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Denise
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xx Re: #8 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #60 on: Jan 25th, 2009, 11:22am »

8 more hours left:

Tomi said :Reassurance should come from the fact that the PI's would not take at face value what they don't know for certain. From within their broad network and reach.... The truths will come out eventually.

Our reassurance comes from the fact that the PIS never found any location on their own, only by MarsAve, who is now a part of this story.
Our reassurance comes from the fact The Raj Pole was never located by the PIs themselves but only by DRT members, Nekitamo and amazingly 11A.
The PIs who live near there never scoured their own backyards, and Numbers, or any reasonable area suggested by us, as Sysco and Radi posted the same types of lamps in their neighborhoods. A glaring fact they or you neglect to mention or discuss even now. Everyone but the PIs seemed to the lamps were not in CapitolaFacts which Linda knew herself, as she is a Standford Grad, and knows the Palo Alto San Jose Area, had seen poles and lamps like that.
Thus,that vast network of of connections the PIs had were useless, except the DRT.
What kind of Reassurance is that?
You on the other hand have been there with Numbers, getting the OMRT together, then the DRT, linked yourselves as preferred contacts with Linda, shared dubious new witnesses for her benefit, and now this nauseating last ditch salvage operation.
You know very well who the moneybags is, among the Heroes , (how about Heroine) you speak of.
The statement in the past, just a group with "no one" in charge ,is a blatant untruth. It takes coordination, chiefs and indians to do that. And you are there right at the top of the list helping coordinate and obfuscate the facts, as if it were your own baby, or hubby at risk.And that last post is just one of many many instances of that. You won't disclose the money source, and if its none of you, as you are a loose group as you say, you should. And those imo, LAP- Dog PIs can restore some measure of credibility by posting the area they found the pole. Thats the Reassurance needed and wanted.
I have not in any of your 2000 plus credulity straining posts seen that come from you. What, Tomi, do you have to offer that can restore your credibility, which is as tattered as this story, now that PMs don't work anymore to your advantage?. I understand from recent disclosures, you were quite good at reassuring quite a few members there too.
Yes, we all know Tomi, and that was not very smart. sad
But try and reassure us some other way, won't you? wink

And Yes, to quote Forest Gump, "Stupid is as Stupid does"
G'day
cool








« Last Edit: Jan 25th, 2009, 12:23pm by Denise » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #8 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #61 on: Jan 25th, 2009, 11:51am »

on Jan 24th, 2009, 10:21pm, Marvin wrote:
Tomi,

I think you will agree, that I have not been afraid to disagree with members of the DRT and on the other hand, I am not afraid to lavish praise for their fine work.

But I too see a pattern of evidence and opinion from the DRT. Maybe you can help me (and others) to better understand what I see:

It seems to me that the DRT has been very defensive about the Drone reality, but the evidence released by the DRT seems to support deceit.

The interpretation of the DRT seems to always side with reality… when deceit is found, the DRT is almost apologetic and puts alternate ideas that may explanation away the deceit.

Would it not be more objective, just to lay out the data and say “it is what it is?”

Isn’t it possible that the lack of “trust” is related to bias of the issues and the apologetic rationalization of the facts rather than to just report the facts?




on Jan 25th, 2009, 05:32am, tomi01uk wrote:
Ok, that's admittedly a tough question to answer Marvin. I can't read other peoples minds....
There could be reason to not dismiss Raj has some basis of credibility Or, it could be based on subjective points of view and beliefs die hard. I don't know.

Reassurance should come from the fact that the PI's would not take at face value what they don't know for certain. From within their broad network and reach.... The truths will come out eventually.




I think you are a sweetheart Tomi, I really do. I just want you to seriously think about what you are saying or feeling about this:

Quote:
Ok, that's admittedly a tough question to answer Marvin. I can't read other peoples minds....
There could be reason to not dismiss Raj has some basis of credibility Or, it could be based on subjective points of view and beliefs die hard. I don't know.


On the one hand you can not read other people’s minds, but you then reiterate a view that I had just pointed out. You say Raj is not credible then try to find a rational reason to believe or accept some part of his story.

If you believe your own logic that a sometimes a cigar is just a cigar… maybe, just maybe the benefit of the doubt should fall on the side of Raj’s credibility. Meaning, sometimes, a lie is just a lie.

