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Double Nought Spy
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xx Re: #8 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #525 on: Mar 8th, 2009, 6:15pm »

The hoaxers have built themselves quite the reef over at DRT. They have welcomed the crazies, even encouraged them while filtering out anyone with any sense, in a tight system of symbiotic camouflage. It's pretty neat, really. Any casual look at the DRT forum by a reasonable person who has not followed the drone train wreck will tell them quickly that the site is overflowing with nutcases. Who would look for a hoaxer there? What sane person just looking for answers to a ufo question would linger there? In that way, it's a lot like the Mufon forum; a complete waste of time for anyone with good sense (and no academic interest in studying crazy people--both places are gold mines for research into mental disorders).

If you google "symbiotic camouflage," you will soon come across this page:

http://www.poliza.de/starship/sciencenew/symbiosis.htm

Fittingly, the first sentence on that page reads:

"Symbiosis basically means ‘living together’ and in the context of marine biology refers to a close relationship between two species, for example the Clown fish and the anemone."

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Denise
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xx Re: #8 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #526 on: Mar 8th, 2009, 6:29pm »

Sam That was precious!
And when Marvin mentioned the Lev thing, hairs stood up, I recall them going over and over come back Lev, yet he had tried to pawn off a something to atto, who after posting it realized it was not from who Lev said it was, Daniel Sheehan, no another Daniel instead, and parent of one of Levs friends, Brandon. If this was a disclosure attempt or disinfo attempt, I find it odd the DRT would still be calling him back, after doing something that would hurt the disclosure movement and even an innocent like Daniel Sheehan, simply because DS had mentioned seeing alien letters, but nothing about these.
I bet he has never been asked either, or we would have heard early on if these were really alien from DS.
The Drawing after analysis by Kuthulu at ATS, showed Aurabesh, as well as Isaac fonts, and event warcraft images. see page 409 of the caret thread at ATS
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http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread289007/pg409
Lev then went back to OMF tas Danielr1 o slam Atto for outing him., implying Atto was a part of it.
We and Atto have been working to resolve that mess for some time.

Symbiotic is spot on, as one would die without the other.
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and phrophetic like Dils Picture back a while ago.
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The drone can't live without the Clownfish
« Last Edit: Mar 8th, 2009, 9:21pm by Denise » User IP Logged

Katterfelto
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xx Re: #8 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #527 on: Mar 8th, 2009, 6:36pm »

on Mar 8th, 2009, 6:15pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
"Symbiosis basically means ‘living together’ and in the context of marine biology refers to a close relationship between two species, for example the Clown fish and the anemone."

That I can relate to in always wanting to start a marine aquarium. Actually a nano or pico (very small tanks). Nano drones and clown fishes certainly come to mind. grin
I'm at a total loss of words regarding any poll on DRT. rolleyes
As Gort implied, the conditions of DRT membership rule out many votes. grin rolleyes shocked kiss
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xx Re: #8 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #528 on: Mar 8th, 2009, 8:43pm »

Gort was absolutely right, the results would
be like skewered shishkabob even a child
could see thru
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Hey Ma where's the beef?!
« Last Edit: Mar 8th, 2009, 8:47pm by Denise » User IP Logged

Gort
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xx Re: #8 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #529 on: Mar 9th, 2009, 06:09am »

on Mar 8th, 2009, 6:15pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
The hoaxers have built themselves quite the reef over at DRT. They have welcomed the crazies, even encouraged them while filtering out anyone with any sense, in a tight system of symbiotic camouflage. It's pretty neat, really. Any casual look at the DRT forum by a reasonable person who has not followed the drone train wreck will tell them quickly that the site is overflowing with nutcases. Who would look for a hoaxer there? What sane person just looking for answers to a ufo question would linger there? In that way, it's a lot like the Mufon forum; a complete waste of time for anyone with good sense (and no academic interest in studying crazy people--both places are gold mines for research into mental disorders).

If you google "symbiotic camouflage," you will soon come across this page:

http://www.poliza.de/starship/sciencenew/symbiosis.htm

Fittingly, the first sentence on that page reads:

"Symbiosis basically means ‘living together’ and in the context of marine biology refers to a close relationship between two species, for example the Clown fish and the anemone."



Speaking of Mufon I don't know which board harbors more crazies Mufon or DRT.

