maybe maintenance last night?
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