This is not meant to suggest that the DRT should stop investigating. Other than the opinions of the DRT members, the evidence uncovered by their work has completely supported the BB Drones are a hoax. So I am of the opinion that the DRT should continue its investigation. I just think (and you know I have cautioned you a number of times) the DRT needs to temper their bias or lose all credibility (and it maybe too late already).
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Denise
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xx Re: #8 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #62 on: Jan 25th, 2009, 12:24pm »

@ Marvin, you are a true gentleman, but I would not allow her nor DRT antics to prevent answers to the questions asked, particularly simple and telling ones like the last one asked by Nev, or being called out on it.
that sounded quite on point.
Please, lets not let it get buried in philosophy or reasoning perspectives, we all know the sun goes up, and it comes down, everyday. Thats all we have to work with, and I hope, All can agree it does. Why it does, is not germane to the calculations needed to get to the facts here.

Neveleleven asked:DRT just needs to confirm the Sun direction on the telephone pole, which wont compromise their investigation. It will then settle all the CGI arguments.

I can only think of ONE reason why DRT is holding this information back.... and it isn't for security.

Just do it DRT, tell us the Sun direction of the pole. It wont hurt anything.
1/24/09

Yes, what direction was it?
Thank you Neveleven.

« Last Edit: Jan 25th, 2009, 12:44pm by Denise » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #8 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #63 on: Jan 25th, 2009, 12:40pm »

on Jan 25th, 2009, 12:24pm, Denise wrote:
@ Marvin, you are a true gentleman, but I would not allow her nor DRT antics to prevent answers to the questions asked, particularly simple and telling ones like the last one asked by Nev, or being called out on it.
that sounded quite on point.
Please, lets not let it get buried.
DRT just needs to confirm the Sun direction on the telephone pole, which wont compromise their investigation. It will then settle all the CGI arguments.

I can only think of ONE reason why DRT is holding this information back.... and it isn't for security.

Just do it DRT, tell us the Sun direction of the pole. It wont hurt anything.


Yes, what direction was it?




Delectable Denise,

You always seem to get to the point… I would add to releasing the compass directions of the pole… the locations of the other pole and street light (relative to that pole). And does the camera timing (EXIF data) make sense to the distance traveled between photos (I assume they will, but still want to know).

By now, they have had plenty of time to pour over all of this data and I too see no reason to keep it secret, if the truth is what is at stake.

No one has to divulge the location inorder to do this.
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xx Re: #8 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #64 on: Jan 25th, 2009, 12:59pm »

Marvelous Marvin!
Thank you for adding that , its very Germane. I am putting in an order to replace that space modulator with the new Xena-Magnetron model,asap, It can take out an entire solar system on maximum settings.and Made in Mars only too! Allow a few months for delivery, those asteroids, meteor, space ballz, along the delivery travel paths are quite hairy to avoidcheesy
you don't have to worry about Earthlings Nasa shuttles get in the way either.
http://www.theonion.com/content/radio_news/nasa_embarks_on_first
Err, I borrowed your logo, I love baby blue.
hope you don't mind.smiley

Yes DRT, will you Please, for the sake of everything involved, in the name of goodwill and science:
1.Please,confirm the Sun direction on the telephone pole, which wont compromise the investigation. It will then settle all the CGI arguments.
2.Please,release the compass directions of the pole… the locations of the other pole and street light (relative to that pole).
3.Please,Does the camera timing (EXIF data) make sense to the distance traveled between photos
?


Thank you!
The answers well help gauge the depth he/they went to creating this particular part of the story, as it looks like more than just a mere mistake of words on his part and its what this blessed thread was created to ask and seek answers to.



« Last Edit: Jan 25th, 2009, 2:36pm by Denise » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #8 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #65 on: Jan 25th, 2009, 2:53pm »

on Jan 25th, 2009, 07:05am, Jeddyhi wrote:
So I ask those that still have hope that Raj was/is a legitimate drone witness, why ask for additional witnesses in Capitola when the sighting wasn't in Capitola?

The answer is clear I think!



