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murnut
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #645 on: Dec 31st, 2008, 06:26am »

Happy New Year folks!

I propose a cease fire.

If they want to believe, let them....

and if we want to believe it is a hoax, let us.

Everyone can still investigate
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #646 on: Dec 31st, 2008, 07:37am »

Happy New Year as well everyone.

It's not so much what you believe that matters here, there is just so much more to learn and know about that keeps this fascinating.

Till then we will all wonder (differently) smiley

Happy New Year !
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #647 on: Dec 31st, 2008, 08:34am »

on Dec 31st, 2008, 12:44am, newtothis wrote:
Do you think for sure the drones are 100% fake?


Absolutley. And by the way, no one discusses the Haiti hoax because there is no one claiming it is real, or has a chance of being real.

2008 Closing statement

Can someone explain to me why the drone case started with these amazing daytime photos and became less and less credible as the days went by? Sometimes I think it is all the coincedences that made it look bad. Things like all photos being in the daylight, all photo witnesses being anonymous, all photo witnesses reporting their sighting via the internet only, all photo witnesses disappearing without helping, the magical glyphs that look very similiar to earthly letters, Wrong shadows, offset panda groups, anonymous Isaac and his incredible tale of pant stuffing espionage.

Somewhere through all that, I decided that the drones were a 100% hoax with no basis in reality. I suppose those that think there is a chance the drones are real have a right to that belief but at the same time, they must acknowledge all the evidence that points to hoax. It is not stuff that somebody made up. Chad really did lie about his location sighting. He really did leave out that there was a restaurant and highway right where he took the photos from. He wanted the location to appear somewhat remote, not over a parking lot and highway. There really are shadow problems. The photos really have been lamblasted by professional CGI and special effects experts.

The best way to approach any UFO case is with logic. I have logically deduced that the drones are a bogus story based on lack of corroborating evidence. It is going to be 2009 and the debate still lives because the DRT still wastes money and time on the drones. All because of some clear photos....sheeeeesh. Maybe if a witness or two had participated I could understand, but for just photos? And we all do agree that we live in the digital age, right? And the digital age brings with it a whole new level of trickery and hoaxing. Lets all remember that hoaxing has gotten easier if not more expensive.

Looking forward to being wrong about the drones. Maybe 2009 has the final evidence!!
Have a Happy New Year all. Talk to you in 2009!
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #648 on: Dec 31st, 2008, 08:35am »

I was wondering what the believers in the reality of the Drones thought of the following, it's regarding what Isaac wrote under the heading, “Some Explanation for the Recent Sightings”.

Quote:
One question I can answer for sure is why they're suddenly here.

<snip>

The reason they're suddenly visible, however, is another matter entirely. These crafts, assuming they're anything like the hardware I worked with in the 80's (assuming they're better, in fact), are equipped with technology that enables invisibility. That ability can be controlled both on board the craft, and remotely. However, what's important in this case is that this invisibility can also be disrupted by other technology. Think of it like radar jamming. I would bet my life savings (since I know this has happened before) that these craft are becoming visible and then returning to invisibility arbitrarily, probably unintentionally, and undoubtedly for only short periods, due to the activity of a kind of disrupting technology being set off elsewhere, but nearby. I'm especially sure of this in the case of the Big Basin sightings, were the witnesses themselves reported seeing the craft just appear and disappear. This is especially likely because of the way the witness described one of the appearances being only a momentary flicker, which is consistent with the unintentional, intermittent triggering of such a device.

It's no surprise that these sightings are all taking place in California, and especially the Saratoga/South Bay area. Not far from Saratoga is Mountain View/Sunnyvale, home to Moffett Field and the NASA Ames Research center. Again, I'd be willing to bet just about anything that the device capable of hijacking the cloaking of these nearby craft was inadvertently triggered, probably during some kind of experiment, at the exact moment they were being seen. Miles away, in Big Basin, the witnesses were in the right place at the right time and saw the results of this disruption with their own eyes. God knows what else was suddenly appearing in the skies at that moment, and who else may have seen it. I've had some direct contact with this device, or at least a device capable of the same thing, and this kind of mistake is not unprecedented. I am personally aware of at least one other incident in which this kind of technology was accidentally set off, resulting in the sudden visibility of normally invisible things. The only difference is that these days, cameras are a lot more common!

The technology itself isn't ours, or at least it wasn't in the 80's. Much like the technology in these crafts themselves, the device capable of remotely hijacking a vehicle's clacking comes from a non-human source too. Why we were given this technology has never been clear to me, but it's responsible for a lot. Our having access to this kind of device, along with our occasionally haphazard experimentation on them, has lead to everything from cloaking malfunctions like this to full-blown crashes. I can assure you that most (and in my opinion all) incidents of UFO crashes or that kind of thing had more to do with our meddling with extremely powerful technology at an inopportune time than it did mechanical failure on their part. Trust me, those things don't fail unless something even more powerful than them makes them fail (intentionally or not).

