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Latitude
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #765 on: Jan 3rd, 2009, 01:37am »

Hi Tuna,

That is true. Chad never did say he took the photos in Bakersfield. It was long after he sent in his report and drone photos to C2C that he told Linda "I am 10 miles outside of Bakersfield", just like 11A said. Maybe Chad tried to throw her off, maybe not. It is possible he had moved or was visiting relatives or away on business at the time he made that statement.

But even if Chad lied through his teeth, even if every word coming from him was a lie, it still does not prove the photos are fake. But those looking for an excuse to pass the drone case off can go ahead and use the Bakersfield thing to substantiate their agenda. Hey, I think Chad also neglected to dot an I too. That seals it. HOAX!!! wink



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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #766 on: Jan 3rd, 2009, 01:42am »

I can see what you are saying Tuna, something like that as possible..but lets take that to its conclusion.:
.then you would have the audience living in the Bakersfirld area wasting time looking to see if they could spot one, especially as Chad claimed it was frequent. That probably happened, they looked and see nothing.That would then undermine any real look outs and sightings in the area where it actually took place. behind the Restaurant. Which we know didnt, except one place the highly questionable Scotts Valley about 15 minutes or less away. The needle nose drone. But imagine if really happened at restaurant, then it woud look like multiple sitings..But we know it was not.
Linda was always pleading for folx to be on the look out and call in or email her . Take the chicago one, the peeping drone with sparkles, she made special plea on c2c.
Normally what is done is the names and address have been changed to preserve anonymity..and no further change, so in case someone spots something in same general area she and everyone else can can catch it.

Thats what she did.put Bakersfield...But it wasnt't the area, in fact..MarsAve wrote her, and subsequently showed the PIs what is now common knowledge.
So it doesnt look like it was understood by her as other than where Chad told her, as emails don't have a return address..just email name and unless of course she did an IP check herself. After a dozen emails back and forth, she would have known somebody was not right, especially after the email and pictures she got from MarsAve.
The result whether Lying or negligence, is still remains then a non factual statement , relying on what Chad told her of course. Believing him, like she unfortunately,believed kris video, and reporting it as she normally does. Reporting the general location, whether at Bakersfield, or Restaurant, would never have hurt privacy..She knows what the protocol is. Giving wrong location, is wrong protocol , and actually jeopordizes seeing more UFOs in area, and hurts the story. She did only as Chad was telling her..
I hope that made sense.
« Last Edit: Jan 3rd, 2009, 03:59am by TeachersPet » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #767 on: Jan 3rd, 2009, 01:57am »

I RAN ACROSS THIS ARTICLE WHICH COINCIDED WITH MUCH OF THE RESEARCH PUT FORTH AND INCLUDED SOME ADDITIONAL ANGLES NOT SEEN BY ME...

THOUGHT I WOULD TOSS IT IN THE MIX TO STIR THE DEBATE...LIKE THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE grin

http://www.rense.com/general84/drone.htm

I MUST SAY I HAVE MUCH RESPECT TO ONE AND ALL REGARDLESS OF THEIR POSITION ON THIS MATTER.
THE CIVILTY IN DISCUSSING THIS DEVISIVE TOPIC HAS SHOWN THE INTELLIGENCE OF ALL...

SHALOM...ZETAR
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #768 on: Jan 3rd, 2009, 02:27am »

Thank you Zetar!! I went and screen captured but hope people go to
www.Rense.com and www.data4science.net Teds site so the get background for him and see he is not a fanatic debunker..
'Drone' Photo Analysis
Lays Issue To Rest
By Ted Twietmeyer
1-1-9

It's good attempt...but not quite perfect. We will use vector analysis of sunlight direction to analyze this image.

The top image was posted on the original website at
http://screenrant.com/sarah-connor-chronicles-california-drones- mystery-brusimm-4647/

(See text below image for description of problems.)
User Image
User Image

Description of vector analysis:

1. Looking at image enlargement which shows the illuminated, circled area A, we clearly see sunlight originating from the right side of the image as indicated by vector D.

2. The telephone pole crossbar is casting a shadow (E) on the pole itself. Since this circumvents one-half of the pole, this shadow requires the sun to originate overhead from approximately the high noon direction, as shown by vector C.

3. Bottom enlargement also shows sunlight vector C could create the shadow on the back side of both white insulators which we see here.

