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 sticky  Author  Topic: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Truth  (Read 22867 times)
Marvin
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #150 on: Dec 8th, 2008, 3:19pm »

on Dec 8th, 2008, 2:04pm, Latitude wrote:

Yes and yes. Approximate. There are some scale differences but you get the general idea. There was much calculation done about the sun angle that fateful day in Capitola. Don't make me rehash all that but it basically agrees with my crude drawing.





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If this shows the path of the sun light, can you show me where the shadow of the Drone will strike (be seen on) the pole?
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #151 on: Dec 8th, 2008, 4:08pm »

Hi guys, sorry for blending in, but Marvin I think you (and Kris) actually have a serious problem here.

Notice the shadow (in black circle) as it seem to actually never move, or only slightly. How do you explain that, if the rest of the shadows seem to move in the .gif presented?

Furthermore is it still hard to determine if the Drone is "leaning" as well, so the compass thing will not be of use here, only if you are absolutely certain of the pole's position, and as I understand, no one are.

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In my opinion, the shadows of the drone cannot be more than estimates, as there simply aren't any other reference points. (exept for the pole)

Therefor, the consistant of the "tiny" shadow I just pointed out, might show that you actually proved that the drone reacts "as it should" in your research?

And therefor maybe is more likely to be true than the power/telephone pole shown in the original image. Maybe it's the pole that's manipulated....

Have a real good time working this out, and remember: Small evidence sometimes are the most true.

DrStern



« Last Edit: Dec 8th, 2008, 6:21pm by DrStern » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #152 on: Dec 8th, 2008, 4:44pm »

on Dec 8th, 2008, 4:08pm, DrStern wrote:
Hi guys, sorry for blending in, but Marvin I think you (and Kris) actually have a serious problem here.

Notice the shadow (in black circle) as it seem to actually never move, or only slightly. How do you explain that, if the rest of the shadows seem to move in the .gif presented?

Furthermore is it still hard to determine if the Drone is "leaning" as well, so the compass thing will not be of use here, only if you are absolutely certain of the pole's position, and as I understand, no one are.

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In my opinion, the shadows of the drone cannot be more than estimates, as there simply aren't any other reference points. (exept for the pole)

Therefor, the consistance of the "tiny" shadow I just pointed out, might show that you actually proved that the drone reacts "as it should" in your research?

And therefor maybe is more likely to be true than the power/telephone pole shown in the original image. Maybe it's the pole that's manipulated....

Have a real good time working this out, and remember: Small evidence sometimes are the most true.

DrStern







Hi Doc,

I hope you are having a great holiday!

I do not know have all of the info on how Kris calculated the Drones position... I think if you have a question on that, he would be the best one to answer it.

Besides, I was using his pole example.

As to “compass” direction (have you noticed I have been using the word in quotes)... I have not introduced that actual azimuth (compass direction) from which the sun light is coming from.

Is it impossible to do? Actually, since we know the time, date and approximate location (assuming near Capitola)… we can look it up in a table. This has already been done.

But to introduce that now would cause utter confusion for a number of folks. I am simply showing the difference in lighting directions as if using a 360 degree compass (rather than North or South).


Is the Drone leaning? That can be determined by placing a mathematical model of it in a 3D software as a number of others have done. So with effort and software, that can be done.


But the debate here seems to be looking for the mice and are over looking the elephant I am trying to point out. The angle of the sun, in order for the Drone lighting to be correct, has to be from almost 2 hours earlier in the day… closer to 4PM than to 5:42PM.

I think I am about done with this… my best advice Doc, is if you do not think I am correct… do the research or take it to someone who understands and show it to them.

Best regards,

Marvin



Oh and BTW... Lat's sketch:

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It is physically impossible for the Drone to cast a shadow on the pole. Take the red line (that is the sun's direction) and draw one though the Drone, parallel to the original red line. That is where the shadow will be cast. wink

There is no way for the Drone to cast a shadow on the pole using either the “Drone lighting” or the “pole lighting,” with the Drone located where it is in the photo (and without a third light source). Play with it… it will become glaring obvious to you.
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #153 on: Dec 8th, 2008, 5:01pm »

Thanks, Marvin, and for your reply.

Quote:
But the debate here seems to be looking for the mice and are over looking the elephant I am trying to point out.


Remember David and Goliath:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goliath

I'll hereby step down, and not bother you again, please enjoy a merry Christmas,

DrStern
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #154 on: Dec 8th, 2008, 5:10pm »

Much of this if not all, was gone over in the folowing thread, which included the analysis by multiple people.

That is a good suggestion, Marvin, to have to take it up with them, assuming the the Doctor, did his homework and and understood the analysis done that had explanations attached for every diagram done.
http://lucianarchy.proboards21.com/index.cgi?board=cali1&action=display&thread=2037&page=5
http://lucianarchy.proboards21.com/index.cgi?board=cali1&action=display&thread=3544

Perhaps we can import that entire thread right here for their reference.
Torvald said it was ok to use his work, it is in the public domain, so long as diagram and information were kept together. I am sure Kris, 11 11, Radi, and the others wont mind either.

I would not humor simply rehashing something that has been resolved already.