Yes, it hits me like a loud thud! Good one smiley
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xx Re: #8 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #66 on: Jan 25th, 2009, 2:58pm »

on Jan 25th, 2009, 11:51am, Marvin wrote:
Other than the opinions of the DRT members, the evidence uncovered by their work has completely supported the BB Drones are a hoax. So I am of the opinion that the DRT should continue its investigation.


Does this not prove that despite subjective beliefs, they persue the truths and report it honestly (albeit sometimes from a subjective perspective..) when the time comes?

There will be so much going over of their reports that hardly anything can be missed. TEAMWORK smiley
finally wink
« Last Edit: Jan 25th, 2009, 3:19pm by tommi01 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #8 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #67 on: Jan 25th, 2009, 3:37pm »

on Jan 25th, 2009, 2:58pm, tomi01uk wrote:
Does this not prove that despite subjective beliefs, they persue the truths and report it honestly (albeit sometimes from a subjective perspective..) when the time comes?

There will be so much going over of their reports that hardly anything can be missed. TEAMWORK smiley
finally wink




I understand what you are saying Tomi, but reporting facts (that shows it is a hoax) and putting a spin on those facts (that opens up possibilities, but are in direct conflict with the facts)… is called propaganda.

If your argument is to justify propaganda, then (for many people) it becomes difficult to separate the DRT from the hoax. This is why (for many) the credibility of the DRT is called into question.
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xx Re: #8 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #68 on: Jan 25th, 2009, 4:37pm »

on Jan 25th, 2009, 3:37pm, Marvin wrote:
If your argument is to justify propaganda, then (for many people) it becomes difficult to separate the DRT from the hoax. This is why (for many) the credibility of the DRT is called into question.


Yes, well Marvin you can give it a harsh label. But, just as the label doesn't justify your frustration, it also doesn't accurately describe what the situation actually is that maybe reflected back in the reports.

Appreciate that DRT maybe trying to walk a fine line for everyone. Many viewpoints within DRT, and the grinding business of finding a long sought landmark in this case will affect the initial judgement in the situation.

Who can say that they don't ever need to reflect back, to reassess with 20/20 hindsight? For instance, at the time when the Chad sighting was discovered, not every nuance could be thought of. But the groundwork for figuring it out was laid and that continues now in the reassessment.

Where I stand in the Chad sighting has been raised in awareness not only by the ground work done by the PI's with their bulletins covering the area, but the action of Chad as a father seems unlikely to me. Why didn't the restaurant ower see the drone at least once? Or the caretaker or the neighbors? And this sight is hidden from view by the highway, but if a drone was flying there half as often as Chad said it was, well I would think some cars would sight it possibly crossing the road.

Now.. none of this could be realised without a lot of evaulation and that takes time and input from everyone. Together we can all examine every aspect of this case from it credible to incredible possibilites. It is necessary if we are going to figure it out.. because this case is pretty smooth.. we have to all keep chipping.

That is how I feel about the whole situation.
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xx Re: #8 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #69 on: Jan 25th, 2009, 4:59pm »

on Jan 25th, 2009, 4:37pm, tomi01uk wrote:
Yes, well Marvin you can give it a harsh label. But, just as the label doesn't justify your frustration, it also doesn't accurately describe what the situation actually is that maybe reflected back in the reports.

Appreciate that DRT maybe trying to walk a fine line for everyone. Many viewpoints within DRT, and the grinding business of finding a long sought landmark in this case will affect the initial judgement in the situation.

Who can say that they don't ever need to reflect back, to reassess with 20/20 hindsight? For instance, at the time when the Chad sighting was discovered, not every nuance could be thought of. But the groundwork for figuring it out was laid and that continues now in the reassessment.

Where I stand in the Chad sighting has been raised in awareness not only by the ground work done by the PI's with their bulletins covering the area, but the action of Chad as a father seems unlikely to me. Why didn't the restaurant ower see the drone at least once? Or the caretaker or the neighbors? And this sight is hidden from view by the highway, but if a drone was flying there half as often as Chad said it was, well I would think some cars would sight it possibly crossing the road.

Now.. none of this could be realised without a lot of evaulation and that takes time and input from everyone. Together we can all examine every aspect of this case from it credible to incredible possibilites. It is necessary if we are going to figure it out.. because this case is pretty smooth.. we have to all keep chipping.

