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 sticky  Author  Topic: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Truth  (Read 16043 times)
tommi01
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #840 on: Jan 4th, 2009, 3:25pm »

on Jan 4th, 2009, 3:00pm, TeachersPet wrote:
Tomi, Farid is the guy I got the cost estimate from that I gave last year.
Why can't DRT use him as you use him as a reference. and I know you suggested it to them. So its not your fault. Its theirs..They had the the resources back then. Simply referencing him is not good at this stage anymore.
He was probably the only one that new how to work with scanned images as well.
A case of this magnitude from their POV, whould have required that kind testing to augment any investigation, before it even started. This substantiates the claim, that they didn't want to know.
and when people worked it out for themselves..they still don't want to know.
So this at this stage when we are looking at for the hoaxers, is quite an annoyance, and highly suspect, No reflection on you personally, absent an iota of additional evidence any of it is true.





I didn't suggest this company. I called Lucas studios and spent half a day trying to get somewhere with them. The problem is that there has to be some kind of consensus. Even forensic battles in court over images seem to have to play this out. So how can you just accept the opinion of one expert you have paid a few grand to if he is plying his wares as his "opinion". There needs to be some high level expert consensus IMO and how to achieve that??

I was thinking.... Would be excellent project for an esteemed school in photography like one I have in mind.. to offer this in forensic studies of photography as a project. You would then have a lot of minds and academics working them. Hopefully consensus would come.. hopefully..

It would be an interesting offer for forensic analysis at the right upper college.. in course work... taking on these drone photos and scans. There must be some way to convince some uni...
« Last Edit: Jan 4th, 2009, 3:43pm by tommi01 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #841 on: Jan 4th, 2009, 3:30pm »

on Jan 4th, 2009, 2:36pm, neveleeleven wrote:
The only one spreading disinformation is YOU, and DRT, because you are the only ones left who are actually trying to prove this confirmed HOAX is real. YOU are the only ones trying to debunk 100% honest analysis on these drones by using "what if's", irrelivant images, and horribly wrong opinions.

Wait? Who's waiting? I completed all my analysis LAST YEAR, and came to a complete conclusion LAST YEAR. The only thing I am waiting for is the DRT website to be shut down, and the entire DRT crew to disappear from all forums out of pure humiliation.

I'm waiting for the "I told you so" moment so I can rub it in your face.

You don't know what we are doing, so it's pure speculation. Interesting to say the least you still continue to label us as "believers"....

For the DRT website to shut down, I guess you will have to wait a long long time..... Want to bet??
Héhé! Anyway my work is achieved now, I have enough material to continue the work; thanks for your help 1111!!
Much appreciated.

smiley
« Last Edit: Jan 4th, 2009, 3:38pm by elevenaugust » User IP Logged

IPACO, the new tool for photo and video analysis is on-line ! www.ipaco.fr
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #842 on: Jan 4th, 2009, 3:32pm »

Tomi, its always an opinion, from any of them, but you would have had the documentation and his analysis, and his signature certifying, but that one was ready to do it, I contacted him, not him me, thats his his field, he is a pioneer, nationally respected by peers, an experts expert.
You can not get more better than that. and only a weeks time.

« Last Edit: Jan 4th, 2009, 3:39pm by TeachersPet » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #843 on: Jan 4th, 2009, 3:54pm »

At this Point Eleven I dont want it shut down, I want my children to be able to visit your site and peep inside what has become a circus tent. With you the main clown now.
You are finished? We know you are finished..Really finished..
Whatever your purpose was..to disrupt..ended only just now when NeverEleven posting his research, show how you failed to do what he did, and you were in the same area, show us how that photo could not be right.maybe you let the marijuana growers and dogs and mean bartender scare you. But You looked quite happy and debonnaire in fact sitting having lunch , and your clothes quite clean..from the hard and sweaty search you both did.


But it did not scare Never
He found the exact spot.
which you, Lat, and Two private eyes didnt.
You are quite welcome for any little crumbs, we might leave behind for you, as we continue our own search.

Bon Apetite.
smiley

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See, Things like that up there Numbers , defacing that Mans post, is why I am in Business and you kiddies are not. Only room for so many like myself, Scientology, etc.
I know how to make friends and keep them..You lose faster than make, thats bad by trigonometry and even..arithmetic..and worse..
Try harder is no good. You don;t have evidence, and you have no character..and the story is terrible.

