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TeachersPet
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #735 on: Jan 2nd, 2009, 4:29pm »

Forget about prove, we know thats an impossible or difficult, hurdle to jump for you already, how about, have you found anything that is was a real event other than what Chad Raj Ty Isaac said?

Thank you
« Last Edit: Jan 2nd, 2009, 4:31pm by TeachersPet » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #736 on: Jan 2nd, 2009, 4:29pm »

on Jan 2nd, 2009, 3:49pm, elevenaugust wrote:
Hi DrDil!
I know all of that, but that doesn't dismissed the possibility of Chad be the owner of two properties.
Not necessarily a lie.
He could have said to LMH that he really lives in Bakersfield (Not proved to be a lie yet), but didn't say a word about his sighting location, which is different. Why?
- To protect his family and himself.
- Chad said that he lives in Bakersfield, so that might be the relatives house that he lives at now after being scared from the Summit area.
Only speculation of course, but I still let to Chad the benefit of the doubts.

Hi 11, it’s as good as a lie if Chad reports the Drone, says he lives in Bakersfield then DOESN’T say he spotted the Drone somewhere else. I guess it's down to perception as if you "know all of that" then I really don’t see how it can be ignored, as I’ve said Chad wrote:

“Most of the time I see it out of windows in my house, in the distance.”

Note: MY HOUSE

So it’s undeniable it was witnessed from the property he was living in.

“His pregnant wife was so upset he was concerned about her health and they were leaving their house to stay with relatives.”

Note: WERE LEAVING THEIR HOUSE

Written as the future tense.

Future tense: a verb form that marks the event described by the verb as not having happened yet, but expected to happen in the future.

Again, undeniable that this information was relayed to LMH from Chad’s property prior to ‘fleeing’.

Yet you still think he may have two houses when:

Chad doesn’t even own a digital camera or recorder?

Chad is going to stay with relatives, NOT to his other property?

Chad never hints at owning another property?

Chad never hints that the report came from any where other than his residence?

(In fact just the opposite as he tells us, MANY neighbors, MY house, half of the hikes I have gone on in MY area” etc. etc.

Yet you can STILL give Chad the benefit of the doubt that he’s not lying about his location?!

What I show above proves that with the evidence available Chad lied about his location.

In my opinion then if you can’t accept that it shows incredible bias and casts a portentous shadow over your ongoing research…..

Sincerely, All The Best & Cheers.
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #737 on: Jan 2nd, 2009, 4:31pm »

on Jan 2nd, 2009, 3:40pm, TeachersPet wrote:
How can you possibly say Useless..You have explored possibilities, surely all this time at least one.
Are you saying that without the Pis, you have no possibilities you have done on your own?
What possibilities are you then looking at because it seems all your time is spent fighting other peoples own conclusion it is hoax, but not submit your own work for critique..thats not a very openminded way to do things.

Thanks for the compliment!
Anyway, our own work is available here.
No need to copy/paste almost 5000 post here, check by yourself!
About my "fighting", this is not the way I see it, I'd say better "civilized discussion between openminded people to try do better understand what's between us" and each others.

on Jan 2nd, 2009, 3:40pm, TeachersPet wrote:
Well if you have nothing, something, anything, then I can see you saying that, but when you get something that can be looked at by everyone you can post it there. I am sure we all find it extremely useful then. It worked well at OMF, and it can work well Here. Especially here as I made it soley for your point of view, and with every protection in place.

Thanks for the proposition, but I prefer continue to work on my own.
And about OMF, yes it worked very well...... for those who believe it's a 100% hoax (since of course it's easier to prove it's a hoax than to prove it's real...)
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #738 on: Jan 2nd, 2009, 5:22pm »

on Jan 2nd, 2009, 4:23pm, Jeddyhi wrote:
Hi 11, Thanks for responding. You may have confirmed the non-photo witness, but you can't confirm they had a sighting. There is no way to do that. You have to take the witness at there word. That can be risky.
With a non photo sighting, when you have multiple witnesses all confirming each others testimony, then the probability of a sighting is high.

