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TeachersPet
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #795 on: Jan 3rd, 2009, 8:46pm »

on Jan 3rd, 2009, 8:21pm, murnut wrote:
Two years is a long time to wait....and the details, although not perfect, are fairly impressive.

I don't believe it is a hoax for hoax sake.

I agree with that in this case, but The moon hoax was impressive too, but still a hoax. We must be leary and alert for the shock and awe effect.
I think Mur what Kat had inmind..was that with tech and graphics tools now in the possession of millions, including some inclined to pranks, like church of the subgenious, it can become a race of one upsmanship even among them, and if impressive enough, even by only one such person, it can make its way easily through the porous internet.
Just like hackers race to see who can hack certain codes before another..or the Anonymous group that went up against the COS. That was a social phenomena in itself that grew exponentially in no time.
Some may recieve satisfaction, like paint forgerers...whos paintings may hang on walls even today. They don't lay claim to fame, and can enjoy their spoils, as long as they remain quiet.
Manytimes, the victims of scams too, even banks, just say nothing, to maintain their own reputations, even those that have a bad reputation. smiley
For certain film makers , its an art form.
But it hoaxing has become an EOE, the tools are there for everybody at any level of the social strata or walk of life.
And hoaxing does occurr in all walks of life, but its much easier and very evident, to push on the paranormal community when People like Linda and George, and others, don't take the time to even google who their scheduled guests are or check simple emails, before throwing it upon audience.
That is unacceptable by any standard.


« Last Edit: Jan 3rd, 2009, 9:31pm by TeachersPet » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #796 on: Jan 3rd, 2009, 9:08pm »

on Jan 3rd, 2009, 8:46pm, TeachersPet wrote:
The moon hoax was impressive too, but still a hoax.
I think Mur what Kat had inmind..was that with tech and graphics tools now in the possession of millions, including some inclined to pranks, like church of the subgenious, it can become a race of one upsmanship even among them, and if impressive enough, it can make its way easily through the porous internet.
Just like hackers race to see who can hack certain codes before another..or the Anonymous group that went up against the COS. That was a social phenomena in itself that grew exponentially in no time.
Some may recieve satisfaction, like paint forgerers...whos paintings may hang on walls even today. They don't lay claim to fame, and can enjoy their spoils, as long as they remain quiet.
Manytimes, the victims of scams too, even banks, just say nothing, to maintain their own reputations.
For certain film makers , its an art form.
But it hoaxing has become an EOE, the tools are there for everybody at any level of the social strata or walk of life.
And hoaxing does occurr in all walks of life, but its much easier to push on the paranormal community.




Maybe...

Still, a lot of work went in to this....not to be recognized.



So who is going to one up this one, and when?

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #797 on: Jan 3rd, 2009, 9:13pm »

Google Ads are always doing funny things. Down there at the bottom of the page just a moment ago was a link marked "7th Grade Math." We can tell what Google thought of the math discussion here, it would seem.

It's easy to lose sight of the fact that this is a failed hoax. Yes, it kept a lot of people's interest for an absurdly long time, but the only reason this discussion is still going is that some of us persistent types are determined to ferret out the people who did this so we can publicly humiliate them. I'm pretty sure the folks who have bought this nonsense and still believe it, would all fit in a single Greyhound bus.

The people who try this kind of crap think they are extremely clever, but the reality is there are hordes of people out there dying to believe in something like this. The fact that most of them have given up on the drones says it all.
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #798 on: Jan 3rd, 2009, 9:52pm »

Ahh Mur, I had just edited my last post, to say I am in agreement.

I agree with that in this case, but The moon hoax was impressive too, but still a hoax. We must be leary and alert for the shock and awe effect.
I think Mur what Kat had inmind..was that with tech and graphics tools now in the possession of millions, including some inclined to pranks, like church of the subgenious, it can become a race of one upsmanship even among them, and if impressive enough, even by only one such person, it can make its way easily through the porous internet.
Just like hackers race to see who can hack certain codes before another..or the Anonymous group that went up against the COS. That was a social phenomena in itself that grew exponentially in no time.
Some may recieve satisfaction, like paint forgerers...whos paintings may hang on walls even today. They don't lay claim to fame, and can enjoy their spoils, as long as they remain quiet.
Manytimes, the victims of scams too, even banks, just say nothing, to maintain their own reputations, even those that have a bad reputation.
For certain film makers , its an art form.
But it hoaxing has become an EOE, the tools are there for everybody at any level of the social strata or walk of life.
And hoaxing does occurr in all walks of life, but its much easier and very evident, to push on the paranormal community when People like Linda and George, and others, don't take the time to even google who their scheduled guests are or check simple emails, before throwing it upon audience.
That is unacceptable by any standard.