4. In the bottom-most enlargement, we see where the "wing" of the craft passing behind the insulator. At the right edge of the insulator, we see that the angled insulator displays a vertical area (circled and notated as B.) Image resolution appears to show that this should not be present, when looking at other areas of this same enlargement. This may be an artifact of combining two seperate images. No computer graphics software is perfect.

5. Returning to small insert showing circled area E, we see that the shadow on this side of the pole is on the same side as sunlight is for area A in nearby enlargement. This is also a contradiction.

6. In all depictions of this flying object, the "wings" or stabilizers are shown parallel to the ground. This requires a shadow of the wing or stabilizer be seen on the side of the vehicle's body when sunlight originates from overhead. But enlargement A clearly shows this is not the case.

Perhaps the function of the telephone pole and power lines were used to provide the viewer with an idea of scale. Something like this is required by the graphic artist. Otherwise, against an featureless blue sky one could not determine the size of the object.

This image was posted by Issac on his website, who is also the originator of the ISCARET material. These contradictions and more cast a shadow over his entire story. Others have shown that all the video of this object was performed as CGI, and this analysis provides further confirmation.

Ted Twietmeyer

« Last Edit: Jan 3rd, 2009, 02:30am by TeachersPet » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #769 on: Jan 3rd, 2009, 03:17am »

on Jan 2nd, 2009, 11:28pm, Marvin wrote:
Its the Dead Parrot thing DrDil.

Cheers!

Or.....Although, you're probably right.

Cheers!! grin
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #770 on: Jan 3rd, 2009, 03:54am »

Nice discussion by Zen_anarchist on the use of Illustrator font that shouldnt have been for that year in Caret that Josh, I mean, Abraham, I mean, Isaac said it was.
Odd isnt it Zetar? smiley

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=289007&page=402#pid5563661
smiley
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #771 on: Jan 3rd, 2009, 04:35am »

on Jan 2nd, 2009, 7:31pm, DrDil wrote:
Heh, heh, I provide screen-shots, direct quotes and known facts.

You supply ‘what-if’ and ‘Lat said so’…..

Cheers. wink laugh

What you have is only your own translation....and interpretation. So it's not better than my "what if" and "Lat said so...."rolleyes
Your are putting your own words in Chad's mouth. This is A fact...
Again, "I am about 10 miles outside of Bakersfield" is surely an evasive answer that can be interpreted in every way you want (or need) So, I dunno, maybe LMH misunderstood him or misinterpret his own words, just like you did.
Lat agree with me, what's the problem with this?
« Last Edit: Jan 3rd, 2009, 04:37am by elevenaugust » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #772 on: Jan 3rd, 2009, 04:37am »

on Jan 3rd, 2009, 01:37am, Latitude wrote:
That is true. Chad never did say he took the photos in Bakersfield. It was long after he sent in his report and drone photos to C2C that he told Linda "I am 10 miles outside of Bakersfield", just like 11A said.

Ha, ha. Unbelievable!! laugh

So now it’s not Chad lying its LMH?

Have a look at the following image:

User Image

Again, this is simple logic.

If Chad merely said he was located in Bakersfield then LMH is lying.

Just to be sure before we continue, are you saying with 100% certainty that LMH has fabricated the fact that Chad told her he SEEN the Drone (NOT lives) in Bakersfield?

Irrespective of where he lives Chad exchanged several emails with LMH.

LMH states the Drone was spotted in Bakersfield.

ALL ambiguity is removed by LMH as she doesn’t say it’s where he lives, she says it’s where the Drone was spotted.

And regarding, “Long after” it all depends how you gauge time I suppose…..

LMH credited Chad as taking his photographs on the 6th MAY 2007.

LMH FIRST reported this on the 16th MAY 2007.

Quote:
05/16/2007 - Odd Aerial "Drones"? Over Lake Tahoe and Central California

LMH FIRST reported the Bakersfield location on the 25th MAY 2007.

Quote:
05/25/2007 - Two More Eyewitnesses of Aerial "Drones" in 2005 and 2006

You surely remember as it accompanied the Shirley account and was also (personally) memorable as the caption that accompanied the image of the map had the word ‘and’ repeated:

User Image

So that’s 19 days between the C2C report and the one LMH states Bakersfield.

