Board Logo
« #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Truth »

Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
Oct 23rd, 2017, 11:08pm


Visit the UFO Casebook Web Site

*Totally FREE 24/7 Access *Your Nickname and Avatar *Private Messages

*Join today and be a part of one of the largest UFO sites on the Net.


« Previous Topic | Next Topic »
Pages: 1 ... 69 70 71 72 73  ...  99 Notify Send Topic Print
 sticky  Author  Topic: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Truth  (Read 68594 times)
tommi01
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM


Posts: 3955
xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1050 on: Sep 9th, 2009, 01:29am »

Nomenclature - refers to either a list of names and/or terms, or to the system of principles, procedures and terms related to naming - which is the designation of a particular object or property using a word or phrase.

So... according to the last few posts... if one questions the motives or veracity of an "official story" one is "conspiracy theorist".

If one follows whatever leads are available to discover facts in a case that has more elements of interest than just its branding as a hoax, one is disparaged??

Is there anything safe to do, think or be anymore in this harsh setting except to play T Rex with generalisations?

« Last Edit: Sep 9th, 2009, 01:33am by tommi01 » User IP Logged

tommi01
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM


Posts: 3955
xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1051 on: Sep 9th, 2009, 05:23am »

For instance:

Facts in this case surely are still discoverable. 11th is giving the CARET document symbols an analysis. Could they represent letters of the English alphabet?

The number of different symbols correlates to the number of letters in the alphabet, so this could be a strong clue there is a message hidden in the CARET document.

11th is strongly chasing the hoax presumption here. All angles must be persued in this case.

My idea about decipering this, if it is possible, is to use a very strong online anagram calculator. Converting the string of symbols into the supposed letters, then inputting this into the anagram calculator could show some means of identifying either the correct letters or any words possible.

This is just my idea, I'm not spending the time doing this myself, but I hope someone gives it a try. I might in the near future, but I don't have time now.
« Last Edit: Sep 9th, 2009, 05:25am by tommi01 » User IP Logged

Jeddyhi
Senior Member
ImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 589
xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1052 on: Sep 9th, 2009, 06:04am »

The hidden message says:

It's a hoax. Thank you for wasting your time and damaging the credibility of Ufology by believing anything you see.
« Last Edit: Sep 9th, 2009, 06:09am by Jeddyhi » User IP Logged

"Nothing will ever claim ownership of the original Drone information, so copyright is not a question. Use it."- Masker33
tommi01
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM


Posts: 3955
xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1053 on: Sep 9th, 2009, 07:08am »

on Sep 9th, 2009, 06:04am, Jeddyhi wrote:
The hidden message says:

It's a hoax. Thank you for wasting your time and damaging the credibility of Ufology by believing anything you see.


Whathuh? You have the answers then about who and why?
Or are we all still here because we love each other cool wink
« Last Edit: Sep 9th, 2009, 07:09am by tommi01 » User IP Logged

Marvin
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

Mmm, yes, very curious, very interesting....


PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 1119
xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1054 on: Sep 9th, 2009, 07:11am »

on Sep 9th, 2009, 01:04am, tomi01uk wrote:
On a more serious note, if you want to hammer out the approaches of establishing facts about this case...

Once elements of this case could be traced to their original sources, like finding that pole.. facts could be ascertained.

To be true to the cause, I hope everyone is supporting all efforts now to find facts out about this case.




on Sep 9th, 2009, 05:23am, tomi01uk wrote:
For instance:

Facts in this case surely are still discoverable. 11th is giving the CARET document symbols an analysis. Could they represent letters of the English alphabet?

The number of different symbols correlates to the number of letters in the alphabet, so this could be a strong clue there is a message hidden in the CARET document.

11th is strongly chasing the hoax presumption here. All angles must be persued in this case.

My idea about decipering this, if it is possible, is to use a very strong online anagram calculator. Converting the string of symbols into the supposed letters, then inputting this into the anagram calculator could show some means of identifying either the correct letters or any words possible.

This is just my idea, I'm not spending the time doing this myself, but I hope someone gives it a try. I might in the near future, but I don't have time now.




Gee, I don’t know Tomi… when I go looking for my car key, I do not continue to look for them after I’ve found them. wink

If there is a hidden message in the LAP… it only continues to prove it is a hoax.

At what point do you stop looking (as in car keys) and declare what we have found over 2 years ago? I understand the curiosity in investigating a hoax, but honestly… I am not sure by your statements, if you know you're investigating a hoax. huh huh huh


User IP Logged

Oh Goody! My Illudiom Pu-36 Explosive Space Modulator!

User Image

"You naughty earth specimens!"
murnut
Senior Member
ImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




Homepage PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 615
xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1055 on: Sep 9th, 2009, 07:13am »

My own position has always been that, on the contrary, the best way to gain the respect of the intellectual community is to expose hoaxes, sloppy research and manipulation whenever we encounter them. ...