.and yes it had purposes. in this hoax...It takes me longto correct typos..my vision is not good. I am sorry really. I think it clearer now.
just I think at most no more then 20-30on both sides together.
and, if you add the posts between ATS and OM and here..
about 20 percent were from Tommi and Numbers.. alone.
Perhaps I will break it down and post my findings a little later.
The rest were mostly Us and same DRT..same people.
And yes Double..Thats what most people do tune in for..to see if we have gotten closer to hoaxter..not really to see if its real.
Our agenda..is quite different than theirs.

But together all, Yes Double we can fit a Greyhound Bus, with room to spare...I used to ride them all the time. smiley

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« Last Edit: Jan 3rd, 2009, 10:18pm by TeachersPet » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #799 on: Jan 3rd, 2009, 11:47pm »

on Jan 3rd, 2009, 01:42am, TeachersPet wrote:
The result whether Lying or negligence, is still remains then a non factual statement , relying on what Chad told her of course. Believing him, like she unfortunately,believed kris video, and reporting it as she normally does. Reporting the general location, whether at Bakersfield, or Restaurant, would never have hurt privacy..She knows what the protocol is. Giving wrong location, is wrong protocol , and actually jeopordizes seeing more UFOs in area, and hurts the story. She did only as Chad was telling her..
I hope that made sense.


I see what you are saying also, but, is LMH competent to you? If you think she is, then you have to think Chad is lying... If you think she isn't, then you have to agree that she could have made a mistake when reporting the location...

There are a lot of holes in the story, but it doesn't mean the whole thing is not real... That is where I stand... If one main piece of the puzzle is real, then this is not a hoax, to me at least!

Tuna
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #800 on: Jan 3rd, 2009, 11:50pm »

on Jan 3rd, 2009, 9:08pm, murnut wrote:
Maybe...

Still, a lot of work went in to this....not to be recognized.



So who is going to one up this one, and when?



I agree, and for FOX to take a piece of their work and still not be recognizedhuh

Tuna
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #801 on: Jan 4th, 2009, 02:05am »

on Jan 3rd, 2009, 11:50pm, newtothis wrote:
I agree, and for FOX to take a piece of their work and still not be recognizedhuh

Tuna

I agree, and an excellent observation.Every one of these movie studios, have a research dept to determine who owns what. Just to avoid the problem fox and warner have now with the Watchmen movie..Fox had rights..it did not use..Warner then made a humongous anticipated film, then Fox went in for the Kill. They have not settled on it yet.

Here, There was not even a credit posted by Warner who made the film. They said it was a homage to Chris Carter of of x files., but they did an almost verbatum swipe of the materials of Isaac. with minor modifications. They already admitted changing Isaac to Abraham in October 2008, when they hired the Female actor Dinah Lenney, which indicates they had it Isaac up until then. They completed (or modified to remove Isaac references and whoever/whatever they may have had in originally) that episode on October 24, 2008.
If someone can point a prior swipe like that without consequences or acknowledgement please let me know.
This points to prior arrangement.They had partnered with Warners and C2, Terminator makers, back in November 2006, with filming starting in January 2007.
Fox announced the first lineup on May 12, 2007. Who else was around then? Perhaps they were casting for drones too.
Warners Josh Frieman announced a "new" Skynet component (the drone we saw in the show) on June 20, 2007. Isaac came out on June 26, 2007. Fox announced SCC lineup again on July 9, 2007 and Comic Con conference July26, 2007. Linda mysteriously canceled her special drone interview on or about July 23, 2007. Then the bottom fell after that.


Yes, the timing is eerie Tuna. Sudden last minute changes to episodes already completed the Year before,
well it makes me wonder too. If they didnt pay or credit or its theirs..its pretty bizarre case of plagiarsm for a studio and unsung hero Isaac. Then as I have said elsewhere, You can't steal whats already yours.

To answer your question my friend, and I mean that sincerely, .all I can say..look at her track record..but she is still in business. Beliefs notwithstanding. Business is business.

has anyone heard the Bill Knellis Interview..It is hysterical..oddly..for Americans who follow politics, he sounds just like the famous Senator..Newt Gingrich..I swear!
http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/media.blubrry.com/paranormal/www.theparacast.com/podcasts/paracast_081228.mp3
any comments on the Rense thing Zetar put up?
http://www.rense.com/general84/drone.htm
« Last Edit: Jan 4th, 2009, 02:42am by TeachersPet » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #802 on: Jan 4th, 2009, 04:55am »

on Jan 3rd, 2009, 6:59pm, Marvin wrote:
I hold nothing against Trig… judging by your photo (with Lat), I took Trig before you were born. grin

Héhé, the knowledge have nothing to do with the age, but rather with your education and your scientific curiosity, don't you think so?

on Jan 3rd, 2009, 6:59pm, Marvin wrote:
But if you won’t post your Trig research here, then I guess I will hold on to my research. wink

I see that you again conveniently avoid to explain (in a scientific way, of coursecheesy) the accuracy of your demonstration.
I see that you also conveniently avoid to use trigonometry and maths to further prove your demonstration, it's a pity! That's speaks volume!!
I wonder why? Maybe you can't?cheesy
« Last Edit: Jan 4th, 2009, 04:56am by elevenaugust » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #803 on: Jan 4th, 2009, 05:03am »

on Jan 3rd, 2009, 7:04pm, TeachersPet wrote:
So don't be an Insulting JERK.....