That is how I feel about the whole situation.


Wrong again tomi. This case should have been closed long ago! The only reason it hasnt been is because a small group has invested large sums of time and money to keep it alive! They have spun the truth to fit their agenda and have a spokeswomen that even now....after all the lies discovered.....after finding no truth in anything about this story still insists on seeing what she wants to believe! My question is what is the DRT's agenda?? It is not finding the truth...that much is for sure!!
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Denise
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xx Re: #8 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #70 on: Jan 25th, 2009, 5:00pm »

Your feelings Tomi have been duly noted thruout the record. Its not the case thats slick or smooth, it has been endless space wasting comments such as yours to slow down inquiry. Questions slide off you and Numbers like Teflon.Thats why Jake had to slap your hands when you attempted to stop the Analysts Summary thread, probably the best thread in OMFs inventory. Do you remember that? The one Sysco/ES Started?you are doing the same here.!!
Re: ANALYSTS SUMMARY FINDINGS ON DRONE PHOTOS
« Reply #19 on Jul 29, 2008, 6:04pm »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is nothing wrong with this thread. Other then there was an attempt to high-jack it and attack any potential usefulness it may serve.

As co-admin Ufonaut has said, a new "discussion" thread for this thread will be opened.

This thread will stay. And shortly all the posts unrelated to the first post will be deleted.

Thank you




I hope the Admins here look at that thread at OM and see how you did that. Even Nemo called it a TRAP! so afraid of anyone else providing an analysis but themselves, that would reveal the truth, they know well by this time.
And so..most certainly we can't allow your responses and pleas as substitutes for answers we need, and long overdue.
If your words had an iota of sincerety then The Drt would have started chipping away here in good faith by now.
If you don't know, won't say, cant contribute anything other than what you have been doing, you should getup from the table, or we should have someone remove that non-related nonsense deleted for trying to hijack or derail this thread. Its about searching for facts, Caret and not your feelings and philosophy!!




on Jan 25th, 2009, 12:59pm, Denise wrote:
Marvelous Marvin!
Thank you for adding that , its very Germane. I am putting in an order to replace that space modulator with the new Xena-Magnetron model,asap, It can take out an entire solar system on maximum settings.and Made in Mars only too! Allow a few months for delivery, those asteroids, meteor, space ballz, along the delivery travel paths are quite hairy to avoidcheesy
you don't have to worry about Earthlings Nasa shuttles get in the way either.
http://www.theonion.com/content/radio_news/nasa_embarks_on_first
Err, I borrowed your logo, I love baby blue.
hope you don't mind.smiley

Yes DRT, will you Please, for the sake of everything involved, in the name of goodwill and science:
1.Please,confirm the Sun direction on the telephone pole, which wont compromise the investigation. It will then settle all the CGI arguments.
2.Please,release the compass directions of the pole… the locations of the other pole and street light (relative to that pole).
3.Please,Does the camera timing (EXIF data) make sense to the distance traveled between photos
?


Thank you!
The answers well help gauge the depth he/they went to creating this particular part of the story, as it looks like more than just a mere mistake of words on his part and its what this blessed thread was created to ask and seek answers to.





Let's stay on Track Boys, to heck with the noise.
« Last Edit: Jan 25th, 2009, 5:47pm by Denise » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #8 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #71 on: Jan 25th, 2009, 6:11pm »

Denise said, "Let's stay on Track Boys, to heck with the noise."

That's the best idea I have seen here today. Now where were we? No, really, I have forgotten. Nothing like a jackhammer in the basement to disrupt intelligent discussion.

Marv, I hope you don't mind me borrowing your sig, too. Thanks.

I think we were discussing that lawyer who owns Isaac's web site. It looks to me like a novel way to use the copyright laws and still keep everything hidden. If our evolving scenario is close to right, then the web site would be a precaution, sort of an insurance policy in case there were some serious challenge to the uncredited use of the Isaac material. There can be no doubt that if Warners or Friedman or whoever did not own the stuff, that what appeared in that SCC show was a blatant rip off. There have been massive infringement claims won on less of a resemblance. Having a lawyer set up a site like that is way cheaper than even fending off a weak claim. Pretty smart move, in my estimation.
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xx Re: #8 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #72 on: Jan 25th, 2009, 6:17pm »

My final word for the evening will be that I want to discus the facts of the case or brainstorm about them..