You guys give me a bad name. Please..Stay off my dinner plate..ok?
And do not donate for our clone bank okay? okay.
See thats a good start.
Many Blessings


« Last Edit: Jan 5th, 2009, 12:51pm by TeachersPet » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #844 on: Jan 4th, 2009, 4:10pm »

on Jan 4th, 2009, 2:33pm, tomi01uk wrote:
According to some those functions are used to evaluate the data, not manipulate or uncover but evaluate.

http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/farid/research/tampering.html


Tomi you don't even know what "functions" we are talking about. Your post is irrelevant.

There are different ways to "evaluate" an image. The most common way is to manipulate it first, THEN evaluate the image in its manipulated state. The reason for manipulation is to make certain parts of the image stand out more, which makes it easier for a computer algorithm to detect a pattern. You don't have to manipulate the image to evaluate it, but that is basically what most people/functions do, and the best method for finding patterns that the original image has.

Some functions only search for patterns, other functions manipulate the data, then search for patterns after. ALL functions are just computer assumptions. When they find a pattern, they only assume its a pattern, computers don't actually know what they are looking for.

In the end, the data you have in the image is all that you get, there is nothing more. When you do stupid "enhancement" like "edge detection" all you are doing is manipulating the image data so that it shows "edges" much more defined by changing the color of the pixels that create the edge. The computer doesn't actually know what is an edge and what isn't, it only assumes.

For instance, if I ran a "edge detection" on an image of an American Flag. Obviously it will find the outer edge of the flag itself, but then it will assume that all the stripes on the flag are edges too, since it "detects" a solid line, it thinks its an edge.

Actually to "enhance" an image is just a Hollywood movie myth. Once you take a picture of an object, the light that was captured by the camera is all you get. Nothing more, nothing less. You can't "enhance" anything because that would require that you have more light information about the image somewhere.

If you have a picture of a blurry face, you can't make the face more clear, that would require you to have more light information about the face somewhere.

Does that make sense to you?

I know that there are programs specifically designed for image forensics, but all they do is search for patterns that already exist in the image. Real image forensics can not be fully accomplished by a computer function, there has to be a human element.


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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #845 on: Jan 4th, 2009, 4:26pm »

on Jan 4th, 2009, 3:30pm, elevenaugust wrote:
You don't know what we are doing, so it's pure speculation. Interesting to say the least you still continue to label us as "believers"....


Actually, I do know exactly what you are doing, you are wasting your time, money, and life.

The DRT is publicly known as "pro-real" supporters, and you advertise that on your web page. That means you will be considered as "believers" untill you publicly state that you "believe its a hoax".


on Jan 4th, 2009, 3:30pm, elevenaugust wrote:
For the DRT website to shut down, I guess you will have to wait a long long time..... Want to bet??


Actually I can have your website and your forum database completely removed by tomorrow if I wanted. I would only have to make a 1 phone call to your web host. I will bet you my life on that.

on Jan 4th, 2009, 3:30pm, elevenaugust wrote:
Héhé! Anyway my work is achieved now, I have enough material to continue the work; thanks for your help 1111!!
Much appreciated.

smiley


Your work is achieved now, but you still have to continue the work, that makes no sense.

Good luck finding out this is a hoax, as I can't image you taking the news to well.
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #846 on: Jan 4th, 2009, 4:31pm »

on Jan 4th, 2009, 3:54pm, TeachersPet wrote:
You are quite welcome for any little crumbs, we might leave behind for you, as we continue our own search.

Bon Apetite.
smiley



I know I'm going to regret making this post.. rolleyes
but what is wrong now?? For crying out loud..
Now it's not if they are REAL that is on the table anymore its what are they..who, and why..
And that takes A LOT of good brains making use of available information. If ppl are nice and helpful, I don't want speculate, but it makes sense we will get more useful info over here to chew on..

I'm just wondering whats going to happen next that's all. I would like what happens next for us all to learn more about this drone saga..

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Mmm, yes, very curious, very interesting....