As you can see, Isaac has rather specific ideas regarding why he believes that the Drones have suddenly became momentarily visible. Isaac states unequivocally:

Quote:
“One question I can answer for sure is why they're suddenly here.”

In the quote from Isaac regarding where they obtained the device he wrote:

Quote:
“The technology itself isn't ours, or at least it wasn't in the 80's. Much like the technology in these crafts themselves, the device capable of remotely hijacking a vehicle's clacking comes from a non-human source too. Why we were given this technology has never been clear to me, but it's responsible for a lot. Our having access to this kind of device, along with our occasionally haphazard experimentation on them, has lead to everything from cloaking malfunctions like this to full-blown crashes.”

While it’s clear to me what Isaac meant, the subsequently ascribed ambiguous intent of the statement by pro-Drone believers has lead to the same believers dismissing what I believe is blatantly obvious, it’s the statement:

“Why we were given this technology has never been clear to me”.

When considered within the context of the immediately preceding sentences, i.e.:

1) “The technology itself isn't ours”
2) “the device capable of remotely hijacking a vehicle's clacking comes from a non-human source”


Then the statement: “Why we were given this technology has never been clear to me” is in my opinion obviously referring to the fact that the word, “we” means, “humans” and it clearly states we have been “given” the technology by a “non-human source”.

Why is this even an issue?

I feel the implication of what Isaac stated makes the position of all Drone-believers a great deal MORE precarious than it first appears, here’s why…..

It has always been my contention that when Isaac ponders, “Why we were given this device” he means why was the human-race given this device. And so I believe it’s a natural step, a logical progression to the supposition that this means that the US military/government have undertaken in communications, meetings and/or exchanges with off-world and ‘non-human’ sources.

It appears that the problem here is that while a human/extraterrestrial ‘meet & greet’ is a common theory within the UFO community, it is by no means a popular one. In my experience it is rejected as almost a complete fabrication by the vast majority of serious UFO researchers. So if you accept that Isaac is referring to humans being given this device by an extraterrestrial (“non-human”) source then you are placing Isaac and his documents into a category that invites ridicule. And by direct association then this is where the Drones also belong.

And obviously pro-Drone believers have enough problems presenting any kind of evidentiary data which supports the reality of the Drones without adding insult to injury by tying the Drones into such events as the fabled 1954 (February 20th) alien meeting when it is alleged that President Dwight Eisenhower met a couple of aliens at Edwards Air Force Base and signed off on a treaty which exchanged technology for human abductions. Granted, this is mainly espoused by Michael Salla (exopolitician extraordinaire) and others of a similar ilk, but to be honest I’ve always thought that ALL claims centred around extraterrestrial races engaging in interplanetary sorties to meet, greet and give us (humans) technology was a leap of faith that I could never consolidate with my personal beliefs and not surprisingly there’s no corroboratory data supporting any such claim.

But I digress….. wink

Let’s give Isaac the benefit of the doubt and when he says, “we” he actually means CARET researchers (rather than the human race), so when Isaac wrote:

Quote:
“Again, I'd be willing to bet just about anything that the device capable of hijacking the cloaking of these nearby craft was inadvertently triggered.”

“The technology itself isn't ours, or at least it wasn't in the 80's.”

“The device capable of remotely hijacking a vehicle's clacking comes from a non-human source too.”

“Why we were given this technology has never been clear to me, but it's responsible for a lot.”

“I can assure you that most (and in my opinion all) incidents of UFO crashes or that kind of thing had more to do with our meddling with extremely powerful technology at an inopportune time than it did mechanical failure on their part.”

“Trust me, those things don't fail unless something even more powerful than them makes them fail (intentionally or not).”

So, as we are giving Isaac the benefit of the doubt the obviously the question is where did CARET get the device that does this from?

It can’t have been from a crashed anything as Isaac wrote:

Quote:
“In my opinion all incidents of UFO crashes or that kind of thing had more to do with our meddling with extremely powerful technology.” & “Trust me, those things don't fail unless something even more powerful than them makes them fail.”

So how could we (humans) obtain a: “Device capable of remotely hijacking a vehicle's clacking [sic] (that) comes from a non-human source”?

Especially IF they never crash or fail unless something more powerful causes it?

And if we already have something more powerful than their technology which caused this failure and it came from a, “Non-human” source then how could we have obtained it except as a gift or exchange?

If you take Isaac at face value and accept his statements and opinions he is saying that UFOs never crash by accident. He also says the device that causes malfunction is from a non-human source.

In my opinion then the only explanation (regarding this statement by Isaac) is that humans were given this device (which is capable of overriding alien technology and rendering it impotent) by the aliens themselves.