« Last Edit: Dec 8th, 2008, 5:12pm by TeachersPet » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #155 on: Dec 8th, 2008, 5:19pm »

on Dec 5th, 2008, 3:22pm, Marvin wrote:
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Hi Marvin, Tuna here. I'm glad you posted this diagram and the pic that followed. This is what I have always seen to be the reason why there isn't 2 separate light sources:

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The halfway point for the shadow on the drone seems to follow the yellow arrows you have for the pole sunlight, does it not?

Tuna smiley
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #156 on: Dec 8th, 2008, 5:46pm »

on Dec 8th, 2008, 5:01pm, DrStern wrote:
Thanks, Marvin, and for your reply.



Remember David and Goliath:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goliath

I'll hereby step down, and not bother you again, please enjoy a merry Christmas,

DrStern



There is no reason to step down Doc and you are not a bother. smiley I am always happy to explain anything or debate any issue... sometime it is become a bit overwhelming during these tag team “challenges.” I hope you and yours will have a Merry Christmas as well.
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #157 on: Dec 8th, 2008, 5:53pm »

on Dec 8th, 2008, 5:19pm, newtothis wrote:
Hi Marvin, Tuna here. I'm glad you posted this diagram and the pic that followed. This is what I have always seen to be the reason why there isn't 2 separate light sources:

The halfway point for the shadow on the drone seems to follow the yellow arrows you have for the pole sunlight, does it not?

Tuna smiley


Hi Newtothis (one needs a program to keep up wink )


Here is the reason why the appearance of the shadow on the Drone's outer body maybe a bit misleading (I beleive the gamma/brightness has been played with):


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If the Drone was illuminated from that angle, the circled "tooth" (that hangs down) should be illuminated... but it is in complete shadow. Therefore, the sun cannot be coming from that direction (on the Drone).
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #158 on: Dec 8th, 2008, 9:04pm »

on Dec 8th, 2008, 5:53pm, Marvin wrote:
Hi Newtothis (one needs a program to keep up wink )


Here is the reason why the appearance of the shadow on the Drone's outer body maybe a bit misleading (I beleive the gamma/brightness has been played with):


While the black line I drew is far from exact, I believe it is a lot closer to the halfway point than the red arrows you have drawn. If the lighting was changed, wouldn't it have been changed for the whole photo and not just part of the drone?

I wish I had the skills that some of you have to break down that halfway point and where it more than likely starts, but alas, I'm a fish outta water wink

Tuna
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #159 on: Dec 9th, 2008, 06:56am »

on Dec 8th, 2008, 9:04pm, newtothis wrote:
While the black line I drew is far from exact, I believe it is a lot closer to the halfway point than the red arrows you have drawn. If the lighting was changed, wouldn't it have been changed for the whole photo and not just part of the drone?

I wish I had the skills that some of you have to break down that halfway point and where it more than likely starts, but alas, I'm a fish outta water wink

Tuna



Hi Tuna,

The red lines and yellow lines are the directions of light sources. If you go the opposite direction of the arrows, then you would find the light source for that line. The lines point in the “line of travel” of the light (in order to cast a shadow). I did not try to show the terminus between light and shadow (that can be a little more involved for non-flat or multi-directional curved surfaces). It is also “tricky” to do when a photo has been modified ( it can be unworkable). It is much easier to follow the “line of travel” of the light to the shadow it creates.

For the Pole, it was fairly easy to find the shadow terminus… it is “even” with the bolts that attach the top cross bars. I am working from the assumption the pole lighting is correct (that it is legitimate) and the lighting angle I am using is correct. The Drone… has issues. That is never a good sign.

If you think the light source angle for the pole is the correct light source angle for the Drone, then simply draw parallel line of that light source through the openings on the bottom of the Drone and look to see if the shadows are correct for that light source angle. Let us know if you can get them to match. Also, let us know if you can get the Drone to cast a shadow on the pole.
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #160 on: Dec 9th, 2008, 09:47am »

on Dec 8th, 2008, 3:19pm, Marvin wrote:
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If this shows the path of the sun light, can you show me where the shadow of the Drone will strike (be seen on) the pole?

There would be no drone shadow on the pole. The red line is the sun angle. Maybe you misunderstood my drawing but I cannot understand why you would think a shadow from the drone would hit the pole. huh

PS: Trim those images, again!

« Last Edit: Dec 9th, 2008, 09:49am by Latitude » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #161 on: Dec 9th, 2008, 11:26am »

on Dec 9th, 2008, 09:47am, Latitude wrote:
There would be no drone shadow on the pole. The red line is the sun angle. Maybe you misunderstood my drawing but I cannot understand why you would think a shadow from the drone would hit the pole. huh





I just want to be sure we are in agreement. wink
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #162 on: Dec 9th, 2008, 11:45am »

on Dec 9th, 2008, 11:26am, Marvin wrote:
I just want to be sure we are in agreement. wink

So I guess it was some kind of a trick question?

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #163 on: Dec 9th, 2008, 1:04pm »

on Dec 9th, 2008, 11:45am, Latitude wrote:
So I guess it was some kind of a trick question?





Ya mean like "sit up," or "roll over?"

Naw.

It just shows we can find agreement. smiley
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #164 on: Dec 9th, 2008, 3:53pm »

I don't know if you've seen this one before. It's one I did to illustrate the sun angle consistency between two pics that
were taken 4 seconds apart according to the exif data. Notice the clouds and how they correlate with that time frame.

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« Last Edit: Dec 9th, 2008, 3:58pm by Latitude » User IP Logged

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