What I can't understand is why would an organization purporting to be a leader in UFO investigation using trained field investigators with a manual based on police investigative techniques sponsor a bulletin board that caters to the lowest common denominator and I do mean lowest. Their board is such a contradiction to their stated goals. You would think that glaring hypocrisy would be embarrassing.

The only reason that I can rationalize to explain the apparent contradiction is that management assumes their reputation can take a hit at the greater prospect of increased membership coming from the board.

What they fail to realize is that once crazies dominate a board other crazies are attracted and any rational people eventually leave. That's what has happened to the board.

As these types join Mufon, from this board, they will eventually find that the organization has been diluted and their reputation has taken more than a hit. They'll become another fanatical organization despite their lofty efforts to use legitimate investigative techniques and seek the truth.

I think their management has their heads so far up their butts they can't see this coming. But their reputation will sink, and they won't even know it till it's too late.

Back to the drone hoax.
« Last Edit: Mar 9th, 2009, 06:11am by Gort » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #8 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #530 on: Mar 9th, 2009, 08:33am »

I think the commercial revenue streams have affected them, they are on TV with that ufo hunters program which is good on one hand, but then to survive there you have to get a fan base going. Thats prob whats happened. I saw how fox and even actors in their respective pictures, continually set up blogs and have multiple sites dedicated to just that, generating buzz..Here it would be no different. Especially when they are soliciting donations, which then they would, like a church not care what sinners the money came from. With the number of real craft in the sky round the clock, there will be no shortage of sightings.
I actually don't think they need a forum like that and it should be kept apart with a caveat they are not associated with it nor it represents their mission statement but offered as a convenience to the public.
Democracy does not work in some environments, like the army . Russia tried a democratic army and it did not work, obviously.
By the way ,This last 20 reports did not contain any with pix. It may be common that happens, maybe it was just the last 20 reports. I just read their case reports, to practice distinguishing repeat callers and like their real time map.
But Frankly, I don't think they read their forum themselves.
and probably don't care.
Generally, its like you say Gort, the longer they let it fester, the worse it will get, especially if they are getting their investigators from those very ranks.
This new guy has been there almost 2 years, perhaps he may do something, perhaps he may not. They certainly didn't waste time trademarking.
Perhaps they may do like Earthfiles, and c2c, and say, well we know its BS, but its a necessary evil, to allow it going and just look the other way as long as its entertaining.
A point the Paracast's Biedny made is its a fact more vetting of witnesses was done in the early days of ufology, as opposed to now , a time it is the easiest to do so effortlessly, with available info and databases at our fingertips.
Now, how is that possible? I ask myself, unless the parties did not really want to vett their guests, and then incredibly, provide altered photo graphs that preclude or hamper genuine analysis...... cool
Indeed it has become a joke already.
Lets hope That Lad cleans it up a bit at Mufon, if he really wants it to become a professional organization, and not another clownfish studios.

peace out
« Last Edit: Mar 9th, 2009, 08:47am by Denise » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #8 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #531 on: Mar 9th, 2009, 09:08am »

I know, it’s a carnival, hawkers everywhere, even Mufon
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xx Re: #8 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #532 on: Mar 9th, 2009, 09:38am »

One has to wonder why the DRT thinks it is necessary to have a poll (which by definition, all polls are guided towards something). Also, for those who are uninformed or tend to be followers, this poll is the usual bias and guidance toward an answer. Like DrDil pointed out (at the bottom of the DRT registration):

“The DRT forum was created for the discussion of the reality of drones. Other forums exist for hoax discussion.

This is a research forum… not meant for opinions.”

If one is open minded and seeking the truth in a scientific way… the above is self explanatory as being an oxymoron. (I am still trying to understand how the two house explanation for Chad is not an opinion and therefore does not violate their registration rules, in a meaningful way).

Maybe the “poll” is to see how well they have convinced their membership of a position? They have been pushing the part real/part fake for sometime now.