And playing devils advocate then if this is what actually transpired then it raises the obvious question of why would a more advanced species give us the means of downing their craft and effectively rendering the craft powerless as well as possibly killing the occupants?
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #649 on: Dec 31st, 2008, 08:35am »

Also in the following paragraph Isaac references ‘different races’ of extraterrestrials:

Quote:
In fact, what was especially amusing about the whole affair was the way that our military management almost tried to act as if the technology we were essentially reverse engineering wasn't extra-terrestrial at all. Aside from the word “extra-terrestrial” itself, we rarely heard any other terms like “alien” or “UFO” or “outer space” or anything. Those aspects were only mentioned briefly when absolutely necessary to explain something. In many cases it was necessary to differentiate between the different races and their respective technology, and they didn't even use the word “races”. They were referred to simply as different “sources”.

And the following paragraph seems to hint at the fact that either communications have taken place or that the extraterrestrials have been observed performing these calculations and designing the LAP schematics:

Quote:
As each new feature was added, the complexity of the diagram exponentially grew to unmanageable proportions. For this reason we began to develop computer-based systems to manage these details and achieved some success, although again we found that a threshold was quickly reached beyond which even the supercomputers of the day were unable to keep up. Word was that the extra-terrestrials could design these diagrams as quickly and easily as a human programmer could write a Fortran program. It's humbling to think that even a network of supercomputers wasn't able to duplicate what they could do in their own heads.

All of which I believe means that as Isaac and the Drones are inextricably linked then the words of Isaac are massively relevant to establishing the Drones as a ‘nuts & bolts’ phenomenon.

And if this is the case it also seems that if you buy into Drones then you buy into Isaac, and if you buy into Isaac then this also means buying into governmental meetings with extraterrestrial biological entities, and partaking in either a gift or an exchange of technology with them.

Not only that but it is also a direct confirmation that there are indeed multiple races of these technologically advanced extraterrestrial races and more bizarrely this is used as an identifier to differentiate between their respective technologies.

IF the military or government know half of what they are accused of and IF there is ever a concerted effort to channel this information into a ‘disclosure’ of any description then I believe unreservedly that this ISN’T how any such disclosure would be allowed to play out.

Cheers & Happy New Year All!! smiley
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #650 on: Dec 31st, 2008, 09:04am »

Really good analysis again DrDil.
Well done as usual. smiley

But again, a question arises as to the possibility of this, if any of it is real, not being a "sanctioned" disclosure but possibly a rebellion within some group type of disclosure..

TBH, for sometime now I've had a gut feeling that there is some rebellion or fraction within some organisation responsible for this. Real or not. Partially real or not.

Obviously, this isn't a lot of great thinking.. Could be anything with that hypothesis.. But I just have that feeling that there is some reason and it pertains to a group... who or why??
« Last Edit: Dec 31st, 2008, 09:17am by tommi01 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #651 on: Dec 31st, 2008, 09:38am »

Good posts, Dr Dill. You set the standard for the anti drone stance. The rest should take a lesson from you. Even though I disagree with a few of your points I have to respect the way you laid them out.

on Dec 31st, 2008, 08:35am, DrDil wrote:

It appears that the problem here is that while a human/extraterrestrial ‘meet & greet’ is a common theory within the UFO community, it is by no means a popular one. In my experience it is rejected as almost a complete fabrication by the vast majority of serious UFO researchers. So if you accept that Isaac is referring to humans being given this device by an extraterrestrial (“non-human”) source then you are placing Isaac and his documents into a category that invites ridicule. And by direct association then this is where the Drones also belong.


I disagree. Most serious ufologists do believe a "meet and greet" is highly likely to have occurred. That's why we have movies like Close Encounters.

I also don't understand why you keep referring to "pro-drone believers". It's not so black and white. While there is a broad spectrum of belief from no belief to absolute belief, most fall somewhere in between, myself included. I think you are misinterpreting my devil's advocate way of posting. I always try to remain open minded to possibilities. I enjoy contemplating the "what if". Without an imagination this would be no fun. I really am struggling to identify any real "pro-drone believers".

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #652 on: Dec 31st, 2008, 09:51am »

on Dec 31st, 2008, 09:38am, Latitude wrote:
Good posts, Dr Dill. You set the standard for the anti drone stance. The rest should take a lesson from you. Even though I disagree with a few of your points I have to respect the way you laid them out.



I disagree. Most serious ufologists do believe a "meet and greet" is highly likely to have occurred. That's why we have movies like Close Encounters.

I also don't understand why you keep referring to "pro-drone believers". It's not so black and white. While there is a broad spectrum of belief from no belief to absolute belief, most fall somewhere in between, myself included. I think you are misinterpreting my devil's advocate way of posting. I always try to remain open minded to possibilities. I enjoy contemplating the "what if". Without an imagination this would be no fun. I really am struggling to identify any real "pro-drone believers".