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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #847 on: Jan 4th, 2009, 4:35pm »

on Jan 4th, 2009, 2:55pm, tomi01uk wrote:
hmmm .. hope I don't get punched from either side here, but I and probably a few others were enjoying for a change both sides beginning to come to terms with each others ideas and the points being made.

I can sense a trying here.. I just hope it continues for everyones benefit of information sharing and analysing ..
Which is what everyone is gently encouraging in their own subtle ways shocked tongue



I won't punch you Tomi, you make a good point.

It seems no matter what work I do, it lacks imagination, I don’t know Trig, blaa, blaa, blaa. So why should I dance like a puppet for 11’s amusement and jump through hoops… just to be told again that I lack imagination, I am looking at it wrong… there are two houses not one, blaa, blaa, blaa.

Besides, in my opinion, trig has a better (more accurate) application in a 3D environment than on a 2D photo (IMO). But using CGI models (as it has been for Raj), the trig is already worked out (by the computer model). These finger points like this are just a distraction from the discussion… with no counter evidence on the drones given. I guess if you can’t show a problem with the evidence, try to show a problem with the person that gave the evidence. It works in politics. It is just as dirty here… we can only hope for change, but I am not seeing it.

C’est la vie.
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #848 on: Jan 4th, 2009, 4:38pm »

on Jan 4th, 2009, 4:31pm, tomi01uk wrote:
I know I'm going to regret making this post.. rolleyes
but what is wrong now?? For crying out loud..
Now it's not if they are REAL that is on the table anymore its what are they..who, and why..
And that takes A LOT of good brains making use of available information. If ppl are nice and helpful, I don't want speculate, but it makes sense we will get more useful info over here to chew on..

I'm just wondering whats going to happen next that's all. I would like what happens next for us all to learn more about this drone saga..



The problem is fundamentalist behavior. 11A is giving us a rather extreme example of dogma driven rationalization that looks more like creationism than science.

Shout some religious dogma at me, and I will smile and say something like, "You have a right to your opinion." Shout the same thing at me and tell me it's science, and I will just laugh.
« Last Edit: Jan 4th, 2009, 4:57pm by Double Nought Spy » User IP Logged


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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #849 on: Jan 4th, 2009, 4:43pm »

That Comment wasn't for you Tomi..He left with He accomplished something..as if pickin ones brain..which is unfortunate..because we are pretty transparent here,
then he says he has work to do..has new info..then some hoax no hoax..he is very confused..but still a very nasty person, though he wants to appear intellectually above the frey.
Too bad..

I think Tomi, they painted themselves into a corner.
and can't get out of it now.

The best way out of a hole is to first stop digging..

cool

Imagine if he went here with his questions
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=l_aVuS7cOIQ
« Last Edit: Jan 4th, 2009, 5:21pm by TeachersPet » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #850 on: Jan 4th, 2009, 5:30pm »

on Jan 4th, 2009, 4:10pm, neveleeleven wrote:
Does that make sense to you?

I know that there are programs specifically designed for image forensics, but all they do is search for patterns that already exist in the image. Real image forensics can not be fully accomplished by a computer function, there has to be a human element.




Yes, thanks, you have worked up a good description of things.. and I agree in principle with you or want to, that a human element is always needed to evaluate as well.. Hopefully many.. coming to the same conclusion..
that's a big ticket .. that's for sure..
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #851 on: Jan 4th, 2009, 5:33pm »

on Jan 4th, 2009, 4:26pm, neveleeleven wrote:
Actually I can have your website and your forum database completely removed by tomorrow if I wanted. I would only have to make a 1 phone call to your web host. I will bet you my life on that.



Not another spook !! shocked shocked Oh Dear !
Tell me it isn't so... tongue
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #852 on: Jan 4th, 2009, 5:48pm »

on Jan 4th, 2009, 5:33pm, tomi01uk wrote:
Not another spook !! shocked shocked Oh Dear !
Tell me it isn't so... tongue


I've never seen him at any of the meetings.
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #853 on: Jan 4th, 2009, 5:54pm »

on Jan 4th, 2009, 5:48pm, Double Nought Spy wrote:
I've never seen him at any of the meetings.


Me neither wink wink wink

Just Kidding !!! grin
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xx Re: #7 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #854 on: Jan 4th, 2009, 6:21pm »

It worked, Double, just hit alt+ F4, and the Casebook archive pops right up




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