It is Sys/es and his alter ego-denise who hijack any discussion with fundemantalist ravings and rantings about his imaginary sins committed or conspired by everyone else but himself. And talk about Lev.. well, at least Lev didn't get a boob job.. rolleyes tongue

Denise.. dear.. could we talk more about the case and less about othershuh
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xx Re: #8 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #73 on: Jan 25th, 2009, 6:22pm »

on Jan 25th, 2009, 4:37pm, tomi01uk wrote:
Yes, well Marvin you can give it a harsh label. But, just as the label doesn't justify your frustration, it also doesn't accurately describe what the situation actually is that maybe reflected back in the reports.


My words are not meant to be harsh or to give a label… I have allowed your words to define what you and the DRT are doing. Anytime someone takes the facts and twists them around into something different, to fit their own purposes, by definition is propaganda.


on Jan 25th, 2009, 4:37pm, tomi01uk wrote:
Appreciate that DRT maybe trying to walk a fine line for everyone. Many viewpoints within DRT, and the grinding business of finding a long sought landmark in this case will affect the initial judgement in the situation.


I understand that the DRT believes they are walking a “fine” line… but as you have said “There could be reason to not dismiss Raj has some basis of credibility Or, it could be based on subjective points of view and beliefs die hard.” If there is a fine line being followed, it has been very controlled and it seems to be very skewed or one sided. If credibility is not the issue in any UFO case, then what is?


on Jan 25th, 2009, 4:37pm, tomi01uk wrote:
Who can say that they don't ever need to reflect back, to reassess with 20/20 hindsight? For instance, at the time when the Chad sighting was discovered, not every nuance could be thought of. But the groundwork for figuring it out was laid and that continues now in the reassessment.


I don’t recall those of us that have detected this case being a hoax ever had second thoughts… reflecting back (or hindsight), just reinforces we are and have been correct all along.


on Jan 25th, 2009, 4:37pm, tomi01uk wrote:
Where I stand in the Chad sighting has been raised in awareness not only by the ground work done by the PI's with their bulletins covering the area, but the action of Chad as a father seems unlikely to me. Why didn't the restaurant ower see the drone at least once? Or the caretaker or the neighbors? And this sight is hidden from view by the highway, but if a drone was flying there half as often as Chad said it was, well I would think some cars would sight it possibly crossing the road. .


But as I have demonstrated (and 11A has accepted), some of Chad’s photos show the Drone flying well above the level of the highway and should have been visible to all from the vantage point of the highway or restaurant. You should find it amazing that no one else saw the Drone during Chad’s sighting and photo shoot… much less all of the other reported times it was seen. But again, these facts will have more apologetic alternate suggestions put forth (and they already have been made). This is the apparent fine line the DRT must walk.

on Jan 25th, 2009, 4:37pm, tomi01uk wrote:
Now.. none of this could be realised without a lot of evaulation and that takes time and input from everyone. Together we can all examine every aspect of this case from it credible to incredible possibilites. It is necessary if we are going to figure it out.. because this case is pretty smooth.. we have to all keep chipping.

That is how I feel about the whole situation.


I am aware this has been the DRT approach. When the data points to being a hoax, the loudest detractor of it being a hoax has been the membership of the DRT. While that shell is beginning to crack, I am sure the DRT will finally arrive at the same answer as the rest of the world has already concluded almost a year ago, it is just a matter of time.
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xx Re: #8 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #74 on: Jan 25th, 2009, 6:26pm »

on Jan 25th, 2009, 6:17pm, tomi01uk wrote:
My final word for the evening will be that I want to discus the facts of the case or brainstorm about them..

It is Sys/es and his alter ego-denise who hijack any discussion with fundemantalist ravings and rantings about his imaginary sins committed or conspired by everyone else but himself. And talk about Lev.. well, at least Lev didn't get a boob job.. rolleyes tongue

Denise.. dear.. could we talk more about the case and less about othershuh


Six farking minutes!

Part of the reason I posted that about our mysterious attorney was to see what would happen next. Well, there is your answer. Yep, I think we have hit a nerve.
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