You are in every respect as I see it a Hippocrite and Fraudsters lackey with an agenda...

I never insulted you, so don't need to take this way, ok?
Insults only reveal the lack of arguments of those who use them....
Think about it.
FYI
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #804 on: Jan 4th, 2009, 05:23am »

on Jan 3rd, 2009, 07:11am, neveleeleven wrote:
You know the "The Big Basin (Stephen Images)", they are the ONLY attempt at true depth of field

About the BB DOF, here are Stephen's own words:
"yesterday I was up around big basin for I disagreeignment like I've been mentioning for the last couple weeks -- the theme for those that don't remember was photographing something at a small scale against a large scale backdrop to contrast scales and to play with depth of field etc --
I chose to photograph a couple of flower/weed things growing right on the edge of a drop off with the valley in
the background."

We know his images are consistent with this story, but
that's not all - advanced cameras have a special mode for
this kind of experiments, something that's called the "aperture priority" mode and if you check EXIF data, that's exactly what he used - and exactly the kind of thing he would be instructed to use for his assignment by his photo class. So it's yet another tiny little detail that fits...
SOURCE: Nekitamo's posting on OMF

on Jan 3rd, 2009, 07:11am, neveleeleven wrote:
There is multiple flaws in the "depth of field" on ALL of the images. Yes, even the images where the hoaxer literally was trying to fake depth of field.

1111, thank you for sharing with us your "multiple flaws". I knew you couldn't resist cheesy.
Beside your affirmations and opinions about the BB drone (where are your REAL studies, i-e the physical study with EXIF data: f-number [aperture], research of the circle of confusion, etc.....? Oh I know, you don't need them to say there is a DOF problemrolleyes), I took a closer look at your example on Chad's picture (in spite of the fact that we haven't any EXIF datas) and think actually a better analysis is possible:

on Jan 3rd, 2009, 07:11am, neveleeleven wrote:
[...]BUT ALL THE REST OF THE DRONE IMAGES DONT HAVE ANY DEPTH OF FIELD![...]

The worst of all DOF problems is this Chad image:
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In the above picture, I see DOF working on the trees, but NOT on the drone. The drone is so out of place, and I can't believe they actually tried to put the arm of the drone behind the tree.

Since we haven't any EXIF data, we can use the "edge detect Sobel" tool to determine the exact amount of blurr or sharp. Did you try it? At least, a real experiment would be better than only words.
I actually work on it and the results are interesting....

on Jan 3rd, 2009, 07:11am, neveleeleven wrote:
Not only is the DOF messed up on that image but they TOTALY IGNORED natural effects such as slight silhouetting because of back lighting.

Some others examples of "fakes images" because of "slight silhouetting because of back lighting" with a lighter background:
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Since there are so much various parameters to take into account for make a real photo expertise and that the most important are missing (EXIFs), any study will never be 100% accurate.
You tried anyway.
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #805 on: Jan 4th, 2009, 08:49am »

TP, I like the bus analogy. Not sure what kind of bus trip yet - tour, cross country, event transportation or whatever. Maybe driving off a cliff? shocked

Elevenaugust, I have seen your set of underside images many times. The drone/pole shots are the only ones that have other underside reference objects that introduce some lighting contradictions. Those other pictures don't add much and could have been enhanced, who knows. Some of the drone images without good reference points or other info are beyond proving or disproving with math.

Math is fine but not always the right or only problem solving method. Can you disprove a sleight of hand trick with it? Mirror illusions can prove real with trig.

Sorry for the rehash, just following the course of this thread with nothing better to do at this moment. You can't keep trying to beat some of this stuff (someone coined the horses shadow) to death with math. You'll go nuts and be doing equation solving till the drones come home.
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #806 on: Jan 4th, 2009, 08:49am »

on Jan 3rd, 2009, 11:47pm, newtothis wrote:
I see what you are saying also, but, is LMH competent to you? If you think she is, then you have to think Chad is lying... If you think she isn't, then you have to agree that she could have made a mistake when reporting the location...

There are a lot of holes in the story, but it doesn't mean the whole thing is not real... That is where I stand... If one main piece of the puzzle is real, then this is not a hoax, to me at least!