Jacques Vallee

http://www.jacquesvallee.net/bookdocs/WebLSTarticle.pdf
User IP Logged

You want a revolution?
You've got to make a difference on your own
You want a revolution?
Stand up, stand out and make it known
tommi01
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM


Posts: 3955
xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1056 on: Sep 9th, 2009, 07:35am »

on Sep 9th, 2009, 07:11am, Marvin wrote:
I am not sure by your statements, if you know you're investigating a hoax. huh huh huh



Neither am I. It is uncommon for sure not to be able to answer all the questions begged by the elements in this case.. kiss
User IP Logged

Double Nought Spy
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM


Posts: 1429
xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1057 on: Sep 9th, 2009, 08:31am »

It's over. Reality has prevailed. Get over it. rolleyes
User IP Logged


All sane people detest noise. --Mark Twain

elevenaugust
Senior Member
ImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

APPONO ASTOS


PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 286
xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1058 on: Sep 9th, 2009, 09:38am »

on Sep 9th, 2009, 07:13am, murnut wrote:
My own position has always been that, on the contrary, the best way to gain the respect of the intellectual community is to expose hoaxes, sloppy research and manipulation whenever we encounter them. ...

Jacques Vallee

http://www.jacquesvallee.net/bookdocs/WebLSTarticle.pdf


Here's the full quote:

TDG: "Jacques, thanks for talking with us here at The Daily Grail. Let's get straight to the new release: the original publication of Messengers of Deception in 1979 marked quite a turning point in your standing with the ufology community. Your warning that we should be more careful about embracing the phenomenon, and that its underlying qualities could well be negative and deceitful in nature rather than benevolent, was rejected by many (and still seems to cause angst to this day). I'm keen to know what acted as the catalyst for the writing of Messengers of Deception, and if you have thoughts on why so many in the UFO research community paint it as a betrayal of sorts?"

Jacques Vallee: 'The evidence for an “undercurrent” of deceit behind some alleged UFO cases only becomes visible when you spend time in the field interviewing witnesses and tracking down the evidence. It became annoying to me because it represented a waste of time and a distraction from studying genuine observations. Researchers who collect reports only through books or media accounts would not necessarily encounter this level of the phenomenon and would understandably resist the suggestion that the belief in extraterrestrial intervention is being manipulated to serve political or cultist goals."

"Even people who are fully aware of this negative aspect don’t want to bring it up into the open because they think it will call disrepute to the subject. Many erstwhile ufologists don’t want the deceptive reports exposed, just as the Catholic Church long denied instances of abuse in its ranks. Whistle-blowing is never welcome. My own position has always been that, on the contrary, the best way to gain the respect of the intellectual community is to expose hoaxes, sloppy research and manipulation whenever we encounter them."

And the right source:

Dailygrail interview about Vallee's book: "messengers of deception"

Cheers.
User IP Logged

IPACO, the new tool for photo and video analysis is on-line ! www.ipaco.fr
murnut
Senior Member
ImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




Homepage PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 615
xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1059 on: Sep 9th, 2009, 09:47am »

Thanks 11
User IP Logged

You want a revolution?
You've got to make a difference on your own
You want a revolution?
Stand up, stand out and make it known
DrDil
Global Moderator
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

Fighting against truth decay!!


Homepage PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 4224
xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1060 on: Sep 9th, 2009, 12:32pm »

on Sep 9th, 2009, 07:13am, murnut wrote:
My own position has always been that, on the contrary, the best way to gain the respect of the intellectual community is to expose hoaxes, sloppy research and manipulation whenever we encounter them. ...

Jacques Vallee

<snip>


Nice quote Mur!! smiley

I've always been a fan of Vallee, so allow me to share another quote, again it's from Vallee’s “Anatomy Of A Hoax” and Valle writes (under the heading of “Countermeasures”) that “beyond the basic need for an open mind and a rational attitude I can offer six tentative guidelines that I have found useful in my own approach to such stories.”

While they are all excellent examples I thought the following especially relevant (#6 of 6):

User Image


Cheers.
« Last Edit: Sep 9th, 2009, 12:34pm by DrDil » User IP Logged

Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies,
Tongue-tied & twisted, just an earth-bound misfit.
Double Nought Spy
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM


Posts: 1429
xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1061 on: Sep 9th, 2009, 1:01pm »

Nice one, Dr. I, too have long been a fan of Vallee. If there ever was an opportunity in the drone mess for "heroic episodes," that time is long past. Anyway, the reason for my comment is just to say that I like Vallee's work almost as much for the lucid and elegant precision of his writing as for what he says: "...if only because the objects represent spurious signals that trigger classified sensors." Most writers would take a sentence or two to convey the thought contained in that phrase. Perhaps some of our French speaking participants here can comment on whether the same facility is evident in Vallee's writings in his native language, as I supect it must be.