You do realize that the DRT forum does not even allow discussion of the hoax scenario.

"This DRT forum was created for the discussion of the reality of the drones. Other forums exist for hoax discussion.

This is a research forum ... not meant for opinions."


Sounds like a pro-drone believer forum to me. Sometimes I do not understand how you think, Lat. It is like you do not make sense at all, or you forget what forum you belong to and the direction your own research has taken. Any one of you that reject the expert analysis of the photos and defend every instance of hoax are, for the record, pro-drone believers.
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #653 on: Dec 31st, 2008, 09:59am »

on Dec 31st, 2008, 09:51am, Jeddyhi wrote:
You do realize that the DRT forum does not even allow discussion of the hoax scenario.

"This DRT forum was created for the discussion of the reality of the drones. Other forums exist for hoax discussion.

This is a research forum ... not meant for opinions."


Sounds like a pro-drone believer forum to me. Sometimes I do not understand how you think, Lat. It is like you do not make sense at all, or you forget what forum you belong to and the direction your own research has taken. Any one of you that reject the expert analysis of the photos and defend every instance of hoax are, for the record, pro-drone believers.


Thanks Jeddyhi. He's just trying to change the subject again. Along with bluster and bullying, it's one of his favorite tactics. Now he's trying to play the misunderstood scholar, which is about like Mr. T playing Mary Poppins.

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #654 on: Dec 31st, 2008, 10:03am »

on Dec 31st, 2008, 01:42am, newtothis wrote:
Well, is there even 1% chance you think there is any truth to the drones? 99 negatives, 1 positive?

Tuna


No There is 0% chance of any reality in anything related to the drones...IMO.

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #655 on: Dec 31st, 2008, 10:28am »

on Dec 31st, 2008, 08:35am, DrDil wrote:
And playing devils advocate then if this is what actually transpired then it raises the obvious question of why would a more advanced species give us the means of downing their craft and effectively rendering the craft powerless as well as possibly killing the occupants?



It's possible that a race of aliens like the Grays gave us the technology to be used against another race of aliens such as the feared Reptilians! Not that I believe it but it is possible...at least in the movies!
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #656 on: Dec 31st, 2008, 10:34am »

on Dec 31st, 2008, 10:28am, GForce wrote:
It's possible that a race of aliens like the Grays gave us the technology to be used against another race of aliens such as the feared Reptilians! Not that I believe it but it is possible...at least in the movies!

Possible, but in the Isaac scenario it reads more like an inter-galactic swap-shop grin:

Quote:
In fact, what was especially amusing about the whole affair was the way that our military management almost tried to act as if the technology we were essentially reverse engineering wasn't extra-terrestrial at all. Aside from the word “extra-terrestrial” itself, we rarely heard any other terms like “alien” or “UFO” or “outer space” or anything. Those aspects were only mentioned briefly when absolutely necessary to explain something. In many cases it was necessary to differentiate between the different races and their respective technology, and they didn't even use the word “races”. They were referred to simply as different “sources”.


Cheers. smiley
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #657 on: Dec 31st, 2008, 12:04pm »

wow, i've been out visiting for a few wks and steped back in to see whats going on. this all started over one simple question. half of this tread is wasted over bickering. WOW
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #658 on: Dec 31st, 2008, 12:14pm »

Yes, Walker, it happens when you try to be helpful and rexplain, then re justify, and well..we know the routine.
but, what you said that sounds like a fabulous and wise counsel and is the key.I am going to get up and go out for a pack of cigarettes .
You and yours all have a fabulous New Year.
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #659 on: Dec 31st, 2008, 5:39pm »

on Dec 31st, 2008, 08:35am, DrDil wrote:
And playing devils advocate then if this is what actually transpired then it raises the obvious question of why would a more advanced species give us the means of downing their craft and effectively rendering the craft powerless as well as possibly killing the occupants?


on Dec 31st, 2008, 10:28am, GForce wrote:
It's possible that a race of aliens like the Grays gave us the technology to be used against another race of aliens such as the feared Reptilians! Not that I believe it but it is possible...at least in the movies!




But you see, these are the very side tracking debates that take place when we lose sight of the bigger picture.

Why are they called Drones?

Isn’t it believed there is no room for an occupant in one of these craft (thus the name Drone)? Not even for a “gray.”

So if:

Quote:
The reason they're suddenly visible, however, is another matter entirely. These crafts, assuming they're anything like the hardware I worked with in the 80's (assuming they're better, in fact), are equipped with technology that enables invisibility. That ability can be controlled both on board the craft, and remotely.


Who is on board and where would they be?

Odd… and Isaac claims that he has never seen a whole craft before, just components. So how would he know if they are occupied? That info was not in the supplied PACL/CARET documents.

When is a Drone not a drone? And does this mean the DRT has to change their name? rolleyes
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