Tuna


Well, incompetent is not a word I would use in any way here. We should remember that at the time LMH was a bit busy juggling a lot of drone info coming her way.

I truly believe that if all this had landed on someone else's lap without all the years of experience she has had in investigative journalism on matters like this.. we would have a lot less information to go on. She did what she could do at the time.. Just like all of us would have done. Hindsight is 20/20. Esp when it comes to nailing down issues.. esp when you are dealing with intractable ppl.

I may be able to offer some insight here because I was the one to tell her on the phone that the boys had found the spot where the Chad photos were taken.

I remember telling her "wait till you see the pictures", she was not "dismissive" but she was wary.. so I remember telling her several times in our conversation that it was the spot and she will know this as soon as she see's the pictures. Well, she wrote back very surprised that there was no denying it.. that was indeed the location. So up to that point I think she thought that Bakersfield was the area that Chad meant when he said he took pictures of the drone.

Hope this helps and I hope everyone realises that not only has this mystery deepened for all of us, it has also deepened for LMH as well. And thankfully we had her expertise to get what could be asked of these intractable "witnesses". I'm sure she wishes she had a second opportunity to nail a few things down in hindsight too no doubt.
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #807 on: Jan 4th, 2009, 09:04am »

on Jan 4th, 2009, 02:05am, TeachersPet wrote:
I agree, and an excellent observation.Every one of these movie studios, have a research dept to determine who owns what.


Guys take it from me or not.. but I know what I'm talking about with copyright issues..

The main reason why the images in the SOC final episode were not the same images as the original drone images, etc..

Is simply so that the production material (the images created for the show) could be wholely owned as original material. (copyrightable)

Let me explain another way.. If they had used original designs exactly as given by the witnesses or Isaac, then the show's producers would never be able to have legal rights to that material. That would surely open up a can of worms. Esp if they are planning a further series..

So they want what they can own.. Simple as that.
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #808 on: Jan 4th, 2009, 09:17am »

on Jan 4th, 2009, 02:05am, TeachersPet wrote:
its pretty bizarre case of plagiarsm for a studio and unsung hero Isaac.


Esp considering all the thanks he gets is to be turned into a transvestite and shot smiley... tongue

If there is a real Isaac out there, he is probably not terribly pleased..

But regardless, the images in the series are different enough to be copyrightable by the producers. That is what you have here.

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #809 on: Jan 4th, 2009, 09:22am »

Eleven, you have said same thing over and over inconclusive inconclusive..thats your opinion. Other people here have different. None of them is 100 percent perfect, including myself. You are 100 percent sure its inconclusive. Its not so inconclusive to us....we also have the factor people. Thats our POV opinion.
the times, and circumstances..the most important part, who became even more important when some evidence, like you say some may be fake, some real. Knowing that..that some may be fake, you all had the money, to send them all to forensic expert of your choice. You chose not to.
You all still can do it..but you don't.

We are happy with our conclusion, even though we are not 100 percent perfect. It was not our burden to prove real. But you knew what you had to do and did not do it.
Then we all would have something more perfect to to critique.


So dont feed us that not one hundred percent crap.!!
This feels like those situations in market development, that have to get so many posts and hits, before you are compensated by the client. If you dont get quota, you dont get anything. You know about those kind don't you?. Of course you do..You are smart man.
Just keep the conversation silliness going and the count up and get the pay. You are not doing that are you ? I hope not..


So if you only have inconclusiive, and nothing more to add..and don't do the right thing then and now....who gives a hoot what you think? What you do is more annoyance and harrasment then..when you don't do what you should have done.

We think hoax and we look for hoaxer..whether you like it or not. Not perfect for you, but good enough for us.
An imperfect solution in an imperfect world.

Have a nice day.

@Tomi, The only copyright I saw by you was the brochure, with that company.how does that make you expert. I am looking at timing..of the development of scc and timing of Drone appearances, and that story was traceable and modified..but still obviously traceable to Isaac story and essentially published on that Website....who said ok to take but only if not modified..and kept together..IN BOLD..Whether they use man or woman was not important except that both stories are about transformation..Isaac goes from straight follow orders guy, to exposure to knowledge of et, to life changing and decides to change life..the Same for Sarah Connors..Both lives changed..Sarah was waitress..Isaac was essentially a computer/software guy..essentially what they sometimes call in that trade a software waitress..I found that curious. And why copyright would not become an issue either. So we are not far apart.

Well if it was his why hasn;t he come out and sued? may it was them all the time..so copyright in that case is a moot issue.
If it wasn't then we need more to rule them that possibility out..thats how I do..when I see parallel timing like that.














« Last Edit: Jan 4th, 2009, 10:31am by TeachersPet » User IP Logged

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