Edited for *ahem* precision.
« Last Edit: Sep 9th, 2009, 1:10pm by Double Nought Spy » User IP Logged


All sane people detest noise. --Mark Twain

Jeddyhi
Senior Member
ImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 589
xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1062 on: Sep 9th, 2009, 1:02pm »

on Sep 9th, 2009, 09:38am, elevenaugust wrote:
Here's the full quote:

TDG: "Jacques, thanks for talking with us here at The Daily Grail. Let's get straight to the new release: the original publication of Messengers of Deception in 1979 marked quite a turning point in your standing with the ufology community. Your warning that we should be more careful about embracing the phenomenon, and that its underlying qualities could well be negative and deceitful in nature rather than benevolent, was rejected by many (and still seems to cause angst to this day). I'm keen to know what acted as the catalyst for the writing of Messengers of Deception, and if you have thoughts on why so many in the UFO research community paint it as a betrayal of sorts?"

Jacques Vallee: 'The evidence for an “undercurrent” of deceit behind some alleged UFO cases only becomes visible when you spend time in the field interviewing witnesses and tracking down the evidence. It became annoying to me because it represented a waste of time and a distraction from studying genuine observations. Researchers who collect reports only through books or media accounts would not necessarily encounter this level of the phenomenon and would understandably resist the suggestion that the belief in extraterrestrial intervention is being manipulated to serve political or cultist goals."

"Even people who are fully aware of this negative aspect don’t want to bring it up into the open because they think it will call disrepute to the subject. Many erstwhile ufologists don’t want the deceptive reports exposed, just as the Catholic Church long denied instances of abuse in its ranks. Whistle-blowing is never welcome. My own position has always been that, on the contrary, the best way to gain the respect of the intellectual community is to expose hoaxes, sloppy research and manipulation whenever we encounter them."

And the right source:

Dailygrail interview about Vallee's book: "messengers of deception"

Cheers.


Thanks for the link 11! The very next question and answer I find to be right on the money.

Quote:
TDG: The underlying message of the book seems more relevant now than ever - in the last few years, we've had the "Serpo" case gain high traction in certain parts of the community, and now the "CARET Drones" story seems to have taken on a life of its own, despite there being little to no evidence behind either. Considering the dangers in uncritical belief that you warn of in Messengers of Deception, do you think high profile ufologists and media should be more diligent in exercising a 'duty of care' when presenting these cases so eagerly?

Jacques Vallee: If we do not establish a high standard for the data we publish, the entire field suffers. Then it becomes easy for skeptics to claim that the phenomenon only appears before “cranks and weirdoes,” as astrophysicist Stephen Hawking recently stated in England. This is exacerbated by the increased credulity of the public and its blatant exploitation by the media. It seems that people – including some highly educated folks – are ready to believe almost anything they see on the Internet or on Larry King
.


This does fuel the hardcore skeptics to denounce the whole of Ufology as frivolous and unimportant. They bring attention to the weak, fake hoaxes that people fall for, and this in turn takes the focus off strong compelling cases.

A high standard? Yes, in my opinion it is mandatory!
User IP Logged

"Nothing will ever claim ownership of the original Drone information, so copyright is not a question. Use it."- Masker33
Marvin
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

Mmm, yes, very curious, very interesting....


PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 1119
xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1063 on: Sep 9th, 2009, 3:15pm »

on Sep 9th, 2009, 1:02pm, Jeddyhi wrote:
A high standard? Yes, in my opinion it is mandatory!



I fully agree.

User IP Logged

Oh Goody! My Illudiom Pu-36 Explosive Space Modulator!

User Image

"You naughty earth specimens!"
tommi01
Gold Member
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM


Posts: 3955
xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1064 on: Sep 9th, 2009, 3:26pm »

And seriously.. what has this got to do with solving the drone case?

And before everyone starts shouting case solved..
It isn't. Many minds have decided it is a hoax, but for those interested in who and why and possibly what..
there is still a very lot to learn.
« Last Edit: Sep 9th, 2009, 3:28pm by tommi01 » User IP Logged

Pages: 1 ... 69 70 71 72 73  ...  99 Notify Send Topic Print
« Previous Topic | Next Topic »

Become a member of the UFO Casebook Forum today and join our more than 19,000 members.

Visit the UFO Casebook Web Site

Donate $6.99 for 50,000 Ad-Free Pageviews!

| |

This forum powered for FREE by Conforums ©
Sign up for your own Free Message Board today!
Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | Conforums Support | Parental Controls