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 sticky  Author  Topic: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Truth  (Read 50634 times)
murnut
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1065 on: Sep 9th, 2009, 3:59pm »

I'm more than satisfied, but if you or anyone isn't, knock yourself out.

We've reached the point , imo, where finding the hoaxer doesn't really matter anymore.

The drones are blight on ufology.

Time to move on
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1066 on: Sep 9th, 2009, 4:16pm »

on Sep 9th, 2009, 3:59pm, murnut wrote:
The drones are blight on ufology.

Time to move on


The Drones was/is a masterpiece... piece of what I'm not sure... rolleyes
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1067 on: Sep 9th, 2009, 4:40pm »

A Master-Peace for those who are not sure what this world is about. R.I.P. wink
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1068 on: Sep 9th, 2009, 4:55pm »

on Sep 9th, 2009, 4:16pm, tomi01uk wrote:
The Drones was/is a masterpiece... piece of what I'm not sure... rolleyes


A master piece hoax, tomi, thats all! I'm sure it does really impress those it fooled from day one. By praising it as a masterpiece, the onus of being a gullible victim to an internet hoax is not such a heavy burden to bear.

on Sep 9th, 2009, 3:26pm, tomi01uk wrote:
And seriously.. what has this got to do with solving the drone case?

And before everyone starts shouting case solved..
It isn't. Many minds have decided it is a hoax, but for those interested in who and why and possibly what..
there is still a very lot to learn.


This has nothing to do with solving the case, which I doubt will ever be solved short of the hoaxers coming forward and admitting it.

It has to do with ridiculous cases like the drones that cause Ufology to be viewed as a pseudoscientific field dominated by gullible researchers willing to believe whatever they see on the internet. It has to do with researchers that get caught up in a hoax, spend thousand of dollars and man hours investigating the hoax and then not accepting what becomes apparent. To save face, these researchers pour over the details, exclaim how the designs are beyond brilliant, that the LAP must hold secrets, that they are not just simple researchers fooled by a simple hoax. But sometimes, according to Occum's razor, that is exactly the case. And cases like that cause people like Vallee to have to explain how and why Ufology is screwed up.

It about way more than the drones.....the drones didn't do near as much damage as the researchers did that fell for them hook, line and sinker. And the refusal to acknowledge that is continuing the damage.

Who cares where the drones came from? They are a lie, so I easily dismiss them. I imagine those that got yanked might like to know. I couldn't really care less.
« Last Edit: Sep 9th, 2009, 5:05pm by Jeddyhi » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1069 on: Sep 10th, 2009, 01:42am »

on Sep 9th, 2009, 4:40pm, SiddReader wrote:
A Master-Peace for those who are not sure what this world is about. R.I.P. wink


Was wondering this morning before I even looked at this thread.. thinking about sidd.. wondering if I should ask... wink so I will... smiley

Sidd, with all the videos, pictures, testimonies and witnesses, plus all the documents and investigations released by various governments all over the world in these past few years... why do you still think there could not be other entities from other planets in spaceships... as a possibility?

« Last Edit: Sep 10th, 2009, 01:52am by tommi01 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1070 on: Sep 10th, 2009, 01:51am »

on Sep 9th, 2009, 4:55pm, Jeddyhi wrote:
A master piece hoax, tomi, thats all! I'm sure it does really impress those it fooled from day one. By praising it as a masterpiece, the onus of being a gullible victim to an internet hoax is not such a heavy burden to bear.




We can argue till the cows come home... but just like Oak Island and other mysteries out there, I want this one to be solved.. And I'm sure I'm not the only one out there who does.
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1071 on: Sep 10th, 2009, 05:03am »

on Sep 10th, 2009, 01:42am, tomi01uk wrote:
Sidd, with all the videos, pictures, testimonies and witnesses, plus all the documents and investigations released by various governments all over the world in these past few years... why do you still think there could not be other entities from other planets in spaceships... as a possibility?


O, I think there are a lot of other entities out there, and some even have spaceships. I just don't believe, that they only travel through the galaxies to play a little Peekaboo! with earthlings.

But this discussion would be too off topic here, wouldn't it?
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1072 on: Sep 10th, 2009, 06:21am »

on Sep 10th, 2009, 01:51am, tomi01uk wrote:
We can argue till the cows come home... but just like Oak Island and other mysteries out there, I want this one to be solved.. And I'm sure I'm not the only one out there who does.