Quote:
Assumption n°1: The drones are real, photos and LAP too (and witnesses are genuine) et are what Isaac claimed, i-e the result of an ultra-top-secret project using reverse engineering with ET anti-gravity devices....100% real


Assumption n°2: The drones are real, the LAP too, but the photos were faked and the witnesses nonexistent; it could be a US gov. agency process and the goal could be toprogressively increase the interest for the LAP in order to find someone in the public (or even in the ufo community) to decipher it or to fully understand its function......something like 75% real/25% fake


Assumption n°3: The drones are real, the LAP too, but the photos were faked and the witnesses nonexistent; it could be a US gov. agency process and the goal could be toprogressively increase the interest for the LAP and the drone in general, for some disclosure process......something like 75% real/25% fake


Assumption n°4: The drones are real, the LAP too, but the photos were faked and the witnesses nonexistent; it could be a part of ET process, maybe with a third party involvement (some US agency or private group); the goal could be toprogressively increase the interest for the LAP and the drone in general, for some acclimation process......something like 75% real/25% fake


Assumption n°5:The drones are real, but the LAP, Isaac and his claimed are fake, while the photos are partially true, and the witnesses genuine. It could be the result of a process started by a small group (who was contacted by the witnesses) and who has faked the photos, to protect these witnesses.
The events are genuine, but all the little clues that could allow other people to identify the original witnesses were removed, and especially drones were recomposited in other landscapes, originals being too easily identifiable and damaging for the witnesses. In this idea, Isaac is only an opportunist; his story was coming after the events......50% real


Assumption n°6:The drones are real, but the LAP, Isaac and his claimed are fake, while the photos are partially true, and the witnesses genuine. It could be the result of a process started by an US agency (who was contacted by the witnesses) and who has faked the photos, to protect these witnesses.
The events are genuine, but all the little clues that could allow other people to identify the original witnesses were removed, and especially drones were recomposited in other landscapes, originals being too easily identifiable and damaging for the witnesses. In this idea, Isaac is only an opportunist; his story was coming after the events. This assumption can also be made for some parts of a disclosure project......50% real.


Assumption n°7: All is fake and is a disinfo campaign orchestrated by some US agency to discredit, when the time comes, the UFO and research community......100% fake


Assumption n°8: All is fake and is a disinfo campaign orchestrated by some US agency to help them in their global politic, i-e find a new enemy to fight with (ET), which can justify the durability of the militaro-industrial complex......100% fake


Assumption n°9: All is fake and is a designer/artist creation.....100% fake


Assumption n°10: All is fake and is a commercial/viral project for a game, movie, etc.... to come.........100% fake



The only “unbiased” assumptions are assumption 1 and 9.

The other answers are all guided (mostly to assume a US government disinformation campaign, but where is the evidence for that)? Has anyone claimed to have seen such a craft? Or is this another violation of their registration (about opinions)?

Once evidence for fake or hoax has been uncovered, what is the logic that it is 50% fake or 25% fake? (If one were to have a painting that looks to be a Rembrandt, but an expert notices one close examination that half of the work on the painting does not appear to have been painted using Rembrandt’s technique or method of painting and the other half is questionable… then is only 50% of the painting fake? Or is it all a forgery?)

In order for the US agency or disinformation idea to be true, there must be some evidence to sustain that opinion. In reality, other governments have had agendas for disinformation as well. But in either case, fake is fake. Disinformation alone does not make something real. (That whole idea is just messed up rolleyes )

My personal favorite is Assumption #2. If all of the minds and all the computers and resources available to the US government, yet they cannot figure it out, then they place the closely guarded top secret material in the public domain with the hope that an “average Joe” will figure it out. Yea, right. That’s as plausible as the “buffalo theory.”


Quote:
IMHO, there's at least some true in the drone business: we can't simply reduce the story as "100% hoax".


“This is a research forum… not meant for opinions.”

Yea, but we already knew that.

On what basis other than opinion, is there is any reality to the drones based? All confirmed and vetted evidence has proven to support drones are fake. Other than the audacity of hope, what is keeping this thing alive?


Quote:
I had voluntarily separated the physical drones from the photographies and from the whole Isaac/LAP/explanations stuff, because in this complex business, we can't and we don't have to accept or reject the story as a whole, but better try to be more moderate and foresee all the possibilities....

I can even hear the wolves crying (and to be honest, I really don't care since we are among us here and since we used to hear them... ) saying that I try to make excuses for a hoax....etc, etc....
Maybe, but we cannot accuse me neither to have envisaged all the possible hypothesis nor to have built hasty conclusions on preconceived ideas.

To summarize, I always want to give a chance to each one of the possibilities, even the most crazies.... Why?
Simply not to put a chance aside to understand something that could be essential to our UFO research: a possible acclimation or disclosure that could include the drones.