Sure, I understand this, but then one have to dismiss 56% of the world UFO sightings.
SOURCE (In French, sorrycheesy). From the AIAA article of J. Vallée and C. Poher.
I know by experience how difficult is it to make a "perfect" investigation, especially with a single witness.
However, when you're face to face with people, (and it's so true for experimented investigators) words and attitude can't lie (unless you have a VERY talented comedian, which can happen but seems very rare!).
I experienced it myself about a guy in France who pretended to catch an UFO in his camcorder.....
We were two investigators and easily saw the fraud when we were facing to him. The way he talked, his own contradictions, etc....
In the case of a genuine single witness, the sincerity don't lie.

on Jan 2nd, 2009, 4:23pm, Jeddyhi wrote:
In the case you refer to above, which I am familiar with, the Condone Committee also had this to say:

<snip>

So there were problems and inconsistencies that accompanied the physical evidence. The Condon Committee was wise to conclude as they did, based on the evidence presented. Stephen Michalak may or may not have had a sighting.

Sure, but it's the usual eternal debate in the UFO community!
We all know about the Condon Committee general conclusions and we also all know that there are lots of others various committee or investigations that conclude in another way.
This general question is important as it shows how different the conclusion for a same case can be, according to the various sources....
We have the same for the drone affair; but I'm not desperate one day to maybe conciliate all the views.

on Jan 2nd, 2009, 4:23pm, Jeddyhi wrote:
But again we are left with only their testimony and no way to confirm. Remember, some people do like attention. I'm not saying the ladies from 1981 are liars or attention seekers, just that some people do seek publicity.

I know this, it's a classic trap where lots of new investigators fall in.....
We can't maybe never know for sure if the non-photo drone witnesses seek or not publicity; however, like I said above, words and attitude don't lie (when we met them). And I trust every DRT core member for this, since the beginning.

on Jan 2nd, 2009, 4:23pm, Jeddyhi wrote:
If the long thorough road you are on takes you to where I have been, I'll buy you a beer and show you the shortcuts that logical deduction can create in such a long and winded journey! wink

That was (and is still) also for me a long thorough road (20 years!!) and my only hope is that, like everyone else here, the real disclosure will happen one day including all the drone materials (In case there's some reality in wink)
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #739 on: Jan 2nd, 2009, 5:38pm »

For me the kicker was when, I think it was doublenaught, mentioned something relevent shocked that really struck a cord with me.

It stung of truth.. ! How could a man like Chad, seriously.. think about this for a while.. have a pregnant wife and be concerned about their health and not make a call to any authority before contacting LMH..

Think about that.. does it seem first of all a natural response?? It really doesn't make sense either that he would go to LMH empty handed without some kind of reasoning like, "I called the county authorities and could get no reasonable explaination." But nothing.. nobody was contacted when his wife and unborn baby were "exposed" to something worrying him so much except for an attempt to get some answers from LMH??

Seems like Chad is "presuming" a lot. He has called no authorities because he suspects it's a ufo so he contacts LMH instead? Is that what we are to believe? Think about this.. would a father to be respond naturally this way? Just thinking here.

PS: I also don't think the spook is a day over 42 smiley

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #740 on: Jan 2nd, 2009, 5:41pm »

on Jan 2nd, 2009, 4:29pm, DrDil wrote:
Hi 11, it’s as good as a lie if Chad reports the Drone, says he lives in Bakersfield then DOESN’T say he spotted the Drone somewhere else. I guess it's down to perception as if you "know all of that" then I really don’t see how it can be ignored, as I’ve said Chad wrote:

“Most of the time I see it out of windows in my house, in the distance.”

Note: MY HOUSE

So it’s undeniable it was witnessed from the property he was living in.

“His pregnant wife was so upset he was concerned about her health and they were leaving their house to stay with relatives.”

Note: WERE LEAVING THEIR HOUSE

Written as the future tense.

Future tense: a verb form that marks the event described by the verb as not having happened yet, but expected to happen in the future.

Again, undeniable that this information was relayed to LMH from Chad’s property prior to ‘fleeing’.

Yet you still think he may have two houses when:

Chad doesn’t even own a digital camera or recorder?