Of course you aren't the only one..... but those that still burn a candle for the drones need to acknowledge publically that the drones were/are a hoax. And that the goal now is to find out who is behind it. By giving the case any legitimacy as being actual sightings, you harm Ufology. You can understand that, right? Thats been the point of the last few posts and why Vallee was even quoted. The argument is about damaging Ufology by endorsing hoaxes.
« Last Edit: Sep 10th, 2009, 11:41am by Jeddyhi » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1073 on: Sep 10th, 2009, 12:48pm »

on Sep 10th, 2009, 05:03am, SiddReader wrote:
O, I think there are a lot of other entities out there, and some even have spaceships. I just don't believe, that they only travel through the galaxies to play a little Peekaboo! with earthlings.

But this discussion would be too off topic here, wouldn't it?

Hi Sidd smiley,

Perhaps a little too off-topic for this particular thread but certainly not for the boards in general, however I suspect that the reception may be a little frosty due solely to the predilections of the majority of members here.

Also and just out of interest to what do you ascribe the residue of UFO events that resist any kind of logical explanation, i.e. once all relevant analysis has been conducted? I’m talking abut a very small percentage here, around 2-3% (purely MY opinion) of all reports, do you feel that they can be adequately explained using the psychosocial hypothesis?

Quote:
Many critics of the psychosocial hypothesis (PSH) seem to assume that it purports to explain all UFO reports, but this assumption is a serious error which leads to much needless (and meaningless) controversy.

The purpose of the PSH is not to attempt to show that unusual events do not really happen but, by separating fact from imagination and misinterpretation, to discover the truth about them. No complicated or controversial psychological theories need to be employed to do this; common sense is usually sufficient. It is important to realise that the PSH was developed in response to the extraterrestrial hypothesis (ETH). If the popular myth of visitations by alien spacecraft did not exist, it would have been taken for granted that UFO reports were generated by sightings of unusual aircraft or natural phenomena, and that the imperfections of human perception and memory could account for any strange details or inconsistencies in the reports. No one would seriously suggest UFO sightings as evidence of alien visitation unless there were compelling reasons for doing so.

<snip>

Finally, it should be emphasised that the PSH does not purport to explain anything by itself. It is merely employed to consider how UFO reports are so easily fitted into a ready-made mythology. Much is said about the reliabilty or otherwise of witnesses, but the reliability of ufologists is more important. A devotion to the ETH inevitably leads to wishful thinking and a tendency to twist the facts to fit it. On the other hand, the PSH must not be confused with the extreme sceptical approach, which discards awkward facts in order to produce simple and satisfactorily mundane solutions to mysterious occurrences.

I ask as it's an aspect (i.e. PSH) that I've been drawn to many times but I struggle when applying it to the small residue of cases that I allude to above.

But if not the PSH then what's your poison? wink

Cheers. grin
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1074 on: Sep 10th, 2009, 4:22pm »

My poison... mhm not really mine and even no poison.

- There is not one single case, where alien visitors were proven as fact.
- The protagonists in UFOlogy are clowns and/or even hoaxers themselves: Erich von Däniken, Johannes von Buttlar, Michael Hesemann - for my country - but also Linda Moulton Howe, Whitley Strieber, Don Schmitt, and so on and so on.
- People in the forums, who's names - not even usernames - I don't want to mention

I could go on and on. Having those people report "the facts" makes everything very doubtful. E.g. what did Tomy mean with all those witnesses and documents and videos? I never saw anything conclusive.

Another thing are those funmakers, who jump into every discussion now and then. Why does UFOlogy attract so many hoaxers? Because it is very funny to see, how people support the hoax against human sense and even feel attacked by skeptics and attack them.

UFOlogy needs those hoaxers. Many long for them. Because without hoaxers, they would have no stories. Just some unidentified flying objects. (The few percent you mentioned.)

But the main "poison" as you say is still the first sentence:
There is not one single case, where alien visitors were proven as fact

Having said that I can close with the following observation: Isaac is UFOlogy and UFOlogy is Isaac.
« Last Edit: Sep 10th, 2009, 4:23pm by SiddReader » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1075 on: Sep 10th, 2009, 4:40pm »

Hey Doc, I think these are appropriate closing posts for this topic. Finally, the death rattle to the 10,000 plus posts on a well run joax played on UCB,OM,LMH etc.,etc. Like an algebraic equation, the sides must balance. Since one side ended up zero, nothing in the bag, then the other side is the same, no answers on the fundamental question, so zero. Photograghs, blury or sharp are to limited in information. It's like trying to figure out what hamburger helper tastes like from the picture on the box. Testimony and documents are better, but again, you can tell me how crappy the hamburger helper was, but I still can't taste it. The short cut to a big helping would be full-on Disclosure from those in the Know. I've already posted on that thread, so I'll forego that rant. Lastly, think we could replace this topic at the top of the list with something a little more relevant? With that weight gone,we might be able to stand a little more upright, metaphorically speaking. Just a thought, be seeing ya....
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1076 on: Sep 10th, 2009, 5:53pm »

Hehe! No ghost seen, no ghost not seen. Makes zero:zero!