Yep, your, “Long after” is a whole 19 days after C2C ran the story…..

It’s simple, either Chad lied when he said Bakersfield or LMH lied when she said that’s where Chad said the photographs were taken.

Cheers (Happy New Year Lat!!) smiley
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #773 on: Jan 3rd, 2009, 04:44am »

on Jan 3rd, 2009, 04:35am, elevenaugust wrote:
What you have is only your own translation....and interpretation. So it's not better than my "what if" and "Lat said so...."rolleyes
Your are putting your own words in Chad's mouth. This is A fact...
Again, "I am about 10 miles outside of Bakersfield" is surely an evasive answer that can be interpreted in every way you want (or need) So, I dunno, maybe LMH misunderstood him or misinterpret his own words, just like you did.
Lat agree with me, what's the problem with this?

Hi 11!! grin

By a fortuitous coincidence I’ve just answered this question (see above text).

So, in your opinion who is mistaken?

Did LMH intentionally mislead and say the Drone was in Bakersfield or did Chad?

Cheers. smiley
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #774 on: Jan 3rd, 2009, 04:57am »

on Jan 2nd, 2009, 11:22pm, Marvin wrote:
I have to give you guys credit… a year and a half plus 27 pages… now that is being open minded.

Thank you for the credit.

on Jan 2nd, 2009, 11:22pm, Marvin wrote:
Yep.
And who are those “experts?”

Héhé!cheesy The Experts I refer to is your own so-called expert that said "looks like". Is it a real serious analysis??
Except the Raj shadows anomalies, your "experts" have nothing.

on Jan 2nd, 2009, 11:22pm, Marvin wrote:
I have not looked into them… I do not know.

You're talking like if you are an "expert" but didn't know about all the testimonies??rolleyes
C'mmon Marvin!


on Jan 2nd, 2009, 11:22pm, Marvin wrote:
Let’s see, Ty, Chad, Raj… hmmm, but you keep rewriting history with possibilities to fill in the disagreements… so you probably won’t see any issues.

Nope. I only examine all the possibilities, [url=http://droneteam.com/drt/index.php?topic=124.0]including the fRe: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
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Mmm, yes, very curious, very interesting....


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Image &start=787#52 date=1231013222]<br>We misunderstand each other. Don't play the victim!![/quote]<br><br>I see you are misunderstanding me. When I said “our” part, I was talking about how you are justifying it. I make no claim of misunderstanding the “witnesses” story (or of being a victim)… you are saying we are misunderstanding the witness’s story.<br><br><br>[quote author=elevenaugust link=board=drone&num=1223123924&start=787#52 date=1231013222]<br>Yes, we should find a common ground, in spite of the difficulties.<br>[/quote]<br><br>I fully agree. If two people exactly share the same POV… they will arrive at the same solution. They had better be darn sure their shared POV is correct (or the correct solution may be something difficult for them to find). Having different POV does have advantages.<br><br><br>[quote author=elevenaugust link=board=drone&num=1223123924&start=787#52 date=1231013222]<br>Again, no, I see it like "alternative explanation" or "others reasonable possibilities". <br>Maybe I should be more cautious and put words in each of my sentences like "IMO", "could be", "maybe", "why not?", etc.... like you did for your own "facts".[/quote]<br><br>I have no problems with your opinions 11. You have demonstrated some mighty fine work in the past (and I am willing to give you the credit you deserve for it). But I agree that we both should be more sensitive to separating fact from opinion as you have said above.<br><br>[quote author=elevenaugust link=board=drone&num=1223123924&start=787#52 date=1231013222]<br>The only biased scientific approach I see is the one that you used for your "smoking guns" in Ty's pictures.<br>[/quote]<br><br><br>You forgot to follow your own advice (IMHO). ;)<br><br>I think if you go back and read that tread you disagree with so much, you will see that I said “it appears…” or in other words, IMHO.<br><br>Here is why I think so (compare the tree outlines):<br><br><br>[IMG]http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff290/instantmartians/Tyback.gif[/IMG]<br><br>[IMG]http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff290/instantmartians/TyBB2FF.gif[/IMG]<br><br>[IMG]http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff290/instantmartians/CC2DDcompare.gif[/IMG]<br><br>[IMG]http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff290/instantmartians/CC2LLblend.gif[/IMG]<br><br>[IMG]http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff290/instantmartians/TyBackground.gif[/IMG]<br><br>Out of the 10 photos that were presented, only two or three showed a leaf or two that had “moved.” Yet, the distance change between the trees would suggest that you should see a lot of change in the tree outlines… it is simply missing... there is no change in perspective with the trees in any of the photos (which is my point).<br><br>Example:<br><br>[IMG]http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff290/instantmartians/TreePerspec.gif[/IMG]<br><br>Shows the change in perspective in the foreground trees.<br><br>[IMG]http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff290/instantmartians/TreePerspecB.gif[/IMG]<br><br>Shows the change in perspective in the background trees.<br><br>And I only moved 5 feet.<br><br>IMHO. (and I am finished reexplaining this for the 100th time). ;D Oh, and your are still busted. ;)<br><br>Marvin<br><br><br>Edit to fix GIF.<br>
« Reply #775 on: Jan 3rd, 2009, 4:13pm »