Chad is going to stay with relatives, NOT to his other property?

Chad never hints at owning another property?

Chad never hints that the report came from any where other than his residence?

(In fact just the opposite as he tells us, MANY neighbors, MY house, half of the hikes I have gone on in MY area” etc. etc.

Yet you can STILL give Chad the benefit of the doubt that he’s not lying about his location?!

What I show above proves that with the evidence available Chad lied about his location.

In my opinion then if you can’t accept that it shows incredible bias and casts a portentous shadow over your ongoing research…..

Sincerely, All The Best & Cheers.

You have no evidence since you're not Chad.
It wold be better for Chad (and ussmiley) to say "I'll probably leaving my house near the Highway 17 to join my relatives who stayed at my Bakersfield house"cheesy.

Anyway, you said:
Quote:
"So it’s undeniable it was witnessed from the property he was living in."

Agree.
The problem is the way you interpret Chad's words.
“His pregnant wife was so upset he was concerned about her health and they were leaving their house to stay with relatives.” could also mean that he will leave his "Highway17" house to join his relatives in his Bakersfield (or relatives house) house.

Quote:
What I show above proves that with the evidence available Chad lied about his location.

You have prove nothing, except that you're quick to jump into conclusions with few words!!

Anyway, we are not Chad too, I cannot explain why Chad did what he did, only to say that there is inconclusive evidence to say he lied. There is only a number of leads that point in that direction. Shall we start executing everyone that looks and talks like a murderer, or should we investigate until there truth is found?

You're maybe right, I'm maybe wrong. But I don't care since whatever happens "it shows incredible bias and casts a portentous shadow over our ongoing research…."

Edit for correcting misspelling
« Last Edit: Jan 2nd, 2009, 6:15pm by elevenaugust » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #741 on: Jan 2nd, 2009, 5:45pm »

on Jan 2nd, 2009, 5:38pm, tomi01uk wrote:
For me the kicker was when, I think it was doublenaught, mentioned something relevent shocked that really struck a cord with me.

It stung of truth.. ! How could a man like Chad, seriously.. think about this for a while.. have a pregnant wife and be concerned about their health and not make a call to any authority before contacting LMH..

Think about that.. does it seem first of all a natural response?? It really doesn't make sense either that he would go to LMH empty handed without some kind of reasoning like, "I called the county authorities and could get no reasonable explaination." But nothing.. nobody was contacted when his wife and unborn baby were "exposed" to something worrying him so much except for an attempt to get some answers from LMH??

Seems like Chad is "presuming" a lot. He has called no authorities because he suspects it's a ufo so he contacts LMH instead? Is that what we are to believe? Think about this.. would a father to be respond naturally this way? Just thinking here.

PS: I also don't think the spook is a day over 42 smiley


Hi Tomi, the kicker for me was when Chad said it…

Is this an epiphany?

Perhaps what an alcoholic terms a, “Moment of clarity”?

Cheers!! smiley
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #742 on: Jan 2nd, 2009, 6:04pm »

I would have normally given someone the benefit of the doubt.

But with the circumstances, having found the place and knowing where the pictures were taken, acknowledging that this is a very scenic yet hidden to some degree spot, it would be an opportune scene to create the drone in. Knowing that the restaurant owner would have seen a drone fly by if it was around as much as Chad said.. and then the aspect of the pi's putting signs everywhere around there and nobody calling about it.. (as far as I know..)

Now that all this is given, it makes the clarity come out a bit brighter when I consider that he is a young new father and he is sending a picture of something to LMH instead of calling the county?

At least if he was in earnest, (with the sole exception of being a marijuana grower) he would hasten to call anyone, then turn to LMH with some kind of itinerary of what his struggle had been so far to identify this thing.

That would be the most natural response. The most likely way to turn to her. Not first. If he was in earnest, why didn't he call at least some officals and claim that in his email to LMH?

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #743 on: Jan 2nd, 2009, 6:05pm »

on Jan 2nd, 2009, 5:45pm, DrDil wrote:
Hi Tomi, the kicker for me was when Chad said it…

Is this an epiphany?