They don’t try to hide their beliefs and feelings… you have to give them that. For a “research” group that does not allow opinion, it seems postulated ideas of reality are solely opinion based.

They seem to honestly think they are fair, scientific and unbiased in their approach and dealings… but there in lies the issue for most of us.
« Last Edit: Mar 10th, 2009, 07:18am by Marvin » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #8 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #533 on: Mar 9th, 2009, 09:47am »

Try to convince a crazy person they are crazy. Denial kicks in like a California fire or fake drone.
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xx Re: #8 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #534 on: Mar 9th, 2009, 11:17am »

The poll is damage control...simple as that. The Raj deception has been a terrible blow to any chance of a drone reality. They are now reaching, grasping at straws, attempting to make some kind of an excuse that the minions will swallow hook, line and sinker.

The DRT has lost serious credibility as an unbiased investigative team. Their bias has always been clear but when the very team that proves the case is a hoax cannot admit the case is a hoax, well then, the agenda is very clear.

I'm very disappointed in the DRT. Their hopes of a drone reality has always been the driving force behind their efforts. That driving force is still apparent, in spite of all evidence to the contrary. Almost like the symptoms of an illness!

Perhaps meds are needed at the DRT. cry
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xx Re: #8 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #535 on: Mar 9th, 2009, 12:18pm »

I have always felt , as a few others, its their House. I still feel the same.

However, Its one thing to design a poll and say vote freely, but then go on to immediately
IMHO, there's at least some true in the drone business: we can't simply reduce the story as "100% hoax".
I had voluntarily separated the physical drones from the photographies and from the whole Isaac/LAP/explanations stuff, because in this complex business, we can't and we don't have to accept or reject the story as a whole, but better try to be more moderate and foresee all the possibilities....

therefore telling the person pulling the lever at the polling booth , look this is very "complex", the fotos and witnesses and Lap could be fake, and that a good reason was..x y or z.
therfore it follows that..to say 100 percent hoax is unreasonable and not the sign of a moderate person.
He 11A ,then goes on to talk about not voting with preconceived ideas..which if we look at Ovnis, and before ovnis, the jargon in the site is brimming with nothing but preconcieved ideas of the US as a bad guy or a guy weening us to disclosure. Its ok to be both I guess, but that sounds like a preconceived idea and bias and seems to curiously permeate the poll.

So it as Marv and Gort and rest we know already..foregone conclusion . IMO It is unfair if you value people and value freedom of choice, to make someone feel unmoderate, and that thinking complex in the face of obvious, is the best way to go, to feel smart, when actually the simplest and most intelligent ,unbiased choice, without preconcieved ideas based on finding of fact , is..100 percent hoax/fake .
Perhaps Then a question should we go after hoaxters yes no..
or Shall we continue research in other areas related? yes no.
Are you happy how we have tried in this case?
Could we have done a little better? yes or no.
These are Realistic and honest poll questions.

As I said, They would have done better to have poll, amongst themselves, and call for a vote of confidence. Thats more in line with what they are and what they do.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, and governments do it all the time, villages and households.
Doing this like this really defeats their own goal, for continuity as a group, that can change priority and focus. They actually binded themselves more, to the Drone and fiasco, than ever the way the questions were designed. its not the wolves, as we are called, howling its the voice of reason howling from here.

adios






« Last Edit: Mar 9th, 2009, 1:38pm by Denise » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #8 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #536 on: Mar 10th, 2009, 07:20am »

Denise,

You will be missed... the best to you and your kids. Come back someday when you can.

Marvin
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xx Re: #8 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #537 on: Mar 10th, 2009, 4:45pm »

on Mar 9th, 2009, 12:18pm, Denise wrote:
adios


Take care and best to you and all. smiley
I started reading that atto thread on OMF and it's amazing. It'll keep me busy until we meet again. The drone thing has just crossed over into the Twilight Zone and the gates appear to have opened! rolleyes
I certainly increased my knowledge base from your input here and other places. cool
Thanks
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xx Re: #8 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #538 on: Mar 10th, 2009, 8:20pm »

on Mar 9th, 2009, 12:18pm, Denise wrote:
its not the wolves, as we are called, howling its the voice of reason howling from here.

adios


Classic! That awesome line really sums it up in a poignant way. You've been great, Denise! wink
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xx Re: #8 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #539 on: Mar 29th, 2009, 6:49pm »

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