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #776 on: Jan 3rd, 2009, 4:13pm »

I still think the whole ball of yarn points squarely at the LAP for some reason.

The story as described, from front to back has holes....but the LAP design itself is probably the most interesting.

The credit for this line of reasoning goes to JakeReason.

Someone went to a lot of trouble to put it into the public domain.

Why?
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #777 on: Jan 3rd, 2009, 4:22pm »

on Jan 3rd, 2009, 3:46pm, Double Nought Spy wrote:
Well put, Jeddyhi. Some time ago, someone like maybe Dr Dil pointed out that the Isaac narrative does not even work well as sci-fi. At first glance, it is obviously slick and well presented, but when you really take a good look at it, there isn't much below the surface. As you pointed out, there are some very serious holes and logical disconnects in Isaac's yarn.

<snip>

Indeed and no doubt amongst many others, in fact I just posted something along those very lines.

(Work in progress wink).

Cheers!! grin

(EDIT: Hadn't updated the page, sorted now.....)
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #778 on: Jan 3rd, 2009, 4:30pm »

on Jan 3rd, 2009, 4:08pm, Marvin wrote:
I see you are misunderstanding me. When I said “our” part, I was talking about how you are justifying it. I make no claim of misunderstanding the “witnesses” story (or of being a victim)… you are saying we are misunderstanding the witness’s story.

My mistake.

on Jan 3rd, 2009, 4:08pm, Marvin wrote:
I fully agree. If two people exactly share the same POV… they will arrive at the same solution. They had better be darn sure their shared POV is correct (or the correct solution may be something difficult for them to find). Having different POV does have advantages.

Finally, something we can agree on.shocked

on Jan 3rd, 2009, 4:08pm, Marvin wrote:
I have no problems with your opinions 11. You have demonstrated some mighty fine work in the past (and I am willing to give you the credit you deserve for it). But I agree that we both should be more sensitive to separating fact from opinion as you have said above.
[...]
I think if you go back and read that tread you disagree with so much, you will see that I said “it appears…” or in other words, IMHO.

Fair enough.

I understood your work on KK-LL pictures, but if I could gives you an advice, it would be to try to get the same result in a more scientific way; i-e using math to prove it (Trigonometry, for example).
I know you're allergic to the DRT forum, but you really should take a look here.

As a conclusion, I will take Jedd's wise words, and maybe should also do the same thing:
Quote:
Being as this is now 2009 and one of my resolutions is to be less confrontational while discussing the drones, I do respect that others may view Isaac as a hero. I respect that opinion. I just don't agree with it. In my opinion, find Isaac and you have found the main ringleader of an internet hoax.

Peace!





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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #779 on: Jan 3rd, 2009, 5:25pm »

on Jan 3rd, 2009, 4:13pm, murnut wrote:
I still think the whole ball of yarn points squarely at the LAP for some reason.

The story as described, from front to back has holes....but the LAP design itself is probably the most interesting.

The credit for this line of reasoning goes to JakeReason.

Someone went to a lot of trouble to put it into the public domain.

Why?


Not really. With a vector art program like Illustrator and a little time all of Isaac's diagrams could be made without all that much trouble or time. I have never been impressed with anything Isaac put out as by the time that crapola was released it was already pretty obvious the entire drone saga was nothing but an internet hoax built to suck in the gullible.
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