I guess, your are right. After two years I am still not being eaten by Lev's aliens. Human sense, science and own perception make me think, I am not a hamburger. But they still could be out there, waiting, because the baker was late today...

Everything seen, no proof. Who can tell, if the aliens don't spread photoshopped pictures and stupid reports to hide themselves?

Nothing there does not mean that nothing could be there. And all those witnesses were flashed one day. cool
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1077 on: Sep 10th, 2009, 6:12pm »

on Sep 10th, 2009, 4:22pm, SiddReader wrote:
My poison... mhm not really mine and even no poison.

- There is not one single case, where alien visitors were proven as fact.
- The protagonists in UFOlogy are clowns and/or even hoaxers themselves: Erich von Däniken, Johannes von Buttlar, Michael Hesemann - for my country - but also Linda Moulton Howe, Whitley Strieber, Don Schmitt, and so on and so on.
- People in the forums, who's names - not even usernames - I don't want to mention

I could go on and on. Having those people report "the facts" makes everything very doubtful. E.g. what did Tomy mean with all those witnesses and documents and videos? I never saw anything conclusive.

Another thing are those funmakers, who jump into every discussion now and then. Why does UFOlogy attract so many hoaxers? Because it is very funny to see, how people support the hoax against human sense and even feel attacked by skeptics and attack them.

UFOlogy needs those hoaxers. Many long for them. Because without hoaxers, they would have no stories. Just some unidentified flying objects. (The few percent you mentioned.)

But the main "poison" as you say is still the first sentence:
There is not one single case, where alien visitors were proven as fact

Having said that I can close with the following observation: Isaac is UFOlogy and UFOlogy is Isaac.

By ‘poison’ I really meant (as I think you know) your core belief, which after reading your post can best be described as charlatans with agendas?

As I hinted at, the remaining 2-3% is the crux of my interest but as for evidence, fact etc. I think you’re becoming sidetracked with the whole ‘alien’ thing Sidd, UFO does NOT necessarily = alien. I have no desire to get into this here and now but I –for the most part- agree with you in that of everyone associated with UFOlogy it is MUCH harder to name persons whom I consider respected UFOlogists than it is to name those who are out to prey on the naivety of believers, or as you aptly called them, “Clowns”.

If you’re after, “alien visitors were proven as fact” then I fear you’re bound for disappointment, if –like me- you’re fascinated by human behaviour, perception and cognitive processes then welcome to the party!! (Clowns allowed grin).

But neither have anything to do with the residue of cases (2-3%) that still defy rational explanation within our current understanding and which interests me more than any human behaviour and/or its relation to the broader UFO phenomenon and the inevitable collective/individual(s) interpretation of it.

Cheers smiley.
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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1078 on: Sep 10th, 2009, 7:04pm »

When I named it "unidentified flying object", I hoped, this would clarify the difference. I know, that there are "u.f.o."s and they have nothing to do with aliens on first sight.

Asking about those few percentages, which cannot be explained... Every scientific discipline will have such unexplained things. I would say a probability of error up to 5% is usual. So you are within the frame with your estimation.

What does that mean now? It just means, we cannot explain some sightings. We will find the same in biology and physics and probably even in mathematics. People are still trying to find the most correct description of the number pi. Why not?

We are still on our way. And some wish, that aliens appear, to carry us further, like littele children who ask daddy to carry them on their shoulders. Daddy won't, since most of them are nearly grandparents themselves.

Well, I did not want to start this discussion here, but since you are the mod, you reign. So I ask you: What about those few sightings, which could not be explained yet, makes you think they could be more than those PSH-stories?

« Last Edit: Sep 10th, 2009, 7:06pm by SiddReader » User IP Logged

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xx Re: #9 The Drone Enigma A Global Search For The Tr
« Reply #1079 on: Sep 10th, 2009, 8:24pm »

I'm afraid Carrion has gone articulately postal.. rolleyes
http://followthemagicthread.blogspot.com/2009_09_01_archive.html
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