Perhaps what an alcoholic terms a, “Moment of clarity”?

Cheers!! smiley

Interesting,
Tomi , myself being a father and grandfather, I watched my wifes..exposure to anything, the slightest thing was a trip to clinic or ER. There are some who don't care..but very few I think..and as he asked, especially after headache and potential Radiation, which is in UFO literature, and said he was concerned..its odd his action was contrary to a caring father to be, for himself and his wife..
I agree the first thing would not be LMH
« Last Edit: Jan 2nd, 2009, 6:13pm by TeachersPet » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #744 on: Jan 2nd, 2009, 6:14pm »

Not that we haven't been over this a hunnert times, but there is also the obvious pattern here with Raj posting his sighting on Craigslist, and so on. Craigslist is a great place to see some seriously whacked postings, but I think bizarre ufo reports are still pretty rare. It always gets my suspicions up when fictional people behave in irrational ways. wink
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #745 on: Jan 2nd, 2009, 6:16pm »

on Jan 2nd, 2009, 5:41pm, elevenaugust wrote:
Anyway, you said:

Agree.
The problem is the way you interpret Chad's words.
“His pregnant wife was so upset he was concerned about her health and they were leaving their house to stay with relatives.” could also mean that he will leave his "Highway17" house to join his relatives in his Bakersfield (or relatives house) house.


Yo have prove nothing, except that you're quick to jump into conclusions with few words!!

Hi again 11, your refusal to accept a simple basic fact boggles the mind a little, in all honesty it’s worrying on several levels so this is the last I’ll say on the matter. smiley

Let me get this straight, you quote me saying:

“So it’s undeniable it was witnessed from the property he was living in."

To which you reply:

Agreed

Then you say, “The problem is the way you interpret Chad's words.”

THERE IS NO INTERPRETATION NECESSARY!! grin

We agree Chad claims he witnessed the Drone from the property he was living in.

LMH DIDN’T STATE BAKERSFIELD WAS WHERE CHAD LIVED.

LMH STATED IT WAS WHERE CHAD SAID THE DRONE WAS SPOTTED.


WE KNOW IT WASN’T.

CHAD LIED.


The following are screenshots from Earthfiles:

User Image

User Image

User Image

User Image

How can this simplest of facts not be accepted? undecided

God help you if/when you find out the Drones are a hoax….. laugh

Cheers. wink
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #746 on: Jan 2nd, 2009, 6:18pm »

on Jan 2nd, 2009, 6:14pm, Double Nought Spy wrote:
Not that we haven't been over this a hunnert times, but there is also the obvious pattern here with Raj posting his sighting on Craigslist, and so on. Craigslist is a great place to see some seriously whacked postings, but I think bizarre ufo reports are still pretty rare. It always gets my suspicions up when fictional people behave in irrational ways. wink


Who exactly spotted the craigslist posting....anybody remember?
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #747 on: Jan 2nd, 2009, 6:21pm »

on Jan 2nd, 2009, 6:14pm, Double Nought Spy wrote:
Not that we haven't been over this a hunnert times, but there is also the obvious pattern here with Raj posting his sighting on Craigslist, and so on. Craigslist is a great place to see some seriously whacked postings, but I think bizarre ufo reports are still pretty rare. It always gets my suspicions up when fictional people behave in irrational ways. wink


Yeah, well that's a would be could be kinda thing there. Open to a lot more rationalism then Chad never calling any county office to ask about this thing flying around his pregnant wife before emailing LMH. That has the sting of truth.. no natural father would do that I think.. unless he was as I said.. growing something... tongue
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #748 on: Jan 2nd, 2009, 6:26pm »

OK, has anyone here ever seen anything remotely like a ufo sighting posted to Craigslist? Why not eBay?
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #749 on: Jan 2nd, 2009, 6:31pm »

on Jan 2nd, 2009, 6:26pm, Double Nought Spy wrote:
OK, has anyone here ever seen anything remotely like a ufo sighting posted to Craigslist? Why not eBay?
hmmm right..
quite inventive, but rationalisable as well i suppose...
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